ryanlock
Posts: 76
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KLM Cancel My Christmas Day Flight! (Me=Stranded)

Wed Oct 26, 2005 2:06 am

To cut a long story short. I am booked to fly from CDG-AMS-LBA on Christmas Day. The KLM flight will connect with my Delta Air Lines flight 44 from CVG-CDG.

I received an email today from Expedia who I booked the KLM inter-European flight with to say my schedule had been changed..... Called them and the flight from AMS-LBA is no longer running. They have stopped ALL 3 flights from AMS-LBA on Christmas day.

GREAT - I'm stranded on Christmas Day in either CDG or AMS. Whhhaaaaat?! Surely they cannot do this to me. I have a family I need to go back to who have arranged to pick me up at LBA when the flight lands.

I called Expedia and obviously it is not their fault, they only have KLM's schedules to work with. Expedia have been great trying to deal with this, but I am SO frustrated at KLM.

Understandably, I know they can change their schedules and have a right to do so, however when it is a flight they have been selling and people are booked on, especially Christmas Day then that's taking it a little too far.

Don't get me wrong, credit where credit is due - KLM have offered to fly me a day before or after (based on availability) but they won't even change my flight to fly into MAN on Christmas Day. If they would fly me into MAN, surely they should compensate me for the costs I will have in getting back from Manchester Airport to Leeds? Realistically this isn't my fault and KLM should accommodate all costs to my final destination which I booked with them prior to this announcement.

Now what do I do? They have offered a full refund, however they were the only airline flying into LBA on Christmas Day and even if I were to take the full refund, then to buy another ticket on the same day, but routing to MAN - It would cost me tonnes more as the prices have rocketed, obviously because of the day in mentioning.

What a total human torture KLM have given me! Now I have to work out what's going to be best. Looks like, I'm going to be stranded in CDG for Christmas Day.

I have family to go back to... Frustrated isn't the word!

Ryan
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cedarjet
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RE: KLM Cancel My Christmas Day Flight! (Me=Stranded)

Wed Oct 26, 2005 2:27 am

Hate to be a pain in the arse, but why are you doing such a weird routing? Why not fly CVG to LGW on Delta? I mean, when you land in Paris, you're still TWO COUNTRIES away from your destination in the UK. I sympathise to a degree cos I've been known to book a few odd routings (see below) but not when I need to be somewhere or during a stressy travel period (ie Xmas).

DL / AF / KL are all affiliated to a degree, certainly in the case of the latter two and of course DL / AF relations are strong as well. See if you can parlay this cancellation into getting them to bend rerouting rules and get on the CVG-LGW, or see if Air France fly from Paris to Manchester or somewhere on Xmas Day.

Oh yeah, getting home the long way:
1. instead of flying CLT-LGW on USAir, I flew CLT-atl-JFK on Delta followed by JFK-hel-LHR on Finnair.
2. instead of flying SYD-bkk-LHR on Qantas or BA, I flew SYD-mel-mnl-BKK on Philippines, BKK-BOM on Air France, BOM-auh-BAH on Gulf Air, BAH-bey-DXB on Middle East Airlines (for my only seven-oh ride to date), and finally DXB-LHR on PIA.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
AirScoot
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RE: KLM Cancel My Christmas Day Flight! (Me=Stranded)

Wed Oct 26, 2005 2:32 am

Quoting Ryanlock (Thread starter):
KLM have offered to fly me a day before or after (based on availability) but they won't even change my flight to fly into MAN on Christmas Day. If they would fly me into MAN, surely they should compensate me for the costs I will have in getting back from Manchester Airport to Leeds? Realistically this isn't my fault and KLM should accommodate all costs to my final destination which I booked with them prior to this announcement.

First off, because you bought this through Expedia, did you try to contact them to get them to refund the ticket due to a schedule change?

Unfortunately since the ticket was not all on one carrier's stock, they don't have to do much of anything for you. Your transatlantic flight was plated on Delta, and your intraeuropean flight (if purchased in the US) was plated on Northwest Airlines. Those are the two carriers (NW acting as agent for KL as KL no longer plates their own tickets in the US) that would hold responsibility to get you from your origin to destiation as listed on those tickets.

As I see it you have a couple of options:

1) You can contact Expedia and get a refund.. then arrange alternate transportation to as close to LBA as you're likely to get.. as you mentioned it would probably be MAN. You'd still be responsible for your ground transportation.

2) You can contact Expedia and see if they will, on your behalf, contact NW/KL and see if they'll get you to MAN at no additional charge. You didn't say who you contacted about this option. I'd suggest Expedia since they issued the ticket. Since MAN and LBA are not coterm, they don't have to do it except as a gesture of customer service. Either way they're highly unlikely to pay for your ground transport from one city to the other.

Unfortunately, because you got split tickets, you're in a bit of a bind. KL haven't handed you a total human torture. They've gone through a schedule reduction to a city that doesn't have loads of service in the first place. I did some schedule browsing and on Christmas day, there isn't a whole lot to get you from point A to point B as far as getting you into LBA. Hindsight is 20/20 but if you had purchased the ticket and it was all plated on the same stock, whoever the ticket was issued on would have been obligated to get you from point A to point B and you probably would have gotten a little more cooperation but likely would have had to change your travel dates because of the service reduction either way.

Hope it works out for you either way.
 
ikramerica
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RE: KLM Cancel My Christmas Day Flight! (Me=Stranded)

Wed Oct 26, 2005 2:46 am

yes, they should put you into MAN as an "open jaw" without penalty, then you just need to hop a train to Leeds. Not ideal, but that's the danger of doing a multi-stop flight into a small city...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
dutchjet
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RE: KLM Cancel My Christmas Day Flight! (Me=Stranded)

Wed Oct 26, 2005 2:57 am

AirScoot's advise and rationale is one hundred per cent correct.......I understand your situation, but having a split ticket is problematic here. Schedule cutbacks over the Christmas period are not uncommon, and you picked a difficult day for alternatives since (especially on intra-European flights) a very limited schedule tends to be operated on 24/25/26 December.

Since you are more or less locked into flying on 25th December, and you mentioned that the AMS-MAN flight is operating (double check this please) with seats available - focus on getting on to that particular flight. As KLM cancelled their service to LBA on 25 December, they should be willing to either (a) reroute you to MAN or (b) refund the ticket which will then allow you to purchase a new ticket into MAN. I would not expect any compensation - but it should not cost you signficantly more in the end. Of course, MAN is probably not as convenient as LBA, but you will work that out on your own.

As Expedia was your ticketing agent, there customer service (which usually is rather helpful) should be able to help you work this out. Good luck, I do hope that you get home in time for the holiday.
 
NetworkDoc
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RE: KLM Cancel My Christmas Day Flight! (Me=Stranded)

Wed Oct 26, 2005 3:02 am

Agree that it is probably not wise to cancel the whole trip as the longhaul sector would be too expensive by now. You could keep the flight as is but ask Expedia to substitute (if that is possible, else buy yourself and make sure your booking is protected, i.e. won't be cancelled automatically if you miss a sector) CDG-AMS-LBA with BA CDG-LHR (there are four flights showing on their website for Euro 60 on the day; AF are showing nothing) and then get a hire car ex-Terminal 4. Avis, for example, is showing cars available (i.e. they are open that day, whereas public transport is virtually non-existent, so don't bother). Roads are empty on that day, so you can be up North in about three hours. Better than being stranded, and with two more flights from CDG on your original routing, you might even be there earlier!  Smile
Flown: AB/BA/BD/BI/CX/DI/DL/KE/KL/LH/LT/LX/MH/NW/OZ/PR/QF/SN/SQ/TW/UA/VS/5J.
 
soups
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RE: KLM Cancel My Christmas Day Flight! (Me=Stranded)

Wed Oct 26, 2005 3:10 am

get a refund for the KL part and book yourself on CDG-LBA on BD they operate 3-4 daily flights
Next destinations, Suarabaya, beirut, paris, Accra
 
A350
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RE: KLM Cancel My Christmas Day Flight! (Me=Stranded)

Wed Oct 26, 2005 3:10 am

What about continuing from Paris to England on Eurostar train and then with other trains to Manchester. Certainly not the perfect solution, but it's possible, and between Paris and London it's also fast. You could also continue from London on an LCC.

The german rail website reveals that you can make Paris-Manchester in six hours by train (Paris Nord-London Waterloo and London Euston-Manchester Piccard)

A350
 
AirScoot
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RE: KLM Cancel My Christmas Day Flight! (Me=Stranded)

Wed Oct 26, 2005 3:20 am

Quoting Soups (Reply 6):
get a refund for the KL part and book yourself on CDG-LBA on BD they operate 3-4 daily flights

When I was looking at the other options to maybe suggest something for him I found that BD wasn't operating flights on the 25th to LBA from CDG either. I was hoping I'd come up with some flights to ask for... you never know if you don't ask.

LBA doesn't seem to have ANYTHING on that day that would connect with DL44 (the only flight CVG-CDG so that's what I was going for). All that comes up is an overnight connection in AMS. There are a couple of flights that start up on the 26th again, but not much.
 
Feroze
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RE: KLM Cancel My Christmas Day Flight! (Me=Strand

Wed Oct 26, 2005 3:22 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 3):
then you just need to hop a train to Leeds

Sorry to be a party-pooper here, but AFAIK the only trains that operate on Christmas Day in the UK are the dedicated airport expresses. In addition, there are no Eurostar or London Underground/Bus services at all.

Regards,

Feroze

[Edited 2005-10-25 20:23:24]
 
soups
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RE: KLM Cancel My Christmas Day Flight! (Me=Stranded)

Wed Oct 26, 2005 3:35 am

JET2 also not flying CDG-LBA on 25 december. nothign even for LON-LBA was thinking CDG-LHR-LBA
Next destinations, Suarabaya, beirut, paris, Accra
 
soups
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RE: KLM Cancel My Christmas Day Flight! (Me=Stranded)

Wed Oct 26, 2005 3:44 am

Looks like you are stuck mate i checked every single airline that flies into LBA and NOTHING on the 25. even tried from dublin, lhr, belfast, brussels, amsterdam.... even low cost airline not flying on that day. i hope you have travel insurance
Next destinations, Suarabaya, beirut, paris, Accra
 
Pomnath
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RE: KLM Cancel My Christmas Day Flight! (Me=Stranded)

Wed Oct 26, 2005 3:46 am

Christmas in Paris is not a bad idea.

However, I do not see why it is so diffilcult to get from LHR or LGW to LBA by surface.
Sea to Sky, Racists should Die!!
 
ryanlock
Posts: 76
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RE: KLM Cancel My Christmas Day Flight! (Me=Stranded)

Wed Oct 26, 2005 3:49 am

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 1):
Hate to be a pain in the arse, but why are you doing such a weird routing?

I used my miles to upgrade on DL and the routing thru CDG was the only available flight.

Quoting AirScoot (Reply 2):
First off, because you bought this through Expedia, did you try to contact them to get them to refund the ticket due to a schedule change?

They will refund the ticket yes, however, it still doesn't make me any better off. If I get the ticket refunded and buy the CDG-AMS-MAN leg it will cost me more for a problem KLM caused in the first place. Why should I pay anymore for there change?

Quoting AirScoot (Reply 2):
2) You can contact Expedia and see if they will, on your behalf, contact NW/KL and see if they'll get you to MAN at no additional charge. You didn't say who you contacted about this option. I'd suggest Expedia since they issued the ticket. Since MAN and LBA are not coterm, they don't have to do it except as a gesture of customer service. Either way they're highly unlikely to pay for your ground transport from one city to the other

It is pointless contacting KLM as they just tell me to go through Expedia, which rightly so is what I need to do.

My DL flight is fully confirmed from CVG-CDG landing 8:45am on 25/12 so there is no way i can change this. I contacted DL and it was such a high amount to change for the 24/12 flight.

I know they won't pay for my ground transportation but what am I suppose to do? There is no public transport on Xmas Day (Trains, Busses etc.) At the end of the day I booked to go to LBA where I wanted to be on that exact date and now I wont be!

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 3):
yes, they should put you into MAN as an "open jaw" without penalty, then you just need to hop a train to Leeds. Not ideal, but that's the danger of doing a multi-stop flight into a small city...

The thing is - they said they WILL NOT do this. They won't send me on a AMS-MAN flight on that day. WHY - god only knows?!

My reservations consists of - 15/12 i travel from MAN-CDG on AF then return on KL. KL won't even put me on a direct CDG-MAN serice on the 25/12 with AF - they still are wanting to route me through AMS. If these two Companies are affiliated so closely then why not?! Whats the whole AF/KL Group all about then?!

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 4):
Since you are more or less locked into flying on 25th December, and you mentioned that the AMS-MAN flight is operating (double check this please) with seats available - focus on getting on to that particular flight. As KLM cancelled their service to LBA on 25 December, they should be willing to either (a) reroute you to MAN or (b) refund the ticket which will then allow you to purchase a new ticket into MAN.

As mentioned above they won't put me on the AMS-MAN flight. They will only offer a full refund, however, if i go to book the same flights now into MAN as LBA is not available (being 15/12/05 MAN-CDG - 25/12/05 CDG-AMS-MAN) then the ticket price is 400% more that what i originally paid.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 4):
As Expedia was your ticketing agent, there customer service (which usually is rather helpful) should be able to help you work this out. Good luck, I do hope that you get home in time for the holiday.

You are right they are being excellent with this. I am very happy with their customer service 110%!


Quoting NetworkDoc (Reply 5):
and then get a hire car ex-Terminal 4. Avis, for example, is showing cars available (i.e. they are open that day, whereas public transport is virtually non-existent, so don't bother). Roads are empty on that day, so you can be up North in about three hours. Better than being stranded, and with two more flights from CDG on your original routing, you might even be there earlier!

Thanks for this advice. It will be my last resort after I vigerously sort my head out with what's going to happen. Talk about stress!

Quoting Soups (Reply 6):
get a refund for the KL part and book yourself on CDG-LBA on BD they operate 3-4 daily flights

I WISH! - No flights on 25/12/05 I'm affraid!

Quoting A350 (Reply 7):
What about continuing from Paris to England on Eurostar train and then with other trains to Manchester. Certainly not the perfect solution, but it's possible, and between Paris and London it's also fast. You could also continue from London on an LCC.

Thanks for this advice, but like I mentioned above this will have to be a last resort until i make further calls to Expedia/KL.

This is really good of you all to advise me like this. Let me take this opportunity to thank you for all your help! I sincerly appreciate it.

Ryan
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lijnden
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RE: KLM Cancel My Christmas Day Flight! (Me=Stranded)

Wed Oct 26, 2005 3:52 am

On X-mas day most transportation is very limited with most airlines, bus companies, boats, and trains, all hardly running if at all. They even made a movie out of this with Steve Martin and John Candy back in the 80's. (OK it was for Thanksgiving ; edit)

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093748/

Just fly earlier and you will not have this problem

regards

[Edited 2005-10-25 20:53:41]
Be kind to animals! Next trip: ORF-ORD-NRT-IAH-ORF
 
ryanlock
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RE: KLM Cancel My Christmas Day Flight! (Me=Stranded)

Wed Oct 26, 2005 4:02 am

Quoting Pomnath (Reply 12):
Christmas in Paris is not a bad idea.

However, I do not see why it is so diffilcult to get from LHR or LGW to LBA by surface.

No public transport on Xmas day. I have only just got my licence to drive and don't want to be driving for 3 hours after all those flights. Plus it will mean more money at my expense!

Ryan
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ikramerica
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RE: KLM Cancel My Christmas Day Flight! (Me=Stranded)

Wed Oct 26, 2005 4:06 am

Quoting Feroze (Reply 9):
Sorry to be a party-pooper here, but AFAIK the only trains that operate on Christmas Day in the UK are the dedicated airport expresses. In addition, there are no Eurostar or London Underground/Bus services at all.

Ah, I see. National religious holiday and all.

Then it sounds like a long drive to pick him up. But England isn't THAT big a place...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
ryanlock
Posts: 76
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RE: KLM Cancel My Christmas Day Flight! (Me=Stranded)

Wed Oct 26, 2005 4:07 am

Quoting Lijnden (Reply 14):
They even made a movie out of this with Steve Martin and John Candy back in the 80's. (OK it was for Thanksgiving ; edit)

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093748/

Just fly earlier and you will not have this problem

regards

Great - I'll tell ya what - I'll watch that movie on my laptop over night on xmas day, laid on the floor in AMS then?! Ha-Ha Just kidding, hopefully i will find a solution.

You are right transportation is extremely limited. Thank you for your reply tho I appreciate your help.

Ryan
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ryanlock
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RE: KLM Cancel My Christmas Day Flight! (Me=Stranded)

Wed Oct 26, 2005 4:08 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 16):
Ah, I see. National religious holiday and all.

Then it sounds like a long drive to pick him up. But England isn't THAT big a place...

It's an even BIGGER place on Christmas day when no one is around with you and all you want to do is be at home with you family. Sad

Ryan
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lijnden
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RE: KLM Cancel My Christmas Day Flight! (Me=Stranded)

Wed Oct 26, 2005 4:17 am

Try some Arab airlines. It is well known that Muslims don't care that much about X-mas...

Good luck

PS When you are lying on the ground in AMS watching Planes, Trains and Automobiles guess what they are watching in LBA?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0099785/
Be kind to animals! Next trip: ORF-ORD-NRT-IAH-ORF
 
Lindy
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RE: KLM Cancel My Christmas Day Flight! (Me=Stranded)

Wed Oct 26, 2005 4:22 am

I think the best solution for you would be staying in AMS for a night and fly to your final destination on the 26th. You can probably get B&B close to the airport for about $50-$70. Its not that much. Its probably cheaper then renting a car, or rerouting you with other airlines via other cities.
Spend a night at AMS.

Rafal
BWIADCA - Nikon D100
 
ryanlock
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RE: KLM Cancel My Christmas Day Flight! (Me=Stranded)

Wed Oct 26, 2005 4:32 am

Quoting Lijnden (Reply 19):
PS When you are lying on the ground in AMS watching Planes, Trains and Automobiles guess what they are watching in LBA?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0099785/

I like your style! How funny.

At the end of the day I'll have to get it sorted and there is nothing I can do now. They aren't going to put the flight back on just for me.

My poor mum and dad might not have me home for Christmas. How bad?!

You gotta laugh, I suppose.... Keep a smile.

Thanks  Smile

Ryan
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CPH757
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RE: KLM Cancel My Christmas Day Flight! (Me=Stranded)

Wed Oct 26, 2005 4:49 am

Try this one....

From CDG to take AF to CPH, at 120€. The have plenty flights during the 25th december. Be sure to book a return ticket to get this fare.

From CPH, you can book a one-way ticket with SAS to Manchester for 110€, leaving 1415CET.

Both prices are inclusive all taxes and fees.
Last flight: SAW-CPH on H9 on 02/11/09 - Next Flights: 23/12/09 CPH-AAL on QI, 30/12/09 CPH-LHR on SK, 19/01/10 CPH-CDG-
 
soups
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RE: KLM Cancel My Christmas Day Flight! (Me=Stranded)

Wed Oct 26, 2005 4:50 am

Quoting CPH757 (Reply 23):
Try this one....

From CDG to take AF to CPH, at 120€. The have plenty flights during the 25th december. Be sure to book a return ticket to get this fare.

From CPH, you can book a one-way ticket with SAS to Manchester for 110€, leaving 1415CET.

Both prices are inclusive all taxes and fees.

he can fly AF cdg-man direct
Next destinations, Suarabaya, beirut, paris, Accra
 
sk601
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RE: KLM Cancel My Christmas Day Flight! (Me=Stranded)

Wed Oct 26, 2005 5:11 am

It's not that difficult. If KL cancels your flight, well don't bother to fly them, if you are offered a full refund! Take the refund and book CDG-MAN with AF, nonstop. According to AFs website, still many flights available for £57.=. A good deal in my opinion. Is your flight on 15/12 booked together with the KL stretch? If so, cancel everything and book a return with AF from MAN. You might get a better fare than the one-way CDG-MAN.

Good luck.


p.s. I am sure your familie will pick you up at MAN airport on X-mas day; they will be happy to see you as well!  white 
 
CPH757
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RE: KLM Cancel My Christmas Day Flight! (Me=Stranded)

Wed Oct 26, 2005 5:13 am

hehe ok, thought he had checked out that possibility, since so many suggestions had come up here...

If he can get a refund from KLM on the last part of the itinerary and fly CDG-MAN, what the devil is the problem then? I mean, less than 200€ from CDG-MAN directly with AF, isn't that big deal?
Last flight: SAW-CPH on H9 on 02/11/09 - Next Flights: 23/12/09 CPH-AAL on QI, 30/12/09 CPH-LHR on SK, 19/01/10 CPH-CDG-
 
LJ
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RE: KLM Cancel My Christmas Day Flight! (Me=Stranded)

Wed Oct 26, 2005 5:31 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 4):
Since you are more or less locked into flying on 25th December, and you mentioned that the AMS-MAN flight is operating (double check this please) with seats available - focus on getting on to that particular flight.

Only two flights are operating on December 25th between AMS and MAN. The only one which Ryanlock could get is the one leaving AMS at 14:00. However this means that he would have to take KL2008 from CDG at the latest.

The AMS-MAN flight is still nookable in the lowest fare classes thus it won't be very busy on that flight.
 
jmc757
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RE: KLM Cancel My Christmas Day Flight! (Me=Stranded)

Wed Oct 26, 2005 5:52 am

Best I can think of is Air France as others have suggested. This came up:

Sunday 25th December AF2268 13:20 CDG-MAN
318 Economy Class

Saturday 31 December AF2269 15:40 MAN-CDG
319 Economy Class
£ 143.30

Either cancel your KLM flight, book that and forget about the return, or even better cancel all your KLM flights and get an AF return you can use for your flight back to the states?
 
ryanlock
Posts: 76
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 4:40 am

RE: KLM Cancel My Christmas Day Flight! (Me=Stranded)

Wed Oct 26, 2005 6:08 am

Quoting SK601 (Reply 25):
It's not that difficult. If KL cancels your flight, well don't bother to fly them, if you are offered a full refund!

This isn't the point. I ain't saying that I won't fly them again. My issue here is that they're being really harsh with flight changes. They will offer alternative dates or a full refund.... why can't they just put me on the AMS-MAN flight on Christmas day?... that's my question!

They will not do this, which to me seems rather unusual. Considering any airline would want business, you'd think they'd gladly put me on the AMS-MAN to shut me up. If they would do this then GREAT, its the fact they won't!

Quoting CPH757 (Reply 26):
If he can get a refund from KLM on the last part of the itinerary and fly CDG-MAN, what the devil is the problem then? I mean, less than 200€ from CDG-MAN directly with AF, isn't that big deal?

Again, I respect this, however like I mentioned previously. If AF/KL are so closely affiliated then why can't KL just put me on the direct AF CDG-MAN flight on 25/12 anyway?

If I was to get a full refund for the WHOLE ticket (which is an option) then I would then pay more than what I originally paid to book the same flights I want with the same airlines.

What is the point getting a full refund and giving them more money for the same Itinerary just a change in final destination, when they caused this issue in the first place?

Quoting LJ (Reply 27):
The AMS-MAN flight is still nookable in the lowest fare classes thus it won't be very busy on that flight.

I'm not having a go at them or anything, it just baffles me why they cannot transfer me right onto a flight to MAN from CDG, whether it be direct or not. As LJ said in the above quote: "The flights are still bookable in the lowest fare"... so what's the problem with just changing me to that flight?

Again I really appreciate all of your help, thanks everyone!

Ryan
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rdwootty
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RE: KLM Cancel My Christmas Day Flight! (Me=Stranded)

Wed Oct 26, 2005 6:23 am

This just shows the difference between UK and USA, NO Englishman would book any flight to a small UK airport because the flights willl not operate .I am sure that LBA is in fact CLOSED that day. Birmingham used to shut on Christmas day up to about 5 years ago!!There are NO trains running that day or the next!!Very limited buses just to Oxford etc. So Just stop thinking about it and BOOK the Air France flight otherwise there will be no Christmas at home for you....
 
ryanlock
Posts: 76
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RE: KLM Cancel My Christmas Day Flight! (Me=Stranded)

Wed Oct 26, 2005 6:40 am

Quoting Rdwootty (Reply 29):
This just shows the difference between UK and USA, NO Englishman would book any flight to a small UK airport because the flights willl not operate .I am sure that LBA is in fact CLOSED that day. Birmingham used to shut on Christmas day up to about 5 years ago!!There are NO trains running that day or the next!!Very limited buses just to Oxford etc. So Just stop thinking about it and BOOK the Air France flight otherwise there will be no Christmas at home for you....

Maybe I miss understood you in this post by ummmm in-fact I am an English man. I was born and bread here and have lived here all my life!

Ummm maybe you made a show of yourself just then mate?

Considering flights were bookable to LBA on Christmas day then of course I would book them, anyone would! Especially if you needed to be home that day.

But - whooah, sir, you definitely sound like the typical grumpy old English man with your post just then. Eeeekk.

I'm sorry if the post made you mad but I was only sharing my story with everyone.

Ryan

[Edited 2005-10-25 23:43:56]

[Edited 2005-10-25 23:45:04]

[Edited 2005-10-25 23:45:44]
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CPH757
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RE: KLM Cancel My Christmas Day Flight! (Me=Stranded)

Wed Oct 26, 2005 6:53 am

Quoting Ryanlock (Reply 28):
If I was to get a full refund for the WHOLE ticket (which is an option) then I would then pay more than what I originally paid to book the same flights I want with the same airlines.

What is the point getting a full refund and giving them more money for the same Itinerary just a change in final destination, when they caused this issue in the first place?

I'm sorry, I misunderstood you. Have somekind grabbed that you had booked the CVG-CDG separately from the CDG-AMS-LBA leg. But anyway, i totally agree with you, that it is to lousy that KL/AF won't even book you on the CDG-MAN flight, or even speak to you, only referering to expedia.
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ryanlock
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RE: KLM Cancel My Christmas Day Flight! (Me=Stranded)

Wed Oct 26, 2005 7:47 am

Quoting CPH757 (Reply 31):
I'm sorry, I misunderstood you. Have somekind grabbed that you had booked the CVG-CDG separately from the CDG-AMS-LBA leg. But anyway, i totally agree with you, that it is to lousy that KL/AF won't even book you on the CDG-MAN flight, or even speak to you, only referering to expedia.

Oh don't worry about mis-understanding me. It's all good! But, yeah its daft. I just don't see the problem. Fair enough it was booked through expedia however still they tell me to call expedia who then put me on hold so they can call KLM themselves. Talk about stupid!

I will hopefully get it sorted out tomorrow, so I'll let you all know what happens!

And yeah the direct CDG-MAN flight they won't allow it for a reason that I cannot logically think.

Whatever..... mind blagging or what?!

Ryan
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PA110
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RE: KLM Cancel My Christmas Day Flight! (Me=Stranded)

Wed Oct 26, 2005 8:56 am

Quoting Ryanlock (Reply 30):
Considering flights were bookable to LBA on Christmas day then of course I would book them, anyone would! Especially if you needed to be home that day.

Unfortunately, you've just learned an important lesson not to travel on Christmas Day. I think it is extremely foolish that many airlines publish schedules for that day when historically, they have later cancelled service because a) the loads were so light and b) they claim they wish to give their staff the day off. Whatever the reason, year after year, many European/UK carriers do cancel a considerable portion of their flights.

OK, that said, you obviously didn't know that. Since you've booked with Expedia, don't bother trying to argue with KLM. It's already obvious that you're not making any progress. Try to get a supervisor at Expedia to push on your behalf for the proposed solution of routing direct CDG to MAN. If unable, see what Expedia will to to assist taking the KLM refund and applying to a new CDG-MAN flight.

But... be forewarned... there are no guarantees that the CDG-MAN flights won't ultimately be cancelled as well. It's a tough lesson, but one you'll remember in future years. Don't travel on Christmas Day! Happy Holidays!  Big grin
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ryanlock
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RE: KLM Cancel My Christmas Day Flight! (Me=Stranded)

Wed Oct 26, 2005 9:08 am

Quoting PA110 (Reply 33):
But... be forewarned... there are no guarantees that the CDG-MAN flights won't ultimately be cancelled as well. It's a tough lesson, but one you'll remember in future years. Don't travel on Christmas Day! Happy Holidays!

But if its unavoidable to travel on Christmas day then what can I do? I'd rather travel on Christmas Day and get home for it rather than not at all.

I know the deal with Chritsmas Day flying however just 8 Weeks prior to the date you don't expect it to be cancelled. 12 Weeks yeah but 8 is pushing it.

Ryan
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kgfive
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RE: KLM Cancel My Christmas Day Flight! (Me=Stranded)

Wed Oct 26, 2005 9:16 am

Sorry to be another " Party Pooper " but you know that most of UK is on holiday on Christmas Day why the hell are you planning to travel on the one day that UK is at home. My advice is if you are working on Christmas Eve, take a " sickie " and travel on 24th and save on the hassle. Just my opinion and saves on scanning the worlds airline schedules and headaches that incurs. Hope you get home to family and pull your cracker  Smile
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RE: KLM Cancel My Christmas Day Flight! (Me=Strand

Wed Oct 26, 2005 9:25 am

I hear ya, but its sad to say that these days, you just can't predict anymore.

Having worked for airlines in another life, I am really sad to see KLM refusing to be more accommodating. In my own recent dealings with KLM, I've found them micromanaging their revenue to the point of losing sight of the bigger picture. They recently lost 12 business class bookings from me because they refused to clear a space on a connection, even though the seat was available in each point to point market. Because this one passenger was part of the larger family all traveling together, and because KLM refused to budge on this one booking, the other 12 passengers cancelled and rebooked British Airways instead.

Although KLM has proven itself lately to be quite a profitable airline, and I have no doubt that micromanaging stupid stuff like this does improve their bottom line to a certain extent, I worry that KLM might end up winning a few battles and then ultimately losing the war as they continue to antagonize travelers over small cost items. They seem to be very "penny-wise and pound-foolish" these days.
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ryanlock
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RE: KLM Cancel My Christmas Day Flight! (Me=Stranded)

Wed Oct 26, 2005 9:30 am

Quoting Kgfive (Reply 35):
Sorry to be another " Party Pooper " but you know that most of UK is on holiday on Christmas Day why the hell are you planning to travel on the one day that UK is at home. My advice is if you are working on Christmas Eve, take a " sickie " and travel on 24th and save on the hassle. Just my opinion and saves on scanning the worlds airline schedules and headaches that incurs. Hope you get home to family and pull your cracker

*BANG* I think my cracker has been pulled early - with nothing inside Sad.

I couldn't avoid traveling on Christmas Day as I get back from the USA that day into CDG. The reason as mentioned before why I am flying into CDG is because it was the only availability DL had for a BizElite Upgrade. Hence booking flight legs which were available at the time, to travel to my local airport from CDG.

No i don't work either - I'm a student.

Ryan
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ryanlock
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RE: KLM Cancel My Christmas Day Flight! (Me=Stranded)

Wed Oct 26, 2005 9:37 am

Quoting PA110 (Reply 36):
Although KLM has proven itself lately to be quite a profitable airline, and I have no doubt that micromanaging stupid stuff like this does improve their bottom line to a certain extent, I worry that KLM might end up winning a few battles and then ultimately losing the war as they continue to antagonize travelers over small cost items. They seem to be very "penny-wise and pound-foolish" these days.

Yes I agree!

I actually have never flown or dealt with KLM before. I understand that flight schedules can change and especially on Christmas Day, however, the fact that KLM just will not put me on the AMS-MAN flight the same day really isn't fair.

I never speak badly of any airline, however in the future I will quietly be aware of the KLM cooperation with re-scheduling etc.

Granted - they have offered a full refund but you would think that KLM would just put me on another of their flights which is convenient to me, not just to be able to keep my money but for good customer satisfaction.

Anyhow...

Ryan
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PA110
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RE: KLM Cancel My Christmas Day Flight! (Me=Strand

Wed Oct 26, 2005 9:39 am

Quoting Ryanlock (Reply 37):
I am flying into CDG is because it was the only availability DL had for a BizElite Upgrade.

You're getting a free upgrade. I realize that there is a principle at stake, but isn't it worth it to pay whatever small difference there might be between the KLM refund and a new ticket on AF direct to MAN?

Or, are you willing to sacrifice your upgrade to alter your dates?
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ryanlock
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RE: KLM Cancel My Christmas Day Flight! (Me=Stranded)

Wed Oct 26, 2005 9:48 am

Quoting PA110 (Reply 39):
You're getting a free upgrade. I realize that there is a principle at stake, but isn't it worth it to pay whatever small difference there might be between the KLM refund and a new ticket on AF direct to MAN?

Or, are you willing to sacrifice your upgrade to alter your dates?

Well of course it is worth paying for the flight from CDG-MAN direct because I wouldn't want to jeopardise my upgrade. But you are missing my point.

My point being that KL/AF are affiliated partners and because KLM have cancelled my CDG-AMS-LBA flight then they should just be able to put me on this direct CDG-MAN AF flight for no charge, considering the lowest fares are still selling on that flight.

Why should I declare a refund from them and then go on to pay more for the direct CDG-MAN flight when they should just change it for me automatically? Get me? Although it is with a different airline, they are still affiliated partners, hence the "Air France & KLM Group."

Ryan
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RE: KLM Cancel My Christmas Day Flight! (Me=Stranded)

Wed Oct 26, 2005 9:49 am

I laught at the most amazing routings that these sites can bring up, and makes me wonder about bags really making it.

BWI-LAX

one time the system threw out BWI-CVG-ATL-IAD-LAX

on DL-FL-UA respectively for the lowest fare... and alone
IAD-LAX was twice the price and you cant cut in the ticket
that the travel site gives you.
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N1120A
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RE: KLM Cancel My Christmas Day Flight! (Me=Stranded)

Wed Oct 26, 2005 9:53 am

Quoting Ryanlock (Reply 13):
They will refund the ticket yes, however, it still doesn't make me any better off. If I get the ticket refunded and buy the CDG-AMS-MAN leg it will cost me more for a problem KLM caused in the first place. Why should I pay anymore for there change?

You shouldn't. European laws about air carriers have become quite pro-passenger lately and AF/KL have to find you a way to your destination in reasonable time. They are not allowed to put you in this situation and then give you an unreasonable alternative, particularly when there are reasonable alternatives available. If I were you, I would threaten to complain to the European Commission if they don't find you a way to MAN or LBA
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PA110
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RE: KLM Cancel My Christmas Day Flight! (Me=Stranded)

Wed Oct 26, 2005 9:53 am

Quoting Ryanlock (Reply 40):
Why should I declare a refund from them and then go on to pay more for the direct CDG-MAN flight when they should just change it for me automatically? Get me? Although it is with a different airline, they are still affiliated partners, hence the "Air France & KLM Group."

Because even though they are still partners (as well as owned by AF), they still keep separate books, and separate profit margins. This could possibly be a hiccup in the system, or just KLM being its usual incredibly miserly self. I agree with you. It is not good customer service, and it diminishes the perceived value of the group.
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ryanlock
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RE: KLM Cancel My Christmas Day Flight! (Me=Stranded)

Wed Oct 26, 2005 10:07 am

Quoting PA110 (Reply 43):
Because even though they are still partners (as well as owned by AF), they still keep separate books, and separate profit margins. This could possibly be a hiccup in the system, or just KLM being its usual incredibly miserly self. I agree with you. It is not good customer service, and it diminishes the perceived value of the group

Of course it does thanks for your agreement.

Fair enough if it was any other day in the year, I may be able to understand but Christmas Day. You'd think they'd have a heart and try to get me home wouldn't you - on a different flight. But NO, all they were telling the lass on the other end of the expedia phone was "We will only offer a Refund or change of flight the day before or after, based on availability"

*sighs*

Ryan
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PA110
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RE: KLM Cancel My Christmas Day Flight! (Me=Strand

Wed Oct 26, 2005 10:13 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 42):
You shouldn't. European laws about air carriers have become quite pro-passenger lately and AF/KL have to find you a way to your destination in reasonable time. They are not allowed to put you in this situation and then give you an unreasonable alternative, particularly when there are reasonable alternatives available. If I were you, I would threaten to complain to the European Commission if they don't find you a way to MAN or LBA

This might not be successful, because the transaction technically took place in the USA, and thus not subject to European law.

From Expedia UK's own site:

Agreement between customer and Expedia, Inc.

This Web site is offered to you, the customer, by Expedia, Inc., 3150 139th Avenue SE, Bellevue, WA 98005, USA., conditioned on your acceptance without modification of the terms, conditions and notices contained herein. Your use of this Web site constitutes your agreement to all such terms, conditions, and notices. If you do not agree with these terms and conditions then you are not authorised to use this Web site
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ryanlock
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RE: KLM Cancel My Christmas Day Flight! (Me=Stranded)

Wed Oct 26, 2005 10:23 am

Quoting PA110 (Reply 45):
This might not be successful, because the transaction technically took place in the USA, and thus not subject to European law

I obviously didn't make it clear. I do apologise.

The transaction was made in the UK on Expedia.co.uk

My DL flights are in a totally different itinerary that I booked separately.

Even this way, still doesn't justify KLM's inconsiderate alternatives.

Ryan
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Lufthansa
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RE: KLM Cancel My Christmas Day Flight! (Me=Stranded)

Wed Oct 26, 2005 10:38 am

Ryan

I think you're going to have to get tough with them on this one. I would give them several options... explain that you are a loyal skyteam customer and you have flown in on DL...I doubt they're going to want to rebook you from that one but perhaps explain you're happy to get on a KLM flight if you could retain your class of travel and travel earlier.

Other than that I think you're going to have to play hardball. Push the christmas part... very very hard...
Do you know anybody that has any significant standing in the community, such as a Member of Parliment? If such a person was to make a call on your behalf they may be willing to be a little more flexible. (especially if they were to suggest that such an action may be in breach of EU law!!!! no middle level manager wants to be responsible for causing action to be taken against the company just to make a very small saving).
Also NEVER take no from a person who can't say yes. It could very well be that the KLM agents you are speaking too are just applying the rules... ask to speak to somebody higher up and if that fails, somebody higher up again. Do this fast because if you make no progress you're going to need to book that Air France flight.
But remember most of all.
NEVER TAKE NO FROM A PERSON WHO CAN'T SAY YES
 
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PA110
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RE: KLM Cancel My Christmas Day Flight! (Me=Stranded)

Wed Oct 26, 2005 10:46 am

Sorry Ryan, I should have read further down the page on the Expedia.co.uk site. Even though they are a division of the parent US company, it looks like they have a UK sub-corporation to be in compliance with UK laws. I honestly don't know if N1120A's suggestion would work. I suspect KLM is simply taking the Ryanair approach: "we sold you a cheap fare (through Expedia) - stop complaining".

I suggest a complaint to KLM customer relations anyway. While it might not help in this situation, if enough people complain, they might start getting the message. In any case, good luck. Hope you get back home in time for Christmas.

Cheers.
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ryanlock
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RE: KLM Cancel My Christmas Day Flight! (Me=Stranded)

Wed Oct 26, 2005 10:50 am

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 47):
Ryan

I think you're going to have to get tough with them on this one. I would give them several options... explain that you are a loyal skyteam customer and you have flown in on DL...I doubt they're going to want to rebook you from that one but perhaps explain you're happy to get on a KLM flight if you could retain your class of travel and travel earlier

Well thanks very much Lufthansa. I actually will be a Delta Silver Medallion member after I complete the DL44 flight. Which obviously makes me a SkyTeam Elite member.

I told them this and they wouldn't have any of it. It frustrates me they are making me deal through expedia because some expedia employee's (no offence) don't know what medallions members are etc. They just do their job they have been trained to do. If KLM would let me speak to them direct I would be able to lay this down.

Yes, I could speak to my local councilor about this if they didn't offer me the same day CDG-MAN flight. I am calling them 1st thing tomorrow and boy will I be firm.

Obviously ranting and raving isn't going to work. I wouldn't do such a thing anyhow, however something has to be sorted fast before like you mention, that CDG-MAN flight fills up.

I appreciate your help Lufthansa! Thank you!

Ryan
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