a346
Posts: 110
Joined: Tue May 11, 2004 10:15 am

News On The A380 In FRA!

Mon Oct 24, 2005 9:03 pm

I already did a search and couldn't find anything about it.
So here are my latest facts I know:

- Landing: Oct.,29th approx. 9 a.m.

- Only people wit an special I.D. will have access to the A380 or are able to get close to it. The area around is widely closed.

- For all of those who want to follow the landing live, there will be an area on the airport on the south apron, across the Terminal 2. You can get there from designated parking areas, only with a shuttle bus. There is no way to see the landing from the arriving Terminals. This area to view the landing will be opened at 5 a.m. and there will be breakfast too.

- Both viewing Decks will be closed, and police won't tolerate parking cars on the Bundestraße and Autobahn.

So this is as much information as I could get from airport employees and it is also on the Fraport homepage ( http://www.fraport.de/cms/press/dok/...irbus_a380_kommt_landung_vom_s.htm )

Hope this helps a little bit.

Maybe we can organize a kind a of a meeting place for Saturday here.
So I am gonna be there for sure. I just don't know how early I should come.

See you sat
 
macc
Posts: 893
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2004 8:11 pm

News On The A380 In FRA!

Mon Oct 24, 2005 9:11 pm

I will fly through FRA on 27.10 and 1.11. and wont be able to follow any news coverage in between. so I count on you guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

please post any vidoes about this you find  Smile
I exchanged political frustration with sexual boredom. better spoil a girl than the world
 
B742
Posts: 3559
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News On The A380 In FRA!

Mon Oct 24, 2005 9:13 pm

Great news!  Smile

What aircraft will be in FRA?

Will it feature the Airbus or eurowhite colours?

Rob!  wave 
 
Sabena332
Posts: 14938
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 3:57 am

News On The A380 In FRA!

Mon Oct 24, 2005 9:15 pm

Quoting A346 (Thread starter):
Only people wit an special I.D. will have access to the A380 or are able to get close to it. The area around is widely closed.



Quoting A346 (Thread starter):
There is no way to see the landing from the arriving Terminals.

Looks like the A380 is a super, ultra, mega confidential thing.  Yeah sure

Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
TriStar500
Posts: 4411
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News On The A380 In FRA!

Mon Oct 24, 2005 9:28 pm

I won't be able to access the apron around the A380 with my "yellow level" Fraport ID card? That would be highly unusual...
Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
 
a346
Posts: 110
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News On The A380 In FRA!

Mon Oct 24, 2005 9:37 pm

TriStar500,

I really don't know how it is on the apron. I just know with my "blue level" I.D. card I probably won't be able to get near.
I also think if you have access to the Gates, with your I.D. card you should be able to see the A380.
In my opinion I think you should be able to have access. But I think they will have an extra barrier or something close to the A380.
I am sorry if I am lacking any information but this all I know.
But if you work at the airport, there is lots of information on the intranet.
 
jush
Posts: 1495
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News On The A380 In FRA!

Mon Oct 24, 2005 9:38 pm

Yeah why is all that stuff?
Shitty thing is coming to my land and i'm can barely see it cause airbus is making a fuzz out of it. Or is it Fraport that is doing this confidentiality thing???

Regards
jush
There is one problem with airbus. Though their products are engineering marvels they lack passion, completely.
 
Thorben
Posts: 2713
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News On The A380 In FRA!

Mon Oct 24, 2005 9:58 pm

Quoting Jush (Reply 6):
Shitty thing is coming to my land and i'm can barely see it cause airbus is making a fuzz out of it. Or is it Fraport that is doing this confidentiality thing???

Don't forget in which state Frankfurt is and which people are prime minister and interior minister there.
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011
 
TriStar500
Posts: 4411
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News On The A380 In FRA!

Mon Oct 24, 2005 10:33 pm

Also, the A380 is in FRA not for some publicity show, but because of handling/ taxying and gate positioning tests. If people crowd at the gate, it will be very difficult to conduct all the tests within the very limited time Fraport has.

I can still remember the inaugural A346 flight to FRA - you wouldn't believe, how many Fraport coworkers "accidently" popped up next to the gate when the aircraft arrived on that Saturday (myself included of course). Big grin
Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
 
Thorben
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News On The A380 In FRA!

Mon Oct 24, 2005 10:47 pm

Anybody remember the Queen Mary 2 in Hamburg? Half a million people where there.

http://www.spiegel.de/reise/metropolen/0,1518,367740,00.html
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011
 
matt24wigan
Posts: 91
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News On The A380 In FRA!

Mon Oct 24, 2005 11:12 pm

they have done modifications at singapore for the a380, including new airbridges
matt from wigan in lancashire
 
na
Posts: 9129
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 1999 3:52 am

News On The A380 In FRA!

Tue Oct 25, 2005 12:32 am

Oh yeah, the Queen Mary2. This ship draws crowds wherever whenever. I was in Southampton last year when it came in from New York in tandem with the QE2. Thousands of people - in fog. Later, when the QE2 left and passed her giant successor, it brightened up and the banks of the Solent were full of people.

I guess, FRA authorities are massively afraid of an overwhelming attraction of the A380, fearing traffic jams and blocked access roads. I bet they pray for appalling weather. The viewing spots at either Startbahn West or the US recreation area will be overcrowded for sure.
 
rootsair
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News On The A380 In FRA!

Tue Oct 25, 2005 12:35 am

Quoting B742 (Reply 2):
Will it feature the Airbus or eurowhite colours?

I guess Airbus colors are pretty much eurowhite anyways
A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
 
JJMNGR
Posts: 924
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News On The A380 In FRA!

Tue Oct 25, 2005 12:36 am

Can anyone tell me till when it will be in FRA as I am flying to FRA on the 29 and will be arriving early in the morning 30th....
 
jush
Posts: 1495
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RE:!news! On The A380 In FRA

Tue Oct 25, 2005 12:42 am

I think it will leave the very same day it arrived.

Regards
jush
There is one problem with airbus. Though their products are engineering marvels they lack passion, completely.
 
na
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RE: News On The A380 In FRA!

Tue Oct 25, 2005 12:50 am

Last I heard is that the A380 will leave sunday, 8 in the morning (I don´t know if the time is changed from summer to standard this weekend, if not it won´t be very bright at that time in the morning!).
 
Sabena332
Posts: 14938
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 3:57 am

RE: News On The A380 In FRA!

Tue Oct 25, 2005 12:54 am

Quoting NA (Reply 15):
(I don´t know if the time is changed from summer to standard this weekend, if not it won´t be very bright at that time in the morning!).

The time will be changed from summer to standard on Sunday.

Whoohooo, one hour more for boozing in the night from Saturday to Sunday. 

Patrick

[Edited 2005-10-24 17:55:03]
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
dazeflight
Posts: 481
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RE: News On The A380 In FRA!

Tue Oct 25, 2005 1:02 am

Quoting Matt24wigan (Reply 10):
they have done modifications at singapore for the a380, including new airbridges

Thank you. That's waht everybody wanted to know.  duck 
 
matt24wigan
Posts: 91
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RE: News On The A380 In FRA!

Tue Oct 25, 2005 1:40 am

various other modifications as well m8
matt from wigan in lancashire
 
airbusA346
Posts: 7284
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RE: News On The A380 In FRA!

Tue Oct 25, 2005 4:27 am

Is there any ideas what some mods might be at the gate.

Photos

FRA
SIN
etc


Tom.
Tom Walker '086' First Officer of a A318/A319 for Air Lambert - Hours Flown: 17 hour 05 minutes (last updated 24/12/05).
 
TheSonntag
Posts: 4296
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RE: News On The A380 In FRA!

Tue Oct 25, 2005 4:47 am

Check out this website about a special programme dealing with the A380 arrival. The oversized A380 looks just great !

http://www.hr-online.de/website/specials/airbus_a380/index.jsp
 
AlitaliaMD11
Posts: 3704
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RE: News On The A380 In FRA!

Tue Oct 25, 2005 6:14 am

Quoting B742 (Reply 2):
What aircraft will be in FRA?

Most likely F-WWOW.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © John Farrington - FlightLineImages



If I still lived in Madrid I would deffitenley fly up to FRA to see it landing! A lass, I now live back in New York Sad
No Vueling No Party
 
svenvdm
Posts: 199
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RE: News On The A380 In FRA!

Tue Oct 25, 2005 7:31 am

Is it possible to see planes docking at Terminal 2 from the McDonald´s viewing/dining area in T2? Is it going to be closed when it lands at 9am? Probably not, because McD is not going to accept that, right?
 
Mandrake
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 9:27 am

RE: News On The A380 In FRA!

Tue Oct 25, 2005 11:15 am

Dang!! While the BIG BIRD is landing in Sydney on Nov.16, I will be in YVR!

Mandrake
Everything nice has its price, and the nicer, the pricier.
 
geizistgeil
Posts: 138
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RE: News On The A380 In FRA!

Tue Oct 25, 2005 5:38 pm

Quoting SvenvdM (Reply 22):
Is it possible to see planes docking at Terminal 2 from the McDonald´s viewing/dining area in T2? Is it going to be closed when it lands at 9am? Probably not, because McD is not going to accept that, right?

I just read that there will be a VIP-Event at the Food-Plaza in Terminal 2, that´s just where McD is also located. So I guess, FraPort has got a deal with McD to have the big windows on their own.
BUT, there is a chance to be invited to this event, just fill out this form from a local radio station and you could be the lucky one, who could see the a/c from near:

The lucky draw

Just reduced my chance to win  psst , but perhaps some other a.netter will have luck and could post cool photos next week  bigthumbsup 
"If the Wright brothers were alive today. Wilbur would have to fire Orville to reduce costs" (H. Kelleher)
 
flyingzacko
Posts: 572
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RE: News On The A380 In FRA!

Tue Oct 25, 2005 7:27 pm

So what about the spot right next to the A5, where you can shoot the 25 Approach. Is that going to be open or not, cus that's where I wanted to go assuming the winds will be favorable.

Cheers,
Sebastian
Canon 40D + 24-70 f/2.8 L + 70-200 f/4 L + Speedlite 430EX
 
flyinTLow
Posts: 455
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 10:40 pm

RE: News On The A380 In FRA!

Tue Oct 25, 2005 7:45 pm

Quoting TriStar500 (Reply 4):
I won't be able to access the apron around the A380 with my "yellow level" Fraport ID card? That would be highly unusual...

I have to work on the ramp on saturday (the cruelty in that is unbearable *g*) and all I have is just a regular yellow ID and I haven't heard of any special IDs for saturday or anything. So you will definitly have access to the apron. And the A380 will be on E9 for sure (the other gates are not yet capable of taking the A380) but the other Terminal 2 positions are way to precious to just completly lock off that end of the airport. So I am quite confident to get rather close to that beast!

Cheers,
Thilo
- When dreams take flight, follow them -
 
ZRH
Posts: 4371
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 1999 11:32 pm

RE: News On The A380 In FRA!

Tue Oct 25, 2005 8:22 pm

Quoting Jush (Reply 6):
Shitty thing is coming to my land and i'm can barely see it cause airbus is making a fuzz out of it. Or is it Fraport that is doing this confidentiality thing???

This is not Airbus which makes a fuzz out of it because of confidentiality. It is rather Fraport, they are simply afraid that too many people will come and mess up the airport. Besides the A 380 the airport has to run normally.
 
fraport
Posts: 127
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2005 6:45 am

RE: News On The A380 In FRA!

Tue Oct 25, 2005 9:07 pm

Quoting ZRH (Reply 27):
This is not Airbus which makes a fuzz out of it because of confidentiality. It is rather Fraport, they are simply afraid that too many people will come and mess up the airport. Besides the A 380 the airport has to run normally.

Right and wrong. It IS Airbus that makes a fuss because they don't wish any troubles during the tests. I've some connections to the department at Fraport which organizes the tests and they had to commit that the test crews won't be disturbed. On the other side, Fraport also has no interest that this event becomes embarrassing for them because they can't handle the run on the airport by all those spotters. After all it's not intended as an airshow but as a test.
 
flyinTLow
Posts: 455
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 10:40 pm

RE: News On The A380 In FRA!

Tue Oct 25, 2005 9:45 pm

Quoting Fraport (Reply 28):
On the other side, Fraport also has no interest that this event becomes embarrassing for them because they can't handle the run on the airport by all those spotters. After all it's not intended as an airshow but as a test.

When the A380 overflew Hamburg, there were 150000 people there watching that spectacle. Now just imagine what is going to happen in Frankfurt now that the A380 is coming in for a landing. I don't think there is any larger airport in this world that will be capable of handing such an event with such an amount of people watching and not have it influence the regular schedules. So all they are trying to do is get the people away to a place where their influence will be the smallest. Just imagine 30000 people standing in line to get onto the visitor terrace. The line would totally block the entire check-in area. Just as an example...

Cheers,
Thilo
- When dreams take flight, follow them -
 
flyingzacko
Posts: 572
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RE: News On The A380 In FRA!

Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:19 pm

Grüß dich Low, heute abend mal wieder telefonieren.
So what about that little bicycle trail next to the A5? I will be able to go there won't I? I probably just gotta get there early enough so I can find a parking spot. What time are you working? 5:30ish?

Cheers,
Zacko
Canon 40D + 24-70 f/2.8 L + 70-200 f/4 L + Speedlite 430EX
 
fraport
Posts: 127
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2005 6:45 am

RE: News On The A380 In FRA!

Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:19 pm

Quoting FlyinTLow (Reply 29):
When the A380 overflew Hamburg, there were 150000 people there watching that spectacle. Now just imagine what is going to happen in Frankfurt now that the A380 is coming in for a landing. I don't think there is any larger airport in this world that will be capable of handing such an event with such an amount of people watching and not have it influence the regular schedules. So all they are trying to do is get the people away to a place where their influence will be the smallest. Just imagine 30000 people standing in line to get onto the visitor terrace. The line would totally block the entire check-in area. Just as an example...

You're absolutely right. Maybe I made my sentence a little bit misleading. I meant that it WOULD be embarrassing IF they could not handle it. But by bunching all the people in the south they seem to do it right. So I agree with you.
 
flyingzacko
Posts: 572
Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 4:46 am

RE: News On The A380 In FRA!

Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:45 pm

Quoting Fraport (Reply 31):
But by bunching all the people in the south they seem to do it right.

Where is the "south" supposed to be? The south of the airport is the USAF base.

Cheers,
Sebastian
Canon 40D + 24-70 f/2.8 L + 70-200 f/4 L + Speedlite 430EX
 
fraport
Posts: 127
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2005 6:45 am

RE: News On The A380 In FRA!

Tue Oct 25, 2005 11:32 pm

Quoting FlyingZacko (Reply 32):
The south of the airport is the USAF base.

The South of the airport WAS the USAF base. As far as I know it's gonna be exactly that area.
 
flyingzacko
Posts: 572
Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 4:46 am

RE: News On The A380 In FRA!

Tue Oct 25, 2005 11:43 pm

Quoting Fraport (Reply 33):

Oh I see, sorry if this has been said before but how do you get there?

Cheers,
Sebastian
Canon 40D + 24-70 f/2.8 L + 70-200 f/4 L + Speedlite 430EX
 
flyAUA
Posts: 4287
Joined: Wed May 25, 2005 3:12 am

RE: News On The A380 In FRA!

Tue Oct 25, 2005 11:51 pm

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 16):
The time will be changed from summer to standard on Sunday.

Whoohooo, one hour more for boozing in the night from Saturday to Sunday.

Woooohooooo! I completely forgot. I guess Austria will have the same this weekend then if you have it in Germany.

Would love to come see the A380 again in FRA (and I would have if I were here) but I am going home this weekend. I will follow it on the ATC frequency though if I am not still in bed  Wink
Not drinking, also isn't a solution!
 
NumberTwelve
Posts: 1393
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RE: News On The A380 In FRA!

Wed Oct 26, 2005 12:15 am

I think there will be lots of traffic jam - FRA has to work fine, because other air traffic has to run as usual. The a380 is not a weak headed president, so the air traffic cant be stopped Sad
Anyway, I have an invitation from an airline who have an office with a window to the south (in Terminal 2). Guess this will be the best place. The only problem will be : how to get to the airport during that chaos?
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Airboeing
Posts: 212
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2005 8:32 pm

RE: News On The A380 In FRA!

Wed Oct 26, 2005 12:19 am

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 21):
If I still lived in Madrid I would deffitenley fly up to FRA to see it landing

Wouldn't it been easier to see her in Toulouse then ?
Some times my English is purely fonatiks...
 
NumberTwelve
Posts: 1393
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 8:57 pm

RE: News On The A380 In FRA!

Wed Oct 26, 2005 2:36 am

Sure, Airboeing - on the other hand, FRA visit also is "unique":
they test ground handling like air bridges etc.
In FRA 3 air bridges are planned, 2 for lower, 1 for upper deck.

3 air bridges for 550 passengers means: 1 airbridge for 150 pax.

I think passengers in other airports would be happy if they have this relation - heared that in some countries/airports, 747's will be boarded via 1 door/bridge.
So i dont wonder when i hear people whining: it takes too long time for boarding a 380.

At the moment there is a 380 fever in FRA - great to see it, great atmosphere.
signature censored by admin - so check my profile
 
Sabena332
Posts: 14938
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 3:57 am

RE: News On The A380 In FRA!

Wed Oct 26, 2005 2:53 am

Quoting FlyAUA (Reply 35):
Woooohooooo! I completely forgot. I guess Austria will have the same this weekend then if you have it in Germany.

Yes, the whole EU is changing from summer to standard time next weekend.

I was thinking about coming to FRA on Saturday but I am not happy with three points:

1. I will be at the football stadium on Friday = a lot of alcohol

2. The A380 is arriving way too early = I have to get up early

3. There is only one airline flying between DUS and FRA = Lufthansa

So when I think about getting up early while I had a lot of drinks in the night before and that I even have to fly Lufthansa in this condition, well.... that makes me want to puke.

Result: I will stay in bed and remember the A380 flight display at Le Bourget. Big grin

Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
Thorben
Posts: 2713
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2005 10:29 pm

RE: News On The A380 In FRA!

Wed Oct 26, 2005 3:03 am

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 39):
1. I will be at the football stadium on Friday = a lot of alcohol

You'll need a lot of alcohol when your glorious team loses against Paderborn. And flying Sh*thansa after your team loses, you have a big head, and got up too early? Not worth it if you have already seen the A380 in real life.

I won't come either, my protest against the local government in Hessen. I'll wait until it comes to TXL.

I hope you people who go there will make a lot of pictures.
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011
 
TheSonntag
Posts: 4296
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:23 pm

RE: News On The A380 In FRA!

Wed Oct 26, 2005 3:14 am

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 39):
airline flying between DUS and FRA = Lufthansa

Take the train or fly via Berlin with DBA!!!
 
Sabena332
Posts: 14938
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 3:57 am

RE: News On The A380 In FRA!

Wed Oct 26, 2005 3:14 am

Quoting Thorben (Reply 40):
You'll need a lot of alcohol when your glorious team loses against Paderborn.

This will be a friggin interesting game since both Bochum and Paderborn are doing well lately. But I have no doubt, Bochum will win Friday night, it's time for another last-minute goal. Big grin

Quoting Thorben (Reply 40):
I won't come either, my protest against the local government in Hessen.

Understandable!

Quoting Thorben (Reply 40):
I hope you people who go there will make a lot of pictures.

I am also looking forward to many pictures!

Patrick

PS: Eintracht Frankfurt is currently whipping Schalke's ass. I am sure that Fraport will be plased since they are the main sponsor of the Eintracht.
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
Thorben
Posts: 2713
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2005 10:29 pm

RE: News On The A380 In FRA!

Wed Oct 26, 2005 3:15 am

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 41):
Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 39):
airline flying between DUS and FRA = Lufthansa


Take the train or fly via Berlin with DBA!!!

Or fly via DXB with EK.
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011
 
Airboeing
Posts: 212
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2005 8:32 pm

RE: News On The A380 In FRA!

Wed Oct 26, 2005 3:21 am

Quoting NumberTwelve (Reply 38):
they test ground handling like air bridges etc.
In FRA 3 air bridges are planned, 2 for lower, 1 for upper deck.

Yeah this sounds great to see indeed... Hope there'll be a lot of pics !

Quoting NumberTwelve (Reply 38):
At the moment there is a 380 fever in FRA - great to see it, great atmosphere.

And I thank you all for sharing it here  Smile
Some times my English is purely fonatiks...
 
Sabena332
Posts: 14938
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 3:57 am

RE: News On The A380 In FRA!

Wed Oct 26, 2005 3:21 am

Quoting Thorben (Reply 43):
Or fly via DXB with EK.

Impossible, I had to fly to DXB on Friday and I would miss the football game.  Wink

Seriously, a few months ago I flew HAM-DUS via CDG.

Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
a346
Posts: 110
Joined: Tue May 11, 2004 10:15 am

RE: News On The A380 In FRA!

Wed Oct 26, 2005 5:35 am

I got another link with more info....
http://www.fraport.de/cms/a380/dokbin/70/70171.programm_a380@de.pdf

Anyone with a "blue level" Airport I.D. want to try to get close to the aircraft after the party on the south apron ends?
 
flyAUA
Posts: 4287
Joined: Wed May 25, 2005 3:12 am

RE: News On The A380 In FRA!

Wed Oct 26, 2005 5:21 pm

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 39):
So when I think about getting up early while I had a lot of drinks in the night before and that I even have to fly Lufthansa in this condition, well.... that makes me want to puke.

Result: I will stay in bed and remember the A380 flight display at Le Bourget.

I wholeheartedly support your decision Patrick. Would have done the same myself Big grin

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 45):
Seriously, a few months ago I flew HAM-DUS via CDG.

Wow, and I thought I was crazy for doing VIE-GVA via CDG  Silly
Not drinking, also isn't a solution!
 
flyinTLow
Posts: 455
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 10:40 pm

RE: News On The A380 In FRA!

Wed Oct 26, 2005 7:14 pm

Quoting FlyingZacko (Reply 30):
Gr�� dich Low, heute abend mal wieder telefonieren.
So what about that little bicycle trail next to the A5? I will be able to go there won't I? I probably just gotta get there early enough so I can find a parking spot. What time are you working? 5:30ish?

Sorry Zacko, totally missed your message there. Yeah, working the 5:30 shift. More than welcome to stop by the night before, and I'll take you to the airport the next morning then. We'll talk on the phone!

Cheers,
Thilo
- When dreams take flight, follow them -
 
cymro
Posts: 87
Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 10:51 pm

RE: News On The A380 In FRA!

Wed Oct 26, 2005 7:30 pm

Quoting FlyinTLow (Reply 29):
When the A380 overflew Hamburg, there were 150000 people there watching that spectacle

Sorry to be a bit off topic but when did the A380 fly over Hamburg? Was it over the Airbus factory for the workers?