Matt D
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Northwest: Old Rules And A Future That Never Came

Mon Oct 24, 2005 7:12 am

I came across this old Northwest ticket jacket while cleaning out some of my airline stuff. I have no idea when, where, or how it came into my posession. All I know is...I have it.

http://x-2000r.angelcities.com/images/NW_cover.JPG

There is no date printed anywhere on it so I'm going to take an educated guess and say that it was printed sometime in 1986-1989. Prior to the 1986 takeover of Republic, Northwest was still calling themselves Northwest Orient. And in 1989, of course, is when they introduced the "Bowling Shoe" livery.

At first glance, I just thought it was an old ticket jacket. Then I examined it a little more closely and realized that it is a "standby" "Non-Rev" ticket holder. I got to looking at the rules and thought to myself....sheesh...by todays standards, this is pretty strict. I can't help but wonder if something like this was printed today, it would land NWA in court JUST for printing it.

http://x-2000r.angelcities.com/images/NW_rules.JPG

I mean for starters, it has separate male and female rules. What rules would apply to a transsexual or someone who identifies itself as androgynous?

Sounds to me like NWA wasn't up to par vís-a-vís inclusion.

No midriff bare?

I've seen women who were one or two positions away from CEO wearing bare "belly" shirts, along with nose and nipple piercings not to mention tattoes and NWA dares infringe upon our right to free expression?
I guess times have changed. Now whether or not it's for the better, we can argue that some other day.


Now let's look at the right side, rules 1-8. I could not help but chuckle when I read some of them.

For instance...look at rule #3. "Confirmed passengers must always be treated as special guests"

You've GOT to be kidding me, right?

Oh wait...this was printed back in the 80's, back when you weren't viewed as a nuisance and/or would be terrorist/criminal whenevr you wanted to board an airplane.


Then look at #5. "Occasionallythe meal we've planned for you must be served to a confirmed passenger. We're sorry when this happens, but we know you'll understand"

Even then, didn't Northwest operate some VERY long flights-say of the LA or New York to Tokyo variety?

I guess if you were flying MSP-ORD, missing a meal is no big deal. But I sure would've hated to be on an LAX-NRT flight and not be able to eat anything. I know if it was me, after surviving THAT ordeal, I'd hunt down the provisionaing agent that (mis)handled that flight and beat him with rocks.

Now look at the back cover. The caption "into our future". One cannot help but laugh at the plain red tail of that hypersonic, suborbital plane, or whatever you want to call it. Looks more like a scene right out of "2001: A Space Odyssey".

http://x-2000r.angelcities.com/images/NW_future.JPG

Well I don't think we'll be seeing that in our lifetimes. Isn't NWA in bankruptcy. And aren't they still the proud owner and operator of the worlds largest active DC-9 fleet?

Maybe if they manage to pull out of this and survive until the year 2500, when such travel *might* finally be a reality, this is a future glimpse of a "retro" rocketplane.

So all of this raises a number of troubling questions. For starters. How can a company such as Northwest expect its own employees to treat the customers as "Special guests" when their own managment treats them like 6th graders? If Northwest can't even plan or provide something as simple as a freaking meal, how can they expect them to make plans (and afford) lavish rocket planes such as the one they show-that will probably cost a trillion dollars apiece-assuming they are ever built?
 
caboclo
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RE: Northwest: Old Rules And A Future That Never Came

Mon Oct 24, 2005 7:33 am

Wow, a blast from the past! I can't wait for time travel; it must be much more fun than merely touring the other side of the world.

I can remember flying American and United in the '80s and I don't recall Dad wearing a jacket or tie.
Freight dogs have more fun
 
ejmmsu
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RE: Northwest: Old Rules And A Future That Never Came

Mon Oct 24, 2005 7:42 am

The livery on that spacecraft looks similar to their newest livery.
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
zrs70
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RE: Northwest: Old Rules And A Future That Never Came

Mon Oct 24, 2005 7:51 am

As you wrote, these are non-rev rules, and they make sense.

[Edited 2005-10-24 00:56:06]
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talkitron
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RE: Northwest: Old Rules And A Future That Never Came

Mon Oct 24, 2005 8:00 am

Yeah come on, this is some ticket for NWA employees flying on the cheap. I doubt even in the 80s men had to wear a sport coat in coach class and women weren't allowed to wear sandals without hosiery.  Smile
 
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knope2001
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RE: Northwest: Old Rules And A Future That Never Came

Mon Oct 24, 2005 8:25 am

I think these have been relaxed somewhat, but only a good handful of years ago I witnessed an US agent in Milwaukee deny a nonrev male for not wearing a sportscoat or suit. And Midwest definitely required nonrevs to dress up in the late 90's.

Some current employees should be able to fill us in.
 
AirWest
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RE: Northwest: Old Rules And A Future That Never Came

Mon Oct 24, 2005 8:42 am

The rules have been relaxed. Don't worry.
"And now I wish I was somewhere other than here"- JB
 
floorrunner
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RE: Northwest: Old Rules And A Future That Never Came

Mon Oct 24, 2005 8:47 am

Back in the Early 80"s I worked for People Express and when we non-reved we had to wear business attire. For men that was a sportcoat, tie and dress slacks. Women had a few more options, skirt and blouse with a tie, a dress of a conservative nature, or the same as men. For both we were limited to black or navy blue and a white shirt or blouse.
 
searpqx
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RE: Northwest: Old Rules And A Future That Never Came

Mon Oct 24, 2005 8:54 am

Wow - you can really tell the age of someone by what they consider normal for non-reving! Not a slam to the younger members at all, but these rules are what some of us grew up on. You NEVER got on a plane w/o a coat and tie (when AA started allowing coach travel in jeans and a shirt with a collar, it was like the second coming!). Meals were luxuries that you were grateful you got, but didn't say a word if you didn't. As for the LAX-NRT no meal issue, I don't know about NWA, but AA wouldn't even board you if they didn't think they had a meal for you (in J & F anyway).

Anyway, thanks for the memories Matt.
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
 
sllevin
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RE: Northwest: Old Rules And A Future That Never Came

Mon Oct 24, 2005 8:55 am

Pretty sure the spacecraft was the X-30 design, nicknamed the 'Orient Express' which would have been an ultra-high altitude hypersonic craft.

Steve
 
aa757first
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RE: Northwest: Old Rules And A Future That Never Came

Mon Oct 24, 2005 8:56 am

Quoting Floorrunner (Reply 7):
Back in the Early 80"s I worked for People Express and when we non-reved we had to wear business attire. For men that was a sportcoat, tie and dress slacks. Women had a few more options, skirt and blouse with a tie, a dress of a conservative nature, or the same as men. For both we were limited to black or navy blue and a white shirt or blouse.

Dress codes for non-revs are still in place.

AAndrew
 
burnsie28
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RE: Northwest: Old Rules And A Future That Never Came

Mon Oct 24, 2005 9:53 am

Quoting Aa757first (Reply 10):
Dress codes for non-revs are still in place

This is also true at NW, while jeans and pants are allowed in coach, and stuff FC remains, full khakis and collared shirt type of attire. If you are wearing normal pants, shoes, etc. and coach is full and FC is open, well you get a seat... in the airport.
 
NWBOS
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RE: Northwest: Old Rules And A Future That Never Came

Mon Oct 24, 2005 10:08 am

Keep in mind this was in the day where dressing up for a husband and wife didn't mean wearing matching velour track suits! These days, when I check people in I sometimes wonder if I'm working in a Greyhound terminal.

I believe in dressing for comfort too, but wearing sweats or pajama bottoms on Transatlantic flights is gross. If you look at the gate areas of the international flights it's only the Americans that do it too. I would think that if one is going to another country you would want to look presentable and not like a slob.

Class...just another thing lost in the race for rock bottom fares...
 
Matt D
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RE: Northwest: Old Rules And A Future That Never Came

Mon Oct 24, 2005 10:31 am

I'm right in that age group where I can see both age "standards" so to speak. I'm old enough to remember how some things USED to be and I'm young enough to empathize with the younger generation.

Although I mean no disrespect to either crowd when I say this, you older folks have to realize that, to the youngin's, you sound just like the "uphill both ways in the snow" speech that our parents and grandparents gave us.

In other words...the past is the past. The young folks never saw any of what you did. And being as such, they probably don't care either. All that todays 35 and under crowd knows is "background checks, ID badges, MP3's, and being 'sensitive to other peoples differences'". Who cares if TWA served bacon wrapped filet mignon and champaigne in First Class Domestic, or that you had to wear a suit? Nobody does any of those things anymore. TWA doesn't even exist anymore.

And you younger folks don't realize how easy you DO have it. I see young punks all the time trying so hard to be outrageous...to get attention....wearing multi colored spike hair, tats, piercings, the works....

and nobody looks, notices, or cares.

I sometimes want to go up to them and say...if you looked like THAT 20 years ago, people would've beaten the shit out of you. And no one would've even given you an employment application let alone hired you.
 
Kahala777
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RE: Northwest: Old Rules And A Future That Never Came

Mon Oct 24, 2005 10:59 am

As much as I am critical of what Northwest Airlines is today, I miss the old Northwest Airlnes.

1992 =
My first trip to London was aboard Northwest Airlines in 1992. It was a DC10 from San Francisco to Minneapolis, a 742 to Gatwick. The return was a 742 to Boston, and a 752 to San Francisco. I was overly pleased with the service, and the professionality of the flight crews. There was absolutely nothing to complain about. It was a wonderful trip.

1999 =
My first trip on KLM from Los Angeles to Rome via Amsterdam. To say the least I was less than enthused at the lack of professionalism of Northwest Airlines ground staff at LAX. In addition, there seemed to be a complete lack or understanding between the KLM crew and Northwest Airlines Agents at LAX.

2001 =
My second trip to Europe on Northwest Airlines. It was again a pleasant experience. The routing was Las Vegas to Detroit on a 752, and to Frankfurt on a DC10. The service was above what could have been expected, and the interior of both aircraft surpassed anything I could have imagined for an older model DC10. The one thing that I remember being totally shocked by was how clean and different the bathrooms on Northwest Airlines DC10 are from other airlines.

2003 =
My first sole domestic Northwest Airlines trip. The routing was La Guardia to Minneapolis on a A320, and connecting to Sacramento on a A320. The first thing I thought when I got onboard was "What Happened"? This was not the same Northwest Airlines from two years ago. Was I on the same airline?

True, I am a United Airlines fan, but I was at one time very happy with Northwest Airlines. Perhaps, I am like many other people. Many other people, that miss what Northwest Airlines was, and am afraid of what has become of Northwest Airlines. My best to all of the people that made Northwest Airlines.

KAHALA777
 
lincoln
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RE: Northwest: Old Rules And A Future That Never Came

Mon Oct 24, 2005 11:03 am

I really am suprised that people haven't started trying to check in (at the airport) in the nude.

Dress standards really have gone down hill fast in even in the few years I've been paying attention.

I can't tell you how glad I was when I felt underdressed wearing a collared knit shirt and slacks when I went to my first production at Playhouse Square Center.

Lincoln
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searpqx
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RE: Northwest: Old Rules And A Future That Never Came

Mon Oct 24, 2005 11:11 am

Quoting Matt D (Reply 13):
you older folks have to realize that, to the youngin's, you sound just like the "uphill both ways in the snow" speech that our parents and grandparents gave us.

LOL - yep I'm sure it does. But, since you were posting something from that era, it seemed appropriate.

I make no bones, I do miss what travel was back in 70s and early 80s. But at the same time, I appreciate the fact that it's now a commodity that is accessible to just about everyone. And the fact that I'm no longer in the industry, but can still aford to fly whenever I want to, means I wouldn't trade today's environment for yesteryear's filet for anything.
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
 
Kahala777
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RE: Northwest: Old Rules And A Future That Never Came

Mon Oct 24, 2005 11:35 am

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 15):
Dress standards really have gone down hill fast in even in the few years I've been paying attention

It is a two way street. People are treated like cattle, they dress the part. Employees are payed like cattle, they dress the part.

KAHALA777
 
FCYTravis
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RE: Northwest: Old Rules And A Future That Never Came

Mon Oct 24, 2005 11:37 am

This is not some "air travel has no class" thing.

It's simply society at large becoming far less formal. Casual Fridays, polo shirts, etc. You can argue that's a good thing or a bad thing, but it is what it is.

When I fly, be it up front or in the back, I usually wear dress pants and a polo shirt. I'm not going to wear a suit and tie to fly from Oakland to Kansas City via Phoenix.
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SuperD
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RE: Northwest: Old Rules And A Future That Never Came

Mon Oct 24, 2005 3:52 pm

The dress code is slightly more formal than that currently required for our non-revs. We do spell out what is acceptable for male and female dress. The difference is that now jeans are technically allowed in coach, but I don't think I've ever seen a non-rev wearing jeans. On the other hand, I guess ties are pretty rare for non-revs these days. The rest of the guidelines for non-reving sound pretty standard. In fact, I don't think this varies much from my company's current non-rev policies. The only difference is the checkin times, which are mostly due to the internet enabling pass riders to do all of the work for themselves.

I suppose I am technically a member of the "younger" generation, and I don't think this policy is excessive at all. A non-rev is in some way affiliated with the airline, and they should look and act in a manner that reflects well on that airline.
 
NorthstarBoy
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RE: Northwest: Old Rules And A Future That Never Came

Mon Oct 24, 2005 4:37 pm

ive had two experiences where i was required to dress up. the first was 1995, flying Midwest express on a fam trip to Los Angeles, on the trip back, one of the women in the group, who was pregnant, was bumped from the flight because she wasn't wearing PANTY HOSE! i was like omg, get a life, who cares if someone is wearing panty hose or not! i've never flown Midwest express since. for reasons i can't remember they didn't let any of the rest of us on to begin with, so we ended up having to wait 8 hours at lax airport, because they wouldn't book us to Milwaukee.

in 1996, i took United's Experience the world program to Singapore, remembering the way i was treated by Midwest Express, i dressed up until we got on the plane from Chicago to Tokyo, once we were airborne and i was sure they would not be throwing me out of the plane at FL330, i changed into more comfortable clothes. to this day i won't travel as a travel agent because i don't want to be subjected to the ridiculous rules that come with the territory.

as for flying northwest:
1985: Denver to London Gatwick, 727-200 Den Msp, 747-100 (my first 747) Msp Lgw, rude gate agents, rude flight attendants, lights on all night kept me awake all night, dubbed it the "transatlantic torture chamber."

2005: Denver to Amsterdam, A320 Den Msp, DC-10 Msp Ams, apathetic check in agents, flight from Msp to Ams was delayed, no reprotection from NW "talk to KLM when you get to Amsterdam" had to stand in line at Transfer desk, missed connecting flight as a result, had to wait two extra hours. No information from NW officially on the cause of the delay, overheard gate agents saying it was a lav problem. trip back: 31 year old DC-10 that looked 31 years old. wings made all sorts of strange noises during start up, taxi and take off (hmm, the plane was ex-KE, maybe that explains it)

i'm sorry to say that in the 20 years since the last time i flew NW internationally, the service has not changed, i won't be flying them again abroad. then again, having flown AA on my previous three trips to Europe, i was actually expecting good service! silly me!

anyway, enough ranting from me

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NWBOS
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RE: Northwest: Old Rules And A Future That Never Came

Mon Oct 24, 2005 8:50 pm

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 18):
This is not some "air travel has no class" thing.

I respectfully disagree. There is a problem with our society in general as far as standards go, and I'm sorry but I don't think track suits are acceptable travel attire for ANY adult, unless they are a special needs passenger.

I went to the Boston symphony the other night and saw some kids there in shorts and t-shirts. Keep in mind the musicians onstage are wearing tuxedos and black formal wear. Not only is this disrespectful to the artists, it is in extremely bad taste and judgment and takes away from the enviornment and experience that the musicians are trying to create.

We've gone way too far in the business casual direction, IMHO. Even our polo shirts that we can now wear as part of our uniform look cheap and unprofessional.
 
B707Stu
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RE: Northwest: Old Rules And A Future That Never Came

Mon Oct 24, 2005 10:34 pm

Last time I worked for an airline was in the 80's. At that point we HAD to dress, dress pants, shirt, tie, jacket, period. You'd be inspected at the gate and if you didn't pass, you didn't get on. A confession of sorts. When I worked for AA in the old days of paper nonrev tkts they used to attach to the back of the tkt something that showed your nonrev status and seat number for the f/a to pull upon entry into the aircraft. I used to remove it on the jet bridge and always get a meal! Bad I know but hey I'm human!
 
SBN580
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RE: Northwest: Old Rules And A Future That Never Came

Tue Oct 25, 2005 12:15 am

Quoting Sllevin (Reply 9):
Pretty sure the spacecraft was the X-30 design, nicknamed the 'Orient Express' which would have been an ultra-high altitude hypersonic craft.

I did work with the X-30 program. This is not exactly how the X-30 was finally envisioned. This is more of a stylized version of a space plane. The X-30 was more wedge shaped and had a snubbed off nose.

Quoting NWBOS (Reply 21):
I respectfully disagree. There is a problem with our society in general as far as standards go, and I'm sorry but I don't think track suits are acceptable travel attire for ANY adult, unless they are a special needs passenger.

I went to the Boston symphony the other night and saw some kids there in shorts and t-shirts. Keep in mind the musicians onstage are wearing tuxedos and black formal wear. Not only is this disrespectful to the artists, it is in extremely bad taste and judgment and takes away from the enviornment and experience that the musicians are trying to create.

We've gone way too far in the business casual direction, IMHO. Even our polo shirts that we can now wear as part of our uniform look cheap and unprofessional.

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access-air
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RE: Northwest: Old Rules And A Future That Never Came

Tue Oct 25, 2005 7:26 am

Hello......this was a non-revenue ticket jacket....It was NOT meant for the general public...That is what all the dress coce rules are for...for NON-REVENUE travllers only , i.e., airline employees....or BUDDY PASS riders...

So chill out everyone.....

Access-Air
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jasoncrh
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RE: Northwest: Old Rules And A Future That Never Came

Tue Oct 25, 2005 9:03 am

these rules dont surprise me...
my friend's father was the CFO at Northwest in the late 1980's/ early 1990's. she told me about a time that she and her mother were travelign some place using a pass... keep in mind that this is the daughther and the wife off the company's CFO... well, apparently the mother/wife wasnt in complete compliance with the dresscode when they checked in for their flight at MSP and the agent sent them home - told them they had to change their clothes and get into compliance in order to get on a flight... yep, strict.
 
worldjet777
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RE: Northwest: Old Rules And A Future That Never Came

Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:49 am

I find these rules very appropriate...it would make sense to have your non-revs dress well- they represent the airline don't they?
Now Your Flying Smart
 
planespotting
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RE: Northwest: Old Rules And A Future That Never Came

Tue Oct 25, 2005 11:21 am

yeah, why is the original poster so surprised about this?

All airlines (from what i can gather) have dress code requirements for non reving pax. At Southwest we had to wear a collared shirt and slacks (no jeans). This pamphlet was 20 or so years ago and times have changed since then.

I for one wish people still dressed up like this for flying. Unless I am coming home on an international flight (the coming home flight i always just dress comfortable, not necessarily messy), I make sure to wear a button down collared shirt, tucked in with a nice pair of pants and shoes.

I don't really mind when other people wear flip flops or shorts and stuff like that, but it's not something I would do. Call me old fashioned but I still think that an airline flight is a special occasion and that people should dress appropriately.
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DCrawley
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RE: Northwest: Old Rules And A Future That Never C

Tue Oct 25, 2005 12:43 pm

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 8):
these rules are what some of us grew up on.

Yes sir, I must agree. I remember flying DL all across the country and internationally as a kid and always asked my father why I had to wear slacks, a dress shirt, and a clip-on tie. I did not understand it when I was so young, but there were several times that since my family was dressed so nicely that we got the last seats on the aircraft, most of the time they were first class as well (before the days of frequent flier upgrades). These days, even traveling non-rev, I still dress nicely in slacks and a dress shirt. I don't know if it has anything to do with my growing up doing it or if I just like to look good (LoL), but people look at you differently. I have never minded it, but some people I've worked with sure do. My oh my how times have changed!

g'day,
-d
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RE: Northwest: Old Rules And A Future That Never Came

Tue Oct 25, 2005 1:08 pm

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 8):
Wow - you can really tell the age of someone by what they consider normal for non-reving! Not a slam to the younger members at all, but these rules are what some of us grew up on.

I'm only 33, but grew up non-reving on EA, and to a lesser extent, CO. "Back in the day," you didn't even THINK of coming near an airport without a jacket and tie on. Jeans? What are those? Jeans didn't exist in the airport unless they were tucked safely away in your suitcase.

EA was so hard-core that you couldn't even take your tie off onboard - just the coat. The only time you got to remove the tie was if you were traveling anywhere in the Caribbean or South America, and even then you were only permitted to open the very top button on your dress shirt.

Even to this day, I feel...odd...getting on a plane in jeans. Shorts? Forget it. Can't do it.

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 16):
I make no bones, I do miss what travel was back in 70s and early 80s.



Me too.
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Lemurs
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RE: Northwest: Old Rules And A Future That Never Came

Tue Oct 25, 2005 1:17 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 29):
Quoting Searpqx (Reply 16):
I make no bones, I do miss what travel was back in 70s and early 80s.

Me too.

I understand the nostalgia, but I don't miss what those days meant. Those were times when traveling by air was a special occasion, you did it infrequently (unless you lived it...oh how I envy you), and you definitely didn't do it often if you were in the middle class because it was EXPENSIVE. I love the fact that flying is much more egalitarian now, even if it means that it's treated more like bus service than limo service. How many buses fly 7 miles up at near the speed of sound, after all?  Smile
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flashmeister
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RE: Northwest: Old Rules And A Future That Never Came

Tue Oct 25, 2005 4:59 pm

I went to the Boston symphony the other night and saw some kids there in shorts and t-shirts. Keep in mind the musicians onstage are wearing tuxedos and black formal wear. Not only is this disrespectful to the artists, it is in extremely bad taste and judgment and takes away from the enviornment and experience that the musicians are trying to create.

This is happening everywhere, just like with air travel. When a company -- or a symphony -- actively markets itself to the "commoners", then you're going to get people who dress like "commoners". It shouldn't come as that much of a surprise...

We've gone way too far in the business casual direction, IMHO. Even our polo shirts that we can now wear as part of our uniform look cheap and unprofessional.

Ehh... I'll take attentive and courteous service delivered from someone in a polo and shorts over cold and mechanical service from someone dressed to the nines, any day of the week. I don't, for a second, buy the notion that how you dress dictates how you behave. Casually-clad crews at WN and F9 sealed that one for me, especially after seeing the "performance" of the oh-so-fashionable-and-yet-so-unapproachable AF crew on my recent trip.

Should there be standards? Sure, but remember that those are just the facades. Too many carriers these days need to focus on the substance, not the window dressing.
 
kevi747
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RE: Northwest: Old Rules And A Future That Never Came

Tue Oct 25, 2005 5:35 pm

Quoting Matt D (Reply 13):
In other words...the past is the past. The young folks never saw any of what you did.

Yeah, but I think its fun to look back and see how things were back then. Flying was so much nicer. However I think most people tend to remember the good times more than the bad. My mom was a stewardess in the 70's and she has some horror stories of out of control PAX. She was even punched in the stomach by a man she had cut off from alcohol. The "good ol' days"
weren't always so good.

Quoting Matt D (Reply 13):
I see young punks all the time trying so hard to be outrageous...to get attention....wearing multi colored spike hair, tats, piercings, the works....

There have always been young people wanting to rebel and find their own identities, and I think its great. You're starting to show your age a little here.  Wink

Plus, as others have stated, there are still non-rev travel rules in place (granted they're not as strict). I guess your ticket jacket didn't seem as outrageous to those of us who work in the industry.
"Reality has a well-known liberal bias." --Stephen Colbert
 
UAcosCS
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RE: Northwest: Old Rules And A Future That Never Came

Wed Oct 26, 2005 2:25 am

Quoting Talkitron (Reply 4):
Yeah come on, this is some ticket for NWA employees flying on the cheap. I doubt even in the 80s men had to wear a sport coat in coach class and women weren't allowed to wear sandals without hosiery.

If you were a non-rev or so you call it "flying on the cheap." You did have to dress that way. Women up until a few years ago on UAL COULD NOT wear open sandles shoes, and have no hose on. Men had to wear a collared shirt at ALL times, while on the cheap. Smile
We had dreams and songs to sing, It's so lonely round the fields of Athenry.

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