ghost77
Posts: 4461
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2000 2:07 pm

Mexico, Toluca Airport Not Looking Good!

Mon Oct 24, 2005 2:10 pm

Today I visited TLC airport for a few hours to take some pictures and to find out what was new at the terminal...

Nova Air

Cut service a month ago after 4 weeks of operation with a weekly service. They promised to return by December during the high season. Route: TLC-CUN-TLC

Magnicharters

Cut service last week after serving the airport for 2 months with 2X a week routing TLC-CUN-TLC.

Republic Air

They recently started a weekly charter flight routing TLC-GDL-SJD-GDL-TLC which will be flown all the way to December... same month they will add CUN charters and increase frequencies to GDL and SJD. They're studying the possibility of opening PVR by December during the high season only.

Interjet

Saw a lot of ads in the terminal plus a few directions with signs when driving of how to get to their new special-exclusive terminal which currently is open to buy tickets. Went there and ask a few Q's to the staff on ground. They said to me that it's confirmed it's start-up by Dec 15th, BUT, there are high possibilities of launching flights before, she said December 1st was the date. She also told me that fares will stay year-round/won't-change and will not matter the day you buy, if you go directly to the counters or via Internet.

Airport Facilities

I haven't seen much improvement, a good thing is the fact that the parking lot fee per day is 10 pesos only and according to some sources it will stay unchanged for the next months... new control tower is being built on the other side of the airport, runway lightning for ILS Cat III is ready, we are just missing the ILS which will soon be installed by November and will be on by December, a new parallel taxiway for the beggining of runway 15 is almost complete, the only problem still is the small cheesy terminal.

Currently TLC airport with all it's private operations handle 350,000 pax in 2004... and with all this new start-ups I hardly see TLC reaching 1M for 2006 but that will be it. They urgently need to built a new terminal or adapt it better, otherwise it will be impossible to make the MEX, TLC and PBC project happen.

Has anyone visited TLC recently? Want to share some experiences?

ghost77 APM
Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
aaway
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RE: Mexico, Toluca Airport Not Looking Good!

Mon Oct 24, 2005 2:17 pm

Ghost77,

Wasn't TLC being touted as potential reliever for MEX? I was under the impression that the Mexican government had plans to develop that airport.
"The greatest mistake you can make in life is to continually be afraid you will make one." - Elbert Hubbard
 
N405MX
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RE: Mexico, Toluca Airport Not Looking Good!

Mon Oct 24, 2005 2:21 pm

Quoting Aaway (Reply 1):
I was under the impression that the Mexican government had plans to develop that airport.

We all where under that impression, but it seems that it´s not the gold mine they told.
Life is what happens when you have other plans.....
 
captaink
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RE: Mexico, Toluca Airport Not Looking Good!

Mon Oct 24, 2005 2:29 pm

Maybe a dumb question, but what is the MEX, TLC and PBC project? Is MEX needing to be relieved? Or was TLC just being looked at as another option to fly out of? Does TLC see any internation commercial flights? How many gates are there at TLC?
There is something special about planes....
 
juventus
Posts: 2017
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RE: Mexico, Toluca Airport Not Looking Good!

Mon Oct 24, 2005 11:59 pm

Quoting Ghost77 (Thread starter):
Has anyone visited TLC recently? Want to share some experiences?

I flew there 3 times in 2004. From a corporate pilot perspective, their business building and service is extraordinary. Looking accross to the airline terminal, it looks like it needs some work, but never been inside.
 
N1120A
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RE: Mexico, Toluca Airport Not Looking Good!

Tue Oct 25, 2005 12:09 am

Quoting Captaink (Reply 3):
Does TLC see any internation commercial flights?

CO flies to TLC from IAH
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
IBERIA747
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RE: Mexico, Toluca Airport Not Looking Good!

Tue Oct 25, 2005 12:13 am

Air Madrid operates to Toluca from MAD with an A340-300.
¡¡VIVA ESPAÑA!!
 
juventus
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RE: Mexico, Toluca Airport Not Looking Good!

Tue Oct 25, 2005 12:14 am

Quoting Captaink (Reply 3):
Maybe a dumb question, but what is the MEX, TLC and PBC project? Is MEX needing to be relieved? Or was TLC just being looked at as another option to fly out of?

Mexico's government wanted TLC to draw some traffic away from MEX to relieve congestion. They suggested TLC to a couple of companies, but so far, nobody has come forward. They especially don't want US airlines flying Regional Jets into MEX, and general aviation aircraft are out of the question. The fact is that passengers need or want to fly to MEX directly, they don't care about the airport's congestion problem.
 
rojo
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RE: Mexico, Toluca Airport Not Looking Good!

Tue Oct 25, 2005 12:25 am

Quoting N405MX (Reply 2):
We all where under that impression, but it seems that it´s not the gold mine they told.

Gold mines have to be worked out. Nothing comes free and easy. If airlines want TLC to work, they have to lure people to use the airport by doing some good marketing, providing extra benefits (like no traffic during peak hours using the toll highway, cheap parking, etc.) and good fares. It will take time, but it can be done.
 
XA744
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RE: Mexico, Toluca Airport Not Looking Good!

Tue Oct 25, 2005 1:38 am

... I truly believe Toluca is bound to become a major airport. There´s no alternative to the congestion of MEX. To reach this airport is a real gamble, you never know if you are going to make it ! Traffic conditions in Mexico City will have to get worse before they could get any better. We all know that.

You see, most of the corporate and leisure high yield traffic comes from areas such as Lomas, Polanco and suburban Satélite and Tlalnepantla. It is just the matter of deciding to take the plunge, and develop an intelligent strategy based on what accurately Rojo suggests.

We Mexicans love to keep everything centralized, that´s been our mistake for so many years. However, in order to develop a healthy and competitive airline industry, decentralization is the way to go. Toluca must be pushed at all costs, before is too late to regret not having done it !

Regards
No matter how you fly...just never get your wings clipped !
 
juventus
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RE: Mexico, Toluca Airport Not Looking Good!

Tue Oct 25, 2005 3:30 am

Quoting Aaway (Reply 1):
Wasn't TLC being touted as potential reliever for MEX? I was under the impression that the Mexican government had plans to develop that airport.

They came up with those plans only after their plan to build a new MEX airport failed. They should have paid more attention to TLC years ago. TLC needs to be worked on, because PBC, QRO and CVJ are too small and too far to be used as relivers.
 
ghost77
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RE: Mexico, Toluca Airport Not Looking Good!

Tue Oct 25, 2005 3:32 am

Quoting Aaway (Reply 1):
Wasn't TLC being touted as potential reliever for MEX? I was under the impression that the Mexican government had plans to develop that airport.

Yes it is, but as I said above, infrastructure at TLC airport is very limited. They lack a decent passenger terminal and TLC’s tarmac for commercial operations it’s too small. Of course, if they built the second runway and the new terminal which has been promised on the other side of the airport that would totally be another story.

But problem is that expansion at TLC is being done at a very slow speed. It should be a priority from the local and federal government to get TLC airport ready as it currently is MEX T2 which will boost MEX capacity from 25 to 35M pax a year, that is, if airlines continue flying narrow body jets, but in the future those carriers who want to increase their passengers they will be forced to fly wider bodies, otherwise they will not have any other option for growth.

Quoting Captaink (Reply 3):
Maybe a dumb question, but what is the MEX, TLC and PBC project? Is MEX needing to be relieved? Or was TLC just being looked at as another option to fly out of? Does TLC see any international commercial flights? How many gates are there at TLC?

MEX-TLC-PBC project is a federal decentralization project. SCT wanted to divert flights from MEX from several airlines (most of them domestic traffic) to TLC or PBC airport and offer lower fares and same connections to passengers thru this terminals in order to give a longer period of life to MEX, on others words, yes, to relieve it.

Yes, TLC is being considered as another option to fly out of. # of Gates…? If they clear hal of the tarmac currently being used by some old veterans in bad airworthy conditions they could easily arrange 10 aircraft at the time (B737/320 size)., but currently I see 5 non-contact positions.

Quoting Rojo (Reply 8):
providing extra benefits (like no traffic during peak hours using the toll highway, cheap parking

I would suggest lowering the fee at the toll highway and making parking free during the first months!!! This would certainly help.

Quoting XA744 (Reply 9):
We Mexicans love to keep everything centralized, that’s been our mistake for so many years. However, in order to develop a healthy and competitive airline industry, decentralization is the way to go. Toluca must be pushed at all costs, before is too late to regret not having done it !

I think we Mexicans like to get the highest profits with the minimum effort. I’m still not so sure about decentralization on its way… I’ve heard once T2 start running with AM+Skyteam and probably 6A, several gates at different hours will be left free at T1 which could allow more carriers to land at MEX. I’ve heard lots of slots will be free and MEX authorities of course will be wiling to accept all that additional traffic. They will have new and more space on ground but in the air things will get very worse and very interesting for ATC’s and pilots!

ghost77 APM

[Edited 2005-10-24 20:35:25]
Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
AM
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RE: Mexico, Toluca Airport Not Looking Good!

Tue Oct 25, 2005 4:26 am

Ricardo,

Where are Republicair's aircraft parked? I suppose the commercial aviation apron is not used for this purpose, since it barely has space for arriving and departing aircraft, which have to be towed to/from say, the former Taesa hangar? And Nova Air and Magnicharters had to ferry their airplanes from MEX for their flights to CUN, right?

Just a couple of questions about the airport's infrastructure. Do you know if the current taxiway system allows a large airplane (for example, FX's MD-10), to taxi from the FedEx facility all the way to the former Taesa hangar without having to back-taxi on the runway?

So, no real improvements have been made to the passenger terminal, eh? I can't imagine how Air Madrid's flights are handled with only 2 or 3 check-in counters (which must be shared with Continental Express, Magnicharters, Nova Air and Republicair), and a really small boarding gate and baggage claim area.

About the ILS Cat III, I didn't know it wasn't yet operational. Although it's good to know that it will be up and running by the foggy winter season.

Some real work has to be done before December, when Interjet's flights are to start. Otherwise, they won't be able to accommodate all the flights they want to be operating by Dec. 15.
"... for there you have been and there you will long to return."
 
ghost77
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Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2000 2:07 pm

RE: Mexico, Toluca Airport Not Looking Good!

Tue Oct 25, 2005 9:12 am

Quoting AM (Reply 12):
Where are Republicair's aircraft parked?

At the apron, between GD's hangars now ZE's and the tarmac.

Quoting AM (Reply 12):
And Nova Air and Magnicharters had to ferry their airplanes from MEX for their flights to CUN, right?

Hmm I sincerely ignore that!

Quoting AM (Reply 12):
Do you know if the current taxiway system allows a large airplane (for example, FX's MD-10), to taxi from the FedEx facility all the way to the former Taesa hangar without having to back-taxi on the runway?

Yes, in fact yesterday aircraft landed on 33, did a 180, and on the first one to the right evacuate and then it preceded direct to FDX.

Quoting AM (Reply 12):
So, no real improvements have been made to the passenger terminal, eh?

Yeap

Quoting AM (Reply 12):
Some real work has to be done before December, when Interjet's flights are to start. Otherwise, they won't be able to accommodate all the flights they want to be operating by Dec. 15.

Yes! I see big failure...! They have to do something ASAP.

ghost77 APM
Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
juventus
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RE: Mexico, Toluca Airport Not Looking Good!

Wed Oct 26, 2005 4:53 am

I came accross this article "TLC to get $184 million face-lift".

http://www.latinfinance.com/default....4&storyid=3335342&s=Infrastructure
 
ghost77
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RE: Mexico, Toluca Airport Not Looking Good!

Thu Oct 27, 2005 2:03 pm

Quoting Juventus (Reply 14):

Good news for TLC. More over, reading an article @ expansion.com.mx titled La Guerra En El Cielo The War in the Sky - according to Mexico's DGAC estimations TLC could handle in the short term from 1.5 to 2.0M with all this new start-up projects and expansion at the airport!

But still for me, looks bad unless they expedite the work that has to be done ASAP.

ghost77 APM
Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
N747PE
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RE: Mexico, Toluca Airport Not Looking Good!

Thu Oct 27, 2005 9:56 pm

TLC was very interesting at night back when West Air del Mexico was flying. I can't tell you the number of times we had to divert to MEX with our Metros.
I remember one stormy night it was raining so hard that the water level caused a manhole cover to come off on one of the taxiways. As luck would have it one of our planes was taxing and found the hole. The nosegear hit the hole dead center and caused the plane to bend just aft of the door. They had to break the cockpit glass to get the crew out. Needless to say one more metro became beer cans.
 
ghost77
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Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2000 2:07 pm

RE: Mexico, Toluca Airport Not Looking Good!

Mon Nov 07, 2005 2:52 pm

*Update! In two weeks Interjet's first A320 will land in MEX for presentation and then it will be ferried to it's base at TLC.

Their site confirms they'll start flights by mid-Dec but it's highly probably they'll take-off on December 1st!!!

On a side note, a source at the ALMA (Aerolíneas Mesoamericanas) project told me today that they have selected a fleet type, they will go with Embraer!!! Their corporate colors so far seen on logos only are based on green and red. Hopefully they come up with something catchy to the eye with their c/s on their birds!!


ghost77 APM
Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
N405MX
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RE: Mexico, Toluca Airport Not Looking Good!

Mon Nov 07, 2005 11:14 pm

Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 17):
Their site confirms they'll start flights by mid-Dec but it's highly probably they'll take-off on December 1st!!!

MTY will begin on DEC05.

As for their counters, nothing yet, still the white spot between MX and GMT.

Saludos
Life is what happens when you have other plans.....
 
MTY2GVA
Posts: 77
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RE: Mexico, Toluca Airport Not Looking Good!

Mon Nov 07, 2005 11:20 pm

ALMA chose exactly the combination I would have if I could create an airline Embraer/Red-Green livery (Beautiful Mexican flag colors of course).
Tengo orgullo de ser del norte del mero San Luisito...
 
ucunnn
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RE: Mexico, Toluca Airport Not Looking Good!

Tue Nov 08, 2005 7:38 am

As far as i checked, MX will operate through its LCC Click a non-stop flight TLC-CUN, in January 2006 or maybe a bit before. I have checked through www.travleocity.com a flight to CUN from TLC in January and it shows is a Mexicana flight operated by Aerocaribe. (I guess they haven't changed the name registered now under Click). It is a 2.10 hr flight and i am sure that after this MX through Click for sure will think in GDL or MTY form TLC. i GUESS THAT'S THE IDEA for them .

If you check www.clickmx.com or www.clickmexicana.com you will find out in their destinations from TLC, CUN and HAV althought in the map route it doesn't show up yet.
 
TWA902fly
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Joined: Fri Dec 31, 1999 5:47 am

RE: Mexico, Toluca Airport Not Looking Good!

Tue Nov 08, 2005 7:50 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 5):
CO flies to TLC from IAH

yeah sort of, they fly once a day ERJ to IAH...

'902
life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
 
Avianca
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RE: Mexico, Toluca Airport Not Looking Good!

Tue Nov 08, 2005 7:54 am

Quoting IBERIA747 (Reply 6):
Air Madrid operates to Toluca from MAD with an A340-300.

+ the new flights to BCN ( I think they already started)
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
rojo
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RE: Mexico, Toluca Airport Not Looking Good!

Tue Nov 08, 2005 1:35 pm

Quoting Ucunnn (Reply 20):
As far as i checked, MX will operate through its LCC Click a non-stop flight TLC-CUN, in January 2006 or maybe a bit before. I have checked through www.travleocity.com a flight to CUN from TLC in January and it shows is a Mexicana flight operated by Aerocaribe. (I guess they haven't changed the name registered now under Click). It is a 2.10 hr flight and i am sure that after this MX through Click for sure will think in GDL or MTY form TLC. i GUESS THAT'S THE IDEA for them .

QA was supposed to be the first airline operating a schedule TLC-CUN-TLC (Magnicharters was first to fly the route, although they are a charter airline) but thanks to the hurricane they had to postpone the flight till January 16.
By the way, Click is just the brand for Aerovias Caribe, SA - IATA = QA. They will not change the company name (Razón Social), because in Mexico, it is not required.

Quoting Ucunnn (Reply 20):
If you check www.clickmx.com or www.clickmexicana.com you will find out in their destinations from TLC, CUN and HAV althought in the map route it doesn't show up yet.

They were in the map for two days, but had to take them away due to the delay of the flight start date. QA will fly TLC-CUN-HAV, but they won´t sell the CUN-HAV portion through Click. It will only be sold as a codeshare (MX7000) thanks to all Americans who keep filling the planes at high prices.
 
N405MX
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RE: Mexico, Toluca Airport Not Looking Good!

Wed Nov 09, 2005 12:03 am

Quoting Rojo (Reply 23):
QA was supposed to be the first airline operating a schedule TLC-CUN-TLC

QA7223/7221 was about to start at the end of october, October31 if i remember right, but got delayed because of hurricane Katrina and some operation movements with QA, the route was TLC-CUN-HAV-CUN-TLC, the ETD on TLC was 7am.

Quoting Rojo (Reply 23):
It will only be sold as a codeshare (MX7000) thanks to all Americans who keep filling the planes at high prices.

Heard it´ll be sold as QA/MX, not only as a codeshare, the problem is that HAV don´t handle the E-TKT, and Click intends to sale only E-TKTS.

Saludos
Life is what happens when you have other plans.....
 
rojo
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RE: Mexico, Toluca Airport Not Looking Good!

Wed Nov 09, 2005 1:22 am

Quoting N405MX (Reply 24):
Heard it´ll be sold as QA/MX, not only as a codeshare, the problem is that HAV don´t handle the E-TKT, and Click intends to sale only E-TKTS.

You are correct, QA has some problems setting the CUN-HAV-CUN portion in the Navitaire platform.

CUN-HAV is a very profitable route for QA, since there is few competition and a very big market, so don't expect them to sell tkt's through Click distribution channels in the near future.