dhefty
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A350 Just An A330 Variant?

Thu Oct 27, 2005 1:04 pm

According to Flight International, Oct. 25th issue, page 43, "the A350 will be certified as an A330 variant". This is despite the fact that Airbus claims that the A350 is an all-new aircraft with little in common with the A330 and that only 10% of the parts between the two aircraft are interchangeable. I wonder how the aviation authorities will view the situation.

What do you think?
 
irelayer
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RE: A350 Just An A330 Variant?

Thu Oct 27, 2005 2:37 pm

I think that is just speculative cowdung. The A350 hasn't even been launched yet for Christ's sake!

-IR
 
MarshalN
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RE: A350 Just An A330 Variant?

Thu Oct 27, 2005 2:50 pm

Um, I thought they did earlier this month
 
dhefty
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RE: A350 Just An A330 Variant?

Thu Oct 27, 2005 2:51 pm

True, but when it is launched, will it truly be a variant, as Airbus says, or will it be an all-new aircraft, as Airbus also says?
 
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solnabo
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RE: A350 Just An A330 Variant?

Thu Oct 27, 2005 3:15 pm

It was called the A330 Light couple of years ago but they changed it to A350. Guess the outside will look like the A330, but with all-new composite

Micke//SE  wave 
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zeke
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RE: A350 Just An A330 Variant?

Thu Oct 27, 2005 3:25 pm

Quoting Dhefty (Thread starter):
This is despite the fact that Airbus claims that the A350 is an all-new aircraft with little in common with the A330 and that only 10% of the parts between the two aircraft are interchangeable. I wonder how the aviation authorities will view the situation.

Same as the 747-100 shares the same type certificate data sheet as the 747-400ER, or the 737-100 shares the same type certificate data sheet as the 737-900.
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
 
PlaneDane
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RE: A350 Just An A330 Variant?

Thu Oct 27, 2005 3:27 pm

Quoting Dhefty (Thread starter):
According to Flight International, Oct. 25th issue, page 43, "the A350 will be certified as an A330 variant". This is despite the fact that Airbus claims that the A350 is an all-new aircraft with little in common with the A330 and that only 10% of the parts between the two aircraft are interchangeable. I wonder how the aviation authorities will view the situation.

What do you think?

This is exactly what I predicted would happen because it is vastly less expensive and time consuming to certify an aircraft as a variant and for the A350, this really is the right choice.

For the fuselage, the A350 will be an A330 except for a different alloy used, which will account for a huge number of those new part numbers. Some parts of the existing A330 wing will be made from CFRP and the engines will come from the B787.

Those are clearly updates only to an existing certificated design and not what constitutes a totally new aircraft.

[Edited 2005-10-27 08:34:04]
 
Shenzhen
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RE: A350 Just An A330 Variant?

Thu Oct 27, 2005 3:32 pm

Having 90 percent new parts, or being nearly identical depends on whom Airbus are pitching the airplane.

If they are pitching to an A330 operator, then Airbus will go out of their way to show how many parts are interchangeable, thus reducing the Airlines spare part procurement.

If it is an Operator that has no A330s, they will probably pitch that it is basically an all new airplane.

Simply salesmanhsip.

I think most every airline know it is a derivative.

Cheers
 
ikramerica
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RE: A350 Just An A330 Variant?

Thu Oct 27, 2005 3:40 pm

Does that mean flight testing will be a shorter period? If so, why so long to EIS?

Also, with the "news" of doing the A350 treatment to the A340, but still calling it the A340, how is the A350 an entirely new aircraft and not the "LR/HGW" version of the A330?

This is not a knock on the aircraft, just a jab at the marketing department. I mean, considering how well the A330 is selling and how popular it is right now, one would almost thing calling the newer planes A330-800 and A330-900 would have made MORE sense to customers than A350, really selling the fleet commonality argument to those who already operate the A330 as well as those looking to replace their 767s and earlier A340s, MD11s, etc. And it also leaves room for a shorter range A330-500 to replace the 333.

But alas, there was a pissing contest, and it got the better of logic.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
Toulouse
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RE: A350 Just An A330 Variant?

Thu Oct 27, 2005 3:45 pm

Interesting post Ikramerica, and your point on an A330-800 or -900 does seem to make sense.
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monteycarlos
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RE: A350 Just An A330 Variant?

Thu Oct 27, 2005 3:46 pm

Why don't you take a step back and think about what you are trying to say?

After all, you are arguing over the name of a plane! Who cares? Airbus can market the thing however they want, they're the ones building it.

Quoting Dhefty (Thread starter):
I wonder how the aviation authorities will view the situation.

Probably the same as me, they won't give a s**t.
It's a beautiful night to fly like a phoenix...
 
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solnabo
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RE: A350 Just An A330 Variant?

Thu Oct 27, 2005 4:06 pm

Quoting PlaneDane (Reply 6):

"and the engines will come from B787"

Huh!

I thought the engines will be made by GE, and not for Boeing 787 alone! Monopoly?

Micke//SE  Wink
Airbus SAS - Love them both
 
Toulouse
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RE: A350 Just An A330 Variant?

Thu Oct 27, 2005 4:06 pm

Ok, in the end I think Munteycarlos has come out with the best response, and you know what Monteycarlos? You're totally right!

Quoting Monteycarlos (Reply 10):
Why don't you take a step back and think about what you are trying to say?

After all, you are arguing over the name of a plane! Who cares? Airbus can market the thing however they want, they're the ones building it.

Quoting Dhefty (Thread starter):
I wonder how the aviation authorities will view the situation.

Probably the same as me, they won't give a s**t.
Long live Aer Lingus!
 
PlaneDane
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RE: A350 Just An A330 Variant?

Thu Oct 27, 2005 11:03 pm

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 12):
Ok, in the end I think Munteycarlos has come out with the best response, and you know what Monteycarlos? You're totally right!

Quoting Monteycarlos (Reply 10):
Why don't you take a step back and think about what you are trying to say?

After all, you are arguing over the name of a plane! Who cares? Airbus can market the thing however they want, they're the ones building it.

Quoting Dhefty (Thread starter):
I wonder how the aviation authorities will view the situation.

Probably the same as me, they won't give a s**t.

Toulouse and Monteycarlos, you're both very wrong! It does matter to aviation authorities and it needs to matter to Airbus and its stakeholders!

The difference in cost and time is huge and will contribute to whether a program is even considered viable or not!

Which aircraft certification programs have either of you worked on? Please share your experiences with us.
 
BlueSky1976
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RE: A350 Just An A330 Variant?

Thu Oct 27, 2005 11:11 pm

Nothing wrong with that. Happened in the past before.
MD-11 was certified as a DC-10 variant, thought McDonnell Douglas was pitching it to the airlines as an "all-new" airplane.
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DAYflyer
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RE: A350 Just An A330 Variant?

Thu Oct 27, 2005 11:38 pm

Wow, this really takes the wraps off the truth about the A-350 then! So it really is nothing more than a variant, a warmed over A-330. I think this is really a mistake by Airbus in the long term competition against the 787.  stirthepot 
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BlueSky1976
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RE: A350 Just An A330 Variant?

Fri Oct 28, 2005 12:00 am

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 15):
So it really is nothing more than a variant, a warmed over A-330. I think this is really a mistake by Airbus in the long term competition against the 787.

737NG was also just a warmed-over 737 and look how many frames it has sold... Don't write the plane off until it proves itself in service...
POLAND IS UNDER DICTATORSHIP. PLEASE SUPPORT COMMITTEE FOR DEFENSE OF DEMOCRACY, K.O.D.
 
PlaneDane
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RE: A350 Just An A330 Variant?

Fri Oct 28, 2005 12:07 am

Quoting Solnabo (Reply 11):
Quoting PlaneDane (Reply 6):


"and the engines will come from B787"

Huh!

I thought the engines will be made by GE, and not for Boeing 787 alone! Monopoly?

Micke//SE

You are correct. Well, you know what I meant to say, anyway...
 
NAV20
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RE: A350 Just An A330 Variant?

Fri Oct 28, 2005 12:30 am

Good Steve Creedy article here comparing the two. Nice contrast in conversational styles between the two 'company spokesmen', too  Smile:-

Airbus (Leahy) -

"It's an all new airplane," says Leahy. "We're spending 4.35 billion euros - that's about $US5.5 billion. Our colleague (Boeing) is spending about $US6 billion on their program so we're both designing all-new aircraft for the 21st century.

"Ours is coming out a little later than theirs and taking advantage of more state-of-the-art improvements in technology."


Boeing (Tinseth) -

"So when we take a look at the capabilities of our airplane and the Airbus airplane, we just see so many advantages because they're really working with a derivative aircraft. (It's) an airplane we just don't think quite matches up to what we can do in our all-new airplane."

"When we take a look at the two airplanes again, (they're) very close in seating, very close in range (and) our airplane weighs about 60,000 pounds less when it's at the end of the runway ready to take off."

"At the end of the day, he says, it comes down to the experts at Qantas and other airlines "taking that really sharp pencil" to the aircraft."


http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au.../0,5744,17055201%255E23349,00.html
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
jacobin777
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RE: A350 Just An A330 Variant?

Fri Oct 28, 2005 1:17 am

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 18):

"At the end of the day, he says, it comes down to the experts at Qantas and other airlines "taking that really sharp pencil" to the aircraft."

smartest qoute yet... thumbsup 
"Up the Irons!"
 
Toulouse
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RE: A350 Just An A330 Variant?

Fri Oct 28, 2005 1:23 am

Quoting IRelayer (Reply 1):
I think that is just speculative cowdung. The A350 hasn't even been launched yet for Christ's sake!

Ehmmm, it WAS actually launched in early October, the 6th I believe...

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 16):
737NG was also just a warmed-over 737 and look how many frames it has sold... Don't write the plane off until it proves itself in service...

Very well said BlueSky1976
Long live Aer Lingus!
 
dhefty
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RE: A350 Just An A330 Variant?

Fri Oct 28, 2005 3:19 am

Quoting PlaneDane (Reply 6):
Those are clearly updates only to an existing certificated design and not what constitutes a totally new aircraft.

I tend to agree with those who feel that it would have been better to position the aircraft as perhaps an A330NG or A330-500. It seems to me that it isn't a good idea to seem to obsolete their best-selling wide-body product.

The other thing that occurs to one is why it should take so long to produce a derivative?
 
ikramerica
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RE: A350 Just An A330 Variant?

Fri Oct 28, 2005 6:00 am

Quoting Dhefty (Reply 21):
The other thing that occurs to one is why it should take so long to produce a derivative?

That's what I don't get. Why so long and expensive? Same time frame and cost as the 787 from all accounts, yet not a clean sheet design.

Are they really just waiting on the engines?

Mike
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
zvezda
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RE: A350 Just An A330 Variant?

Fri Oct 28, 2005 6:04 am

I generally try to avoid semantic arguments, but I'll just pipe in that I think it's fair to call the A350 "new" but not fair to call it "all-new". For whatever that's worth.

If Airbus can get it certified as an A330 derivative and thereby save money, that's great. The less the bureaucrats force Airbus to waste the better.
 
ikramerica
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RE: A350 Just An A330 Variant?

Fri Oct 28, 2005 6:36 am

It is all semantics, and I see on some levels (marketing, hubris) why it's called the 350. Also, it makes it seem like the next generation of both 330 AND 340, while an A330-800 would not sound like that.

But people ask: why did they start with 800,900.

My answer is this. Because not too long ago, Airbus clearly said that they could match the 787 JUST with engines and avionics upgrades on the 330, and thus they had already planned on doing that and calling it the 330-800 and 330-900. After all, they say airlines and pax already prefer the 330/340 fuselage design to anything else out there, so why change it?

Then, as things progressed, they saw customers demanded more than that, including some of the other features of the 787, and A made more changes, and decided to call it the 350, since they saw it would be replacing 342/3/4s as well (much how a 787-10 will take out the 772ER and maybe LR if there's a 787-10LR). But the 800,900 stayed on with the name change out of consistency, and because there won't be MORE planes based on this platform. We might very well see a reduced weight 350-500 or 350-300 or something to supplant the 333 in a few years. but they can only do so much at a time.

Just my view on how it came about.

Either way, this is the last plane you will see based on this fuselage, whatever they want to call it.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
mham001
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RE: A350 Just An A330 Variant?

Fri Oct 28, 2005 6:37 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 22):
That's what I don't get. Why so long and expensive? Same time frame and cost as the 787 from all accounts, yet not a clean sheet design.

Are they really just waiting on the engines?

I think you are seeing some results from Boeings work to decrease development time. They fully expect to have the ability to clean sheet a plane in 3 years and are hoping for 18 months. This is going to be long term advantage for Boeing.
 
zvezda
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RE: A350 Just An A330 Variant?

Fri Oct 28, 2005 6:45 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 24):
(much how a 787-10 will take out the 772ER and maybe LR if there's a 787-10LR).

Certainly the A350-900 and B787-10 will kill the B777-200ER. However, there is no way that the B787 can touch the B777-200LR unless Boeing replaces the wing and landing gear. To compete with the B777-200LR, a B787 would need a MTOW close to 650,000 lbs. There is no way to get to even 600,000 lbs. with the B787's current wing and landing gear. I don't see this happening. Boeing has no need to increase the B787's MTOW to 600,000+ lbs.
 
TinkerBelle
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RE: A350 Just An A330 Variant?

Fri Oct 28, 2005 7:10 am

Yeeah the A350 is an A330 on steroids but look at how successful the A330 is! I doubt it makes a difference whether it's certified as a variant or not as long as it's efficient enough to compete with the 787. Chances are, it'll lag behind the 787 but hey, all those airlines ordering it couldn't be that stupid.

Quoting IRelayer (Reply 1):
I think that is just speculative cowdung. The A350 hasn't even been launched yet for Christ's sake!

Oooh no, don't tell me that was a 'young A380' they launched in September and they're just watching her grow to full size.  biggrin 
If you are going through hell, keep going.
 
ikramerica
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RE: A350 Just An A330 Variant?

Fri Oct 28, 2005 7:29 am

Quoting TinkerBelle (Reply 27):
Yeeah the A350 is an A330 on steroids but look at how successful the A330 is!

Please don't let this thread turn negative. Posts have clearly indicated the A330 is successful and continues to be so in the future.

The subject title would be better if it didn't have the negative word "just" in it, but I guess since A has been overhyping the newness, "just" is "justified."

But A is not wrong that the A330 is superior to the 767, so while B had to scrap the 767 and replace it with a new design, A could improve on the A330 instead. That's a valid point and will serve them well.

The question is why call it an A350 (we've established it's about branding), and why is it costing $5+ billion. At what point does calling it "new" and spending "new" money conflict with keeping the limitations of the A330 shape. It set a standard, but honestly, the slightly larger size of the 787 and oval shape offers some interior advantages in space utilization.

The A350 will be a great plane. But as enthusiasts, I guess we can say "if only it were more new..."
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
TinkerBelle
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RE: A350 Just An A330 Variant?

Fri Oct 28, 2005 7:37 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 28):
Please don't let this thread turn negative. Posts have clearly indicated the A330 is successful and continues to be so in the future.

Woow, put down the cool aid! In what way is my post negative? All I said is whether or not the A350 is an A330 variant, the A330 itself is a heck of a successful airplane so logic would tells us an A330 on steroids (A350) would be even more successful.... I personally don't care much about the A330's (or A350's) looks but you'll be surprised that it's sister the A340 is my 2nd favorite plane.
If you are going through hell, keep going.
 
ikramerica
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RE: A350 Just An A330 Variant?

Fri Oct 28, 2005 7:43 am

Not saying you were negative, but that you were starting us down a path of an argument by defending the A330 when nobody was attacking it!

It's so easy to start a war around here, that getting all "A330 is great" when nobody was saying it isn't would start to get people on here saying "oh yeah, then how come X and Y and Z."

It is a great plane, but not perfect, and again, if you are spending $5+ billion on development and using new materials, there is an argument for a new fuselage and/or wing to maximize investment.

But you see, now I'm getting into the A330 isn't perfect area, and the war is going to start.

I'm guilty. Throw away the key.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
TinkerBelle
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RE: A350 Just An A330 Variant?

Fri Oct 28, 2005 7:53 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 30):
But you see, now I'm getting into the A330 isn't perfect area, and the war is going to start.

I'm guilty. Throw away the key.

lol... You're right although a little debate as long it's logical is okay.
If you are going through hell, keep going.
 
dhefty
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RE: A350 Just An A330 Variant?

Fri Oct 28, 2005 7:59 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 28):
But A is not wrong that the A330 is superior to the 767, so while B had to scrap the 767 and replace it with a new design, A could improve on the A330 instead. That's a valid point and will serve them well.

Ikramerica, I agree in general, however even though a derivative might serve them well for a time, I don't see how it can put them in a leadership position in the most critical wide-body market, since most A350 orders will actually take away from the A330 market. I just looks to me like Airbus is simply hoping that the A330 will sell well for the next 10 years, as Leahy has said. That seems a rather fragile hope to me. Early indications (Northwest and Korea come to mind) seem to indicate that even stalwart A330 customers see the benefit of the B787. It will be very interesting to see what Qantas chooses. Boeing doesn't have the same worry, since the B767 is at the end of its long production run.
 
TinkerBelle
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RE: A350 Just An A330 Variant?

Fri Oct 28, 2005 8:13 am

Quoting Dhefty (Reply 32):
since most A350 orders will actually take away from the A330 market.

Talking of that, why would any airline order the A330 instead of the A350 in the future unless they buy it for much less or get a much earlier delivery slot?
If you are going through hell, keep going.
 
dhefty
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RE: A350 Just An A330 Variant?

Fri Oct 28, 2005 8:29 am

Quoting TinkerBelle (Reply 33):
Talking of that, why would any airline order the A330 instead of the A350 in the future unless they buy it for much less or get a much earlier delivery slot?

Delivery slot availability on the B787/A350 right now is nearly 4 years out, so on that basis the A330 will probably do OK - for a while.
 
ANZ772
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RE: A350 Just An A330 Variant?

Fri Oct 28, 2005 7:44 pm

Anyone got any Technical specs on the A350 vs B787?... Not likely...I guess the airline orders will do the talking.
 
stall
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RE: A350 Just An A330 Variant?

Fri Oct 28, 2005 8:28 pm

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 14):
Nothing wrong with that. Happened in the past before.
MD-11 was certified as a DC-10 variant, thought McDonnell Douglas was pitching it to the airlines as an "all-new" airplane.

 checkmark   checkmark   checkmark 

Perfect summary !!!
Flying is fun
 
zvezda
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RE: A350 Just An A330 Variant?

Fri Oct 28, 2005 8:38 pm

Quoting Dhefty (Reply 32):
I just looks to me like Airbus is simply hoping that the A330 will sell well for the next 10 years, as Leahy has said. That seems a rather fragile hope to me.



Quoting TinkerBelle (Reply 33):
Talking of that, why would any airline order the A330 instead of the A350 in the future unless they buy it for much less or get a much earlier delivery slot?

Leahy doesn't hope that the A330 will continue to sell for 10 more years. He hopes that the A330 will continue to sell long enough to fill the order pipeline until A350 production starts and then he hopes to be able to sell the A350 at good prices in good numbers. Anything he said beyond that is not a hope; it is either a lie or a delusion.

TinkerBelle is correct. Price and delivery slots are the only way to sell A330s against the A350. Airbus has no incentive to undercut themselves on price so, in the real world, the only reason airlines may still order the A330 is because delivery is available sooner than for the A350.
 
bells
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RE: A350 Just An A330 Variant?

Fri Oct 28, 2005 8:40 pm

In this technical report from the summer Flight quotes Airbus saying that the A350 will have 10% parts commonality with the A350.

http://www.flightinternational.com/A...2005/06/07/198871/A+cut+above.html
 
EddieGunsmoke
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RE: A350 Just An A330 Variant?

Fri Oct 28, 2005 8:51 pm

Quoting Dhefty (Reply 32):
I agree in general, however even though a derivative might serve them well for a time, I don't see how it can put them in a leadership position in the most critical wide-body market, since most A350 orders will actually take away from the A330 market

Excuse my ignorance, but why does it matter if airlines order the A350 instead of the A330? Wouldn't this be the same thing as if the A330 had been good enough to compete with the 787, as Airbus first claimed? Besides, the 787 will replace the 767 anyway, and to some extend even the 777. Isn't the situation the same for Boeing?

Thanks  

[Edited 2005-10-28 14:22:32]
 
monteycarlos
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RE: A350 Just An A330 Variant?

Sat Oct 29, 2005 2:52 am

Quoting PlaneDane (Reply 13):
Toulouse and Monteycarlos, you're both very wrong! It does matter to aviation authorities and it needs to matter to Airbus and its stakeholders!

yet you provide no reason why?

prove it.
It's a beautiful night to fly like a phoenix...
 
dhefty
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RE: A350 Just An A330 Variant?

Sat Oct 29, 2005 9:50 am

Quoting EddieGunsmoke (Reply 39):
Excuse my ignorance, but why does it matter if airlines order the A350 instead of the A330?

EddieGunsmoke, you do not speak out of ignorance. I agree, it really doesn't matter to the airline as long as they don't need the product for at least 4-5 years. But it might make a huge difference to the cash flow situation at Airbus, not to mention the effect on residual values for the A330. If I understand it correctly, the A350, even thought is a derivative, will have only 10% parts commonality with the A330. The situation is quite different for Boeing, because they are not projecting to make money on continued B767 production, and have thrown their entire weight behind a totally new product with totally new production techniques. The pressure will really build against Airbus for the next 5 years as they are locked into a situation where their cash flow depends on continued A330 sales and at high prices. The A330 is very expensive to produce compared to the B787.
 
Slarty
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RE: A350 Just An A330 Variant?

Sat Oct 29, 2005 10:20 am

Quoting Zeke (Reply 5):
Same as the 747-100 shares the same type certificate data sheet as the 747-400ER, or the 737-100 shares the same type certificate data sheet as the 737-900.

Sharing a "data sheet" is not the same as type certification.

LOL

[Edited 2005-10-29 03:21:34]
 
Dougloid
Posts: 7248
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RE: A350 Just An A330 Variant?

Sat Oct 29, 2005 11:02 am

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 14):
Nothing wrong with that. Happened in the past before.
MD-11 was certified as a DC-10 variant, thought McDonnell Douglas was pitching it to the airlines as an "all-new" airplane.

The way they did it was pitch it as all new, 'struth. It was a stretched DC10 with new engines, a glass cockpit, new engines and a lot of other upgrades. They even used some composites as I recall. Of course the pitch to the financial types was "it'll be easy and cheap to develop it's just a stretched DC10 with some upgrades so let us do it!"

As a practical matter, the certification effort was just as intensive. Development took several years, and each and every bit of structure had to be substantiated and sold to the Feds over again.

In the end the development of the MD11 took about 6-7 billion 1989-vintage dollars.

All of which is why I find the A350 development budget lowballed....figure 6-7 billion if they figure out how to get it done efficiently. And don't lets forget an all new composite wing, fuselage glare material, new engines and systems....there will be a little carryover from the A380 but not a great deal.

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 15):
Wow, this really takes the wraps off the truth about the A-350 then! So it really is nothing more than a variant, a warmed over A-330. I think this is really a mistake by Airbus in the long term competition against the 787.

Yeah the emperor is running out of duds isn't he? But it's really not anywhere near as simple as "Hey, Henri! Saw off another six or seven meters and grab a couple engines! We're building A350s today!"

Quoting Slarty (Reply 42):
Sharing a "data sheet" is not the same as type certification.

I concur.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
trevd
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RE: A350 Just An A330 Variant?

Sun Oct 30, 2005 2:08 am

When pushed on the the 10% parts commonality comment, my Airbus marketing rep admitted it was mostly due to different part numbers and tried to justify it with all the "Advanced Materials" being used.

To me the airplane looks exactly like Leahy first commented way back when. It's a warmed-over A330 with new engines and a composite wing.
 
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Revelation
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RE: A350 Just An A330 Variant?

Sun Oct 30, 2005 2:37 am

Quoting Bells (Reply 38):
In this technical report from the summer Flight quotes Airbus saying that the A350 will have 10% parts commonality with the A350.

Say again, Bells?

I think we know what you meant to say.

Yes, Airbus wants it both ways: an all new plane, so customers will get the benefit of technological advances, yet a variant of an existing plane, so customers will get the benefit of their current investments in training and infrastructure. And IMHO, customers will largely get it both ways. The new engines and wing will give them a great machine to fly, and it will be largely compatible with their current skill base and infrastructure. Nothing I'm saying is denigrating the B767 or B777 either.
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dhefty
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RE: A350 Just An A330 Variant?

Sun Oct 30, 2005 2:41 am

Quoting TrevD (Reply 44):
When pushed on the the 10% parts commonality comment, my Airbus marketing rep admitted it was mostly due to different part numbers and tried to justify it with all the "Advanced Materials" being used.

If I understand what you are suggesting, then it may only be the part number, but not the actual part itself, that is different, correct? It appears that Airbus has promoted a very misleading description of the A350.
 
trex8
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RE: A350 Just An A330 Variant?

Sun Oct 30, 2005 6:17 am

well if a substantial portion of the structure in an A350 is made of different materials than an A330, even if they look exactly the same, I would hope they have a different part number otherwise it would be so confusing for maintenance it would be downright dangerous!
there's an article in this weeks FI about how there are so many diffferent software packages for the A380, customers will be able to ensure they get the right one for updating their plane only by inputing the serial number of the plane - and thats for the "same" model.
 
Dougloid
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RE: A350 Just An A330 Variant?

Fri Nov 04, 2005 7:21 am

Quoting TrevD (Reply 44):
When pushed on the the 10% parts commonality comment, my Airbus marketing rep admitted it was mostly due to different part numbers and tried to justify it with all the "Advanced Materials" being used.

The ten percent will be nuts, bolts, rivets, tires, and tubes of sealer. There's your ten per cent commonality.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn