USADreamliner
Topic Author
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Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2005 1:33 pm

TAP And Macau

Thu Oct 27, 2005 6:33 am

TAP Air Portugal ever had flights connecting Portugal and Macau?
I just wonder, since Macau was (is?) a portuguese colony.What other cities in Asia TAP have flights?  Cool
 
yago
Posts: 228
Joined: Tue May 14, 2002 4:28 am

RE: TAP And Macau

Thu Oct 27, 2005 6:46 am

I can't see any Asia destination in their website  Sad

But you right. Did they fly to Macau one it was a Portuguese colony?
 
yago
Posts: 228
Joined: Tue May 14, 2002 4:28 am

RE: TAP And Macau

Thu Oct 27, 2005 6:47 am

Well I think I've just found the answer  Wink

http://airtransportbiz.free.fr/Networks/TAPMFM.html
 
CV990
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RE: TAP And Macau

Thu Oct 27, 2005 6:49 am

Hi!

Yes TAP had flights to Macau in late 90's, just a little before Macau was passed to China again and after Macau airport was opened. The flight was operated with the A340-300 and it was LIS/BRU/BKK/MFM. I think it lasted a few months!!!
Regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
LatinPlane
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RE: TAP And Macau

Thu Oct 27, 2005 7:47 am

The flight was a total waist of resources and it is said that it was one of the reasons why TAP was near bankruptcy. I do not remember the full details but according to what I've read, the Macau route was in fact directly responsible for a third of TAP losses during those years. Someone else should be able to give more details.

 Smile LatinPlane
Pan Am - The World's Most Experienced Airline.
 
A360
Posts: 426
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RE: TAP And Macau

Thu Oct 27, 2005 7:51 am

Why did they fly through BRU??

Why not just LIS-BKK-MFM??
 
JoFMO
Posts: 1840
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 1:55 am

RE: TAP And Macau

Thu Oct 27, 2005 8:44 am

TAP and Sabena were both part of the Swissair lead Qualiflyer Alliance. So TAP flow via BRU to get at least a little bit of passengers on board to BKK.
 
dutchjet
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RE: TAP And Macau

Thu Oct 27, 2005 8:59 am

TAP did fly to Macau via BRU with the A343, I believe that the flights operated 2 times per week in the mid 1990s. The demand was simply not there, and after losing a good amount of money flying this prestige route, TAP dropped the service.

One of the main reasons that TAP has the A343 in its fleet was to operate the route to Macau. The stop in BRU was to add pax (there were few) but also due to range issues - nonstop out of LIS to Macau was a bit long for TAP's early build A343s. As pointed out above, at the time, TAP and Sabena were related via the Swissair connection.

I do not recall the flights stopping in BKK, as mentioned above.
 
Br343
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RE: TAP And Macau

Thu Oct 27, 2005 9:04 am

Hi,

The initial routing was via SN's hub at Brussels, because Sabena was a commercial partner to that routing so initial routing was LIS-BRU-MFM, but didn't meet the expectations of both airlines (TAP and Sabena).

TAP changed the routing to LIS-BKG-MFM, hoping to get more traffic from the more popular Europe-Bangkok (BKK) flights. better, but didn't meet the expectations of TAP (profits).

TAP re-routed the operations as LIS-Istanbul (IST)-BKK-MFM, final routing, with a good Load of 84%.

LIS-MFM was a not a "Former" TAP routing, was a government Routing, and TAP suffered from that.

The routing starts with 30% load factor, when thy dropped, the Load factor are 84%, they dropped the Route after Swissair (at that time, a TAP partner and potencial owner) imposition, SR fly daily to Hong Kong, and do not want TAP flight to MFM.

TAP fly to MFM from 96 to 99.

Tree final notes:
First the Flight was not needed, they start them, then the Flights starts to get some success, they dropped.

Its a shame to Portugal don't have a link to it's colony.

Macau was as the first economic Region in 2004.

Regards
Ricardo
 
MarshalN
Posts: 1474
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 9:39 am

RE: TAP And Macau

Thu Oct 27, 2005 9:26 am

Well... you know, I just don't see why anyone would want to fly into MFM instead of HKG -- Macau is only a stone's throw away by boat, and while it's got lots of casinos, it's not a big foreign tourist destination and the colony wasn't big enough to sustain that route really.
 
jetdeltamsy
Posts: 2688
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2000 11:51 am

RE: TAP And Macau

Thu Oct 27, 2005 9:56 am

Quoting Latinplane (Reply 4):
The flight was a total waist of resources and it is said that it was one of the reasons why TAP was near bankruptcy

Yea, but european countries like to try to keep their former empire connected by air. It was a prestige thing.
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
brightcedars
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RE: TAP And Macau

Thu Oct 27, 2005 4:55 pm

There never was a LIS-BRU-BKK-MFM. Believe me there would have been people flying that BRU-BKK segment! It was always limited to LIS-BRU-MFM which indeed is a nonsense route. Guess the bilaterals between all the parties involved didn't allow for such flights (LIS-BRU-BKK-MFM) in which case they would have been successful.
Now I didn't say they would have been profitable.
I want the European Union flag on airliners.net!
 
LPLAspotter
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RE: TAP And Macau

Thu Oct 27, 2005 5:33 pm

Quoting A360 (Reply 5):
Why not just LIS-BKK-MFM??

they dropped BRU after awhile. Flew the BKK-LIS flight once. Load was very light and the flight very long.

cheers:
LPLAspotter
Nuke the Gay Wales for Christ
 
TAP1972
Posts: 385
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2004 2:20 am

RE: TAP And Macau

Thu Oct 27, 2005 5:50 pm

Quoting Br343 (Reply 8):
Its a shame to Portugal don't have a link to it's colony.

ex-colony.

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 10):
Yea, but european countries like to try to keep their former empire connected by air. It was a prestige thing.

Some but not all, if it's not profitable why flying. Prestige can be too expensive.


In the last year of operation I think it was included the boat/ferry connection from Macau to HOng Kong
 
CV990
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Joined: Sat May 22, 1999 3:49 am

RE: TAP And Macau

Thu Oct 27, 2005 10:52 pm

Hi!

My opinion was when portuguese government agreed with chinese government to built the airport at Macau it was a matter of months or years that TAP had ( at least during some time... ) to fly to Macau. But I agree that the flight to Macau was a mere "showing the flag when there is sometime still". I also think TAP used that flight to bring back some portuguese that were in Macau and left after China took it!!!! The reason why TAP routed the flight via BRU and BKK was like others said here to try to bring a slice of passangers from Europe to BKK but that never had any chance. TAP in the past also had some really stranges places to fly. I remember that in 1961 ( again the same type of aproach... ) TAP started a route from LIS to GOA, Portuguese India just a few months before India invaded those small tiny little places, there was a stop at Beirut and Damascus - now some people can ask why both places???? They are so close!!!! - well the syrians said if TAP planes would not stop at least a few times each months Syria would not allow TAP planes to overfly their air space!
In 1989 TAP was flying a direct flight from LIS to LAX with L1011-500 and that was stopped too a little latter.
I think after the revolution in 1974 TAP was trying to find herself in the civil aviation market, TAP lost Africa and needed to find new markets and that period I think ended after TAP dropping Macau! Now TAP has a great network and that's good!
regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
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eta unknown
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RE: TAP And Macau

Fri Oct 28, 2005 3:34 am

The route was planned to operate LIS-MUC-MFM, but LH objected to the MUC traffic rights, so operations commenced via BRU.
 
LPLAspotter
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RE: TAP And Macau

Fri Oct 28, 2005 7:13 am

Quoting CV990 (Reply 14):
In 1989 TAP was flying a direct flight from LIS to LAX with L1011-500 and that was stopped too a little latter.

Took that flight twice both ways. always full to LAX but coming back it was EMPTY. I had the whole rear section to myself. Great for sleeping, bad for TAP. Oh, by the way it was LAX-TER-LIS. I got off in TER

LPLAspotter
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