juventus
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Boston Logan's International Push

Sat Oct 22, 2005 9:22 pm

Two weeks ago, I started a topic about DFW trying to lure a few international carriers, now is Boston's turn. Boston Logan's management is seeking more international flights. Hong Kong and Beijing are mentioned.

http://www.airportbusiness.com/artic.../article.jsp?siteSection=1&id=3985
 
Cadet57
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RE: Boston Logan's International Push

Sat Oct 22, 2005 9:42 pm

Awesome, lets hope that BOS gets some of these flights, just what i'd love to see!

But another question, can Term E handle all these possible new flights?
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A330323X
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RE: Boston Logan's International Push

Sat Oct 22, 2005 9:46 pm

You know, I'll bet they'd have more luck getting international flights if they didn't make things impossible for their three largest carriers.  Yeah sure
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juventus
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RE: Boston Logan's International Push

Sat Oct 22, 2005 9:53 pm

I think BOS will have better luck with Europe and Latin America than Asia. Is there an airline that is willing to give it a go? (BOS-HKG, NRT or PEK) I don't think so...
 
fewsolarge
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RE: Boston Logan's International Push

Sat Oct 22, 2005 10:35 pm

BOS-HKG? Dream on. What about BOS-SYD?
 
BigGSFO
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RE: Boston Logan's International Push

Sun Oct 23, 2005 12:38 am

Probably the most likely in the next year or so would be AA to GLA, BRU and MAD with 757's.

DL hasn't shown much interest in expanding international BOS - even Mexico (too lazy to look it up to confirm this). B6 will probably add some flights to the Caribbean, maybe Cancun (or what's left of it after Wilma). US the same. But in terms of transoceanic service, Europe for now. Asia maybe within 10 years - NRT or China depending on bilaterals/slots etc.
 
JGPH1A
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RE: Boston Logan's International Push

Sun Oct 23, 2005 12:50 am

NEVEERRRR gonna happen - until BOS gets it's act together and put FIS into at the very least terminal A and/or B, BOS is stuck with the international flights it's got. Terminal E arrivals can't cope with the afternoon arrivals as it is, no matter how much they say it's been "refurbished". BOS just isn't up to standard as an international gateway.
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YoungFlyer
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RE: Boston Logan's International Push

Sun Oct 23, 2005 1:14 am

More int. flights from BOS would be great. However, as stated above I'm not sure if there is much room left in terminal E. Terminal A, DL new terminal, has a lot of room left in it but I do not see them sharing their new terminal at all.
Hope it would happen though,
Dan
"An eye for an eye only makes the whole world blind" -Gandhi
 
LH423
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RE: Boston Logan's International Push

Sun Oct 23, 2005 2:41 am

The only way Boston will see more international flights is if CBP is installed in another Terminal (Particularly B since AA seems to be the only carrier serious about starting international services) or if the flights are timed outside peak times (arrivals before 13h00 or after 20h00 and departures before 15h00 or after 20h00), otherwise there's no room at Terminal E. Supposedly they have their planned West concourse, but whether that ever comes to fruition is anyone's guess with Massport.

LH423
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chrisnh
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RE: Boston Logan's International Push

Sun Oct 23, 2005 2:54 am

Quoting A330323X (Reply 2):
You know, I'll bet they'd have more luck getting international flights if they didn't make things impossible for their three largest carriers.

Two words:
GOOD
POINT
 
Tornado82
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RE: Boston Logan's International Push

Sun Oct 23, 2005 4:39 am

Hell with that, put the internationals at MHT. It's a nicer airport anyways.
*Dons flameproof suit*
 
airbazar
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RE: Boston Logan's International Push

Sun Oct 23, 2005 6:24 am

Terminal E is mostly empty except for a couple of hours in late afternoon. What are you guys talking about Terminal E not being able to handle more traffic. Asia traffic would not use the same time slots are trans-atlantic flights so there's plenty of space at Terminal E for it.
 
deltaguy767
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RE: Boston Logan's International Push

Sun Oct 23, 2005 6:24 am

Quoting LH423 (Reply 8):
The only way Boston will see more international flights is if CBP is installed in another Terminal (Particularly B since AA seems to be the only carrier serious about starting international services

Not so fast, DL has a nice big new terminal that I'm sure could warrant International service on widebody jets nudge nudge. Now as I have been preaching, Massport won't allow this because they fu@#$% up building BOS as they made five terminals where one is completely empty. By that I mean the dump that houses Airtran, which is Terminal D. Now if Massport was run by someone who was actually intelligent, then they would combine D+E making a larger D to house the International carriers and Airtran. Then they would put INS/Customs in Terminals A and B because AA and DL are the only US carriers who are serious about Intl service at BOS. In the process they would move AC from Terminal C and put them in Terminal B or the new D as they are the only International carrier outside of Terminal E. I believe that AA and DL will not tolerate having to waste expensive fuel to taxi over to Term E to drop everybody off and then having to taxi back to their own terminals. If BOS wants to see more International service, then I believe that this is the only viable solution. But this won't be done as we have idiots who are cronies of Tom Fineran (speaker of house in MA) running Massport and have their heads up their  butthead .

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DeltaGuy767
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BigGSFO
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RE: Boston Logan's International Push

Sun Oct 23, 2005 6:38 am

Quoting DeltaGuy767 (Reply 12):
DL are the only US carriers who are serious about Intl service at BOS

Aside from Canada, what international destinations does DL serve from BOS?
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: Boston Logan's International Push

Sun Oct 23, 2005 6:56 am

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 13):
Aside from Canada, what international destinations does DL serve from BOS?

Bermuda and Nassau (starts in December, Saturday only).

DL has also applied to the DOT to start BOS-CUN.

DL briefly flew BOS-LGW. They've also announced BOS-FCO, but then never flew it. DL also came very close to announcing BOS-CDG before 9/11.
 
LH423
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RE: Boston Logan's International Push

Sun Oct 23, 2005 6:58 am

Quoting DeltaGuy767 (Reply 12):
Not so fast, DL has a nice big new terminal that I'm sure could warrant International service on widebody jets nudge nudge.

Absolutely, if DL want to start international flights, but given the fact that they're not really expanding their domestic service besides some Song flights and a token flight to Nassau (which B6 will probably nudge them out of anyway with their flights) and adding some RJs (but also cancelled quite a few as well). I just don't think DL is serious about Boston anymore. Though, bringing back more 767s is a nice touch  Smile They built this nice terminal but just don't have the money to properly utilize it.

Quoting DeltaGuy767 (Reply 12):
In the process they would move AC from Terminal C and put them in Terminal B or the new D as they are the only International carrier outside of Terminal E

Why move AC? Aside from YHZ, all of their flights have pre-clearance in Canada (and YHZ will be getting pre-clearance soon) and, for all intents and purposes, operate like domestic flights. If anything, move them to A...there's plenty of room there  Wink

As for your idea of combining Terminals D and E, well Massport sees it differently and will in the future be redesignating the terminals so that Terminal D becomes part of Terminal C and Terminal E will become Terminal D.

LH423
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COERJ145
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RE: Boston Logan's International Push

Sun Oct 23, 2005 7:06 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 10):
Hell with that, put the internationals at MHT. It's a nicer airport anyways.
*Dons flameproof suit*

I thought they already had Customs at MHT/PVD. With the 4X Toronto/Mortreal service, i'd thought they'd have it aalready. Or do they clear customs in Canada for entry into the US?
 
MarshalN
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RE: Boston Logan's International Push

Sun Oct 23, 2005 7:22 am

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 11):
Terminal E is mostly empty except for a couple of hours in late afternoon. What are you guys talking about Terminal E not being able to handle more traffic. Asia traffic would not use the same time slots are trans-atlantic flights so there's plenty of space at Terminal E for it.

Actually... any planes departing to Asia will leave in the afternoon around 7-8pm and arrive in Asia in the morning (7am arrival, depending on where you are). That would coincide with the later part of the Europe rush...

I'm not sure if it will work out, and any Asian flight is going to be hard to justify... maybe to NRT? Dunno
 
juventus
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RE: Boston Logan's International Push

Sun Oct 23, 2005 7:29 am

Quoting MarshalN (Reply 17):
I'm not sure if it will work out, and any Asian flight is going to be hard to justify... maybe to NRT? Dunno

Agree. AA to NRT is the only possible escenario when it comes to Asia.
 
deltaguy767
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RE: Boston Logan's International Push

Sun Oct 23, 2005 7:39 am

Quoting LH423 (Reply 15):
Why move AC? Aside from YHZ, all of their flights have pre-clearance in Canada (and YHZ will be getting pre-clearance soon) and, for all intents and purposes, operate like domestic flights. If anything, move them to A...there's plenty of room there

Good point, I however didn't know that the AC flights had pre-clearance so I was thinking that they would have to stop by Term. E for Customs/INS. But seeing as that they don't have to that it makes sense that they are in C. As for DL expanding Int'l from BOS, I think that soon they will do that, but not right now as they have serious problems to deal with. Once they get the fleet and $$$ straightened out then they will possibly expand at BOS.
Just my thoughts,

From BDL,
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Tornado82
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RE: Boston Logan's International Push

Sun Oct 23, 2005 8:23 am

Quoting COERJ145 (Reply 16):

I thought they already had Customs at MHT/PVD. With the 4X Toronto/Mortreal service, i'd thought they'd have it aalready. Or do they clear customs in Canada for entry into the US?

I believe they have a far-off int'l arrivals "shed" at MHT, from what I've heard here. My flights into MHT were all from either PIT, PHL, LGA, or DCA. (Guess what airline I was flying solely back then  Wink) I've heard a few people complaining about the int'l arrivals facility at MHT, something about it being over towards the FBO for GA or something. They might just be pre-screening though, it is Toronto only. I was meaning the HKG flights should go to MHT. I'm sure ChrisNH wouldn't mind a 777 or something.
 
zrs70
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RE: Boston Logan's International Push

Sun Oct 23, 2005 8:33 am

Once upon a time, BOS was the second largest transatlantic gateway (after JFK). But that was over 25 years ago.

Anyone remember when D was the international terminal?
17 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2016
 
airbazar
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RE: Boston Logan's International Push

Sun Oct 23, 2005 8:48 am

Quoting MarshalN (Reply 17):
Actually... any planes departing to Asia will leave in the afternoon around 7-8pm

From JFK/EWR/ORD, most flights leave well after that. Cathay's non-stop to HKG leaves after 11pm and so does SQ non-stop to SIN. Asiana's flight from ORD to Seoul leaves at 1am. These are just a few I know. So from BOS most flights would probably leave no sooner that 9pm when terminal E is completely empty.

Quoting DeltaGuy767 (Reply 12):
Now if Massport was run by someone who was actually intelligent, then they would combine D+E making a larger D to house the International carriers and Airtran.

And who pays for it? Talk is cheap but if you actually used BOS just 10 years ago you wouldn't be so fast to dismiss massport. The airport today is tremendously better than the dump we had just 10 years ago. And they did it all without tax-payer's money. Now that's something.
 
HPRamper
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RE: Boston Logan's International Push

Sun Oct 23, 2005 8:50 am

The problem with MHT is that it is not nearly as busy as BOS. Sounds nice, but it's a problem when it comes to connecting pax from international routes. BOS is a major airport, MHT is not. More carriers fly to BOS with much higher frequency of flights and larger aircraft, flying to more diverse destinations.

If int'l flights came into MHT we would merely be seeing an extra connection in the flight plans of the pax.
 
gift4tbone
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RE: Boston Logan's International Push

Sun Oct 23, 2005 8:55 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 10):
Hell with that, put the internationals at MHT. It's a nicer airport anyways.

MHT? Nah, lol, its a nice airport and all, but PVD is bigger nicer, and has better customs facilities. They already have a weekend charted to the azores. If the Nimby's relax a little, we might be able to get that RWY extention, and allow some 777s in here. That'd be the day. In 20 years the terminal will be almost twice its size, and the metropolitian area continues to grow. (RI is 2nd most populated state by square mile-NJ #1), And with the boston T commuter rail expanding to PVD, PVD seems like the likely choice for the new intl gateway to NE.

-Tony@PVD
Top 3 airports: PVD 23.9%(138 flights), PHL 14.7%(85 flights), PHX 10.2%(59 flights)
 
Tornado82
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RE: Boston Logan's International Push

Sun Oct 23, 2005 10:48 am

I wasn't extremely serious about the MHT thing. Besides, that place is a bit crowded to begin wtih.
 
deltaguy767
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RE: Boston Logan's International Push

Sun Oct 23, 2005 11:18 am

Quoting Gift4tbone (Reply 25):

MHT? Nah, lol, its a nice airport and all, but PVD is bigger nicer, and has better customs facilities. They already have a weekend charted to the azores. If the Nimby's relax a little, we might be able to get that RWY extension, and allow some 777s in here. That'd be the day. In 20 years the terminal will be almost twice its size, and the metropolitan area continues to grow. (RI is 2nd most populated state by square mile-NJ #1), And with the Boston T commuter rail expanding to PVD, PVD seems like the likely choice for the new intl gateway to NE.

-Tony@PVD

Hey Tony,
Not to be too quick to judge, but I just flew into PVD recently and it seems to me that there isn't much room for expansion. For a 777 you would need at least a 9000' runway for an airline to think about operation there due to the high density altitude during the summer months. Secondly, PVD just isn't as big of a city as BOS. If you were to ask an average joe to point out PVD versus BOS on a map, I would be willing to wager that they find BOS a lot easier. Now that's not to say that in 20 years 787's could fly out of there, but face it that chances of PVD becoming an International gateway are nearly impossible.Hey I live near BDL and with DL expanding their Song and mainline to the W.Coast and becoming the predominant carrier @BDL, I'm happy. PVD isn't in a great spot for expansion because its right next to BOS were people can get a lot more direct options versus PVD. Now for PVD's future I would think that you guys will probably see WN expansion if yields are good and maybe some US/HP expansion. But hey anything can happen.

From BDL,  wave 
DeltaGuy767
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navairjax
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RE: Boston Logan's International Push

Sun Oct 23, 2005 8:44 pm

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 23):
The airport today is tremendously better than the dump we had just 10 years ago.

With the exception of "Terminal" D. Which is the only piece of the airport to not have gone through significant changes.
 
georgiabill
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RE: Boston Logan's International Push

Sun Oct 23, 2005 11:50 pm

I believe Iberia has had discussions to return to BOS however as of yet nothing definitive. My hopes would be NS to Tokyo. Korean tried and failed so I don't see another Asian carrier considering BOS at the moment! American has the route authority but hasn't launched the service. NW prefers funneling people through DTW or MSP. UA probably prefers sending people through SFO. Europe as I said Madrid, maybe year round nonstop to MAN on AA, MUN on LH and this is a longshot but maybe Aeroflot when it joins Skyteam nonstop to Moscow( this is a long shot) EL AL tried and gave up so I doubt any middle east airline will consider BOS. Maybe Air India when and if they get their 777's. One problem with BOS is it's proximity to JFK and EWR. Latin America well if Aero Mexico( realize Mexico isn't Latin America) is any indicator their lack of success shows no market from BOS or not enough would be a more accurate statement. Aero Mexico is down to a weekly flight.
 
BigGSFO
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RE: Boston Logan's International Push

Mon Oct 24, 2005 12:01 am

Quoting Georgiabill (Reply 28):
American has the route authority but hasn't launched the service

AA actually started to promote and book seats for BOS-NRT but never launched the flight. The plug was pulled due to the dot.com bust I believe. It's my understanding the slot was used for LAX or the 2nd DFW-NRT flight.

Quoting Georgiabill (Reply 28):
Europe as I said Madrid, maybe year round nonstop to MAN on AA

MAD could be a possibility with a winglet-outfitted 757 which is slated to enter AA's fleet next spring. Makes sense to me with the IB relationship. I would think BOS-MAN going year-round is also a possibility (dropping to 4 or 5 days a week during the winter perhaps) although I am unclear of the loads. I've heard on this forum that the flight is a success.
 
nethkt
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RE: Boston Logan's International Push

Mon Oct 24, 2005 1:37 am

I couldn't beleive that BOS has no direct flights from Asia.

With a high number of Asian students at Hardvard, MIT and other schools there, airlines could make good money, even just for seasonal!

I think China airlines or EVA will be the first to fly TPE-BOS or maybe some Chinese airlines..or even Cathay Pacific. I remember seeing many asians there!  Wink
Let's just blame it on yields.
 
zrs70
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RE: Boston Logan's International Push

Mon Oct 24, 2005 2:12 am

Quoting Nethkt (Reply 30):
With a high number of Asian students at Hardvard, MIT and other schools there, airlines could make good money, even just for seasonal!

While the traffic is there, the fares the students pay aren't the high end that the airlines are looking for. Now, that said, I do believe there is a sufficient bussiness need for the routes.
17 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2016
 
Tornado82
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RE: Boston Logan's International Push

Mon Oct 24, 2005 2:25 am

Quoting Nethkt (Reply 30):


With a high number of Asian students at Hardvard, MIT and other schools there, airlines could make good money, even just for seasonal!

As has been said 100's of times on here, many by me, colleges don't suffice for air travel. Because other than Spring Break, Thanksgiving, Christmas, etc. those students are pretty much stationary. Who's going to start an Int'l station for 3 weeks a year or something?
 
BigGSFO
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RE: Boston Logan's International Push

Mon Oct 24, 2005 2:32 am

I agree 100% with Tornado82. A 777 BOS-NRT flight would be offered with the high yield crowd in mind.

Give it some time. Five or six years perhaps. Once the 787's come into play we'll probably eventually see BOS-NRT, along with PHX-NRT, MIA-NRT, DEN-NRT etc. But not anytime soon.
 
airbazar
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RE: Boston Logan's International Push

Mon Oct 24, 2005 6:30 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 25):
I wasn't extremely serious about the MHT thing

Well, I think MHT could at the very least support a daily non-stop to LHR.

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 32):
As has been said 100's of times on here, many by me, colleges don't suffice for air travel. Because other than Spring Break, Thanksgiving, Christmas, etc. those students are pretty much stationary.

For the most part yes, but Boston college students are not your average students. These are kids with a lot of money who often blow a week's worth of school to travel back home or go spend the weekend in Paris. I once met a Harvard Business School student from Germany who, in his own words, only travels in First Class.

Having said that, no, college students alone don't support a route no matter how rich they are but Boston has a lot more well off people and businesses other than students.
 
jcarv
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RE: Boston Logan's International Push

Mon Oct 24, 2005 10:39 am

Not sure why people blame Massport for all the International flights being at Terminal E. CBP/INS wanted all international flights at Terminal E after 9/11. They wanted all the facilities at a central location.
 
RL757PVD
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RE: Boston Logan's International Push

Mon Oct 24, 2005 10:23 pm

BOS will be the primary New England gateway for many years to come despite their problems. These problems will however, limit service form full potential.

As for the PVD/MHT....BOS still has ALOT of charters and those will be the first to move over. PVD has already seen some of this in the form of carribean and Azores charters. If even like 25% of BOS's charters eventually moved to PVD that would equate to 2-3 daily, which would be significant for an airprort of PVD's size (just under 6 milion pax).

Some have said PVD-London will be ultimatley possible in the 2020 year timeframe and I agree. Id imagine the Boeing 737 replacement with 787 technology would have the legs, and feasible amount of seats, and by that time PVD would be serving around 12 million annual passengers, so when that happens i think you'll see it.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
deltaguy767
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RE: Boston Logan's International Push

Mon Oct 24, 2005 11:10 pm

Quoting JCarv (Reply 35):
Not sure why people blame Massport for all the International flights being at Terminal E. CBP/INS wanted all international flights at Terminal E after 9/11. They wanted all the facilities at a central location.

If you were to look at a terminal map of BOS, you would think otherwise.

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DeltaGuy767
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BOSPMV
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RE: Boston Logan's International Push

Mon Oct 24, 2005 11:52 pm

A few years back, UA was showing on thier website new routes they were planning to inroduce, BOS- NRT, BOS-FRA were two of the new routes they were going to start up, this was before Sept 11th.


BOS will always be the main gateway to New England, there should be no debate there. For starters Boston is the largest city in the region, has more big business, has the largest concentration of college students in the country, has some of the best hospitals in the country, all of which Providence and Manchester lacks. Thats not a knock on those two cities, I am just saying that Boston has a lot more than what those 2 can offer, which shouldn't be considered an insult.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 36):
Some have said PVD-London will be ultimatley possible in the 2020 year timeframe and I agree. Id imagine the Boeing 737 replacement with 787 technology would have the legs, and feasible amount of seats, and by that time PVD would be serving around 12 million annual passengers, so when that happens i think you'll see it.

I dont think anyone is doubting you. In 15 years I think a lot of things will change. Add in the fact that the 787 is going to open up a lot of new routes out of cities to international destinations. I personally think a BOS-NRT flight would be do pretty well once the 787 is in service.


The only routes I think BOS is underserved on is a flight MAD and BRU. I don't think making a push into Asia should be the priority. I think settling on a couple of new European routes and a couple to Central America should be the focus. Sadly, BOS does not have the feeder traffic that ATL does to support new routes to places like SVO and NCE. I have flown to Tokyo twice, once stopping in JFK and the other in LAX and that was not that bad.
 
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chrisnh
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RE: Boston Logan's International Push

Tue Oct 25, 2005 12:10 am

Although I'm a MHT advocate, you won't find me making silly projections about international service here. MHT is what it is. The long-range plan, when they get around to breaking ground on the next terminal expansion, is for it to have a widebody gate at the end. The international service we'd get would come in the form of diversions from Logan, or Charter service. Both are feasible. Scheduled flag carriers are just myopic; they see Boston and nothing else. But Charter carriers from Europe think outside the box. They run 757s, 767s and A330s down to Orlando, using Sanford instead of MCO and taking on more fuel at Bangor, Maine when the 757s are used.

What would cause a Charter carrier to look at MHT? Well, first off: There isn't a whole lot of Charter service from Europe to Boston anyway. The scheduled carriers have the bases covered, and, let's face it, Boston is not the draw that Orlando is. But my thesis has been to promote MHT as a good destination for ski holidays. A native of Europe can actually come here to ski and do so more economically than if they stayed in Europe. That's because the rate of exchange favors that.

Overall, MHT needs--but does not yet have--a customs/immigration facility. We do NOT have a full-fledged one, and flights from Canada don't need a 'full-fledged' set-up. That's the first order of business, and it may happen in concert with the wide-body gate on the new expansion that is still on the drawing boards.

As for diversions from Logan, it makes sense to send them here. We're an hour north of Boston, and you could fill 2-3 buses with passengers from an Air France flight (for example) and drive them to Boston straight away. Traffic on the highways in the late afternoon is all coming north, not south. Once we're set up to handle such diversions and make deals with carriers to be the preferred alternate airport, we'll get a fair share of that kind of traffic...I'm sure of it. Fog right at Logan can translate into crystal-clear skies up at MHT.

Chris in NH
 
airbazar
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RE: Boston Logan's International Push

Tue Oct 25, 2005 12:24 am

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 39):
Although I'm a MHT advocate, you won't find me making silly projections about international service here.

You once said that Southern NH has a population with some of the most spare income in the country. I agree with you there. Southern NH and Boston Metro North also have a lot of businesses and business travellers. BOS has no less than 6 non-stop flights to London (?), all of them mostly O&D traffic.

I would not be surprised that a big chunk of those passengers drive down from the north every day to get on one of those flights to London. I think one daily MHT-LHR would be very feasible if/when MHT builds a wide body gate and FIS facility.
 
Tornado82
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RE: Boston Logan's International Push

Tue Oct 25, 2005 12:25 am

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 39):
highways in the late afternoon is all coming north, not south.

Except at that damned tollbooth going to Nashua.  Angry

How far are the nearest big-ticket ski resorts to MHT? Not too far north and northwest I assume?? I was just thinking (and posted) that the same things could be done at PIT or other Laurel Highlands region airports too a few days ago, but I was thinking inside the box for charters from flatter areas in the Midwest. Your Euro-thinking is a great idea for a place like MHT once its possible.

Also if one ever gets off the ground and running, an "international version of Southwest/JetBlue/Airtran" could make a place like MHT/PVD its gateway instead of BOS.
 
RL757PVD
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RE: Boston Logan's International Push

Tue Oct 25, 2005 12:44 am

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 40):
I think one daily MHT-LHR would be very feasible if/when MHT builds a wide body gate and FIS facility.

There are alot of airports that could technically support a London flight, but why should an airline at BOS pay to open up a second station at MHT, when those people would drive to BOS anyways? It makes no sense, the same can be said for PVD and even BDL, enough people will drive to the major gateways, and those that dont will connect in PHL EWR or IAD etc...

PVD MHT and BDL will all be limited to charters until a smaller 737 type aircraft can do the flights and a recognized carrier does the routes.

For scheduled (non-charter) european flights id put it at
2015 BDL
2020 PVD
2025 MHT
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
MAH4546
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RE: Boston Logan's International Push

Tue Oct 25, 2005 12:57 am

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 42):

For scheduled (non-charter) european flights id put it at
2015 BDL
2020 PVD
2025 MHT

It is only one weekly flight during the summer, but SATA/Air Azores PVD-PDL flights are scheduled, not charter.
a.
 
RL757PVD
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RE: Boston Logan's International Push

Tue Oct 25, 2005 1:02 am

Yea... i shoudl have specified year-round/ daily service...though these cities could have it daily summer only to start.... Use the planes to Europe in the summer and Carribean in the winter.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
airbazar
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RE: Boston Logan's International Push

Tue Oct 25, 2005 1:17 am

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 42):
There are alot of airports that could technically support a London flight, but why should an airline at BOS pay to open up a second station at MHT, when those people would drive to BOS anyways?

If there's enough demand, and the cost is right, why not? If you employ that way of thinking, why have MHT and PVD at all? Everyone can just drive to BOS right?

If you're a business traveller working in the Nashua/Manchester area and need to catch a flight to Europe you have 2 options: Either drive to BOS and catch your flight; or fly out of MHT and connect at ORD/IAD/ATL/YYZ. Either way your work day ends around noon. As you can see neither of these options are really attractive. The first carrier to operate out of MHT to Europe will likely win a huge number of very loyal customers.

The advantage I see in MHT over BDL, is that the airport is equaly attractive to any passenger that lives in greater Boston, north of the Mass Pike. I live on the 495 belt. That is a very large and very rich catchment area. If you're a leisure passengerr like me and have to travel to Europe with family, and had a choice between BOS and MHT I would chose MHT simply because parking at MHT is $8/day vesus $14/day at BOS, making my upcoming 2 weeks vacation to Europe that much cheaper, and airport is easier to navigate and less stressful  Smile I would gladly pay a higher fare to fly out of MHT.
 
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chrisnh
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RE: Boston Logan's International Push

Tue Oct 25, 2005 2:18 am

Also, there is something to be said for clearing customs and immigration when you're the only load of passengers doing so...versus waiting in a whole long line of passengers from multiple flights. While the major flag carriers have no interest in airports other than Boston, Charter carriers are happy to go anywhere that costs are cheaper. And MHT would probably let some Charters land for free to show the viability of the airport.

Sanford is to Orlando what Manchester is to Boston. And Sanford is doing well. Sure, the major flag carriers (BA et al) all gravitate to MCO/BOS. But carriers like MyTravel and FirstChoice prefer Sanford. And marketed properly, MHT would appeal to them. As I write this there is a FirstChoice 757 flying from London to Bangor right now...scheduled to land a little after 1:30pm today for more fuel. After an hour there, Flight 78 will depart for Sanford. This sort of thing happens a few times a week. I suppose there's no reason why MHT couldn't serve the same needs that Bangor does, but BGR has built a marvelous 'cottage industry' in refueling transient charter flights like this while also throwing bad passengers in the slammer when they act up on transatlantic flights.

What MHT needs is good promotion and a sales force to 'sell' the airport to carriers like FirstChoice, MyTravel and others. But the fact that this isn't happening now has more to do with the infrastructure not being in place yet rather than people asleep at the switch. Once the widebody gate gets constructed and we can handle the processing of inbound transatlantic passsengers, they'll start pushing things from the sales side. And our new CAT III upgrades will surely appeal to the major European carriers that are looking for an alternate to Logan for diversions. Now, BOS-bound transatlantic diversions can end up in places no closer than Montreal, Syracuse, Bangor, Albany, JFK...hardly the one-hour bus ride to Boston that MHT would be.

Chris in NH
 
RL757PVD
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RE: Boston Logan's International Push

Tue Oct 25, 2005 2:26 am

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 45):
If there's enough demand, and the cost is right, why not? If you employ that way of thinking, why have MHT and PVD at all? Everyone can just drive to BOS right?

Domestic and International are two totally different beasts. 90% of the people you are counting on to fill the MHT flight are are within a reasonanble drive to BOS. If its 30 miles to MHT and 30 miles to BOS...the airlines at BOS know they are going to get those pax anyways! The only way MHT would look attractive is if there was a decent premium to be made, which is the total opposite in the case of MHT.

Lets face it MHT can barely keep what it has now. never mind a London flight.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
PHLBOS
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RE: Boston Logan's International Push

Tue Oct 25, 2005 2:32 am

Quoting Zrs70 (Reply 21):
Anyone remember when D was the international terminal?

While D may have been considered part of the International Terminal at one time, the entire International Terminal complex was never, I repeat, never called Terminal D.

IIRC, the current BOS terminal lettering designations debuted sometime between 1983 & 1985. Prior to that, there were no terminal letter designations per say. Back then, people just referred to Old Terminal A as the Eastern Airlines Terminal and Terminal E as the International Terminal. Due to numerous carriers being stationed at both B & C; no particular airline carrier label really stuck out. Plus, passengers would get really confused if any carrier moved between the two terminals. The 3 Terminal D gates were kind of like orphans or no-man's land; in some ways, they still are.

It wasn't until an early '80s Boston Magazine article that referred to the terminal signage along the roadways at Logan as one of the most confusing signs in the country that prompted Massport to come up with the current terminal lettering scheme; which was unveiled as Logan Simplified

[Edited 2005-10-24 19:36:40]
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
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chrisnh
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Joined: Tue Jun 29, 1999 3:59 am

RE: Boston Logan's International Push

Tue Oct 25, 2005 3:07 am

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 48):
Lets face it MHT can barely keep what it has now. never mind a London flight

Ooooo...be careful about saying stuff like that. Unless you want people laughing about how Southwest started flights from PVD to Islip and yanked them unceremoniously  wave  about a year later. And that CO nonstop from PVD to Houston  wave  that died a quick death. The list is much longer, but we don't want to be talking about airports that 'can barely keep what they have,' now do we?