dptMAN
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Manchester UK News

Tue Oct 25, 2005 1:57 am

Well, I know someone else started this link a few weeks ago, so i thought i would finish or even carry on the trend of the best airport in the North-west. Any news on the new Etihad service to Abu Dhabi, and the apparent UA IAD service?

Thanks in advance.
 
whitehatter
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RE: Manchester UK News

Tue Oct 25, 2005 2:04 am

Slot conference is imminent so wait for the news.
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BigOrange
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RE: Manchester UK News

Tue Oct 25, 2005 2:10 am

I doubt we'll see UA to IAD.

They seem to be cutting back on International routes and will be down to 1 a day on LHR-JFK.
 
dptMAN
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RE: Manchester UK News

Tue Oct 25, 2005 2:15 am

Shame about IAD services out of MAN. I flew BD to IAD in February, great service, exept a few hours delay, that didnt bother me as the service onboard was first class. Bearing in mind i was in economy. BD need to get there act together and re-instate their IAD service. Surely UA will have free slots at IAD due to cutbacks of the LHR service.

Thanks for all your replies by the way.
 
whitehatter
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RE: Manchester UK News

Tue Oct 25, 2005 2:16 am

Quoting BigOrange (Reply 2):
I doubt we'll see UA to IAD.

Looking more than possible at the moment.

The loads were sufficient for a 763 but a bit too much for BD's underpromoted A332 service. UA could make a go of it as the traffic is connecting.

If so they would be on a route with no competition after all, which is more than can be said for LHR which is not peofrming well for them.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
dptMAN
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RE: Manchester UK News

Tue Oct 25, 2005 2:24 am

Seems like a new IAD service out of MAN is a none starter. I heard that UA officials were in MAN the other week, would this be UA taking an interest in future services out of MAN to the USA.
 
mhodgson
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RE: Manchester UK News

Tue Oct 25, 2005 2:24 am

UA would do well to note the success of some of the other Majors (CO, AA, US; as well as DL in the future perhaps) in moving to airports like MAN.

I can see them doing it. It is competition free, and they will also have spare aircraft as a result of their dropping of Trans Atlantic services. And I can't see BD moving back on to the route, as many people would see them as a joke, and could perhaps be concerned about booking due to the messing about BD have previously done with scheduling.
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StarGoldLHR
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RE: Manchester UK News

Tue Oct 25, 2005 4:30 am

BD is a joke.

I used to be BD StarSilver and UA StarGold at the same time.
I'm dropping BD starsilver, programs a joke, airlines gone to hell and what used to be superb US Service from MAN became the ryanair of the atlantic with that 757.


To me best hope would be the following:

BD bought by VS and renamed Chav-Air and operates as a feeder for VS
LH/SAS make inroads to UK operations with MAN hub using their BD Sales money
UA matches LH at MAN with Atlantic operations

Ryanair changes to a seaboat plane service, by removing wheels and moving all hubs to sea ports inorder to save carrying the weight of wheels in the aircraft. Additiionally solar panels are added to the wings to provide electricity and a window made openable to dispense with the AC
So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
 
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Crosswind
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RE: Manchester UK News

Tue Oct 25, 2005 4:39 am

Quoting DptMAN (Reply 3):
BD need to get there act together and re-instate their IAD service. Surely UA will have free slots at IAD due to cutbacks of the LHR service.



Quoting Mhodgson (Reply 6):
UA would do well to note the success of some of the other Majors (CO, AA, US; as well as DL in the future perhaps) in moving to airports like MAN.

Fact is though that the MAN-IAD and MAN-ORD routes were/are joint operations between bmi and United. Under the original agreement between United and bmi for both services, United paid contributions towards bmi's operating costs and guaranteed a certain number of seats per flight.

Far more than a simple BD/UA codeshare, bmi's MAN-IAD/ORD routes started out as a true joint service agreement (in a similar manner to the BA/QF agreement on UK-Australia flights) with extensive involvement from United.

The MAN-IAD route was always the weaker route, even given American Airlines' direct competition on the MAN-ORD route - IAD has always been marginal and the first one to be seasonally dropped, operated at reduced frequency and finally downgraded to a 757. Given United's close involvement in the Manchester routes they will be perfectly well aware of the real financial performance and potential of MAN-IAD.

People often forget how different most MAN-USA services are from those from London in that most Manchester flights depend on connecting traffic to onward destinations via strong US hubs. Continental's oft quoted figure is that around 70% of their MAN-EWR passengers transfer onto connecting flights, far higher than you'll generally find on London routes. Viewed in that light although MAN-IAD had no direct competition, in reality it was competing with MAN-ORD/EWR/PHL/ATL and to a much lesser extent JFK/MCO/BOS for exactly the same traffic. BA's MAN-JFK and AA's MAN-BOS are the only year round routes that survive primarily on O&D traffic, plus Virgin's quasi-charter service MAN-MCO.

I doubt with their financial problems and the fact that they are scaling back Trans-Atlantic flights - particularly from Washington which underperforms as a hub, that a MAN-IAD flight holds much interest for them. Don't forget that United have scaled back much of their IAD operation over the past few years, and lost a lot of their regional feed when ASA became Independence Air and decided end their United Express operation. Dulles just isn't as attractive as a hub as it once was - most United destinations offer just as good, if not better, connections from via Chicago.

As a result the ORD route continues to perform, and the IAD route has been on life-support since well before the Icelandair 757 turned up. I think we can be fairly certain that if/when bmi move their last A330 down to LHR that United will immediately pick up the MAN-ORD route, to protect the strong feed at their largest hub.

Regards
CROSSWIND
 
David_itl
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RE: Manchester UK News

Tue Oct 25, 2005 7:11 am

Quoting Crosswind (Reply 8):
Continental's oft quoted figure is that around 70% of their MAN-EWR passengers transfer onto connecting flights, far higher than you'll generally find on London routes

Just refreshed my mind with the CAA survey data from 2003. It shows:
BA to JFK 89% ptp, CO to EWR 50% ptp, DL to ATL 22% ptp, BD to IAD 40% ptp, AA to ORD 18% ptp, BD to ORD 15% ptp, US to PHL 20% ptp.

where ptp = point-to-point. I'm sure we'll find out in due course what the 2004/2005 figures are looking like, especially with CO having gone double daily to presumably increase the range of connections available.

David
 
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Crosswind
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RE: Manchester UK News

Tue Oct 25, 2005 7:52 am

David,
Interesting figures...

I'm amazed that the bmi MAN-IAD was 40% PTP though! The 70% figure I quoted for Continental was from their initial operations at Manchester in 1995/6. Like you I'd guess that Continental's proportion of point-to-point passengers for their flights might be lower this year now that capacity has been increased with the double-daily flight.

Also there's maybe more of a market for Delta's MAN-JFK flights next year than I thought, but is this not the 4th time a US carrier has had a crack at the MAN-JFK route? AA twice and DL once before...

Also will be interesting to see if more people are now travelling beyond JFK using the BA/AA alliance...

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CROSSWIND
 
BMIbaby733
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RE: Manchester UK News

Tue Oct 25, 2005 8:50 am

LMFAO!!!! @ STARGOLD LHR!!!!!
 
dptMAN
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RE: Manchester UK News

Tue Oct 25, 2005 4:54 pm

Thanks again for all you replies.
I hear on the Manchester Airport website that Iceland Air are to operate a twice weekly (Monday & Friday) operation from MAN to KEF with a 752.

Icelandair
FI 440 Keflavik Int'l (KEF), Reykjavik, Iceland 17:30
Manchester Int'l (MAN), Manchester, United Kingdom 21:05
Non-stop
752 2:35 Monday
Friday

Icelandair
FI 441 Manchester Int'l (MAN), Manchester, United Kingdom 22:05
Keflavik Int'l (KEF), Reykjavik, Iceland 23:35
Non-stop
752 2:30 Monday
Friday
Source: Iceland Air Website

Surely is there enough demand for this service to be run on such a large aircraft, i would have expected also for Iceland Express to jump in there first. However Iceland Air do operate and offer connection services to their destinationsa in the US. Maybe now we shall see some competition on the route from Iceland Express or even our beloved 'BD'!!!!!

[Edited 2005-10-25 09:59:22]
 
gayrugbyman
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RE: Manchester UK News

Tue Oct 25, 2005 5:17 pm

And totally useless for transatlantic traffic! Thanks, Icelandair!
 
F27XXX
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RE: Manchester UK News

Tue Oct 25, 2005 5:22 pm

Quoting GayrugbyMAN (Reply 13):
And totally useless for transatlantic traffic! Thanks, Icelandair!

Do try a trip up to Reykjavik some time tho if you can. Its a wild city with a fun night life ...winkwink .....  yes  !
Tony
I'M BAAAAAAAACK!
 
gayrugbyman
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RE: Manchester UK News

Tue Oct 25, 2005 5:41 pm

Yes, I have heard they have nicknamed it Gaykjavik!
 
ba757
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RE: Manchester UK News

Tue Oct 25, 2005 5:44 pm

Quoting GayrugbyMAN (Reply 13):
And totally useless for transatlantic traffic! Thanks, Icelandair!

Don't they give you a free stop over in Iceland or did I totally imagine that?

It was always tempting to take them to JFK with the stop in KEF, but then I think the AMS-JFK KL T7 is a bit better.

I fancy Iceland though, might have to look into the possibility of an overnight trip there.

Adam
 
F27XXX
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RE: Manchester UK News

Tue Oct 25, 2005 5:48 pm

Quoting GayrugbyMAN (Reply 15):
Yes, I have heard they have nicknamed it Gaykjavik

yes it does apply ... and let me tell u bout those big hot Nordic men and their big hands! WOOF!

Tony
I'M BAAAAAAAACK!
 
dptMAN
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RE: Manchester UK News

Tue Oct 25, 2005 6:11 pm

I also wouldnt route out a stop over in Iceland. I plan on travelling to ORF in February 2006. Maybe MAN > KEF > BWI on Iceland Air may be an option. However the fares are quiete high. Plus a further flight on Southwest Airlines to ORF. I may stick to MAN > ORD > ORF instead.

Plus, any news on AZ's service to FCO?
 
gayrugbyman
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RE: Manchester UK News

Tue Oct 25, 2005 6:16 pm

Can;t see AZ going for FCO now Jet2 have announced this route.
 
dptMAN
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RE: Manchester UK News

Tue Oct 25, 2005 6:26 pm

[QUOTE]Can;t see AZ going for FCO now Jet2 have announced this route.[QUOTE].

True comment. I would have thought however that LS would have done this on a daily basis rather than 3/4 weekly. They took a gamble on the MAN > BUD service starting daily last november (now a 3/4 weekly), surely there is more demand for MAN>FCO than MAN>BUD when first started?
 
gayrugbyman
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RE: Manchester UK News

Tue Oct 25, 2005 6:34 pm

Rome isn't a stag/hen party destination though.....and lets face it, the business links beween Manchester and Rome are pretty weak.
 
dptMAN
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RE: Manchester UK News

Tue Oct 25, 2005 7:05 pm

Any news on future flyBE routes from MAN after the launch of new services to Exeter & Belfast City?
 
ba757
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RE: Manchester UK News

Tue Oct 25, 2005 7:14 pm

Quoting GayrugbyMAN (Reply 21):
Rome isn't a stag/hen party destination though.....and lets face it, the business links beween Manchester and Rome are pretty weak.

AZ seem to do okay on MAN-MXP though, every time I take that flight its pretty much full. I believe AZ get a lot of pax on onward connections though, as they can be quite cheap.

I think they could probably do okay with FCO, so they can feed some more of their longhaul and european flights/

I for one would like to see them start FCO.

Adam
 
dptMAN
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RE: Manchester UK News

Tue Oct 25, 2005 7:40 pm

What about a new service to SNN after BA cancelled in September. Maybe FR (Ryanair) will take up the daily route or even jet2?
 
whitehatter
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RE: Manchester UK News

Tue Oct 25, 2005 9:53 pm

Quoting Crosswind (Reply 10):
Also there's maybe more of a market for Delta's MAN-JFK flights next year than I thought, but is this not the 4th time a US carrier has had a crack at the MAN-JFK route? AA twice and DL once before...

Last time DL had a go, was before the Skyteam linkup days. They were in direct competition with AA and a 767 plus BA with a TriStar/763 both to JFK.

Nowadays MAN is a different place. The traffic growth is impressive and there could be enough there for a third entrant in the NYC market. If UA indeed do not take a go at the IAD route then there may be some overspill into the existing carriers for connecting traffic routing via JFK instead of IAD. It'll be interesting to see who puts their code on the DL service.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
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Crosswind
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RE: Manchester UK News

Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:32 pm

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 25):
Last time DL had a go, was before the Skyteam linkup days. They were in direct competition with AA and a 767 plus BA with a TriStar/763 both to JFK

Think your timeline is a bit off! Delta never served JFK at the same time as AA...

American started MAN-JFK in 1990, initially using a 767-200. In 1994 AA nade the route summer only, for the summer 1995 season a 757 was used for the first time.

Continental started MAN-EWR in 1995 with the 757 and due to the increased competition and continuing losses American pulled off the Manchester-New York route leaving BA and Continental in late 1995.

Delta did not start MAN-JFK flights with the 767-300 until June 1997, by which time Continental were operating with a DC-10 to EWR. Unable to compete with Continental after 3 years Delta pulled the MAN-JFK flight at the end of summer 2000, in the meantime Continental had upgraded their EWR flight to a 777.

With Contiental now offering 2 daily EWR flights and BA's strong O&D traffic together with their newly refurbished 3-class 767s I have doubts about how well Delta will do second time around. As far as Trans-Atlantic service from Manchester goes there's more competition now generally in terms of available connections, and more frequency in the New York O&D market than last time Delta failed on the JFK run.

Regards
CROSSWIND
 
gayrugbyman
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RE: Manchester UK News

Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:33 pm

Still waiting on the Cathay announcement....!
 
Billy
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RE: Manchester UK News

Tue Oct 25, 2005 11:25 pm

I recall seeing DL 310s in MAN. Is it possible they were used on JFK?
 
mhodgson
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RE: Manchester UK News

Tue Oct 25, 2005 11:25 pm

Quoting DptMAN (Reply 24):
What about a new service to SNN after BA cancelled in September. Maybe FR (Ryanair) will take up the daily route or even jet2?

I can' see there being enough demand for a 737. Perhaps it is an Eastern route.
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gkirk
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RE: Manchester UK News

Tue Oct 25, 2005 11:29 pm

Quoting Crosswind (Reply 26):
Delta did not start MAN-JFK flights with the 767-300 until June 1997,

Delta started MAN-JFK usign L1011-500s if I remember correctly.
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
oly720man
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RE: Manchester UK News

Tue Oct 25, 2005 11:41 pm

Quoting Billy (Reply 28):
I recall seeing DL 310s in MAN. Is it possible they were used on JFK?

Yes, they were.
wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
 
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Crosswind
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RE: Manchester UK News

Wed Oct 26, 2005 12:04 am

Quoting Billy (Reply 28):
I recall seeing DL 310s in MAN. Is it possible they were used on JFK?



Quoting Gkirk (Reply 30):
Delta started MAN-JFK usign L1011-500s if I remember correctly.

Trawled back through some old airport timetables at the equipment Delta have used over the years. You're both right - Delta did use the A310 (albeit on the ATL route) and the JFK service was started on a TriStar. Looking back can't believe they were still using them Trans-Atlantic in 1998!

Delta MAN-ATL
Started June 1991
Summer 1991 - B767-300
Winter 1991/2 - A310
Summer 1992-Winter 1997/98 - L1011-250/2500
Summer 1998-Winter 1998/99 - B767-300
Summer 1999 - MD-11
Winter 1999-2000 - B767-300
Summer 2000-Winter 2001/02 - B777
Summer 2002 - MD-11
Winter 2002/3 - B777
Summer 2003-... - B767-300

Delta MAN-JFK
Started June 1997
Summer 1997-Winter 1997/98 - L1011-500
Summer 1998-Summer 2000 - B767-300

Regards
CROSSWIND
 
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Crosswind
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RE: Manchester UK News

Wed Oct 26, 2005 12:12 am

Quoting Oly720man (Reply 31):
Quoting Billy (Reply 28):
I recall seeing DL 310s in MAN. Is it possible they were used on JFK?

Yes, they were.

Just a quick one to say the A310s couldn't have been used on the JFK route - they were phased out in 1996 and MAN-JFK didn't start until June 1997  Wink

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speedbird19
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RE: Manchester UK News

Wed Oct 26, 2005 2:58 am

Quoting BA757 (Reply 23):
AZ seem to do okay on MAN-MXP though, every time I take that flight its pretty much full. I believe AZ get a lot of pax on onward connections though, as they can be quite cheap.

I think they could probably do okay with FCO, so they can feed some more of their longhaul and european flights/

I for one would like to see them start FCO.

Adam

that route is incredibly popular, at least it has been of late when i've been checking it in, the majority of pax as you said do have onwards connecting flights, most popular are DXB, TLV, ATH and a lot of Italian destinations such as VCE for example, but yeah I'd also like to see AZ start FCO  Wink
Planeprincess
 
ba757
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RE: Manchester UK News

Wed Oct 26, 2005 4:33 pm

Quoting Speedbird19 (Reply 34):
that route is incredibly popular, at least it has been of late when i've been checking it in, the majority of pax as you said do have onwards connecting flights, most popular are DXB, TLV, ATH and a lot of Italian destinations such as VCE for example, but yeah I'd also like to see AZ start FCO

My only quibble with AZ is their unreliability - they don't seem to have a problem with canceling flights.

Just the other day I had a phone call to tell me my flight had been cancelled, although they rebooked me the day before which I didn't really have a problem with.

The lady on the AZ desk at MAN tells me they cancel a lot of flights because of the reliability of the mad dogs, which I can understand a little. Anyway, MAN gets the E70 next Mon/Tues - looking forward to my ride home on that on Tuesday!

If AZ did start MAN-FCO, what equip do you think they would likely use? A320-1? MD80?

I would have thought Rome would be quite popular...

Adam
 
speedbird19
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RE: Manchester UK News

Wed Oct 26, 2005 6:09 pm

This winter they're timetabled to use the EMB170 on the MXP route, I'd guess they'd use that to start with if they did FCO, either that or a 320, or even an old skool MD-80  Wink The thing with AZ i like is that if a flight is cancelled or full, they're happy to arrange alternative flights, etc. I'd rather do that, BWIA were offering £700 cash in hand the other day with a hotel down in London and an alternative flight from LHR because there flight was overbooked, I'd rather take the cash  Wink
Planeprincess
 
ba757
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RE: Manchester UK News

Wed Oct 26, 2005 6:35 pm

Quoting Speedbird19 (Reply 36):
This winter they're timetabled to use the EMB170 on the MXP route

Yep thats what I meant. I think it starts next Monday on the late night flight? I know I am booked on MAN-MXP on the E70 on the Tuesday 9.30am flight but my MXP-MAN flight Sat (29oct) is the MD80.

Last winter they used the A319, I was suprised to see the E70 scheduled this winter, thought they may have used the 319 again.

Looking forward to my E70 rides, quite a few flights over winter MXP-MAN-MXP.

Quoting Speedbird19 (Reply 36):
I'd guess they'd use that to start with if they did FCO, either that or a 320, or even an old skool MD-80

Maybe an A319 too.

Adam

[Edited 2005-10-26 11:37:39]
 
dptMAN
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RE: Manchester UK News

Wed Oct 26, 2005 6:42 pm

Quoting Mhodgson (Reply 29):
can' see there being enough demand for a 737. Perhaps it is an Eastern route.

Fair point, however what about FRs route out of LPL daily to SNN. What are the loads like on this flight? Surely if FR can make it work out of LPL to SNN what about out of MAN. I flew BA on MAN > SNN in August 2005. On the outbound leg the plane wasnt even half full, however on returning the flight was full. Interesting to know how FR is doing on their LPL>SNN route?
 
planesarecool
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RE: Manchester UK News

Wed Oct 26, 2005 9:41 pm

Quoting DptMAN (Reply 24):
What about a new service to SNN after BA cancelled in September. Maybe FR (Ryanair) will take up the daily route or even jet2?

Surely if BA dropped it then it meant there wasn't enough demand to keep it going, and that was with smaller aircraft. Ryanair haven't really been too fussed about Manchester in the past, and now they have a reasonably big base in Liverpool, which isn't too far away, i can't really see them going there.

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 25):
The traffic growth is impressive and there could be enough there for a third entrant in the NYC market

I thought there were already 3 airlines serving New York from Manchester - CO, BA and PK?
 
Billy
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RE: Manchester UK News

Wed Oct 26, 2005 10:41 pm

Just picking up on the E170s with AZ, I have been loking at a trip to Asia on Finnair and the schedule appeared to show their evening flight as being operated with an E170. Is this correct?

On AZ, they do have some very cheap fates (Dubai at �248 return). I have also been stung by having to cross town from MXP to LIN for a domestic connection. Taxis cost E100 and AZ does not pick up the tab. There are infrequent buses, but that meant me missing my connection.

Sorry, a bit OT for the MAN thread.
 
ba757
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RE: Manchester UK News

Wed Oct 26, 2005 11:52 pm

Quoting Billy (Reply 40):
On AZ, they do have some very cheap fates (Dubai at �248 return). I have also been stung by having to cross town from MXP to LIN for a domestic connection. Taxis cost E100 and AZ does not pick up the tab. There are infrequent buses, but that meant me missing my connection.

To be expected really. BA won't pick up the tab if they sell you a flight that arrives at LGW, but your connection departs LHR.

I am just very careful to avoid this, but unfortunately it happens with some flights.

However some of their flights are very cheap, and thankfully most depart MXP or FCO.

Adam
 
pyh
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RE: Manchester UK News

Thu Oct 27, 2005 2:25 am

Quoting Billy (Reply 40):
Just picking up on the E170s with AZ, I have been loking at a trip to Asia on Finnair and the schedule appeared to show their evening flight as being operated with an E170. Is this correct?

Yes, expect on Sunday (31 Oct =>). But of course they can change the aircraft type anytime.
 
mhodgson
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RE: Manchester UK News

Thu Oct 27, 2005 2:53 am

Quoting Billy (Reply 40):
Just picking up on the E170s with AZ, I have been loking at a trip to Asia on Finnair and the schedule appeared to show their evening flight as being operated with an E170. Is this correct?

Yep  Smile
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dptMAN
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RE: Manchester UK News

Thu Oct 27, 2005 6:50 pm

Is LOT now opperating the daily WAW>MAN flight with E70's?
Seen quiet a few pictures however, these may have been for the Football game last week.


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ba757
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RE: Manchester UK News

Thu Oct 27, 2005 7:12 pm

Quoting DptMAN (Reply 44):
Is LOT now opperating the daily WAW>MAN flight with E70's?

Yes they have been for awhile. They come in late at night and depart very early the following day.

Adam
 
dptMAN
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RE: Manchester UK News

Thu Oct 27, 2005 7:51 pm

So, any news on new long-haul routes from MAN?
Hopefully Etihad will release they're news soon, or even an expansion of VS.
 
gayrugbyman
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RE: Manchester UK News

Thu Oct 27, 2005 8:12 pm

If EY do start, I cant see it much before summer 06, same for VS, CX (still no news there!) and other possible long hauls.
 
Billy
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RE: Manchester UK News

Thu Oct 27, 2005 8:39 pm

EY are playing hard ball with Manchester. They want more money, or so they say.
 
David_itl
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RE: Manchester UK News

Fri Oct 28, 2005 3:15 am

Jet2 is now advertising for 757 pilots at MAN in addition to the existing LBA postings and a little rumour...City Airline of Sweden is starting a LYS hub with possibility of serving Germany and the UK.

David