sfilipowicz
Posts: 290
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Witnessed Near Miss AMS Schiphol

Thu Oct 27, 2005 4:33 pm

Hi Everyone,

I couldn't believe my eyes  eyepopping  what I saw this morning (9.00AM). Driving to work when i was very near to the office (in Hoofddorp) I saw a Martinair 767 take-off from 18C, suddenly I see the aircraf level off very quick which I thought was strange.
Then I saw an Air France Ambraer climbing out of runway 24. (For the people that know the runway layout at AMS, after dep from 24 and 18C, the paths cross each other very quickly).
I really thought I was going to witness a crash, but luckily they missed (duh, near miss)

I looked at the AMS departures, the Air France was I think Flight AF3445 to Bordeaux, the Martinair I couldn't find any departures at that time.

One strange think I noticed was that the Martinair left there wheels out for longer then normal.

Are there any websites where near misses are reported?

I'm still sitting here a bit in shock.  worried 

Steven.
 
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TS-IOR
Posts: 3500
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RE: Witnessed Near Miss AMS Schiphol

Thu Oct 27, 2005 4:56 pm

WOW...well described making me in the scene completely !!!

Embraer and not Ambraer.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jeroen Scheeres



Did the MP 767 banked after an ATC scream !!!
 
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TS-IOR
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RE: Witnessed Near Miss AMS Schiphol

Thu Oct 27, 2005 5:23 pm


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Bjorn Alegren



The aircraft from which the photo was taken is departing Rwy24 whereas the threshold clearly apparent in the photo is that of 36C/18C.

Just make a projection and you will see that paths cross sharply and that risk of mid-air collision is high when both runways are in use for departure.
 
sfilipowicz
Posts: 290
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RE: Witnessed Near Miss AMS Schiphol

Thu Oct 27, 2005 5:25 pm

Thanks for the images! Makes it look even closer then I thought.

Embraer ofcourse, was a bit excited when typing I think  

Well I wish I had my scanner with me so I could hear something.
Maybe hear the pilot yell to ATC for giving the take off clearance
or the ATC yell to the pilot for taking off without clearance. Who knows?

No the MP 767 didn't bank, it had it's nose up to the sky but a few seconds later it was down to the ground.

[Edited 2005-10-27 10:29:29]
 
sevenair
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RE: Witnessed Near Miss AMS Schiphol

Thu Oct 27, 2005 5:49 pm

Quoting TS-IOR (Reply 1):
Did the MP 767 banked

Bank, not banked.
 
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TS-IOR
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RE: Witnessed Near Miss AMS Schiphol

Thu Oct 27, 2005 5:52 pm

According to Schiphol.nl the only Martinair 763 departure by 09:00 is MP3913 to Aruba scheduled by 09:25. The flight didn't depart yet. Delayed for that incident maybe.

If understood, the aircraft rejected take-off seconds after having started to become airborne.
 
sfilipowicz
Posts: 290
Joined: Wed Jul 17, 2002 3:59 pm

RE: Witnessed Near Miss AMS Schiphol

Thu Oct 27, 2005 6:27 pm

Could well be.

Do you know if there are websites where things like this are reported?
 
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TS-IOR
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RE: Witnessed Near Miss AMS Schiphol

Thu Oct 27, 2005 6:50 pm

There is no better place than reporting it on A.Net.

If you prefer a propaganda, e-mail your Dutch press agency and try to find a link with the last night fire at AMS. All ears will be on  Wink
 
7LBAC111
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RE: Witnessed Near Miss AMS Schiphol

Thu Oct 27, 2005 6:56 pm

Quoting Sevenair (Reply 4):
Bank, not banked.

Great contributio to the conversation that. Well done.
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
FJWH
Posts: 922
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RE: Witnessed Near Miss AMS Schiphol

Thu Oct 27, 2005 7:14 pm

7LBAC111:

Indeed ...

Sevenair:

Your the new spell checker of airliners.net ? ...
FlightS in the next 3 months: MSP, PHX, MEM, NCE, TFS, BCN. All round trips from AMS
 
varig767
Posts: 231
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 4:32 am

RE: Witnessed Near Miss AMS Schiphol

Thu Oct 27, 2005 7:32 pm

Hi Steven,

Wow, that must be rather shocking.... I understand you wasn't feeling happy afterwards...

Quoting Sfilipowicz (Thread starter):
I saw a Martinair 767 take-off from 18C, suddenly I see the aircraf level off very quick



Quoting TS-IOR (Reply 5):
If understood, the aircraft rejected take-off seconds after having started to become airborne.

So, did the aircraft actually continued its flight or landed it directly on runway 18C??

Steven, I am not doubting what you saw, but are you sure it wasn't a difficult executed go-around? I think it is strange to combine runways 24 and 18C for departures at the same time.

regards, Martijn
 
hotje
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RE: Witnessed Near Miss AMS Schiphol

Thu Oct 27, 2005 8:21 pm

Might it be an aborted landing by the MP 767 on 18C. This seems more feasible to me than the use of both 18C and 24 for takeoff.
 
sfilipowicz
Posts: 290
Joined: Wed Jul 17, 2002 3:59 pm

RE: Witnessed Near Miss AMS Schiphol

Thu Oct 27, 2005 8:45 pm

Hmmmm I hadn't even thought of that!
Yes I think you are right, 18C & 24 don't seem very logical as DEP runway.
18C is hardly every used as DEP runway, only seen that a few times.
A go-around would be more likely, that would maybe explain why the wheels
where longer down then ussual.

Anyhow, a pretty shocking site so early in the morning.  Smile
 
A388
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RE: Witnessed Near Miss AMS Schiphol

Wed Nov 02, 2005 11:51 am

So the MP 763 was landing on runaway 18C while the AF ERJ was taking off from runway 24? Was the MP 763 appraoching from Schiphol South (cargo apron visible on the bottom right of the photo shown above) to land on the Zwanenburg runway (18C)?

Quoting Sfilipowicz (Reply 3):
No the MP 767 didn't bank, it had it's nose up to the sky but a few seconds later it was down to the ground.

If these two aircraft indeed barely avoided crossing each other's flight paths, that is scary. Luckily all went well.

A388
 
MarshalN
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RE: Witnessed Near Miss AMS Schiphol

Wed Nov 02, 2005 11:56 am

Yeah, go-around + takeoff sounds much more plausible, still makes it scary though!
 
BDKLEZ
Posts: 1687
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 11:57 am

RE: Witnessed Near Miss AMS Schiphol

Wed Nov 02, 2005 12:02 pm

Quoting Sevenair (Reply 4):
Bank, not banked.

I hate that shit, have some f#@king respect! If you check out the guy's profile you'll probably not be far wrong if you take a guess that English may not be his first language!
Trespassers will be shot; survivors will be shot again!
 
BDKLEZ
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RE: Witnessed Near Miss AMS Schiphol

Wed Nov 02, 2005 12:06 pm

I used to work in the Skyport building at SPL for about 8 years and our office was above the C-pier on the corner looking out over 24/06 so would've had a good view from that perspective I imagine. All sounds very dramatic!

Quoting Hotje (Reply 11):
Might it be an aborted landing by the MP 767 on 18C

Logical and very possible!
Trespassers will be shot; survivors will be shot again!
 
wukka
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RE: Witnessed Near Miss AMS Schiphol

Wed Nov 02, 2005 2:03 pm

Quoting BDKLEZ (Reply 15):
I hate that shit, have some f#@king respect! If you check out the guy's profile you'll probably not be far wrong if you take a guess that English may not be his first language!

Get over yourself, chief. The same guy that you are defending was, in the same reply, correcting the original poster with this gem.

Quoting TS-IOR (Reply 1):
Embraer and not Ambraer.

I'd be willing to guess that's where Sevenair was going with his post. Correcting the corrector.

Don't you feel the fool? Try reading (and comprehending) before you get bent out of shape.
We can agree to disagree.
 
N774UA
Posts: 332
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 2:55 am

RE: Witnessed Near Miss AMS Schiphol

Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:18 pm

According to the Dutch site www.scramble.nl it was a goaround of a MP 767 on 18C. A LH CRJ was taking off from 24. The MP was instructed to go to 2000 ft, while the CRJ was held at a 1000 ft.

http://www.scramble.nl/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17744

regards
N774UA
...follow his instructions, switch off at the stand.
 
ACDC8
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RE: Witnessed Near Miss AMS Schiphol

Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:36 pm

Quoting N774UA (Reply 18):
According to the Dutch site www.scramble.nl it was a goaround of a MP 767 on 18C. A LH CRJ was taking off from 24. The MP was instructed to go to 2000 ft, while the CRJ was held at a 1000 ft.

I was going to ask if maybe it was a go around for the B767. Out of all the times I've been in AMS (which was at least once a month for the last several years), I've never seen an a/c take off from 18C (or 18L before the new rwy opened). Don't get me wrong, I'm sure that it's used, just that I've never seen that happen.
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
vunz
Posts: 347
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2001 3:51 pm

RE: Witnessed Near Miss AMS Schiphol

Wed Nov 02, 2005 10:08 pm

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 19):
or 18L before the new rwy opened

To be correct, it was 19R before the new runway (18R-36L) was opened.

I worked at Schiphol between 1999 and 2002 with a view on the taxiway and both the tresholds of 06 and 01L. It was splendid, especially when 01L-19R was used 'the other way round' i.e. landing on 01L (now 36C) or taking off from 19R (now 18C).

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