Concorde001
Topic Author
Posts: 1186
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2005 12:53 am

BA And QF Will Share T5 At LHR!

Fri Oct 21, 2005 7:52 pm

It was originally thought that QF would not be able to share T5 with BA due to capacity constraints - however according to 'Business Traveller' (Oct'05 ed.) magazine, BA and QF have told them that they will share T5!

I have tried to find the article on their website, but as it is a magazine article, not an online one, they have only the headline 'BA and Qantas to share T5' in their archives - no article!

Here is the link for the headline!
http://www.businesstraveller.com/def...SM=ALL&DatePeriod=0&OB=D&PageMove=

Just had a look on PPRUNE and someone has also posted this same information. Here is what the member wrote:
"Well Just as I thought despite what others have suggested on this thread, in this months edition of Business Traveller Magazine, Qantas and BA have confirmed that they will operate their joint services out of T5, it also suggests BUT NOT CONFIRM that all the other Oneworld airlines will go to a specially refitted T3 so that they are closer to T5 for transfers! BA will have a presence in T3 to assist transfers to its codeshared IB,EI,AY flights!"

[Edited 2005-10-21 12:54:21]

[Edited 2005-10-21 12:59:07]
 
NetworkDoc
Posts: 76
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2005 6:28 am

RE: BA And QF Will Share T5 At LHR!

Fri Oct 21, 2005 8:02 pm

Wow, that's a surprise indeed if that's true! I can confirm the PPRUNE quote that BA could not have been clearer beforehand that partners won't join in T5 and would be assembled in T3 so that a connex shuttle could be run between T5 and T3 and the partner airlines. I asked that question myself on a recent course for T5 and was definitely told 'no way' for ANY alliance members by a big wig on the T5 project. ..........
Flown: AB/BA/BD/BI/CX/DI/DL/KE/KL/LH/LT/LX/MH/NW/OZ/PR/QF/SN/SQ/TW/UA/VS/5J.
 
DavidT
Posts: 461
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 1:37 am

RE: BA And QF Will Share T5 At LHR!

Fri Oct 21, 2005 8:37 pm

I saw this last week in Bus. Traveller - but I forgot to post >_< Thanks for posting.

The full article is

Heathrow's Terminal 5 promises to provide a fantastic impresion for visitors to Britain when it opens on March 30, 2008.

London's newest terminal will offer state of the art passenger handling along with a six platform train station with direct city centre rail links by Heathrow Express and the existing piccadilly line.

The new terminal occupies an area the size of london's hyde park and is designed to handle 30 million pax. It is costing £4.2billion and is already two thirds complete. T5 is an airy glass structure; BAA executives toured Asia's best airports in search of inmpiration for thei nterior.

In common with practices elsewhere, BA will be T5's main tenant. THe terminal will be large enough for BA, for the first time ever, to operate all its flights under one roof.

So much is already known. But what about BA's oneworld partners? It had been thought they would join BA in T5, but Business Traveller can reveal that is not hte case. One lucky carrier will make hte move, however. Qantas, one of the "main" oneworld carriers, will join BA in T5. Meanwhile, the rest of hte members will locate to T3, closest to T5 and so we will effectively share the airport's western apron.


(sorry for typos)

[Edited 2005-10-21 13:46:24]
 
vsflyer747400
Posts: 144
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 6:34 pm

RE: BA And QF Will Share T5 At LHR!

Fri Oct 21, 2005 8:38 pm

Quoting NetworkDoc (Reply 1):
I asked that question myself on a recent course for T5 and was definitely told 'no way' for ANY alliance members by a big wig on the T5 project. ..........

I wonder how the other OneWorld member airlines will react to that remark. It does make for a rather disjointed set up. I would imagine that minimum connection times would have to be on a par with a T1-T4 connection then. I tried searching to see if there was a thread on how the airlines might be distributed once T5 opens but couldnt see one.

It would make sense (to me at least) if this happened.....

T5 - BA (all ops) and the other OneWorld carriers
T4 - SkyTeam
T3 - Other long haul carriers
T2 - Other European carriers
T1 - Star Alliance

I know it probably wont happen this way, but if the OW partners go to T3 how do you see the current non alliance T3 carriers being distributed?
Being on: (in no order) VS BA AA EK CX MH DL EI BD KL HV NW RC LH AF DA TG QF US FR LX AC SK AZ PG SQ UA PA
 
kiwiandrew

RE: BA And QF Will Share T5 At LHR!

Fri Oct 21, 2005 8:42 pm

It doesn't surprise me too much - QF have probably the closest relationship with BA of any of the oneworld partners - even though BA have sold their stake in QF - and it is not a huge number of flights that BA would need to accommodate in comparison with any of their other OW partners .
 
boysteve
Posts: 885
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2004 7:02 am

RE: BA And QF Will Share T5 At LHR!

Fri Oct 21, 2005 8:43 pm

Quoting DavidT (Reply 2):
London's newest terminal will offer state of hte art passenger handling along with a sex platform

Excellent, this will make using T5 very satisfying
 
DavidT
Posts: 461
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 1:37 am

RE: BA And QF Will Share T5 At LHR!

Fri Oct 21, 2005 8:45 pm

Oh dear...

should have read SIX platform. This isn't AMSBig grin
 
Concorde001
Topic Author
Posts: 1186
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2005 12:53 am

RE: BA And QF Will Share T5 At LHR!

Fri Oct 21, 2005 8:46 pm

Quoting VSFLYER747400 (Reply 3):
I know it probably wont happen this way, but if the OW partners go to T3 how do you see the current non alliance T3 carriers being distributed?

They probably won't be!
SQ,NH,SK,AC,NZ,TG,RG.UA, are all STAR members and are currently in T3! Once they move into T1, there will be plenty of room left in T3!
 
richardw
Posts: 3131
Joined: Tue May 08, 2001 3:17 am

RE: BA And QF Will Share T5 At LHR!

Fri Oct 21, 2005 8:55 pm

OW routes that could be at T5 to strengthen the alliance?

AA JFK-LHR

IB MAD-LHR

AY HEL-LHR

CX HKG-LHR

EI DUB-LHR
 
Concorde001
Topic Author
Posts: 1186
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2005 12:53 am

RE: BA And QF Will Share T5 At LHR!

Fri Oct 21, 2005 9:03 pm

Quoting Richardw (Reply 8):

AA JFK-LHR

IB MAD-LHR

AY HEL-LHR

CX HKG-LHR

EI DUB-LHR

AA JFK-LHR - no point as the services are not code shared (god only knows when EU and US will agree on open skies)
CX HKG-LHR - no point as the services are not code shared
AY HEL-LHR and IB MAD-LHR -not a bad idea, especially for all IB flights to be moved into T5 as they have a similar agreement to the one BA have with QF- BUT the problem with T5 is space! BA will JUST manage with their own flights and QF!
 
NetworkDoc
Posts: 76
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2005 6:28 am

RE: BA And QF Will Share T5 At LHR!

Fri Oct 21, 2005 9:16 pm

Quoting VSFLYER747400 (Reply 3):
It would make sense (to me at least) if this happened.....

T5 - BA (all ops) and the other OneWorld carriers
T4 - SkyTeam
T3 - Other long haul carriers
T2 - Other European carriers
T1 - Star Alliance

That would be great for the globalisation of the industry but I wonder if BA would be keen to see Sky and Star get their own terminals... That would be a lot of competition at its own doorstep, in particular as rival alliances would protect their home bases from rival constellation groups and probably not grant OW a special terminal at their bases.

Quoting Concorde001 (Reply 7):
Quoting VSFLYER747400 (Reply 3):
I know it probably wont happen this way, but if the OW partners go to T3 how do you see the current non alliance T3 carriers being distributed?

They probably won't be!
SQ,NH,SK,AC,NZ,TG,RG.UA, are all STAR members and are currently in T3! Once they move into T1, there will be plenty of room left in T3!

That's what I heard. Apparently T3 is going to be OW only with re-distribution of the other carriers....... Wonder what the existing T3 carriers to be re-homed (if true) would demand of the BAA in return... Maybe dedicated rival alliance terminals are not as utopic, as mainly Star carriers are affected (plus smaller ones without too much bargaining power).

If Star and Sky got their own terminals (which would make sense for the industry as such and pax, assuming that fares won't be upwardly affected through market power), BA might have to curb excitement about T5 which might just open a super-luctrative door for competitors.

Gonna be exciting!  hyper 
Flown: AB/BA/BD/BI/CX/DI/DL/KE/KL/LH/LT/LX/MH/NW/OZ/PR/QF/SN/SQ/TW/UA/VS/5J.
 
commavia
Posts: 9643
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RE: BA And QF Will Share T5 At LHR!

Fri Oct 21, 2005 9:52 pm

I wish AA would be able to get access to T5.
 
richardw
Posts: 3131
Joined: Tue May 08, 2001 3:17 am

RE: BA And QF Will Share T5 At LHR!

Fri Oct 21, 2005 9:58 pm

Quoting Concorde001 (Reply 9):
AA JFK-LHR - no point as the services are not code shared (god only knows when EU and US will agree on open skies)
CX HKG-LHR - no point as the services are not code shared

If BA put some AA and CX codes on its European routes then may be a bit of feed traffic.
 
Concorde001
Topic Author
Posts: 1186
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2005 12:53 am

RE: BA And QF Will Share T5 At LHR!

Fri Oct 21, 2005 10:06 pm

Quoting Richardw (Reply 12):
f BA put some AA and CX codes on its European routes then may be a bit of feed traffic.

They do codeshare on European and domestic services, but not on services between two cities they both serve, e.g. LHR-HKG
 
Beany
Posts: 170
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2005 12:18 am

RE: BA And QF Will Share T5 At LHR!

Fri Oct 21, 2005 10:10 pm

Quoting Concorde001 (Thread starter):
That's what I heard. Apparently T3 is going to be OW only with re-distribution of the other carriers.......

That is incorrect as Virgin will be staying in T3, see here for details:

http://www.virgin-atlantic.com/en/gb...ce/pressreleases/news/pr300305.jsp
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: BA And QF Will Share T5 At LHR!

Fri Oct 21, 2005 10:22 pm

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 4):
It doesn't surprise me too much - QF have probably the closest relationship with BA of any of the oneworld partners - even though BA have sold their stake in QF - and it is not a huge number of flights that BA would need to accommodate in comparison with any of their other OW partners .

actually, from what I've been reading, BA's Walsh and AA's Arpey have been in very close contacts with each other..almost to the point of some kind of "merge"..no I'm not saying they are going to merge, but thats how close their business contact has been.....suffice to say, its more than BA-QF's..

Quoting Commavia (Reply 11):
I wish AA would be able to get access to T5.

ditto here, as it would make my European/Asian connections easier!
"Up the Irons!"
 
kiwiandrew

RE: BA And QF Will Share T5 At LHR!

Fri Oct 21, 2005 10:32 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 15):
actually, from what I've been reading, BA's Walsh and AA's Arpey have been in very close contacts with each other..almost to the point of some kind of "merge"..no I'm not saying they are going to merge, but thats how close their business contact has been.....suffice to say, its more than BA-QF's

I have read it too , and I am not ignoring it - but there are two important factors likely to prevent AA's use of T5

1 / nothing is going to happen before openskies exist - which could be soon or
it could be years away

2/ AA's ops at LHR are far bigger than QF - therefore AA would require a lot
more valuable space at T5 than QF's handful of movements a day will .


At the moment AA/BA are specifically prohibited from codesharing and revenue agreements into/out of LHR - whereas the JSA between QF/BA means that all flights between LHR and Australia ( and indeed QFs FRA-SIN-SYD service) are run as codeshares and revenue shares - a much cosier relationship than currently exists between AA/BA ( but who is to say what the case might be 5 years down the track  Wink )
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: BA And QF Will Share T5 At LHR!

Fri Oct 21, 2005 11:07 pm

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 16):
2/ AA's ops at LHR are far bigger than QF - therefore AA would require a lot
more valuable space at T5 than QF's handful of movements a day will .

on a theoretical basis, your comments are correct, I was only commenting on the comparisons between the AA-BA and QF-BA relationships....thats all... Smile
"Up the Irons!"
 
LH423
Posts: 5868
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 1999 6:27 am

RE: BA And QF Will Share T5 At LHR!

Fri Oct 21, 2005 11:35 pm

Quoting Commavia (Reply 11):
I wish AA would be able to get access to T5.

I wish that as well, unfortunately T5 just won't have the logistics and space to handle AA's operation as well.  Sad

LH423
« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
 
vincewy
Posts: 533
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2005 8:32 am

RE: BA And QF Will Share T5 At LHR!

Sat Oct 22, 2005 2:00 am

Once T5 is opened, instead of opening up all slots BA freed from T1 and T4, do they have plan(s) to renovate some of the existing terminals? IMO, the best solution is tearing down T1 and T2, building another state of art mega terminal, like YYZ.
 
BHMNONREV
Posts: 1209
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2003 9:17 am

RE: BA And QF Will Share T5 At LHR!

Sat Oct 22, 2005 2:16 am

Quoting VSFLYER747400 (Reply 3):
It does make for a rather disjointed set up. I would imagine that minimum connection times would have to be on a par with a T1-T4 connection then. I tried searching to see if there was a thread on how the airlines might be distributed once T5 opens but couldnt see one.

Does OneWorld/BA have a plan in place for an airside shuttle from T3 to T5 and return, to cut down on those connecting times? It seems that something could be set-up, considering they will have the entire western half of the airport..
 
ZKOJH
Posts: 1446
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 9:51 am

RE: BA And QF Will Share T5 At LHR!

Sat Oct 22, 2005 2:59 am

I looked at the article today, in the BD diamond lounge at LHR, and part of T3 will become home to oneworld, tho QF going to T5 is some good news,.
Vietnam time..
 
scotron11
Posts: 1181
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 4:54 pm

RE: BA And QF Will Share T5 At LHR!

Sat Oct 22, 2005 4:20 am

Maybe that is why T5 has 5 stands able to handle the A380? On another thread about BA's future aircraft orders, I had always wondered why T5 had the capability of handling the A380 if BA wasn't ordering any.

Now it makes sense!
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 1529
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

RE: BA And QF Will Share T5 At LHR!

Sat Oct 22, 2005 5:09 am

Would there be enough room for Aer Lingus in T5? Most of it's aircraft (when in heathrow) don't spend hours on the ground plus most people wanting to fly to/from Ireland and Asia/Oceania and the middle east would connect in LHR to oneworld, wouldn't they?
 
NetworkDoc
Posts: 76
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2005 6:28 am

RE: BA And QF Will Share T5 At LHR!

Sat Oct 22, 2005 5:16 am

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 23):
Would there be enough room for Aer Lingus in T5?

If EI will still be in OW then...
Flown: AB/BA/BD/BI/CX/DI/DL/KE/KL/LH/LT/LX/MH/NW/OZ/PR/QF/SN/SQ/TW/UA/VS/5J.
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 1529
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

RE: BA And QF Will Share T5 At LHR!

Sat Oct 22, 2005 5:22 am

Quoting NetworkDoc (Reply 24):
If EI will still be in OW then...

Trust me, they will be. Oneworld thinks that Aer Lingus' slots at LHR are probably better off with them than any other alliance.
 
boysteve
Posts: 885
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2004 7:02 am

RE: BA And QF Will Share T5 At LHR!

Sat Oct 22, 2005 6:14 am

Quoting Scotron11 (Reply 22):
On another thread about BA's future aircraft orders, I had always wondered why T5 had the capability of handling the A380 if BA wasn't ordering any

Well I guess it's sensible airport design to have T5 A380 ready. BAA would look really stupid and it would cost far more in the long run if they had to amend part of T5 when it had only been open for 2 or 3 years should BA announce an A380 order in due course.
 
boo25
Posts: 275
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 1:03 am

RE: BA And QF Will Share T5 At LHR!

Sat Oct 22, 2005 10:28 am

No big deal - considering QF have 2 flights into LHR a day compared to BA's 400-500  Yeah sure !!!
 
Sydscott
Posts: 3061
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2003 11:50 am

RE: BA And QF Will Share T5 At LHR!

Sat Oct 22, 2005 10:45 am

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 4):
and it is not a huge number of flights that BA would need to accommodate in comparison with any of their other OW partners .

With the JSA and the codeshares, it makes sense for QF to move with BA and continue their current arrangements. At both QF's major international transfer points, LHR & LAX, they use the terminals of their partners and the AA-BA-QF partnership is still very close.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 15):
actually, from what I've been reading, BA's Walsh and AA's Arpey have been in very close contacts with each other..almost to the point of some kind of "merge"..no I'm not saying they are going to merge, but thats how close their business contact has been.....suffice to say, its more than BA-QF's..

I wouldn't say it's more than QF. QF & BA's operations at LHR and along the Kangaroo Route are basically merged. Management between the two airlines have been close for at least 10 years and the only reason BA sold the shareholding was because they didn't need the strategic stake anymore and could use the money to help cement other relationships which weren't as strong but just as strategic. ie Iberia.

Quoting Boo25 (Reply 27):
No big deal - considering QF have 2 flights into LHR a day compared to BA's 400-500 !!!

Actually QF have around 4 flights per day into LHR. 2 to Singapore, 1 to Bangkok and, (3 times per week), 1 to Hong Kong.
 
BDKLEZ
Posts: 1687
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 11:57 am

RE: BA And QF Will Share T5 At LHR!

Sat Oct 22, 2005 10:46 am

As far as I was aware, once T5 is up and running, BA/OW will operate exclusively from there. Meanwhile, Star will be T1 exclusively.
Trespassers will be shot; survivors will be shot again!
 
kaitak744
Posts: 2085
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 1:32 pm

RE: BA And QF Will Share T5 At LHR!

Sat Oct 22, 2005 11:28 am

Quoting VSFLYER747400 (Reply 3):
It would make sense (to me at least) if this happened.....

T5 - BA (all ops) and the other OneWorld carriers
T4 - SkyTeam
T3 - Other long haul carriers
T2 - Other European carriers
T1 - Star Alliance

That would be absolutely impossible. BA would take up 95% of T5. No room for all One World carriers.
Here is how its goes.

T5-BA, QF
T4-Skyteam
T3-One World (temporarily all A380 flights)
T2-(under debate wheather to demolish or not)
T1-Star Alliance (and all non alliance European flights), and ALL BRITISH AIRWAYS EUROPEAN FLIGHTS (A320 SERIES AIRCRAFT).

There is absolutely no way ALL BA flights can fit in T5. Anyone who has been to LHR can easily tell just by looking.

[Edited 2005-10-22 04:31:22]
 
BHMNONREV
Posts: 1209
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2003 9:17 am

RE: BA And QF Will Share T5 At LHR!

Sat Oct 22, 2005 12:00 pm

Quoting DavidT (Reply 2):
In common with practices elsewhere, BA will be T5's main tenant. THe terminal will be large enough for BA, for the first time ever, to operate all its flights under one roof.



Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 30):
There is absolutely no way ALL BA flights can fit in T5. Anyone who has been to LHR can easily tell just by looking.

I think it still remains to be seen whether or not BA will be able to get all of their flights into T5. I understand the two linear concouses will be built in stages, and if this is the case BA will certainly not be able to house all ops in T5 until both concourses are complete. T5 will have a capacity for 50-60 gates, which would be plenty for BA and QF...
 
kaitak744
Posts: 2085
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 1:32 pm

RE: BA And QF Will Share T5 At LHR!

Sat Oct 22, 2005 1:52 pm

Quoting BHMNONREV (Reply 31):
T5 will have a capacity for 50-60 gates, which would be plenty for BA and QF...

I am not saying you are nor a untrustable person, but where did you get that information from? It does seem pretty accurate. However, if you add up the BA gates at T4 and the BA gates at T1, the sum goes over 50-60 gates.
 
rwylie77
Posts: 322
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 6:11 pm

RE: BA And QF Will Share T5 At LHR!

Sat Oct 22, 2005 6:16 pm

Quoting NetworkDoc (Reply 10):
That would be great for the globalisation of the industry but I wonder if BA would be keen to see Sky and Star get their own terminals... That would be a lot of competition at its own doorstep, in particular as rival alliances would protect their home bases from rival constellation groups and probably not grant OW a special terminal at their bases.

Why? Sky and Star will not be getting any more landing slots, they will just be based in one terminal to make transfers easier rather than passengers having to travel between terminals...
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: BA And QF Will Share T5 At LHR!

Sat Oct 22, 2005 6:22 pm

Quoting Richardw (Reply 8):
AA JFK-LHR



Quoting Commavia (Reply 11):
I wish AA would be able to get access to T5.

And there is no way that will happen because of the sheer size of AA's operation at LHR

Quoting Scotron11 (Reply 22):
Maybe that is why T5 has 5 stands able to handle the A380? On another thread about BA's future aircraft orders, I had always wondered why T5 had the capability of handling the A380 if BA wasn't ordering any.

It is just good planning. AA built A380 gates in T4 at LAX before QF made their order and knowing they would never operate anything larger than the 777.

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 30):
There is absolutely no way ALL BA flights can fit in T5. Anyone who has been to LHR can easily tell just by looking



Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 30):
ALL BRITISH AIRWAYS EUROPEAN FLIGHTS (A320 SERIES AIRCRAFT).

Well, someone should tell both BA and BAA that, because they think that BA will have ALL their flights in T5
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
DavidT
Posts: 461
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 1:37 am

RE: BA And QF Will Share T5 At LHR!

Sat Oct 22, 2005 6:44 pm

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 30):
T1-Star Alliance (and all non alliance European flights), and ALL BRITISH AIRWAYS EUROPEAN FLIGHTS (A320 SERIES AIRCRAFT).

There is absolutely no way ALL BA flights can fit in T5. Anyone who has been to LHR can easily tell just by looking.

The articles make a point of BA not having to split ops over terminals. Given that most of their quotes are from oneworld themselves, I think it's reasonably reliable.

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