Marambio
Topic Author
Posts: 1145
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 9:41 am

Aerolíneas Argentinas Might Get 787 & Withdraw 342

Wed Oct 26, 2005 6:56 am

Good afternoon gentlemen,

According to some insiders I have contact with, Aerolíneas Argentinas is considering selling its Airbus A340-200 to Pegasus. Bought during the Iberia-SEPI administration, the A342s are still being paid by Aerolíneas through a mortage loan they got. The same sources state Pegasus already has some clients interested in those aircraft.

On the other hand, on Wednesday October 12th, a delegation from Boeing landed in Buenos Aires. They met with some members of AR's board, and introduced them to the type of airplane. However, if they reach an agreement, the delivery should take place by 2011.

I personally believe Aerolíneas will stick around with its A342s until they get a good replacement, apparently the 787s. So we might see no changes in the next six years.

I will keep you updated.

Saludos,
Marambio
Aerolíneas Argentinas - La Argentina que levanta vuelo
 
juventus
Posts: 2017
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:12 pm

RE: Aerolíneas Argentinas Might Get 787 & Withdraw 342

Wed Oct 26, 2005 7:16 am

Quoting Marambio (Thread starter):
So we might see no changes in the next six years

Agree. What's the status of their 747s, are they staying or being replaced?
 
Brasuca
Posts: 684
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 12:09 am

RE: Aerolíneas Argentinas Might Get 787 & Withdraw 342

Wed Oct 26, 2005 7:41 am

Quoting Marambio (Thread starter):
So we might see no changes in the next six years.

So, no expansion plans either?  Confused

What about AR's late A346 order?
Haven't they made a decision regarding their status, whether cancelled or re-ordered?
Varig, Varig, Varig
 
blsbls99
Posts: 341
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 5:07 pm

RE: Aerolíneas Argentinas Might Get 787 & Withdraw 342

Wed Oct 26, 2005 7:50 am

Are AR in any position to afford new aircraft purchases? I thought they were in a recovery mode still?
319 320 313 722 732 733 735 73G 738 739 742 752 763 772 CRJ D9S ERJ EMB L10 M88 M90 SF3 AT4
 
SABE
Posts: 146
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 1:19 pm

RE: Aerolíneas Argentinas Might Get 787 & Withdraw 342

Wed Oct 26, 2005 7:51 am

Hola Marambio,

Great news! It'd be sweet to see the 787 in AR colors!!!

Maybe the Boeing team can offer some incentives to retire all the 732's?  Smile

Saludos,

--Lucas
TUS-DFW-EZE... can't wait to visit home again!
 
Hamlet69
Posts: 2460
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2000 2:45 am

RE: Aerolíneas Argentinas Might Get 787 & Withdraw 342

Wed Oct 26, 2005 10:46 am

Quoting SABE (Reply 4):
Maybe the Boeing team can offer some incentives to retire all the 732's?

I thought the 737-200's were now in the process of being retired in favor of used -300's and -500's?

Please correct if wrong.

Hamlet69
Honor the warriors, not the war.
 
Jj
Posts: 1189
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2001 7:40 am

RE: Aerolíneas Argentinas Might Get 787 & Withdraw 342

Wed Oct 26, 2005 11:00 am

yes indeed, the idea is to retire the 737-200's. However, it will be a sloooow process  Smile so far this year AR has returned 2 737's to their lessors and also retired one of its own.

The idea is to replace them with 737-300's (up to now only ONE aircraft of this type has been incorporated, and it's a cargo version!) and with 737-500 (by now all 7 ex air france planes are active and one ex China is still in maintenance).

As to the 747's, there are currently 2 active 400's, one 400 which is already painted and in final maintenance works, due to be incorporated soon, and there are also 2 200's flying. 3 more are leased to Air Plus, while the last one is in storage in EZE.

The idea of the 787 is sweeeeet. But not before 2011 though! I always thought that the ideal fleet for AR (internationally speaking) was the 787 family... I hope it happens!

The A342's won't leave the fleet soon though... AR needs them BADLY! And speaking of the A346, even though their are on order, AR has lost its deposits, and we probably won't ever see them flying here!  Sad

just my 2 cents!

jj
 
Lufthansa
Posts: 2303
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 6:04 am

RE: Aerolíneas Argentinas Might Get 787 & Withdraw 342

Wed Oct 26, 2005 12:23 pm

Well If AR, by all accounts they should because they appear to be doing well from Brasil pax + argy pax wanting to go to NZ/AUS, want to keep on flying to AKL and SYD, they're going to have to either keep those A340s, or start flying the 744s on this route. This route NEEDS etops freedom... it is one of the few that actually really NEEDS, but that southern ocean is simply empty.

Additionally, an ETOPS free aircraft would enable AR to launch a EZE-SYD non-stop transpolar service. That, could prove a very attractive edge over LAN by reducing flying times and eliminating the AKL stop. I think everybody is a little scared of this route, but, if it is ever going to happen this one simply MUST be a quadjet.
 
Tod
Posts: 1709
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:51 am

RE: Aerolíneas Argentinas Might Get 787 & Withdraw 342

Wed Oct 26, 2005 11:33 pm

Quoting Jj (Reply 6):
As to the 747's, there are currently 2 active 400's

Someone at AR mentioned to me that they were getting two of the ex-UA 744 from Victorville and planned to convert them to all Y class. Same planes or additional?

Tod
 
Thorben
Posts: 2713
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2005 10:29 pm

RE: Aerolíneas Argentinas Might Get 787 & Withdraw 342

Wed Oct 26, 2005 11:40 pm

Quoting Tod (Reply 8):
Someone at AR mentioned to me that they were getting two of the ex-UA 744 from Victorville and planned to convert them to all Y class. Same planes or additional?

IIRC their current 744s are ex-AC. But getting old 744s is cheaper than getting those A346s they have on order. It's a shame, the A346 would look so nice in their colors.
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011
 
ARGinLON
Posts: 550
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2005 6:26 pm

RE: Aerolíneas Argentinas Might Get 787 & Withdraw 342

Thu Oct 27, 2005 12:04 am

What is the configuration on the AR 744?
 
ba319-131
Posts: 8120
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 1:27 pm

RE: Aerolíneas Argentinas Might Get 787 & Withdraw 342

Thu Oct 27, 2005 12:14 am

I very much doubt AR have lost their deposits on the 346's, Airbus would love to see another operator of the 345/346.

I'm sure Airbus won't refund the money but it would still count towards payment of the new aircraft if AR proceeded with the 346 purchase.
111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,77L,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333
 
USADreamliner
Posts: 1211
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2005 1:33 pm

RE: Aerolíneas Argentinas Might Get 787 & Withdraw 342

Thu Oct 27, 2005 12:44 am

Quoting ARGinLON (Reply 10):
What is the configuration on the AR 744?

Boeing 747-200: 46 Club Condor 346 Economy Class
Boeing 747-400: 42 Club Condor 379 Economy Class

Love to see AR flying the 787!
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Aerolíneas Argentinas Might Get 787 & Withdraw 342

Thu Oct 27, 2005 4:15 am

Quoting Tod (Reply 8):
Someone at AR mentioned to me that they were getting two of the ex-UA 744 from Victorville and planned to convert them to all Y class. Same planes or additional?

Does UA have any 744s left in VCV that they aren't recalling?
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Tod
Posts: 1709
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:51 am

RE: Aerolíneas Argentinas Might Get 787 & Withdraw 342

Thu Oct 27, 2005 4:42 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 13):
Does UA have any 744s left in VCV that they aren't recalling?

As far as I've heard, there's a couple that belong to banks with pending sales to other operators.

Tod
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 4870
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

RE: Aerolíneas Argentinas Might Get 787 & Withdraw 342

Thu Oct 27, 2005 6:00 pm

Quoting Tod (Reply 8):
Someone at AR mentioned to me that they were getting two of the ex-UA 744 from Victorville and planned to convert them to all Y class. Same planes or additional?

These have different engines to those that were aquired from AC. To be honest i'm not sure why they chose the ex AC ones, being that they wanted the 4 ex CP birds all with GE power, PR then picked up one which was originally a PR order anyway leaving AR with only 3 and not to many if any other GE powered 744's in storage. Why didn't they go for the ex SQ, UA, KE birds that have been for sale in the last 2 years, all have P/W engines. Maybe better lease rates?

As to the 787 for AR, that sounds great! Guess they would use the 744 to AKL/SYD then, but we are talking 6 years away yet, by which time they may wish to replace the 744's aswell.

I'm surprised they haven't considered an EZE-SYD non stop aswell.
 
MD11junkie
Posts: 2499
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 4:59 am

RE: Aerolíneas Argentinas Might Get 787 & Withdraw 342

Thu Oct 27, 2005 6:37 pm

Quoting Thorben (Reply 9):
IIRC their current 744s are ex-AC. But getting old 744s is cheaper than getting those A346s they have on order. It's a shame, the A346 would look so nice in their colors.

Wrong, they are ex-CP   Boeing 747-475.

Quoting Marambio (Thread starter):
I personally believe Aerolíneas will stick around with its A342s until they get a good replacement, apparently the 787s. So we might see no changes in the next six years.

The best replacement for a quad, is a quad. A340s best replacement is another A340. I see NO place for the 787 in AR's current business model, un less they will use it to cover up 737-500s and the A310s. I personally believe the A340s SHOULD stay, and be replaced by A340-600s.

Quoting Brasuca (Reply 2):
So, no expansion plans either?

What about AR's late A346 order?

Hola Nadson!

Expansion plans are taking with current fleet (this takes into account the 3rd A310 and the 3rd and 4th 747-400 that are still NOT in service. The 4th hasn't been delivered yet). 3rd A310 is due soon.
As for the A346s order, I believe that one is in standby, and ARSA is negotiating terms with Airbus. This could also be some PR from Marsans to get a better price in the A340-600s. Now, I do see the 340-600 with the almighty Condor 

Quoting Tod (Reply 8):
Someone at AR mentioned to me that they were getting two of the ex-UA 744 from Victorville and planned to convert them to all Y class. Same planes or additional?

As far as I see it, AR wants to simplify the engine diversity that the previous administrations had been adding to the fleet.

747-200s: Pratt & Whitney JT9D
A340-200s: CFM International CFM56C
737-200s: Pratt & Whitney JT8D
MD-80/DC-9: Pratt & Whitney JT8D
Airbus A310: General Electric GE CF-6

With the fleet renewal:

747-200s: Pratt & Whitney JT9D
A340-200s: CFM International CFM56
737-200s: Pratt & Whitney JT8D
MD-80s: Pratt & Whitney JT8D
737-500s: CFM International CFM56
Airbus A310: General Electric GE CF-6
747-400s: General Electric GE CF-6

As you see, the bound to go - 742s and 732s, with PWs are being replaced by GE/Snecma powered engines, leading to a fleet simplification - maintenance mostly, due to all of them being GE products or subproducts. The MDs will be staying due to their economy and will provide for AU an excellent work and battlehorse.

EDIT: Point to this quote was, is that I see VERY difficult that AR will bring in another type of engine to the fleet, when I think they are trying to do the opposite.

Really, I don't see the 787 in AR - I believe this is pure PR... let's hope so.

NOTE: I don't want the A350 either

Cheers!  
Gastón - The MD11 Junkie

[Edited 2005-10-27 11:43:41]
There is no such thing as Boeing vs Airbus as the queen of the skies has three engines, winglets and the sweetest nose!
 
Thorben
Posts: 2713
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2005 10:29 pm

RE: Aerolíneas Argentinas Might Get 787 & Withdraw 342

Thu Oct 27, 2005 7:27 pm

Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 16):
As for the A346s order, I believe that one is in standby, and ARSA is negotiating terms with Airbus. This could also be some PR from Marsans to get a better price in the A340-600s. Now, I do see the 340-600 with the almighty Condor

That order is on standby. It hasn't been cancelled, but it hasn't been fulfilled either.
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011
 
atlasair
Posts: 99
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 1999 11:43 pm

RE: Aerolíneas Argentinas Might Get 787 & Withdraw 342

Fri Oct 28, 2005 7:37 am

nice news from AR . hope it works for them.
 
MD11junkie
Posts: 2499
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 4:59 am

RE: Aerolíneas Argentinas Might Get 787 & Withdraw 342

Fri Oct 28, 2005 8:46 am

Let me just make some corrections to my post, thanks to ZXV:

Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 16):
Airbus A310: General Electric GE CF-6

The Airbus' ordered in IB's era, are PW powered. So is the third. The variation between is the lower MTOW weight in the third one.

Quoting Thorben (Reply 17):
Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 16):
As for the A346s order, I believe that one is in standby, and ARSA is negotiating terms with Airbus. This could also be some PR from Marsans to get a better price in the A340-600s. Now, I do see the 340-600 with the almighty Condor

That order is on standby. It hasn't been cancelled, but it hasn't been fulfilled either.

And what did I just say?  Yeah sure

Cheers! wave 
Gastón - The MD11 Junkie
There is no such thing as Boeing vs Airbus as the queen of the skies has three engines, winglets and the sweetest nose!
 
EddieDude
Posts: 6177
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:19 am

RE: Aerolíneas Argentinas Might Get 787 & Withdraw 342

Fri Oct 28, 2005 12:48 pm

Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 19):
thanks to ZXV

Sorry to go off-topic, but where is he, by the way? Have not seen one single post from him (always very interesting and illustrative) in ages.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
MD11junkie
Posts: 2499
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 4:59 am

RE: Aerolíneas Argentinas Might Get 787 & Withdraw 342

Fri Oct 28, 2005 7:42 pm

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 20):
Sorry to go off-topic, but where is he, by the way? Have not seen one single post from him (always very interesting and illustrative) in ages.

Eddie,

Don't know, but he emailed me with the correct data and I'm grateful for that  Smile.

Cheers! wave 
Gastón - The MD11 Junkie
There is no such thing as Boeing vs Airbus as the queen of the skies has three engines, winglets and the sweetest nose!
 
EZEIZA
Posts: 4421
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 12:09 am

RE: Aerolíneas Argentinas Might Get 787 & Withdraw 342

Fri Oct 28, 2005 8:22 pm

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 20):
Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 19):
thanks to ZXV

Sorry to go off-topic, but where is he, by the way? Have not seen one single post from him (always very interesting and illustrative) in ages.

The last posts I remember from him were posted some time ago on a non-av thread about Malvinas. Maybe he got tired of a.net Big grin

More off topic, are we ever going to manage to do a BUE a.net meeting??
Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 4870
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

RE: Aerolíneas Argentinas Might Get 787 & Withdraw 342

Sun Oct 30, 2005 11:27 am

Where is the 4th 744 coming from?

Who is online