B742
Topic Author
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Iberia To Cut Jobs And Fleet

Tue Oct 25, 2005 5:40 am

Spanish national airline, Iberia, is to cut up to 2,000 jobs and reduce the carriers fleet from 152 to 132 aircraft!

The Iberia fleet will reduce from 152 to 132 aircraft by 2008, mainly medium and short haul aircraft will go.

Also 2,000 jobs will be cut by 2008, the main reason for this cut is the rising price of fuel!

A real shame for IB!  Sad

more here:
http://news.airwise.com/story/view/1130156405.html


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What aircraft will we see disapear from the fleet?

Iberia still has A340-600's and A318's, A320's and A321's on order right?

Rob!  wave 
 
bullpitt
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RE: Iberia To Cut Jobs And Fleet

Tue Oct 25, 2005 5:55 am

The MD will probably be going and some European routes will be cut while long haul to South America and Central America will see an increase. The Jobs to be cut will be done through early retirement plans for those over 58 and 62 for mechanics.

The cut saving plans will also affect many others parts of the company and these are being implemented to keep IB in the black for the next 3 yrs.
These are my principles but if you don't like them I have others
 
Aisak
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RE: Iberia To Cut Jobs And Fleet

Tue Oct 25, 2005 5:57 am

Left photo: It's not Iberia, It's Air Nostrum and that turbvoprop won't be affected by the cut as they are different companies....


Currently IB has several MD 87/88 to get rid of in order to move to a single fleet compossed of Airbus.... I think the 318/319 will fill this hole
 
ba319-131
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RE: Iberia To Cut Jobs And Fleet

Tue Oct 25, 2005 6:04 am

The MD-87/88 fleet will be leaving the fleetober the next few years, with a mix of A318-A321 replacing them, though if IB stick to the new plan, de-fleet wil exceed new additions.
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AlitaliaMD11
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RE: Iberia To Cut Jobs And Fleet

Tue Oct 25, 2005 6:10 am

Quoting B742 (Thread starter):
Iberia still has A340-600's and A318's, A320's and A321's on order right?

Three more A340-600s to be delivered, the 10th A340-600 was recently delivered.

Iberia will probably drop some MD-87/88s and B757-200s, maybe one or two A320s.
No Vueling No Party
 
IBERIA747
Posts: 1648
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RE: Iberia To Cut Jobs And Fleet

Tue Oct 25, 2005 6:22 am

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 4):
Iberia will probably drop some MD-87/88s and B757-200s, maybe one or two A320s.

The aircraft to be dropped are:
12 B757-200s (A few of them are already operated by other company on behalf of Iberia).
24 MD87s (A few of them have already left and are flying with Spanair)
13 MD88s (Ex-Aviaco).
22 A320s (the first ones to join the fleet).

These aircraft wil be replaced by new A318s, A319s, A329s and A321s. However, the amount of aircraft to join the fleet is smaller than the amount of aircraft to be retired (as long as IB will not confirm the options it has for more aircraft).
¡¡VIVA ESPAÑA!!
 
kappel
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RE: Iberia To Cut Jobs And Fleet

Tue Oct 25, 2005 6:29 am

Quoting IBERIA747 (Reply 5):
13 MD88s (Ex-Aviaco).

I'm glad I got the opportunity to fly on these last summer. They looked pretty worn on the inside, but what a ride!!  cloudnine  Cut these fleet cuts (757's, md80's and early a320's) were already announced when they made the new a32x order right? I recall something like that, that the new order was to replace those aircraft.
L1011,733,734,73G,738,743,744,752,763,772,77W,DC855,DC863,DC930,DC950,MD11,MD88,306,319,320,321,343,346,ARJ85,CR7,E195
 
MD11junkie
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RE: Iberia To Cut Jobs And Fleet

Tue Oct 25, 2005 6:36 am

Quoting Bullpitt (Reply 1):
The MD will probably be going

This is the first thing I thought. They make absolutely no sense, even though I love the Maddogs, in IB's almost all-Airbus domestic/regional fleet.

It's a surprise that the 757s are going too, but - if you follow the logic, they are bound to go for Airbuses.

I don't know if Alfonso or anyone can answer this for me:

IBERIA was supposed to be doing good, and I lost I've heard was pretty healthy. What is the reason for these cuts? Is IB going into the red? Thanks in Advance.

What are the South American routes not profitable for IB. South America is really a gold mine for them.

Cheers! wave 
Gastón - The MD11 Junkie
There is no such thing as Boeing vs Airbus as the queen of the skies has three engines, winglets and the sweetest nose!
 
IBERIA747
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RE: Iberia To Cut Jobs And Fleet

Tue Oct 25, 2005 6:42 am

Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 7):
IBERIA was supposed to be doing good, and I lost I've heard was pretty healthy. What is the reason for these cuts? Is IB going into the red?



No, they're not going into red or anything like it.

According to IB's management (which have increased their salaries before announcing cost cutting measures) this measures are intended to keep the airline in the black during the years to come, having in mind that the competition brought by the LCCs will be INTENSE.
¡¡VIVA ESPAÑA!!
 
jacobin777
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RE: Iberia To Cut Jobs And Fleet

Tue Oct 25, 2005 6:56 am

Quoting B742 (Thread starter):
The Iberia fleet will reduce from 152 to 132 aircraft by 2008, mainly medium and short haul aircraft will go.



Quoting B742 (Thread starter):

Iberia still has A340-600's and A318's, A320's and A321's on order right?



Quoting IBERIA747 (Reply 5):
22 A320s (the first ones to join the fleet).

I'm glad IB will be keeping/adding A320's to their fleet...their short-haul Airbus looks good in IB colours!


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"Up the Irons!"
 
MD11junkie
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RE: Iberia To Cut Jobs And Fleet

Tue Oct 25, 2005 6:58 am

Quoting IBERIA747 (Reply 8):
According to IB's management (which have increased their salaries before announcing cost cutting measures)

Alfonso,
If cost cutting measures are to obtain more profitability against strong LCC competition, how is the 'pay-check-thickening' seen by many IB workers? Have they found out?

Por si queda alguna duda, no ataco a IB en esta  Smile Solo quiero saber.

Cheers! wave 
Gastón - The MD11 Junkie
There is no such thing as Boeing vs Airbus as the queen of the skies has three engines, winglets and the sweetest nose!
 
iberiadc852
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RE: Iberia To Cut Jobs And Fleet

Tue Oct 25, 2005 7:28 am

Ok. they are in their right to do it. But taking this kind of decisions (reducing fleet and jobs) while they are letting go some emerging markets (China for instance) deserve very good strikes like they are likely going to have. I only hope the numbers they have made include the previsible bad reactions in staff these kind of measures should bring in a moment like this (somewhat uncertain but still wealthy for the company)
variety is the spice of life; that's what made the "old times" so good
 
foxdelta
Posts: 113
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RE: Iberia To Cut Jobs And Fleet

Tue Oct 25, 2005 7:39 am

It looks like the regional franchise Air Nostrum will dispose of its ATR72s in the next 2 years... But will begin operating CRJ900s as well as more CRJ200s.

Cheers  scratchchin 
 
AlitaliaMD11
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RE: Iberia To Cut Jobs And Fleet

Tue Oct 25, 2005 8:45 am

Quoting IBERIA747 (Reply 5):
The aircraft to be dropped are:
12 B757-200s (A few of them are already operated by other company on behalf of Iberia).
24 MD87s (A few of them have already left and are flying with Spanair)
13 MD88s (Ex-Aviaco).
22 A320s (the first ones to join the fleet).

Yes! Atleast I got the fleet types right!
No Vueling No Party
 
Cure
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RE: Iberia To Cut Jobs And Fleet

Tue Oct 25, 2005 9:20 am

IB seems to me every day more like British Airways' network's gaps' filler. Southern and Central America (with the exception of Brazil) seem to be the only true obsession for them, and I was just wondering if this is the best move for the future (that's why I agree with Iberiadc8-52), and I guess they could have fought much more for Brazil and a link between LatAm-Far East.
Just my 2 cents.
 
vv701
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RE: Iberia To Cut Jobs And Fleet

Tue Oct 25, 2005 9:26 am

Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 7):
IBERIA was supposed to be doing good, and I lost I've heard was pretty healthy.

The management of a well managed airline will look for cost savings when it sees something beyond its control - in this case the oil price hike - when it is doing well. Doing what DL did five years or so ago - squander a good financial situation by giving management and staff what proved to be unsustainable salary increases - is bad management.

Now the next test of how good Iberia management is will be the way they manage their cost control programme. Cutting 2,000 jobs over a three year period while keeping their employees on their side is quite possible. I am not sure how big a cut in staff numbers this will be - that is the total number of employees today. But over three years many of the 2,000 job loses will be covered by natural wastage - staff retiring or leaving for other reasons and not being replaced by new recruits. Hopefully any additional reductions will be negotiated and not enforced.

If this can be achieved it will be to the long term benefit of all remaining Iberia employees. They are not like their US brothers and sisters who can rely on Chapter 11 Protection when management mismanage.
 
A350
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RE: Iberia To Cut Jobs And Fleet

Tue Oct 25, 2005 9:46 am

Quoting IBERIA747 (Reply 5):
22 A320s (the first ones to join the fleet).

Does anybody know there they will go? To LCCs? I never understood why the legacies operate the oldest A320s while many LCCs come with tons of brand new A32s. It should be the other way round  scratchchin 

A350
 
rojo
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RE: Iberia To Cut Jobs And Fleet

Tue Oct 25, 2005 9:57 am

Quoting Bullpitt (Reply 1):
The Jobs to be cut will be done through early retirement plans for those over 58 and 62 for mechanics.

I was wondering how they would do the job cut, since spanish labour laws are quite strict and they will not allow to fire people that easy. One of the main reasons why IB has problems with its in flight service is the job security of FA, who know that even if they provide a lousy service, they will never get fired.

Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 10):
If cost cutting measures are to obtain more profitability against strong LCC competition, how is the 'pay-check-thickening' seen by many IB workers? Have they found out?

IB has been facing strong competition from LCC's, specially Vueling, so they have to react. The problem is they can't lower their operating costs easily (labour being the most difficult), so fleet standardization is a place to start.
I don't see pay checks decreasing. It is quite difficult to lower salaries in Spain.
 
dme
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RE: Iberia To Cut Jobs And Fleet

Tue Oct 25, 2005 5:42 pm

Dear all,

I was also a bit surprised when I read the news about Iberia cutting up many jobs and reduce the fleet. However, as it has been talked before in A.net, the competition in Spain is a very strong one, may be the toughest in Europe. We have several Spanish companies, some more important than others (Iberia may be the biggest Spanish company but Iberia is not the flag company of Spain any more), i.e., Iberia/AirNostrum, Spanair/AeBal, Air Europa, Air Plus/Air Plus Comet, Pullmantur, Futura, Iberworld, Air Madrid, Vueling(JetBlue) and smaller ones (Gir Air is working for Spanair, other one which I don't remember the name has bought several 757´s from Iberia and are flying for them, etc.), plus foreign ones which offer or plan to offer domestic flights (i.e., not Spanish but European, and that means that compete with the Spanish ones at the same level), such as Easyjet, Ryanair, AirBerlin. Many other European ones are also offering many flights into and out of Spain. You should also add the presence in the next years of the high-velocity train, already running from Madrid to Seville and Lerida (and in two years time to Barcelona). If you sum a very tough competition and the prospect of difficult times with high prices for fuel, you should think for the future and know what are you doing very well. You know that if you fall down, many others will take your remnants, and in this case the Spanish Government will give you no financial aid, you know you are completely alone in the wild.

I suppose that this movement of Iberia is because it is preparing itself for the hard times we will see in the next future. Apart from that, as it has been said above, the jobs which will be cut will be of those people which are going to be retired in the next years (there will be no new jobs), and the aircraft reduction means that more aircraft will be phased out than those new replacing them. We will see also that many routes will be taken by subsidiaries; the only question I foresee in this moment is the relationship between Iberia and Air Nostrum (they have about 150 and 80 aircraft at this moment) and I know that Air Nostrum wants to grow and be bigger.

I think that the future will be very hard for many European companies: only a few big ones will stay and others will convert into smaller feeding ones. See what is happening in the USA (and what will happen), it is happening now in Europe and it will happen in Asia (in ten-twenty years time).

My very best regards,
Dme.
 
TriStar500
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RE: Iberia To Cut Jobs And Fleet

Tue Oct 25, 2005 6:46 pm

So I suppose we will see many of the European and domestic routes, which are "unprofitable" at IB's production costs, being handed over to partner airlines like Air Nostrum and Audeli?
Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
 
dme
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RE: Iberia To Cut Jobs And Fleet

Tue Oct 25, 2005 7:08 pm

Tristar,

That´s my feeling. Those "unprofitably" routes could be run by completely independent companies or might be using a LCC owned by Iberia itself. That would depend strongly on the "behavior" of the unions; however, the unions also remember when Iberia closed all flights one night to stop immediately any probability of a strike. I think that Iberia workers are completely aware of the tough actual times.

Regards.
 
Icaro
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RE: Iberia To Cut Jobs And Fleet

Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:46 pm

Nobody is going to be fired. All job cuts are going to be early retirements. The company is not having any problems with that, rather the opposite. I think this is a mistake because all those people are going to retire during these three years anyway. This cuts should be focused on people in the 50-58 segment rather than in the 58-60. (Our retirement age is 60)
Problems will come because they want to cut our days off, our salaries while increasing our productivity. That's what we can't understand. I can fly 90 hours per month with 14 days off, yet next month I'll fly 72 hours and will have 16 days off. First they have to learn to use our potential to the maximum every month, then if it is not enough, they can start to ask for cuts.
They are cutting about 2000 jobs form workers, but how many management staff will go????
They are always comparing our workers salaries to those of the LCC's, but no comparison between theirs.
How many management staff has Easyjet for around 100 planes? We have around 500 for 150 planes.
Where do Easyjet leaders work? Ours have each an office, a secretary and most a car.
Comparisons must be fair in all fields.
 
gkirk
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RE: Iberia To Cut Jobs And Fleet

Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:54 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 9):

Christ, do you plug one of your pics in every thread or something? lol  Silly
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
rojo
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RE: Iberia To Cut Jobs And Fleet

Tue Oct 25, 2005 11:22 pm

Quoting Icaro (Reply 21):
Nobody is going to be fired. All job cuts are going to be early retirements. The company is not having any problems with that, rather the opposite. I think this is a mistake because all those people are going to retire during these three years anyway. This cuts should be focused on people in the 50-58 segment rather than in the 58-60. (Our retirement age is 60)

It is quite difficult to fire people under Spanish labour laws, so they have to stick to early retirements.

Quoting Icaro (Reply 21):
Problems will come because they want to cut our days off, our salaries while increasing our productivity. That's what we can't understand. I can fly 90 hours per month with 14 days off, yet next month I'll fly 72 hours and will have 16 days off. First they have to learn to use our potential to the maximum every month, then if it is not enough, they can start to ask for cuts. They are cutting about 2000 jobs form workers, but how many management staff will go????
They are always comparing our workers salaries to those of the LCC's, but no comparison between theirs.
How many management staff has Easyjet for around 100 planes? We have around 500 for 150 planes.
Where do Easyjet leaders work? Ours have each an office, a secretary and most a car.
Comparisons must be fair in all fields.

You hit the main concern of all companies in Spain. Productivity is low, and it is because of Spanish labour laws that the country can't increase productivity. Spain has seen its productivity numbers fall for the last 10 years (one of the worst countries terms of productivity in the EU) thanks to the job security guaranteed by the law. All companies in Spain are talking about increasing it, but it will not happen until the government changes the law, making it more flexible. There are tons of young Spaniards looking for a job with an indefinite contract, but all they get is a temporary one. Instead, people in their 30+, who got their jobs before the temporary contracts were authorized, have job security and good salaries. Therefore, IB management will not be reduced and the corporate headquarters will keep being overstaffed. Competition is indeed hurting IB and there is not much they can do to reduce costs, but to standardize their fleet. After that, and when the AVE starts running all the way to Barcelona, IB will have to come with new ideas to keep the business!
 
IBERIA747
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RE: Iberia To Cut Jobs And Fleet

Wed Oct 26, 2005 2:49 am

Quoting Rojo (Reply 23):
It is quite difficult to fire people under Spanish labour laws, so they have to stick to early retirements.

While it can be partially true if you work for the government, the reality in private companies is the complete opposite.

Quoting Rojo (Reply 23):
Productivity is low, and it is because of Spanish labour laws that the country can't increase productivity.

Again...that's not the case in the market I work for...which happens to be one of the main "motors" of the Spanish economy.

The motto in my company is "o llegas al objetivo o te vas a la puta calle"..as simple as that. And it's not just a threat since they don't think it twice to fire someone. Believe me, they know how to mantain a high productivity, even though our company is less strict than many of our competitors.

An interesting example of this "high pressure" is a very famous Spanish company, which could also be the biggest company in this country: El Corte Inglés (Total sales of over €14 billion last year and about 100,000 employees)...you would be surprised.

I am sorry but what you say is not true. Maybe if you work for the Government, but not for the majority of the working population.
¡¡VIVA ESPAÑA!!
 
egmcman
Posts: 729
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RE: Iberia To Cut Jobs And Fleet

Wed Oct 26, 2005 3:33 am

Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 7):
It's a surprise that the 757s are going too, but - if you follow the logic, they are bound to go for Airbuses.

A321's are the replacements for these it was planed once they got over A320/321 pilot salary dispute.

Quoting Icaro (Reply 21):
Nobody is going to be fired. All job cuts are going to be early retirements. The company is not having any problems with that, rather the opposite. I think this is a mistake because all those people are going to retire during these three years anyway. This cuts should be focused on people in the 50-58 segment rather than in the 58-60. (Our retirement age is 60)

I think they are focusing on the 58-60 age group as it will cost them less.

Quoting Icaro (Reply 21):
Problems will come because they want to cut our days off, our salaries while increasing our productivity. That's what we can't understand. I can fly 90 hours per month with 14 days off, yet next month I'll fly 72 hours and will have 16 days off. First they have to learn to use our potential to the maximum every month, then if it is not enough, they can start to ask for cuts.

I understand what you are saying and there will be less slack if people are unable to be at work for any reason.

Quoting Icaro (Reply 21):
Where do Easyjet leaders work? Ours have each an office, a secretary and most a car.

London Luton Airport LTN.

cheers

egmcman
 
bullpitt
Posts: 757
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 7:09 am

RE: Iberia To Cut Jobs And Fleet

Wed Oct 26, 2005 3:52 am

Love the speculation by some of the members here, many talking about things they have no clue about. Without going into details, which at the moment are not public.

1) Yes the job cuts will be by an ERE (early retirement). 58 and over for most of the company employees. (TMAs) Mechanics from 62 and over.

2) IB will present the best results in their history but only due to the sale of Amadeus. According to management if we don't take measures now, next year we would begin to be in the red.

3) Many of the measures will affect TCPs (cabin crew) and pilots and most are aimed at getting them to fly more for the same money.

4) Yes it is hard to fire an IB employee ( thank god for that) but not impossible. The company can use the same tool we have to protect our selves. (our convenio) to apply against a worker who does not comply.

5) All areas of the company will be affected some more than others.

6) IB compares itself (cost wise) with the majors KLM, AF, BA and productivity wise our pilots and cabin crews are above market price specially the cabin crew.

We will defend our rights as workers but obviously we will always be willing to negotiate with the company those measures that will ensure our jobs and standards of living are maintained.

By the way there will still be work available for those wishing to join the company as some of those retiring will be replaced with new labour.
These are my principles but if you don't like them I have others
 
rojo
Posts: 2257
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 6:08 am

RE: Iberia To Cut Jobs And Fleet

Wed Oct 26, 2005 5:15 am

Quoting IBERIA747 (Reply 24):
Again...that's not the case in the market I work for...which happens to be one of the main "motors" of the Spanish economy.

The motto in my company is "o llegas al objetivo o te vas a la puta calle"..as simple as that. And it's not just a threat since they don't think it twice to fire someone. Believe me, they know how to mantain a high productivity, even though our company is less strict than many of our competitors.

An interesting example of this "high pressure" is a very famous Spanish company, which could also be the biggest company in this country: El Corte Inglés (Total sales of over €14 billion last year and about 100,000 employees)...you would be surprised.

I am sorry but what you say is not true. Maybe if you work for the Government, but not for the majority of the working population.

Well, at least for the banking and hotel/airline industry, it is true. I work for a bank and it is quite difficult to fire someone in our Spain branch. Don't know which industry you work for, but if you are fired in any of these industries (having a long-term contract) you are guaranteed generous severance payments. And if you sue and are reinstated by labour courts you become untouchable.

If you want a source, then go to the Wall Street Journal. There is a very good article on this topic:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1127...354031.html?mod=todays_us_page_one
 
Icaro
Posts: 218
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 3:00 am

RE: Iberia To Cut Jobs And Fleet

Wed Oct 26, 2005 5:54 am

Quoting Bullpitt (Reply 26):
6) IB compares itself (cost wise) with the majors KLM, AF, BA and productivity wise our pilots and cabin crews are above market price specially the cabin crew.

IB compares us to LAn Chile or Easyjet, never to BA or AF. We are not above market when compared to them.

Quoting Egmcman (Reply 25):
Problems will come because they want to cut our days off, our salaries while increasing our productivity. That's what we can't understand. I can fly 90 hours per month with 14 days off, yet next month I'll fly 72 hours and will have 16 days off. First they have to learn to use our potential to the maximum every month, then if it is not enough, they can start to ask for cuts.

I understand what you are saying and there will be less slack if people are unable to be at work for any reason.

I meant that the maximum i can work is 90 hours with 14 days off, yet they don't use the whole potential, just 72 hours with 16 days off. That's not our fault, it is theirs.
 
anxebla
Posts: 1696
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 8:31 am

RE: Iberia To Cut Jobs And Fleet

Wed Oct 26, 2005 7:01 am

Quoting Rojo (Reply 27):
Well, at least for the banking and hotel/airline industry, it is true

Sorry Rojo, but ...NOT, it is not true at all. Spanish salaries are by far, pretty low if you make comparison with France, Ireland/UK, Germany, Belgium/Netherlands and of course the entire Scandinavia. And productivity isnot worst than in Northern Europe.

Quoting Rojo (Reply 27):
you are guaranteed generous severance payments

It's depends how long you have pay to "Seguridad Social". Again your remark is typically trite.

Quoting Bullpitt (Reply 26):
According to management if we don't take measures now, next year we would begin to be in the red.

When you pay attencion to an IB senior management, for instance A.Mullor, they are always saying the same: Future is hard and black, high oil prices, a lot of competition vs Low Cost ...etc ...etc. It seems IB is the only one airline in the world which must to face to those factors!!!
AIRBUS 320 The world's most advanced single-aisle aircraft
 
CRJ900
Posts: 1944
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 2:48 am

RE: Iberia To Cut Jobs And Fleet

Wed Oct 26, 2005 7:06 am

Quoting FoxDelta (Reply 12):
It looks like the regional franchise Air Nostrum will dispose of its ATR72s in the next 2 years... But will begin operating CRJ900s as well as more CRJ200s.

Cheers

So rumours (even in Flight International) about the introduction of CRJ900s are true then? Then why haven't they announced it publicly with BBD listing it in its orderbook? The cat is obviously out of the bag by now anyhoo...
Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
 
rojo
Posts: 2257
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 6:08 am

RE: Iberia To Cut Jobs And Fleet

Wed Oct 26, 2005 8:39 am

Quoting Anxebla (Reply 29):
Sorry Rojo, but ...NOT, it is not true at all. Spanish salaries are by far, pretty low if you make comparison with France, Ireland/UK, Germany, Belgium/Netherlands and of course the entire Scandinavia. And productivity isnot worst than in Northern Europe.

That is exactly my point, salaries are low and if you add the use of short term contracts where companies do not train people because there is high turn around, then you end up with a low productivity.

About the productivity being better in Spain than in other Northern Europe countries, would you mind sharing some backup for this. Care to read the article I posted:

"Spain's hourly productivity has stagnated in recent years, while it has risen in many other European countries. According to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, productivity in Spain grew an average of 0.9% a year between 1995 and 2004, compared with 1.7% in Germany, 2% in France and 2.5% in the U.S."

Quoting Anxebla (Reply 29):
It's depends how long you have pay to "Seguridad Social". Again your remark is typically trite.

You are correct, but if the employee sue's the company because there was no reason to fire him, then he will be reinstated and untouchable.

Don't get me wrong, last year I applied for jobs in Spain (I am a Spanish citizen) and the salaries they offered me were quite low compared with what I gor from England, US and even Mexico and I was not impressed with the quality of people working in those companies. I ended up saying no to all my job offers in Spain.
 
anxebla
Posts: 1696
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 8:31 am

RE: Iberia To Cut Jobs And Fleet

Wed Oct 26, 2005 9:00 am

Quoting Rojo (Reply 31):
the article

Interesting ...but remember figures can be manipulating easily

Quoting Rojo (Reply 31):
You are correct, but if the employee sue's the company because there was no reason to fire him, then he will be reinstated and untouchable.

Only if there is a judge who pass sentence with a "despido improcedente" order

Quoting Rojo (Reply 31):
quite low compared with what I gor from England, US and even Mexico

I believe you!
AIRBUS 320 The world's most advanced single-aisle aircraft
 
Aisak
Posts: 549
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 10:56 pm

RE: Iberia To Cut Jobs And Fleet

Thu Oct 27, 2005 2:13 am

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 30):
So rumours (even in Flight International) about the introduction of CRJ900s are true then? Then why haven't they announced it publicly with BBD listing it in its orderbook? The cat is obviously out of the bag by now anyhoo...

Air Nostrum's CEO Interview (lowcost, Blacklists) (by Aisak Oct 24 2005 in Civil Aviation)

Confirmed by Air Nostrum CEO here

and more conviniently here: (only spanish) http://servicios.lasprovincias.es/va...conomia/200510/23/VAL-ECO-294.html

About IB routes restructuration?
There are some IB routes which cannot be operated under IB costs structure and can be improved by mixing medium and small planes. We may jump to routes where we aren't flying and the other way round, because of cost cutting meassures we may start 90-seaters instead of 50

BTW, Air Nostrum has an agreement with Bombardier with options for bigger planes.. How are the talks?
We have the intention and also the need to start operations with a bigger fleet (meaning bigger planes) to serve those routes which are growning fast. It's something to talk to our partners, and one of the curent talks with IB. I cannot make an statement about when, but soon

Next year?
Yes, very likely
 
bullpitt
Posts: 757
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 7:09 am

RE: Iberia To Cut Jobs And Fleet

Thu Oct 27, 2005 6:28 am

First of all for some of those who are not Spanish and for some who are. If you are fired and go to court over the matter the judge can say its legal and that's it, he can say is "improcedente" rule against the dismissal which means the firm has to have you back or still fire you but must pay you a sum depending on how long you have been with the firm. Or he can say the dismissal is "nulo" which means the company can not fire you and must take you back. Normally for a judge to rule a dismissal as nulo the person fired would be an elected union member who is fired because of his duties as a representative of the workers.

Icaro talk to your union rep but TPC's in IB and I mean the older ones are way over market price compared to BA LH and other majors.

Anxebla

IB is not the only one who had high fuel cost etc. but management is right when they say that tough times are coming and we must prepare ourselfs to remain in the black because staying in the black will guarantee our jobs.
These are my principles but if you don't like them I have others
 
spantax
Posts: 302
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2004 4:44 pm

RE: Iberia To Cut Jobs And Fleet

Tue Nov 08, 2005 6:22 am

Hi, Does anybody knows which domestic routes of Iberia are considered as loss-making? It must be a well kept secret due to political reasons (all the majors and regional leaders protesting in case "their" route is affected), but any clue will be appreciated. Regards
A300.10.19.20.21.30.40,AN26,ATR42,AVR146,B717.27.37.47.57.77,B1900,C130,C212,CH47,CRJ200.700,DC9,DHC4,ERJ135.190,F27
 
Aisak
Posts: 549
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 10:56 pm

RE: Iberia To Cut Jobs And Fleet

Tue Nov 08, 2005 7:24 pm

If it is a loss making then it's transfered to YW Iberia Regional Air Nostrum. With small planes and good schedule that route can turn to profit
 
anxebla
Posts: 1696
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 8:31 am

RE: Iberia To Cut Jobs And Fleet

Wed Nov 09, 2005 12:19 am

Quoting Bullpitt (Reply 34):
but management is right

Can you believe this yourself? X. de Irala was a very good as an Iberia CEO, but sincerely It is hard for me trusting in this current management.

Maybe the best solution for the Iberia's problem with stems can be a merger with BA following AF-KL example.
AIRBUS 320 The world's most advanced single-aisle aircraft
 
bullpitt
Posts: 757
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 7:09 am

RE: Iberia To Cut Jobs And Fleet

Wed Nov 09, 2005 6:12 am

Anxebla

As an IB employee I don't think a merger with BA will be the best thing although only time will tell. I don't support current management but again only time will tell if their dooing things the correct way.

This "convenio" will be tough to negotiate as we don't agree with having our wages frozen and other measures that are contemplated in the "plan director" Ground crews in IB have over the Last few years made many sacrifices and are by far the ones who have most improved their productivity so is up to the pilots and TPC's to pull their fingers out and do some sacrifices after all they have more to loose than we.
These are my principles but if you don't like them I have others
 
anxebla
Posts: 1696
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 8:31 am

RE: Iberia To Cut Jobs And Fleet

Wed Nov 09, 2005 1:01 pm

@Bullpitt:

Like a former IB groud staff and as a son of a retired 747 Flight Attendant I find this current management a bit confused. I have never seen before a board of directors so indecisive like this one is. They are pretty conservative but they were thinking in buying MX and Vueling. They are saying IB must growing and keeping the leadership as the Spain's leading airline but they cut ops. in a 5% and leave slots at BCN, allowing UX and Air Plus can benefit of the new routes to China according to the new bilateral Spain-China agreement. They sell assets, like the Iberswiss catering and/or the IB shares in Amadeus being it a ""Laugh now, cry later" (or "pan para hoy y hambre para mañana" like it is in Spanish)

IB today has an identity crisis and there is a small risk of it's lost his bearings despite that at the moment Iberia is a profitable carrier, but ...how long for?? The main risk is not the Low Cost competition (it is, but so high like some people think). The main risk for IB is going out of the right way, a excessive conservatism and also don't have confidence in future.
AIRBUS 320 The world's most advanced single-aisle aircraft