Orion737
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Negative Impact Of No-frills On Eastern Europe

Mon Oct 24, 2005 6:33 pm

Been reading the new Easyjet book by Lois Jones and within their is a chapter which looks at the impact of airlines like Ryanair and Easyjet on the Czech Republic, Estonia and Poland.

While these airlines have provided positive economic impacts they have also had many negative affects.

The author interviewed many people in these host countries and they are appalled and shocked and quite resentful of hoardes of stag and hen parties, and lager louts behaving badly in their cities.

Mooning, fighting, being abusive, gangs of British stag parties harrasing local girls and the growth in strip joints and lap dancing to provide entertainment to this growing form of tourists.

The passengers who years ago were flying Dan Air or Britannia and getting drunk and behaving badly in Lloret and Magalluf are now causing the same havoc in Prague and Tallinn. The 'lager louts' now travel with Easyjet and FR where they can go on a stag weekend to Prague for the same cost as a 'P*** up' in Blackpool.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Negative Impact Of No-frills On Eastern Europe

Mon Oct 24, 2005 6:39 pm

Quoting Orion737 (Thread starter):
Mooning, fighting, being abusive, gangs of British stag parties harrasing local girls and the growth in strip joints and lap dancing to provide entertainment to this growing form of tourists.

The passengers who years ago were flying Dan Air or Britannia and getting drunk and behaving badly in Lloret and Magalluf are now causing the same havoc in Prague and Tallinn. The 'lager louts' now travel with Easyjet and FR where they can go on a stag weekend to Prague for the same cost as a 'P*** up' in Blackpool.

It is interesting that all the negative examples you have given involve Brits . Low cost airlines operate into these same destinations from Belgium without causing any problems so perhaps the solution is not to ban low cost airlines - but rather to ban your countrymen from travelling until they learn how to behave themselves
 Wink
 
Orion737
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RE: Negative Impact Of No-frills On Eastern Europe

Mon Oct 24, 2005 6:46 pm

I agree with you. Britain has always had a problem with 'lager louts' and badly behaved tourists. Years gone by it was Lloret, Magalluf and Ibiza where they headed, smashing up pubs, mooning, peeing in streets, being abusive and fighting and causing disruption.

More recently it was Faliraki on Rhodes but thanks to EasyJet and Ryanair, low fares and the prosepct of cheap beer once there, these kind of tourists, many going for long weekends on 'stag' or 'hen' do's are now jetting off to Prague and Tallinn.

Many of the people in these countries are fed up of this behaviour, which before the advent of LCCs was virtually unheard of in their cities.

A good point was made about the growth of strip joints, lap dancing and prostitution all which seem very popular with hoardes of British lads.

Many older British Woman also think that because many in these countries are less wealthy than Brits, they might pick up a 'toyboy'

I really hope countries like Czech Republic try and address these problems before the social and cultural make-up of their people and cities is eroded.
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: Negative Impact Of No-frills On Eastern Europe

Mon Oct 24, 2005 6:47 pm

Blame it on the pathetically useless, corrupt and ignorant city government in Prague - they should get their priorities straight and decide what sort of tourists they want to attract to Prague.
Maybe instead of wasting millions on TV ads for Prague on CNN and god knows where they should i.e. deal with the taxi mafia once and for good - something they have been incapable of (unwilling?) so far.
To make it even more absurd these clowns want to apply for hosting the 2016 Olympics... As if there wasn't enough debts to be repaid after the 8 years of soc-dems running the government. Because of three weeks of sports on TV we'll end up like Argentina couple years ago.

[Edited 2005-10-24 11:51:06]
 
Orion737
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RE: Negative Impact Of No-frills On Eastern Europe

Mon Oct 24, 2005 8:10 pm

Talinn, Riga and Prague are all promoted as ideal weekends for 'stag parties' hen parties' binge drinking at cheap prices' and good looking, ahem, totty.

One comapany with the name of 'Prague piss ups' have long been organising stag dos, claiming an 'all nighter is cheap and that with pub crawls and strippers,

The man behind this scheme is called Tom Kenyon whom in addition to Prague also now offers trips to Talinn and Riga. According to Kenyon, 'low cost flights and stag parties and drinking, go hand in hand'

This type of tourism is bad news for these destinations. they may well soon end up wishing that these tourists would stay away and try and reinvent these destinations to suit couples and older tourists.

A Spokeswoman for tourism in Prague said 'We welcome the increase in tourists from cheap flights but when it is a group of 20 British men on a stag party, it sometimes isnt very nice'

EasyJet and Ryanair have made visiting these cities cheap plus the prospect of cheap beer, means that this type of 'drinking culture' which causes many British market towns to become no go areas full of fights and lewd behaviour is spreading to Eastern Europe.

[Edited 2005-10-24 13:12:04]
 
AirbusA6
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RE: Negative Impact Of No-frills On Eastern Europe

Mon Oct 24, 2005 8:15 pm

It's amazing how British lager louts and lasses have managed to turn what were, a few years ago, cut off, exotic east european cities into places to get sh*t faced cheaply Sad

Indeed, us Brits travel so much on these cheap flights, that we overwhelm them. For example, 10 years ago La Rochelle was a very French coastal resort. Now, thanks to LCC, it's full of British accents...
it's the bus to stansted (now renamed National Express a6 to ruin my username)
 
Orion737
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RE: Negative Impact Of No-frills On Eastern Europe

Mon Oct 24, 2005 8:22 pm

Yes. Remember when resorts like Lloret de Mar, Magalluf and San Antonio were full of yobs and lager louts, the papers were full of stories of all day binge drinking, fights and lewd behaviour. Spain made an effort to discourage these type of tourists and it worked and these resorts now are much better as a result.

I feel sorry for many of these destinations in Eastern Europe which are full of British passengers all flying for £50 return on easyJet or Ryanair. They desperatley need the business but with that has come lewd behaviour, strip joints, lap dancing, happy hours, uriniating in public, harrassment of local women and the streets and hotels been full of gangs of lads on stag dos looking for a piss up on the cheap.

I read that the British authorities is aware of the impact of some of these LCC passengers and awre working with Czech authorities and Police to clamp down on violence and drunk behaviour.
 
gkirk
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RE: Negative Impact Of No-frills On Eastern Europe

Mon Oct 24, 2005 8:26 pm

Yes, stop people from going to Eastern Europe to spend money thus providing no money for Eastern European countries to develop leaving them in a state of crapness.
Really Orion737, is there anything you DON'T bitch about?  Confused
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
Orion737
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RE: Negative Impact Of No-frills On Eastern Europe

Mon Oct 24, 2005 8:32 pm

Yes but with the financial benefits comes a social impact. You know what many of our town centres are like on a Saturday night! Idiots binge drinking, fighting, urinating and causing havoc.

These gangs of stag dos are having an adverse imapct on the cities of eastern Europe. Encouraging lap dancing and stripping as a way of earning money and even worse, prostitution.

The British authorities are concerned G Kirk, its not just me!
 
Meridian
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RE: Negative Impact Of No-frills On Eastern Europe

Mon Oct 24, 2005 8:34 pm

Makes you so proud to be British, doesn't it? I have actually been put off travelling to some of these cities, ie Tallinn and Riga because I feel embarrassed by the exploits of some of these Brits. The local police should prosecute them as hard as they can, and then the airlines they flew in on should ban them for life. I know that's hard to do, but something needs to be done. You can't blame the LCC's for the behaviour of the little idiots this country produces.
I have to talk to myself. No-one else listens!
 
Orion737
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RE: Negative Impact Of No-frills On Eastern Europe

Mon Oct 24, 2005 8:36 pm

No but the LCC carriers with their cheap fares have facilitiated this.

These destinations are now suffering a similar problem as what blighted Spanish resorts years ago and more recently Faliraki.

In Faliraki, these lager louts and gangs were getting worse and the police had a real problem. Locals and hoteliers were living through hell. Setting off fire alarms, baring their genitals and in some extreme incidents, rape and sexual assaults and violent attacks.

Lets hope the authorities tackle this problem before it gets out of hand.
 
7LBAC111
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RE: Negative Impact Of No-frills On Eastern Europe

Mon Oct 24, 2005 8:39 pm

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 8):
Encouraging lap dancing and stripping as a way of earning money and even worse, prostitution.

Seems this post is more about you looking for something else to complain about than your concern for the well being of our European counterparts. If this thread is, which I suspect, about your dissaproval of the above, perhaps you should repost this in NonAv.

That said I dont see how someone who ogles at Jet2 crew. and who offers to hold hands with our younger members can be offended by such things!

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 7):
Really Orion737, is there anything you DON'T bitch about?

Yes. Dan Air and Britannia.  sarcastic  Big grin

7LBAC111
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jmc757
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RE: Negative Impact Of No-frills On Eastern Europe

Mon Oct 24, 2005 8:43 pm

The charter airlines of the 80's did it in Spain, now its just shifted. No difference really.

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 6):
Yes. Remember when resorts like Lloret de Mar, Magalluf and San Antonio were full of yobs and lager louts, the papers were full of stories of all day binge drinking, fights and lewd behaviour. Spain made an effort to discourage these type of tourists and it worked and these resorts now are much better as a result.

It still happens in these resorts. Spain don't exactly discourage it. What they do is MANAGE it better. At the end of the day, if you provide it they will come. And these places do provide. Spain is a good example. Magalluf (as an example from personal experience) is very well run on a whole. Its there for the young and lively (the authorities know that) and they let people have their fun. However, any trouble and they're on top of it straight away.

Greece is another good example. The last few years they've experienced the rough end of the 18-30 lot. However, they are now starting to manage it much better and the resorts are improving.

I don't condone the actions of many of these Brits doing what they do. But its not all one sided. Like I said, these places cater for this type of tourism. If they didn't, then people wouldn't go. It's irresponsible though of authorities to cater for it to get there £££ and then turn round and say "Oh no what a mess, look what all these brits have casued". they must be prepared to manage it.
 
Orion737
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RE: Negative Impact Of No-frills On Eastern Europe

Mon Oct 24, 2005 8:51 pm

I am concerned about the impact of this type of tourism on cities such as Prague.

We all hear about the sex workers in Britain who come from eastern Europe and many of the young men and women see a job at a strip joint or as a prostitute to entain gangs of British lads on Stag dos many of whom are holidaying in these cities for the same as they could in Blackpool, as an easy way to make money. That has a knock on effect on the culture and life of these cities.

It is a real problem and one which I am glad to say, is being addressed by the police in these countries and the authorities.

While there is no doubting that airlines like Easyjet and Ryanair serving Eastern European cities has had positive economic impact in the hotel and the retail sector, we must also acknowledge the darker side.
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: Negative Impact Of No-frills On Eastern Europe

Mon Oct 24, 2005 8:56 pm

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 7):
Yes, stop people from going to Eastern Europe to spend money thus providing no money for Eastern European countries to develop leaving them in a state of crapness.

Sure, couple of CZK off VAT from the beer sales and money spent in mafia run brothels will be something like 2nd Marshall plan for this country...  Yeah sure  Yeah sure  Yeah sure

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 10):
No but the LCC carriers with their cheap fares have facilitiated this.

They are in the market to make money offering affordable fares. It's not their fault what sort of people boards thir aircraft, as I said before I'd blame the "destination" for not being able to attract more sohisticated crowd of tourists.
 
aireuropeuk733
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RE: Negative Impact Of No-frills On Eastern Europe

Mon Oct 24, 2005 8:56 pm

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 11):
Quoting Gkirk (Reply 7):
Really Orion737, is there anything you DON'T bitch about?

Yes. Dan Air and Britannia.

Don't forget Air Europe  Wink

AE733
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BHXFAOTIPYYC
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RE: Negative Impact Of No-frills On Eastern Europe

Mon Oct 24, 2005 9:20 pm

It's Catch 22. I was talking to a bar owner in Albufeira here in the sunny Algarve a while ago about it. He said that whilst they might be low quality lager louts who have a few fights and break a few chairs, they do leave a large amount of money behind. They'll bring £500 for a 3 day stag weekend, and still need more from the cash machine. Compare that to the nice quiet locals who have very little spare cash right now and might spend £20 in a night,.... you get the point.
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joshdean
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RE: Negative Impact Of No-frills On Eastern Europe

Mon Oct 24, 2005 9:21 pm

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 1):
perhaps the solution is not to ban low cost airlines - but rather to ban your countrymen

Right on. I am always embarrassed whenever I go abroad and see the Brits speaking to the locals the way they do and behaving with total disregard for the country they are in. It's made worse by the fact that it's likely to be the same people who have a go at the eastern Europeans when they are in the UK telling them to 'pi** off and go and find a job in your own country'. They should stick to Blackpool.
 
7LBAC111
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RE: Negative Impact Of No-frills On Eastern Europe

Mon Oct 24, 2005 9:28 pm

Quoting Joshdean (Reply 17):
I am always embarrassed whenever I go abroad and see the Brits speaking to the locals the way they do and behaving with total disregard for the country they are in.

Totally agree. I heard some Liverpudlian 'scum' (thats the best verb for them) loudly comparing Hungarian women to Llamas while on board our Jet2 flight from BUD-MAN just a few weeks ago.

But how this can be blamed on an airline, as Orion suggests, is beyond me.

7LBAC111

[Edited 2005-10-24 14:31:08]
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
RedDragon
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RE: Negative Impact Of No-frills On Eastern Europe

Mon Oct 24, 2005 9:44 pm

Don't you see, 7LBAC111? It's the fault of the airlines, as Orion has clearly stated, for offering fares that are too accessible to the plebs and underclass of British society. Hence, rather than restricting said underclass to our own shores, where they are currently dragging the country back into the dark ages, the low-cost airlines are allowing them to travel abroad and wreck the rest of the world. If it weren't for LCCs, flying would still remain the privilege it used to be - when ladies wore pencil skirts, gentlemen had nicer bums to look at down the aisle, and grannies everywhere had free cups of tea with which to take their vital medication. Prague, Tallinn and the like would be full of upper-class Lords and Ladies - and I mean real ladies, not the so-called "ladettes" we have in these new-fangled times - patronising the poor, simple native folk who would be grateful just to receive a shilling from the British.

What do you mean, we don't still use shillings?
 
7LBAC111
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RE: Negative Impact Of No-frills On Eastern Europe

Mon Oct 24, 2005 9:48 pm

Quoting RedDragon (Reply 19):

Hehe. Very good.

7LBAC111
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Negative Impact Of No-frills On Eastern Europe

Mon Oct 24, 2005 10:06 pm

Quoting Joshdean (Reply 17):
Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 1):
perhaps the solution is not to ban low cost airlines - but rather to ban your countrymen

Right on. I am always embarrassed whenever I go abroad and see the Brits speaking to the locals the way they do and behaving with total disregard for the country they are in. It's made worse by the fact that it's likely to be the same people who have a go at the eastern Europeans when they are in the UK telling them to 'pi** off and go and find a job in your own country'. They should stick to Blackpool.

Oh no! I compose what I think is an ironic response - and I end up getting quoted ! I will probably find myself with a price on my head - and even worse , face the withdrawal of my British passport .

The point I was trying to make , and several other people have obviously made it more clearly than I have , is that it is ludicrous to blame the low cost airlines for a problem created by a small number of people who utilise them . The people are responsible for their own actions . The large number of people who use low cost airlines and do not create any problems should not be penalised because of the actions of a few . I agree with the ( I hope) tongue in cheek response from Red Dragon - to my mind the threads against LCC's smack more of snobbery from those who feel that the "privilege" of travel should be reserved for those who have traditionally been able to afford it .

Having worked both in the travel industry and in the hospitality industry I can easily think of a dozen examples in my own personal experience of appalling behaviour from people who can afford business/first class airfares - as I can from people travelling on rock bottom fares ..... and I am sure that if arrogant or offensive behaviour while abroad thus embarrasing your country were grounds for "grounding" someone then the Duke of Edinburgh would have long since been confined to the British Isles - yet , to the best of my knowledge , he doesn't regularly travel on U2 , FR or any other low cost carrier .
 
BestWestern
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RE: Negative Impact Of No-frills On Eastern Europe

Mon Oct 24, 2005 10:12 pm

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 10):
No but the LCC carriers with their cheap fares have facilitiated this.



Quoting Orion737 (Reply 13):
I am concerned about the impact of this type of tourism on cities such as Prague.

Its great... Dublin is now a cosmopolitan city again now that that scallies have somewhere else to go.

I'll blame it all on the Tory Party and Lady Diana... If it wasnt for Maggie, these people wouldnt have the money to go away! As for Lady diana... if it wasnt for her loose morals, we would all be church going and be in bed at 8pm on Friday night  Smile
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
Orion737
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RE: Negative Impact Of No-frills On Eastern Europe

Mon Oct 24, 2005 10:27 pm

Without the low fares of EasyJet and Ryanair, such destinations like Riga, Prague and Tallinn were beyond reach of many of the lager louts. Before airlines like EasyJet starting flying to these places, your average 'binge drinker or sex mad hooligan hadnt even heard of Prague or Riga.

These destinations are finding themselves with a real problem on their hands. While they welcome that the LCCs have put these destinations on the map for the Brits and bring in hundreads of tourists each week to spend money, they are also shocked at the way some of these tourists behave.

One Estonian lady told the author of the Easyjet book ' These Brits get loud and drunk and want to take their trousers off'

While drunken behaviour and rowdy stag parties are tolerated as they bring in vital business, there has also been an increase in strip joints and lap dancing clubs and prostitution. This is very worrying and I fear that some girls in these destinations see that kind of job as a quick way to get money and are probably been exploited and also causing problems for their families and communities.

It is all very well saying this isnt the fault of the LCCs, they must take some blame as before their arrival on the scene a weekend of drunken, loutish debauchery was out of the price range of most yobs.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Negative Impact Of No-frills On Eastern Europe

Mon Oct 24, 2005 10:36 pm

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 23):
Without the low fares of EasyJet and Ryanair, such destinations like Riga, Prague and Tallinn were beyond reach of many of the lager louts

without the low fares of EasyJet and Ryanair, such destinations as Riga, Prague and Tallinn were also beyond reach of many of the ordinary , hardworking , lawabiding members of the less upwardly-mobile British public who , after years of being criticised for only going to lowbrow destinations ( because that was all they could afford) decided it was time for them to actually visit cities rather than resorts , time to meet the real people , time to try the local cuisine rather than the fish and chips or pies and peas that everyone offered them at the resorts , and maybe even time to see some of the cultural sights that these historic cities have to offer ( and while there to spend some of their hardearned GBP to the benefit of the locals. )
 
Orion737
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RE: Negative Impact Of No-frills On Eastern Europe

Mon Oct 24, 2005 10:59 pm

Good point, although the tourists who are the problem, gangs of men and women on stag and hen parties or gangs of mates going for the cheap sex andf cheap beer are hardly to be found soaking up the culture and architecture of these cities or visiting the museums and art galleries.

They are puking in the street, making nuisances of themselves in bars and intimadating locals. Its a growing problem and one which these cities are completley unable to understand that 'lets drink and get naked and cause a fight' mentality which affects many young British males.

I have even seen Flybe specifically target the 'stag and hen' party weekends on their website (yes I know they dont go eastern Europe yet) The LCCs should play a part in addressing this problem, for instance, zero teloerance on drunken passengers being allowed on board or those making offensive remarks or using foul language. Airlines like FR and EZY bring in these passengers so to say its none of their concern what their passengers do upon arrival is a bit naieve.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Negative Impact Of No-frills On Eastern Europe

Mon Oct 24, 2005 11:20 pm

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 25):
I have even seen Flybe specifically target the 'stag and hen' party weekends on their website (yes I know they dont go eastern Europe yet)

irrelevant - as you yourself admit they do not fly to the destinations which are the subject of the thread you started - do you have any links to similar advertising from airlines which do actually fly to those destinations ? If so please provide them for discussion instead .

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 25):
Airlines like FR and EZY bring in these passengers so to say its none of their concern what their passengers do upon arrival is a bit naieve.

Two years ago I travelled through Borneo and saw some appallingly behaved Western tourists - using bad language , being very loud and drunk and wearing scanty clothing in a small Muslim village - funnily enough neither FR nor U2 fly to South East Asia - in fact one of the group had BA baggage tags on his backpack , so , are you suggesting that I should have written a letter of complaint to BA about the incident since it was one of their pax - after all they brought the pax to SE Asia - surely to say it's none of their concern what their pax do upon arrival is a bit naive .
 
ltbewr
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RE: Negative Impact Of No-frills On Eastern Europe

Mon Oct 24, 2005 11:23 pm

Many tourist locations in the USA, Mexico and the Carribbean also had similar problems with young party animals with the cheap fares that came with deregulation. This became especially bad during 'spring break' by college and a growing number of high school students. Over the years, the citizens and politicans of these tourist locations said 'enough' and enacted new policies to chase out the kids and encouage 'quality' adult tourists, including from Europe. They limited the numbers of or banned totally those under 21 of age at hotels, as well as the number of occupants in motel rooms, made drinking and being drunk in public illegal and warned arriving tourists to behave well and face penalies or jail time.
Perhaps what these Eastern Euro locations should do is make it clear upon entry of the laws and expected beheavor, and note the problems including jail time for illegal beheavor. They should make sure 12 guys aren't renting a hotel room. Make it very clear the risks of prostitution (STD's, exploitation) and excessive drinking (injury, death, being put into jail). Perhaps some publicity of some louts ending up in nasty drunk tank in a Prague jail might help.
 
Pe@rson
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RE: Negative Impact Of No-frills On Eastern Europe

Mon Oct 24, 2005 11:33 pm

You must put it all into context: low-cost airlines now enable millions more people to fly more often. The presence of no-frills airlines has, generally speaking, resulted in lower prices from the so-called traditional carriers, thus, again, enabling more people to fly more often. This combined, or even when considered singularly, is, in my view, a very welcome and very good achievement – which is certainly not offset by the sad and unfortunate fact that people will always get drunk, make fools of themselves and generally be irritating to locals. Low-cost airlines are, I believe, frequently treated as scapegoats.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
birdbrainz
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RE: Negative Impact Of No-frills On Eastern Europe

Tue Oct 25, 2005 12:29 am

The problem isn't the low-cost airlines, they just move the problem from one place to the other.

The bartenders in Prague and elsewhere need to prohibit selling alcohol to grossly intoxicated patrons, and the police need to have stiff fines and sufficient police force to deal with the drunks. It's really no different from grossly intoxicated people anywhere (like football games, etc). I was at the Czech GP motorcycle race, and the police were dealing with the drunks there just fine.

The message needs to be clear: Get pissed and misbehave: go to jail and pay a fine.

The police in Prague could ever put up a poster at Prague airport that indicates thier intolerance for such behaviour, much in the same way there are signs at Singapore Airport explaining their death penalty for drug smuggling.
A good landing is one you can walk away from. A great landing is if the aircraft can be flown again.
 
diesel1
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RE: Negative Impact Of No-frills On Eastern Europe

Tue Oct 25, 2005 12:52 am

Any of us can raise an issue like this... the clever ones amongst us can also suggest solutions, so Orion737, here's your opportunity  Wink

I think most of us agree that the behaviour of a certain proportion of the travellers to the destinations mentioned is unacceptable.

What should be done to fix this?
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oly720man
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RE: Negative Impact Of No-frills On Eastern Europe

Tue Oct 25, 2005 1:02 am

Quoting Diesel1 (Reply 30):
What should be done to fix this?

Change the British attitude to alcohol and the obsession that a good time can only be had by taking it in vast quantities.
wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
 
diesel1
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RE: Negative Impact Of No-frills On Eastern Europe

Tue Oct 25, 2005 1:52 am

Thanks Andrew... that's a good build (would have liked to have heard it from Orion737 though, but I'm sure he'll appreciate your help)- how should we do this then?
I don't like signatures...
 
adriaticflight
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RE: Negative Impact Of No-frills On Eastern Europe

Tue Oct 25, 2005 2:21 am

As prices rise in these cities stag parties will not find then such great places to go. Already there are parts of "Eastern Europe" (I personally prefer 'the East of Europe') that are quite expensive.
Also it must be remembered that Prague is a huge city that (no offense to Prague residents) has shamelessly and very successfully sold itself to tourism. Of all cities major in the East Europe, and i've been to all countries there except Albania and Romania, Prague is the one that is the most touristic. But tourists go for a reason it is a great city and now its a relativly rich city. Remember pre 1989 Prague...and compare it to today. I think a few dozen LCC 737s a day is a small price to pay for a city that has been transformed by tourism.

I want LCCs to open up more of Europe, the stag parties etc will come and go..lets hope places like Croatia, Serbia, Bulgaria and Romania (where the next LCC boom wil take place) will be nice a heavy handed with drunk Brits. A night in a Serbian prison will make any stag party want to climb back on board their 2euro flight home in a second.

Adriaticflight
 
7LBAC111
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RE: Negative Impact Of No-frills On Eastern Europe

Tue Oct 25, 2005 2:48 am

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 25):
Airlines like FR and EZY bring in these passengers so to say its none of their concern what their passengers do upon arrival is a bit naieve.

But it's not the airlines concern! They don't give a flying sh*t what you do when Granny gives you £50 to go away for the weekend, all they care about is that £50.

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 23):
It is all very well saying this isnt the fault of the LCCs, they must take some blame as before their arrival on the scene a weekend of drunken, loutish debauchery was out of the price range of most yobs.

So are Dan Air and Britannia to blame for the antics of British holidaymakers in Lloret de Mar? As Kiwiandrew says above,

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 26):
Two years ago I travelled through Borneo and saw some appallingly behaved Western tourists - using bad language , being very loud and drunk and wearing scanty clothing in a small Muslim village - funnily enough neither FR nor U2 fly to South East Asia - in fact one of the group had BA baggage tags on his backpack , so , are you suggesting that I should have written a letter of complaint to BA about the incident since it was one of their pax - after all they brought the pax to SE Asia - surely to say it's none of their concern what their pax do upon arrival is a bit naive

I would welcome your comments on this one Orion. I'd be very intrigued indeed, to know how you're beloved Full Service carrier are different.

7LBAC111
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
Aleksandar
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RE: Negative Impact Of No-frills On Eastern Europe

Tue Oct 25, 2005 3:41 am

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 4):
'low cost flights and stag parties and drinking, go hand in hand'

Do they? After all, I believe there are lots of young students that can now afford to go to such places.

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 7):
Yes, stop people from going to Eastern Europe to spend money thus providing no money for Eastern European countries to develop leaving them in a state of crapness.



Quoting Jmc757 (Reply 12):
The charter airlines of the 80's did it in Spain, now its just shifted. No difference really

I believe there are lots of wild Brtis in Spain, but usually during summer months.

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 14):
I'd blame the "destination" for not being able to attract more sohisticated crowd of tourists.



Quoting RedDragon (Reply 19):
It's the fault of the airlines, as Orion has clearly stated, for offering fares that are too accessible to the plebs and underclass of British society.

How can you do that? Ban people from buying a ticket? On the other hand, it is not impossible, especially if the police at the "destination" have records of those people. Being underclass doesn't necessary mean that they will make all sorts of problems. At least I hope it doesn't.

Unfortunately, not a single LCC flies to Belgrade and I beleive it's a shame for many reasons. In case they fly here, I guess some of those scallies would come here as well, but it would also make a big impact not on the local tourism, but on fare policies, too. For example, a week ago, I was looking for the chepest fare to Skopje and they don't go beyong 140US$. If you look at the map, you'll realize how expensive it is for such a short flight.

Back to the subject, I blame local police the most. After all, they are the ones who should arrest hooligans, take them to the court and possibly ban them from returning to their city for some time.
R-E-S-P-E-C-T
 
greenjet
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RE: Negative Impact Of No-frills On Eastern Europe

Tue Oct 25, 2005 3:48 am

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 6):
I feel sorry for many of these destinations in Eastern Europe which are full of British passengers all flying for £50 return on easyJet or Ryanair.

Estonian, Air Baltic and many more also offer cheap deals to these places. Yet oddly enough they don't get mention...

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 6):
They desperatley need the business but with that has come lewd behaviour, strip joints, lap dancing, happy hours, uriniating in public, harrassment of local women and the streets and hotels been full of gangs of lads on stag dos looking for a piss up on the cheap.

If you think that strip joints and prostitution have started as a result of the LCCs in these places then you're very naive. The Tallinn strip clubs are more likely to be frequented by Finnish businessmen than anyone else.

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 13):
While there is no doubting that airlines like Easyjet and Ryanair serving Eastern European cities has had positive economic impact in the hotel and the retail sector, we must also acknowledge the darker side.

Why just mention easyJet and Ryanair? Time and time again.

I have been to Tallinn twice and never seen puke on the streets, mooning or any sort of anti-social behaviour at all from 'British yobs'.

If these cities are experiencing such documented problems then it's because they're allowed to happen. In Dublin hen and stag parties are banned from a lot of bars and now the smoking ban is a nice deterrent too. If strip clubs and prostitution are such a problem then clamp down on them. No innuendo intended...
 
Orion737
Topic Author
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RE: Negative Impact Of No-frills On Eastern Europe

Tue Oct 25, 2005 4:22 am

I would like to point out that many of my comments and what prompted me to start the thread was I have just finished reading the book 'EasyJet by Lois Jones.

Many of the quotes were lifted from the text and if you read carefully I name the source. These range from a gentleman acting as a tour operator with a website offering to book packages for stag dos using low fare airlines and others from Czech hoteliers and Czech citizens.

I am sure the author did not make up these stories. I suggest those who are always quick to criticise me, read the book.

As for soloutions, many things can be done. Increased police prescene in these destinations, tighter controls on alcohol sale such as no encouraging happy hours and street drinking etc and tighter controls over lewd conduct with stiff penalties for offenders .
 
Aither
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RE: Negative Impact Of No-frills On Eastern Europe

Tue Oct 25, 2005 4:59 am

A very similar thing is happening in Asia when Japanese go to China for instance.

Some say this is due to over social constraints in their home country.

But we must not deny that low fares also tend to bring more people with low morality and bad behaviour.When in France the government organized holiday trips for people living in ghettos, though this is overall a great thing, nobody can deny it also generated more violence on the beaches.

Obviously i'm not saying that poor people = bad people... but well, you know what i mean.

[Edited 2005-10-24 22:05:15]
Never trust the obvious
 
7LBAC111
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RE: Negative Impact Of No-frills On Eastern Europe

Tue Oct 25, 2005 5:13 am

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 37):
I suggest those who are always quick to criticise me, read the book.

The book is one person's perspective, and I'd be simply amazed if the author of this book was trying to blame Easyjet in any way for the issues you raise. What I suspect is that the author was providing the 'negative' to lowcost business models (in this instnce aviation), and hoped people like you jump on the bandwagon. Well Orion, you took the bait, and I think you have made yourself look foolish.

Being someone who constantly criticises what the LCC boom has done for world air travel, it's ironic you don't acknowledge that your beloved charter carriers probably created this type of traveller in the first instance

7LBAC111
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
RedDragon
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RE: Negative Impact Of No-frills On Eastern Europe

Sat Oct 29, 2005 11:13 pm

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 37):
As for soloutions, many things can be done. Increased police prescene in these destinations, tighter controls on alcohol sale such as no encouraging happy hours and street drinking etc and tighter controls over lewd conduct with stiff penalties for offenders .

But none of these suggestions have anything to do with LCC ticket prices. Do you think that low prices are part of the problem or not, Orion? Surely if you do then you'd also think that something should be done to raise them, or otherwise provide a disincentive for the more undesirable passengers to use them? Or have you changed your mind?

If you could also post some thoughts on the trad charter carriers and their "responsibility" or lack of same in starting this trend, we'd all be grateful.

Rich

[Edited 2005-10-29 16:14:35]
 
Checo77
Posts: 1263
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RE: Negative Impact Of No-frills On Eastern Europe

Sun Oct 30, 2005 1:41 am

Quoting Orion737 (Thread starter):
Czech Republic

Its just a small correction: Czech Republic is NOT in Eastern Europen but in CENTRAL EUROPE along with Poland, Slovakia and Austria. Eastern Europe is Bulgaria, Rumania, Ucraine, etc.

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 3):
To make it even more absurd these clowns want to apply for hosting the 2016 Olympics... As if there wasn't enough debts to be repaid after the 8 years of soc-dems running the government. Because of three weeks of sports on TV we'll end up like Argentina couple years ago.

Hahaha. The olympics are an investment pal. They MAKE money!!!! If they invest 5billion dollars, they will get as a final result 15billion. This will help paying all the debts. It will centaily NOT make more debts.

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 14):
said before I'd blame the "destination" for not being able to attract more sohisticated crowd of tourists.

Prague is full of SOPHISTICATED tourists from around the world. Take as an example the Japanese tourist- they are so good, never scream, and all this. During the day, you don´t see any of these Brits, they emerge in the night. I blame this on the EXTREMELY low prices of alcohol in CZE. They should raise the taxes as for exmaple, in Finland. This action would stop Brits from coming to Prague and drink.

Regards,
Adam
Czech Boeing lover living in Lima
 
TheSorcerer
Posts: 1003
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RE: Negative Impact Of No-frills On Eastern Europe

Sun Oct 30, 2005 1:56 am

Quoting Meridian (Reply 9):
The local police should prosecute them as hard as they can, and then the airlines they flew in on should ban them for life



Quoting Jmc757 (Reply 12):
What they do is MANAGE it better

I agree with both of you, I don't see a problem with people getting wasted cheaply but there's no need for the rest of it.
The Spanish police don't take any crap from tourist (especially drunk brits)
when my dad was on holiday in Spain (back in the 80s) he was having a coffee in a cafe across the road from police station. Then a police car pulled up in front the cafe (because there was no parking spots in front of the station), they got out , opened the boot and dragged out this drunk British guy who could hardly walk and was shouting abuse. He fell over and the two policemen literally kicked him across the road and into the police station. LOL

Some of you might consider this to be terrible but I think it was justified, I mean do you think that guy is ever gonna do that again?

Thanks

The Sorcerer
ALITALIA,All Landings In Torino, All Luggage In Athens ;)
 
TheSorcerer
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RE: Negative Impact Of No-frills On Eastern Europe

Sun Oct 30, 2005 2:12 am

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 25):
Airlines like FR and EZY bring in these passengers so to say its none of their concern what their passengers do upon arrival is a bit naieve.

Orion it isn't their problem, the local police should introduce a zero tolerance policy and who gets a bad reputation? The British people do , not FR and U2.
What their passengers do doesn't effect them (apart from when they're on the A/C).

Do you propose that FR and U2 bring in a screening system to screen out the hooligans?

The Sorcerer
ALITALIA,All Landings In Torino, All Luggage In Athens ;)
 
egmcman
Posts: 729
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 6:28 pm

RE: Negative Impact Of No-frills On Eastern Europe

Sun Oct 30, 2005 4:50 am

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 23):
Without the low fares of EasyJet and Ryanair, such destinations like Riga, Prague and Tallinn were beyond reach of many of the lager louts. Before airlines like EasyJet starting flying to these places, your average 'binge drinker or sex mad hooligan hadn't even heard of Prague or Riga.

These destinations are finding themselves with a real problem on their hands. While they welcome that the LCCs have put these destinations on the map for the Brits and bring in hundreds of tourists each week to spend money, they are also shocked at the way some of these tourists behave

It's wrong to blame U2 & FR people like my parents a couple in their fifties fly U2 several times a year.

The people you are talking about are probably binge drinkers that cause trouble in pubs, bars & clubs in the UK. It's the fact that drink is cheap for them and they don't known when to stop drinking that's the problem.

egmcman
 
flylondon
Posts: 385
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RE: Negative Impact Of No-frills On Eastern Europe

Sun Oct 30, 2005 5:23 am

Quoting Orion737 (Thread starter):
The author interviewed many people in these host countries and they are appalled and shocked and quite resentful of hoardes of stag and hen parties, and lager louts behaving badly in their cities.

Maybe the author should interview the local people in Britain and document their reaction to the hoards of Eastern European prostitutes plying their wares in London?
 
by188b
Posts: 550
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RE: Negative Impact Of No-frills On Eastern Europe

Sun Oct 30, 2005 4:05 pm

and on the flip side, do all the tourists from eastern europe who come to Britain behave themselves?
next flights : BD LHR-TXL J, FR SXF-STN Y, SN BRU-LHR Y, MA LHR-BUD Y, BA BUD-LHR J, BA LCY-SNN-JFK J, BA JFK-LHR J, BA
 
adriaticflight
Posts: 405
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RE: Negative Impact Of No-frills On Eastern Europe

Mon Oct 31, 2005 2:28 am

Quoting FlyLondon (Reply 45):
hoards of Eastern European prostitutes plying their wares in London

Or maybe interview the sick men who visit them?

Quoting Checo77 (Reply 41):
Czech Republic is NOT in Eastern Europen but in CENTRAL EUROPE along with Poland, Slovakia and Austria

I would agree, but when people say Eastern Europe they mean 'formally Socialist country.' This is going to take years to change, and the term central Europe is a little vague.

Long live cheap flights to the East of Europe because they have done more than anyting to bring our small and fantastically beautiful contintnet together after 50years of division.
 
thestooges
Posts: 157
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RE: Negative Impact Of No-frills On Eastern Europe

Mon Oct 31, 2005 6:03 am

Having worked in youth hostels in both Amsterdam and Sydney, cities that both recieve a very large amount of drunken disruptive British tourists, I am well aware with the problems that these groups of people cause.

They are extremely difficult to deal with and weed out. I was in two different situations in the hostel in Amsterdam where I almost got beat up by two very large groups of very disorderly British tourists, and there was another situation where the police had to come by to arrest a British man as he had kicked in the door of a cab. In the hostel in Sydney we had inumerous problems with long staying young British men who were notorious for causing fights, smoking dope etc. One of them even threatened to pull me over the reception desk and beat the crap out of me. He finally got kicked out when he gave another Brit a very large black eye.

It can very hard to deal with these groups, they can seem fine when sober but when intoxicated can be real trouble. The hostel in Amsterdam had a policy against letting groups like this stay there, but when they make a reservation over the internet its hard to turn them away when they arrive and we realize exactly what were dealing with.

I really think that the aggressiveness of drunken Brits is very much unmatched by the locals of the country they travel to, and I think that perhaps these Eastern European countries that have been opened up due to low fare carriers are now realizing what their dealing with. Amsterdam and Sydney have always had this crowd visiting so to some extent are prepared.

The problem is that Brit tourists are always loaded, the pound is of course the best performing currency worldwide, so wherever they go theyve got more than enough money to blow. The management of the hostel in Sydney much to my dismay turned a very blind eye to the distruptive British long termers, because they were giving us a lot of money. However it was mostly me and not the management who had to deal with the problems they caused, one reason I quit soon after.

Prague I think is pretty much whoring itself for a quick tourist dollar, and what can they expect but this outcome.

Sure a lot of people will be counting the money they get from these Brits and smiling but others, like me, will have to be the ones dealing with these hooligans and wont be very happy about it. Im sure many locals in Prague and Tallin feel the same.
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition !!
 
cornish
Posts: 7651
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RE: Negative Impact Of No-frills On Eastern Europe

Tue Nov 01, 2005 1:06 am

Hmmmm interesting topic - and one that i can see from the perspective of a brit and someone who used to live in one of these destinations - Budapest.

Firstly - whenever anything new comes along there wil lalways be positives and negatives. While people in those cities mentioned might not like the lager lout tourists, they most certainly will enjoy taking advantage fo the cheap flights they can get to Western European destinations. Unlike the LCC flights to the Med - this market is much more two way in its originating traffic.

Blaming the LCCs is frankly ridiculous however. Plenty of well off city boys do the lager tours too - those who can afford to fly full service on BA. To just say its only those who are from poor backgrounds taking advantage of cheap flights is rubbish.

Also the LCCs have brought far more non-binge drinking regular tourists to the likes of Prague than drunks. U2 is also the second biggest operator at PRG - thats a hell of a lot of revenue for the airport authorities too.

I don't deny that there are people like this - of course there are. While the beer is cheap they're going to get attracted to those sorts of places. As mentioned the only way around that is to make the beer prohibitively expensive - a la Scandinavia. But that wouldn't be popular for the locals. I remember in 1993 talking politics to some hungarian friends around the time of the election. They couldn't understand the concept of taxing booze and fags - "Why would any govt do that" they asked "surely they'd get voted straight out of office" I did try pointing out that people did have other priorities when it came to voting  Wink

As for blaming the sex trade on LCCs and stag parties - sorry but thats quite wrong. Back in the mid-90s Hungary for example had a MAJOR sex trade. What drove that was Austrian and German businessmen and that's still the case. You'd see all the prostitutes lined up on the main road out of Vienna once you got into Hungary. and I should know, "Cornish does the Carpathians" was quite a cult porn classic back in the mid 90s  Wink

Blame the sex trade more on the Russian and Ukrainian mafia than the stag parties.
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work