squirrel83
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Why No JFK-HNL Route?

Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:50 pm

I know there is a CO route EWR-HNL but why no HNL-JFK?
Why hasn't DL, AA, or even NW tried doing a JFK-HNL route? Even with JL at JFK & HNL why not a JFK-HNL-NRT route?
A346, 7E7, 747, 777, Sonic Cruiser
 
dutchjet
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RE: Why No JFK-HNL Route?

Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:58 pm

Lack of demand, below-average yeilds and connections available at LAX, SFO and major hubs result in no nonstop sevice between JFK and HNL......CO makes EWR-HNL work because of the power of the EWR hub and that flight seems to cover the demand from the NYC area to HNL as far as nonstop service.

Its a long way from NYC to Hawaii, destinations in the carib, latin america, the bahamas and florida are much closer and cost less; although Hawaii is beautiful, 10+ is a long way to fly for a beach holiday.

UA at one time flew JFK-HNL nonstop ( I did it back in the 1970s) with DC8-62s......I believe that TWA also tried the route for a short period (they certainly had onestop 747 service on the JFK-STL-HNL route for a long time).
 
COSPN
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RE: Why No JFK-HNL Route?

Thu Oct 20, 2005 1:29 pm

JFK-HNL-NRT would be way out of the way EWR-NRT is less the 13 Hours
EWR-HNL is 10... NYC had no HNL service for along time before CO stated EWR-HNL ATA tried JFK-HNL for awhile but cut it after the L1011's were going away...
 
uadc8contrail
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RE: Why No JFK-HNL Route?

Thu Oct 20, 2005 1:33 pm

didnt CO at one point back before the people exp takover have a jfk-hnl n/s on the 10-30???????
bus driver.......move that bus:)
 
B6FA4ever
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RE: Why No JFK-HNL Route?

Thu Oct 20, 2005 2:51 pm

i think i heard/read someone say that Hawaiian Air was possibly gonna start HNL-JFK but 9/11 came and those plans were shot. i wonder if that is still a market they would attempt if they start receiving more B767's. would be great to see Pualani in JFK while i'm on my sit-times there!  Smile especially if they were to park her over at Term 7 (wishful thinking tho) they'd probably end up over w/ DL at Term 3.

~B6FA4ever
 
ikramerica
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RE: Why No JFK-HNL Route?

Thu Oct 20, 2005 3:45 pm

When HA gets a few more planes, JFK-HNL will be "on the list." Give them a year.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
ha763
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RE: Why No JFK-HNL Route?

Thu Oct 20, 2005 4:26 pm

Quoting Uadc8contrail (Reply 3):
didnt CO at one point back before the people exp takover have a jfk-hnl n/s on the 10-30???????

Yes they did. They stopped for a short time and then restarted NYC service from EWR.

Quoting B6FA4ever (Reply 4):
i think i heard/read someone say that Hawaiian Air was possibly gonna start HNL-JFK but 9/11 came and those plans were shot.

Back in late 2001, when I was still working at HA and after years of rumors, I was told that JFK was supposed be have been announced on Sept. 16. But then the terrorist attacks happened and those plans were dropped. I also remember being told that JAL would handle the pax service, which would have had HA in Terminal 1.
 
toptravel
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RE: Why No JFK-HNL Route?

Thu Oct 20, 2005 7:59 pm

PA used to do it with a 742, TW from STL and UA years ago. Guess CO was not seeing the return they needed.
 
AF022
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RE: Why No JFK-HNL Route?

Thu Oct 20, 2005 8:28 pm

This is an ideal route for HA. Fits perfectly into their schedule.
 
phoenixX2
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RE: Why No JFK-HNL Route?

Thu Oct 20, 2005 9:20 pm

Hey Ha763 did not HA eye the BWI market first on the East Coast? Just waiting for two more 763s. Maybe you heard something out there.

Rdgs
 
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STT757
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RE: Why No JFK-HNL Route?

Fri Oct 21, 2005 12:10 am

CO used to fly nonstop JFK-HNL-SYD with a DC-10-30, the flight operated out of the Eastern Terminal. CO has the only nonstop because of their strong EWR hub and the huge Onepass customer base in the NYC Metro area.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
johnclipper
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RE: Why No JFK-HNL Route?

Fri Oct 21, 2005 2:44 am

The CO route from JFK was before the real growth at EWR. CO and EA fed the flight from JFK. PA was always 1-stop from JFK to HNL via LAX or SFO (B747). UA was 1-stop from EWR to HNL via ORD (B747)
"Flown every aircraft since the Wright Flyer" (guys, if you take this literally, then you need to get a life...)
 
hnl-jack
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RE: Why No JFK-HNL Route?

Fri Oct 21, 2005 3:17 am

For a couple of years I had to fly between NYC and HNL every other week. When I started Pan American had a daily non-stop 742 out of JFK. With the demise of Pan Am, TWA initiated service with a 742. When they withdrew, Continental initiated service with a DC-10-30 out of the Eastern terminal at JFK to SYD via HNL. After several months it moved to EWR and was withdrawn from service after about six months.

What I found interesting was that I don't recall one flight that wasn't at least 90%. And, if yield was a problem, the airfares I was charged wouldn't support that claim.

New York is only second to LAX in terms of originating traffic to Hawaii. Currently 14% of all N. American visitors and less than 4% of the seats.
 
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airzim
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RE: Why No JFK-HNL Route?

Fri Oct 21, 2005 3:20 am

Quoting JohnClipper (Reply 11):
The CO route from JFK was before the real growth at EWR. CO and EA fed the flight from JFK.

Also because the runways at EWR were too short for the DC-10-30's. CO tried to use a 747-200 out of EWR but there to, they often had to tech stop in SFO or LAX. So they gave up and went with a scheduled stop in SFO. When the runways were finally lengthened it went to a full time non-stop with with the DC-10-30's and the EWR-SFO-HNL was dropped. AFIAK, it also coincided with the SFO-HNL drop as well
 
MarshalN
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RE: Why No JFK-HNL Route?

Fri Oct 21, 2005 3:21 am

Quoting HNL-Jack" class=quote target=_blank>HNL-Jack (Reply 12):
For a couple of years I had to fly between NYC and HNL every other week. When I started Pan American had a daily non-stop 742 out of JFK. With the demise of Pan Am, TWA initiated service with a 742. When they withdrew, Continental initiated service with a DC-10-30 out of the Eastern terminal at JFK to SYD via HNL. After several months it moved to EWR and was withdrawn from service after about six months.

What I found interesting was that I don't recall one flight that wasn't at least 90%. And, if yield was a problem, the airfares I was charged wouldn't support that claim.

I'd imagine yields is a problem now, whereas when you were flying (judging from the existence of Pan Am and TWA... it's a while ago) it wasn't so bad?
 
ltbewr
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RE: Why No JFK-HNL Route?

Fri Oct 21, 2005 4:11 am

If I am correct, doesn't CO operate a daily EWR-HNL-EWR with a 777? From previous discussions here, doesn't it usually have good loads?
Problems for such a JFK/EWR-HNL route is that many of the flights may not have the numbers of premium fare pax as would via LAX, ORD or some other hub and the high percentage of 'package' tourists. I am quite sure the EWR-HNL flight hardly has any FF seats available (especially 1st/biz on FF basis). You also have one stop service by UA, AA and others whom may offer better pricing. Many will be willing to save a few bucks by accepting a one-stop direct or one-change of equipment flight.
 
timz
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RE: Why No JFK-HNL Route?

Fri Oct 21, 2005 4:43 am

Quoting JohnClipper (Reply 11):
PA was always 1-stop from JFK to HNL via LAX or SFO (B747).

Except around 1987 when they had a JFK-HNL nonstop two or three days a week.
 
stirling
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RE: Why No JFK-HNL Route?

Fri Oct 21, 2005 4:46 am

Quoting JohnClipper (Reply 11):
UA was 1-stop from EWR to HNL via ORD (B747)

United DID fly JFK-HNL Nonstop.
Early 1970's before the OPEC oil embargo crisis.
After that, it never appeared again.
The aircraft used was the DC-8-60 series streeeeeeeeeeeeeeetch.
Delete this User
 
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STT757
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RE: Why No JFK-HNL Route?

Fri Oct 21, 2005 5:49 am

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 15):
If I am correct, doesn't CO operate a daily EWR-HNL-EWR with a 777?

EWR-HNL is a daily 767-400, prior to that it was a Daily DC-10-30.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
MAH4546
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RE: Why No JFK-HNL Route?

Fri Oct 21, 2005 5:56 am

Quoting Squirrel83 (Thread starter):
Even with JL at JFK & HNL why not a JFK-HNL-NRT route?

A foreign carrier cannot carry domestic traffic.
a.
 
HAVIK747
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RE: Why No JFK-HNL Route?

Fri Oct 21, 2005 7:05 am

CO also feeds it HNL-GUM service from EWR-HNL
 
aa87
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RE: Why No JFK-HNL Route?

Fri Oct 21, 2005 8:41 am

True that many NYers from city and even Long Island will go to EWR for the CO non-stop, but as we all know markets can be created. TWA was low profile with their non-stop, and you need daily to change mindset. I would think if DL, AA or HA started non-stop and a little marketing, they'd do well enough to justify it. On the other hand, now there are so many mainland non-stops to the other islands, no longer much need to go into or out of HNL if that's not where you're headed.

And I agree, seeing HA's awesome colors would be welcome on a gray JFK winter day
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: Why No JFK-HNL Route?

Fri Oct 21, 2005 9:03 am

I have a feeling we will see a B6 JFK-OAK-HNL thru flight before we see AA or DL jump in the market.

PJ
 
moose1226
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RE: Why No JFK-HNL Route?

Fri Oct 21, 2005 11:22 am

Quoting JFKLGANYC (Reply 22):
I have a feeling we will see a B6 JFK-OAK-HNL thru flight before we see AA or DL jump in the market.

Can't be done. Even if the the 320 has the range (which I'm not sure about), they aren't ETOPS certified.
 
wjcandee
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RE: Why No JFK-HNL Route?

Fri Oct 21, 2005 11:51 am

Quoting COSPN (Reply 2):
ATA tried JFK-HNL for awhile but cut it after the L1011's were going away...

The ATA flight was actually a Pleasant Hawaiian Holidays charter (on which ATA could sell some of the extra seats). Very high service level, and yet PHH cancelled it pretty quickly due to insufficient demand. They also used the same plane on other days of the week to ORD. Neither service survived. It didn't have to do with the L1011s "going away", as the L1011 used on that flight was one of their then-recently-acquired -500 series Tristars, four of which are still in use (on military charters).
 
N62NA
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RE: Why No JFK-HNL Route?

Fri Oct 21, 2005 12:03 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 5):
When HA gets a few more planes, JFK-HNL will be "on the list." Give them a year.

While JFK would seem most likely to "balance out" the opportunity between the 2 airports, it would be fantastic to see HA at EWR!
 
ha763
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RE: Why No JFK-HNL Route?

Fri Oct 21, 2005 1:41 pm

Quoting PhoenixX2 (Reply 9):
Hey Ha763 did not HA eye the BWI market first on the East Coast?

I know that HA has looked at many cities over the years. I wouldn't be surprised if BWI was looked at, but I think if HA were to fly to that area, IAD would more likely be the airport.

Quoting Moose1226 (Reply 23):
Quoting JFKLGANYC (Reply 22):
I have a feeling we will see a B6 JFK-OAK-HNL thru flight before we see AA or DL jump in the market.

Can't be done. Even if the the 320 has the range (which I'm not sure about), they aren't ETOPS certified.

Not only that, but JetBlue will also need to get flag carrier status in order to fly to Hawaii. Once this happens, then we can all speculate about Hawaii service.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Why No JFK-HNL Route?

Fri Oct 21, 2005 1:51 pm

Quoting Moose1226 (Reply 23):

Can't be done. Even if the the 320 has the range (which I'm not sure about), they aren't ETOPS certified.

A320s have the range. OAK-HNL is almost 300 miles shorter than OAK-BOS. And jetBlue can get them ETOPs certified if they wish. They are all overwater equipped.

Quoting Ha763 (Reply 26):
Not only that, but JetBlue will also need to get flag carrier status in order to fly to Hawaii. Once this happens, then we can all speculate about Hawaii service.

You say it as if it is difficult to get. It's not.

[Edited 2005-10-21 06:52:33]
a.
 
B6FA4ever
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RE: Why No JFK-HNL Route?

Fri Oct 21, 2005 5:37 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 27):
Quoting Ha763 (Reply 26):
Not only that, but JetBlue will also need to get flag carrier status in order to fly to Hawaii. Once this happens, then we can all speculate about Hawaii service.

You say it as if it is difficult to get. It's not.

ok...can someone explain to me the meaning of "flag carrier status"? thanx

~B6FA4ever
 
Tan Flyr
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RE: Why No JFK-HNL Route?

Fri Oct 21, 2005 10:47 pm

Quoting Stirling (Reply 17):
United DID fly JFK-HNL Nonstop.
Early 1970's before the OPEC oil embargo crisis.
After that, it never appeared again.
The aircraft used was the DC-8-60 series streeeeeeeeeeeeeeetch

exactly..UA used a DC-8-62 and I believe it was dropped in late 1973 during the Arab oil embargo.
 
N62NA
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RE: Why No JFK-HNL Route?

Fri Oct 21, 2005 11:01 pm

Quoting TAN FLYR (Reply 29):
The aircraft used was the DC-8-60 series streeeeeeeeeeeeeeetch



Quoting TAN FLYR (Reply 29):
UA used a DC-8-62

Well, the -62 was a bit of a stretch, but not a streeeeeeeeeeeeeeetch (like the -61 or -63).  Smile
 
bomber996
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RE: Why No JFK-HNL Route?

Sat Oct 22, 2005 12:25 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 27):
A320s have the range. OAK-HNL is almost 300 miles shorter than OAK-BOS. And jetBlue can get them ETOPs certified if they wish. They are all overwater equipped.

I don't know. I think that in order to do a flight to Hawaii you need to have a lot more fuel then if the flight was over land. This is simply because there really are no alternatives between the US mainland and Hawaii. I could be very wrong, but I think I remember reading something about that here.

Peace  box 
Two biggest lies in aviation... "I'm from the FAA and I'm here to help you." & "Traffic in sight."
 
F27XXX
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RE: Why No JFK-HNL Route?

Sat Oct 22, 2005 6:05 am

Quoting JFKLGANYC (Reply 22):
I have a feeling we will see a B6 JFK-OAK-HNL thru flight before we see AA or DL jump in the market

Don't get me wrong, B6 is a great airline ... but OMFG an A320 from JFK to OAK to HNL !?! 6+hrs then another 5 !?! On an A320? No way.

Tony  wave 
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