PHX Flyer
Topic Author
Posts: 534
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2001 9:52 pm

Continentals Next European Destination: Cologne

Thu Oct 27, 2005 7:04 pm

Continental continues its strategy of flying to underserved European destinations: Cologne, Germany is apparently next, and will be announced today. I think, CGN is a good choice. US service to Germany's fourth largest city has long been overdue. The airport keeps posting stellar growth figures, and the terminal with its underground bullet train station is a very nice facility
 
ARGinLON
Posts: 550
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2005 6:26 pm

RE: Continentals Next European Destination: Cologne

Thu Oct 27, 2005 7:20 pm

Europe is getting really crowded and yields will continue to go down as DL/CO keep expanding.

I won't bit surprised if in a few years Europe will become the current "domestic nightmare" for the US carriers fare wise.
 
TriStar500
Posts: 4411
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 1999 9:50 pm

RE: Continentals Next European Destination: Cologne

Thu Oct 27, 2005 7:31 pm

Now LTU will really get into trouble with their 6-times weekly service from DUS to JFK - I don't think that the German airline will be able to compete with a large network carrier like CO and still make profits on this route.
Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: Continentals Next European Destination: Cologne

Thu Oct 27, 2005 7:44 pm

1. No one that I spoke with at CO seems to know anything yet about this - that being said, there have been surprises before, we will know shortly. While CO will announce additional European destinations for the Summer 2006 schedule, this is first that I (and many insiders that I know at CO) have heard of CGN......but I have been wrong and/or surpirsed before.

2. CO could not make DUS work and withdrew from the DUS-EWR route when its lost a major contract on that route........if DUS did not work, why would CGN? Although CGN has more population, the two cities are very nearby and DUS is the "richer" city with more industry and business. The wildcard could be that CGN offered CO a very interesting incentive package to launch the route - but there is no definite info. (Wasnt ATA talking about flying to CGN before they ran into financial trouble?)

3. Although CGN and DUS lack much longhaul service (including service to the US), dont forget that both cities are connected to FRA by the LH high-speed train - and it is a good service and the product seemless. Any new service will indirectly compete with all flights out of FRA: the question is, would a pax rather fly CGN-EWR-LAX or take the train to FRA and pick up a nonstop flight to LAX? Interesting case study.

I am very curious to hear what is announced concerning this route - I also have a personal interest.....I fly CO BRU-EWR-FLL up to 12 times per year roundtrip and in Europe live just inbetween BRU and CGN, this could add lots of flexibility for me if true.
 
fraT
Posts: 992
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 4:32 am

RE: Continentals Next European Destination: Cologne

Thu Oct 27, 2005 7:54 pm

It is official. CO will start in May EWR-CGN with a 752. They just announced it on a press conference in CGN.
 
dptMAN
Posts: 189
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 1:49 am

RE: Continentals Next European Destination: Cologne

Thu Oct 27, 2005 7:57 pm

Continental seem to be the new carrier for the EU. Great stratagies doing Point-to-point services to smaller airports. eg. BRS, rather than connecting services via LGW, FRA etc.

So how long before we see them in CWL?? I doubt that will happen with the proximity of BRS in the UK. Seems like MUC would be a good money maker for them as a larger hub airport.
Good going CO
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: Continentals Next European Destination: Cologne

Thu Oct 27, 2005 8:14 pm

Quoting DptMAN (Reply 5):


Seems like MUC would be a good money maker for them as a larger hub airport.
Good going CO

As you may know, CO did serve Munich back in the 1990s with DC10 service from EWR......CO dropped the route claiming very high operating costs at the new Munich airport and lack of premium demand......CO just could not get the J class cabin filled up. (MUN, DUS and STN are the 3 European routes that CO has dropped over the years).

For years, CO has said that it has no plans to return to MUN, but recently there has suddenly been chat about a potentital return.......its unclear, and nothing is definite.

Munich is solid Star Alliance territory, which makes competition tough when it comes to business pax.......CO had poor luck at Munich in the past, but that was then and this is now and CO has become a major player accross the Atlantic with its effective strategy to serve smaller European cities with less competition with nonstop service to EWR and onestop service to the Americas. Interesting stuff.
 
manni
Posts: 4049
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 1:48 am

RE: Continentals Next European Destination: Cologne

Thu Oct 27, 2005 8:18 pm

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 3):
I am very curious to hear what is announced concerning this route - I also have a personal interest.....I fly CO BRU-EWR-FLL up to 12 times per year roundtrip and in Europe live just inbetween BRU and CGN, this could add lots of flexibility for me if true.

USER PROFILE

I wonder how many people are in a similar situation like you. Continental might get your future business in CGN, but they will loose you in BRU. Continental used to have lots and lots of transit passengers in BRU (and most likely in other stations aswell) coming from the Scandinavian countrys, especially during the quieter winter months. These passenger will now have the ability to fly direct from their own airports, with their preffered airline, the other stations that used to get their business will loose out on this. What's really to gain by expanding to smaller cities?

American carriers (the big 6) bleeding money with their domestic network. Now they're screwing the Atlantic, soon no destinations will be profitable for the already very poor performing American intercontinental carriers.
SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS
 
TriStar500
Posts: 4411
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 1999 9:50 pm

RE: Continentals Next European Destination: Cologne

Thu Oct 27, 2005 8:21 pm

It will be interesting to see, how the market develops: will LTU withdraw due to a shift of bookings in favor of CO's larger network ex CGN? Will both airlines withdraw their routes after a while, because none of the competitors can make money?
Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
 
ARGinLON
Posts: 550
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2005 6:26 pm

RE: Continentals Next European Destination: Cologne

Thu Oct 27, 2005 8:26 pm

Quoting Manni (Reply 7):
wonder how many people are in a similar situation like you. Continental might get your future business in CGN, but they will loose you in BRU. Continental used to have lots and lots of transit passengers in BRU (and most likely in other stations aswell) coming from the Scandinavian countrys, especially during the quieter winter months. These passenger will now have the ability to fly direct from their own airports, with their preffered airline, the other stations that used to get their business will loose out on this. What's really to gain by expanding to smaller cities?

American carriers (the big 6) bleeding money with their domestic network. Now they're screwing the Atlantic, soon no destinations will be profitable for the already very poor performing American intercontinental carriers.

More than BRU, the one who will really suffer with all this expansion is AMS since it used to get fed with Scandinavian and KL.

As you said, Europe is getting ridiculous. The bloodbath we see in the U.S. domestic network will impact Europe in the next few years as CO/Dl keep expanding is such ridiculous way to places where there is not enough demand on both side of the Atlantic to make the loads on flight more or less balanced.

On the good side, CO is using 757s that have a lower CASM that DL 763s. Will see who suffers the most.

Time will tell.
 
tpaewr
Posts: 394
Joined: Sat May 19, 2001 9:01 am

RE: Continentals Next European Destination: Cologne

Thu Oct 27, 2005 9:04 pm

I think it is unfair to compare CO and DL's trans-A expansion. CO has been building each year now for over a decade, in this same time how many times has DL launched and then pulled out of TLV?

Oh ,and CO has made a profit Q2 and Q3, and DL, well you know....
 
A342
Posts: 4017
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 11:05 pm

RE: Continentals Next European Destination: Cologne

Thu Oct 27, 2005 9:09 pm

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 6):
As you may know, CO did serve Munich back in the 1990s with DC10 service from EWR......CO dropped the route claiming very high operating costs at the new Munich airport and lack of premium demand......CO just could not get the J class cabin filled up.

LH even have the Privatair flight to satisfy premium demand.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 6):
For years, CO has said that it has no plans to return to MUN, but recently there has suddenly been chat about a potentital return.......its unclear, and nothing is definite.

Munich is solid Star Alliance territory, which makes competition tough when it comes to business pax.......CO had poor luck at Munich in the past, but that was then and this is now and CO has become a major player accross the Atlantic with its effective strategy to serve smaller European cities with less competition with nonstop service to EWR and onestop service to the Americas. Interesting stuff.

I hope they come back, but there will be stiff competition, a very stiff one...
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
Sabena332
Posts: 14938
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 3:57 am

RE: Continentals Next European Destination: Cologne

Thu Oct 27, 2005 9:17 pm

So much for: "Will CO come back to DUS?"  Sad

Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
TheSonntag
Posts: 4296
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:23 pm

RE: Continentals Next European Destination: Cologne

Thu Oct 27, 2005 9:30 pm

This might sound like just another destination, but for CGN it is sensational. This is the first real long distance destination for many years, except CGN-THR, of course. Another sign that CGN has a great manager.

I am very sceptical about this flight, but it might work, as Bonn is trying to become a big UN-city, which would rely on direct flights to New York. But I would not have expected this flight.

Great for CGN!
 
LO231
Posts: 2227
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2004 5:55 pm

RE: Continentals Next European Destination: Cologne

Thu Oct 27, 2005 10:00 pm

Quoting Manni (Reply 7):
Continental used to have lots and lots of transit passengers in BRU (and most likely in other stations aswell) coming from the Scandinavian countrys, especially during the quieter winter months.

Very true, I flew them BRU-EWR-MIA and there were lots of Scandinavians, lots of them I've seen on my MIA-EWR flight.

regards,
LO231
Got both LO 788 frames already, next LO E95 and 734 BRU-WAW-BRU
 
Sabena332
Posts: 14938
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 3:57 am

RE: Continentals Next European Destination: Cologne

Thu Oct 27, 2005 10:33 pm

Quoting TriStar500 (Reply 2):
Now LTU will really get into trouble with their 6-times weekly service from DUS to JFK - I don't think that the German airline will be able to compete with a large network carrier like CO and still make profits on this route.

This would be just another entry in LT's book of "routes that failed". The JFK flight would get a nice place next to the China flights and the three daily VIE flights which have been cancelled before they actually started.

It must suck to be a route planner for LT.  Wink

Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
masseybrown
Posts: 4406
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

RE: Continentals Next European Destination: Cologne

Fri Oct 28, 2005 1:44 am

Quoting ARGinLON (Reply 9):
The bloodbath we see in the U.S. domestic network will impact Europe in the next few years as CO/Dl keep expanding ...

The US airlines that are expanding European services are not known for slashing fares; nobody has to worry until a real discounter comes along.
 
commavia
Posts: 9623
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

RE: Continentals Next European Destination: Cologne

Fri Oct 28, 2005 1:53 am

Somewhat related: once AA gets their international J product on the wingletted 757s, they should launch JFK-DUS.
 
Andie007
Posts: 827
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2000 5:15 am

RE: Continentals Next European Destination: Cologne

Fri Oct 28, 2005 2:19 am

Great news.
Living right between of DUS and Cologne I now can choose from DL, CO and LT nonstop to the US  Smile
 
PlaneGuy27
Posts: 289
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2004 12:38 am

RE: Continentals Next European Destination: Cologne

Fri Oct 28, 2005 2:21 am

Press Release Source: Continental Airlines

Continental Airlines Announces Daily Nonstop Service Between New York and Cologne, Germany
Thursday October 27, 1:00 pm ET
Flights to Begin in May 2006


NEW YORK, Oct. 27 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Continental Airlines (NYSE: CAL - News) today announced it will launch daily nonstop flights between its New York hub at Newark Liberty International Airport and Cologne, Germany, starting on May 10, 2006, pending government approval. This will be the first scheduled service between the U.S. and Cologne since 1990.
Continental flight CO110 will depart New York/Newark daily at 6:45 p.m. and arrive in Cologne at 8:10 a.m. the next day. Flight CO111 will depart Cologne/Bonn Konrad Adenauer Airport daily at 10:35 a.m. and arrive in New York/Newark at 1:20 p.m. the same day. Flying times will be approximately seven hours and 25 minutes eastbound and eight hours and 45 minutes westbound. The frequency of service will be reduced to five flights weekly during the winter to account for the traditional seasonal reduction in demand.

"We continue to develop our New York hub to take advantage of its strategic location," said Jim Summerford, Continental's vice president, Europe, Middle East and India. "Newark Liberty is America's doorway to Europe, and it gives European travelers a breadth of connecting opportunities, which is unrivaled among U.S. hubs."

Continental's Cologne-New York/Newark flights will be operated with a 172- seat Boeing 757-200 aircraft, carrying 16 passengers in the BusinessFirst cabin and 156 in economy.

The new flights will feature Continental's renowned BusinessFirst service, which has won the Best Executive/Business Class award at the OAG Airline of the Year Awards in each of the past three years (2005, 2004 and 2003), based on voting by frequent flyers worldwide. BusinessFirst was also voted Best Transatlantic Business Class among U.S. airlines in Conde Nast Traveler magazine's Business Travel Awards 2005 -- for the eighth year running.

This premium-class cabin features extra-wide electronic sleeper seats with 55-inch pitch, adjustable winged headrests and personal video screens. Continental is currently upgrading its fleet of 41 Boeing 757-200 aircraft with a brand-new BusinessFirst entertainment system featuring audio and video on demand with touch screen controls, as well as a new in-seat power system. Other BusinessFirst amenities include gourmet menus and award-winning wines and champagnes. A specially selected and trained corps of Concierges provides individualized pre and post-flight services for BusinessFirst customers at 35 key international airports worldwide.

The new service, the only scheduled nonstop trans-Atlantic service from the German city, will link Cologne not only with New York, the world's financial capital and the number one U.S. business and tourism destination, but also -- via Continental's New York hub -- with 170 other cities throughout North, Central and South America, the Caribbean and beyond.

Cologne is the largest city in North Rhine-Westphalia, the largest German Federal State. Twenty million people live within one hour's drive from Cologne. The dynamic Rhine-Ruhr region is one of the central locations in Europe for industry, trade, the economy, science and research. Last year Cologne saw a 30 percent increase in American visitors.

The Cologne flights have been conveniently timed to connect at New York/Newark with an extensive network of service throughout the U.S.A., Canada and Latin America. Continental is the only major airline to operate a hub in the New York City metropolitan area -- Newark Liberty International Airport.

Passengers arriving at Newark Liberty on Continental flights from Cologne will be able to use exclusive immigration and customs facilities in Terminal C3, Continental's Global Gateway, and connect quickly and easily with Continental's 427 daily services from Newark Liberty to 170 destinations throughout the Americas and beyond, including 153 served non-stop, in almost all cases without changing terminals.

Cologne will become the 28th city in Continental's trans-Atlantic route network, and its fourth destination in Germany, where it has been operating since 1991. The airline operates a daily Boeing 777 nonstop service between Frankfurt and New York/Newark, and launched daily Boeing 757 nonstop services between both Berlin and Hamburg and New York/Newark earlier this year.

Continental Airlines is the world's sixth-largest airline. Continental, together with Continental Express and Continental Connection, has more than 3,000 daily departures throughout the Americas, Europe and Asia, serving 151 domestic and 133 international destinations, more than any other carrier in the world. More than 400 additional points are served via SkyTeam alliance airlines, which include Aeromexico, Air France/KLM, Alitalia, CSA Czech Airlines, Delta Air Lines, Korean Air and Northwest Airlines. With over 42,000 employees, Continental has hubs serving New York, Houston, Cleveland and Guam, and together with Continental Express, carries approximately 60 million passengers per year. Continental consistently earns awards and critical acclaim for both its operation and its corporate culture.

For the second consecutive year, FORTUNE magazine named Continental the No. 1 Most Admired Global Airline on its 2005 list of Most Admired Global Companies. Continental was also included in the publication's annual "Top 50" list, which ranks all companies, across a wide variety of industries, that appear in the Global Most Admired Companies issue. Continental again won major awards at the 2005 OAG Airline of the Year Awards including "Airline of the Year" and "Best Airline Based in North America" for the second consecutive year, and "Best Executive/Business Class" for the third consecutive year. For more company information, visit continental.com .




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: Continental Airlines
 
CAL
Posts: 451
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2004 10:33 am

RE: Continentals Next European Destination: Cologne

Fri Oct 28, 2005 3:34 am

Ok, So this is new international destination number 3, I wonder what 4 and 5 is?
CAL........Continental Airlines....... Work Hard, Fly Right
 
GNDOPS
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 8:21 pm

RE: Continentals Next European Destination: Cologne

Fri Oct 28, 2005 3:44 am

Quoting CAL (Reply 20):
Ok, So this is new international destination number 3, I wonder what 4 and 5 is?

Maybe WAW or DME??
 
Lemurs
Posts: 1320
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2005 5:13 am

RE: Continentals Next European Destination: Cologne

Fri Oct 28, 2005 3:47 am

Am I the only one who is entirely amused by the gloom and doom predicitions people keep making? Since when is new service, with APPROPRIATE capacity, automtically a bad thing? The key here is the 752. It allows for a lot more flexable operations on these smaller routes. You may be right that this trend could cause a shake up on US-EUR routes, but is that a bad thing?

CO is making minimal investments, so if it doesn't work out they can cut their losses relatively easily and try new markets. If at the same time they force other players out of the the more traditional hub-and-spoke traffic that has fed those big planes leaving FRA, CDG, LHR, is that a bad thing? This is what free market is all about. I just don't see why people are so against prices being driven down. Do you like to pay more for less options and more flying?

BTW, I see CO as the poster child for Boeing's stated strategy of more point-to-point operations with the 787. They're doing it already, at a rapid pace, and you can expect that their new 777's and 787's will only compliment that strategy. They have one route that dictates a plane larger than the 772, and that's EWR-TLV. Otherwise, they managed all their destinations with frequencies instead of big metal, and business travelers flock to their door.
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those that don't.
 
letsgetwet
Posts: 490
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2005 12:08 pm

RE: Continentals Next European Destination: Cologne

Fri Oct 28, 2005 4:36 am

The only thing that I can't understand is : What does CGN have that DUS does not? I would think DUS would have been a better choice. It is slightly farther from FRA, and I would think there would be more business type customers.
 
Junction
Posts: 489
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2005 2:50 am

RE: Continentals Next European Destination: Cologne

Fri Oct 28, 2005 4:53 am

Quoting ARGinLON (Reply 9):
More than BRU, the one who will really suffer with all this expansion is AMS since it used to get fed with Scandinavian and KL.

I see your point, but I would think CO would be pleased if their connecting traffic ends up getting spread out over Europe via direct flights on smaller aircraft. This may even mean eventual aircraft downgrades in AMS and BRU allowing expansion of the widebody fleet elsewhere. It's almost a twisted kind of "Southwest Effect" schedule-wise to add more flights on smaller planes to Europe. Also, I don't think this will necessarily cause fare wars like in the U.S. because even though more non-stop service is added the fares still seem rational with connecting competition. I could see them actually getting away with higher fares for those desiring to fly non-stop to New York from some markets.
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: Continentals Next European Destination: Cologne

Fri Oct 28, 2005 5:29 am

Quoting Letsgetwet (Reply 23):
The only thing that I can't understand is : What does CGN have that DUS does not? I would think DUS would have been a better choice. It is slightly farther from FRA, and I would think there would be more business type customers.

I agree - I questioned that above. My only guess is that CGN offered an aggressive launch package to CO - ie, reduced or waived landing fees, a subsidy to operate the service, or the like. Just guessing here. You never know, CGN's larger population may make the flight more successful than DUS, time will tell.

I do not think that the new CGN service will affect performance of the BRU flight - BRU is over 225 km (about 150 miles) from CGN, obviously in a different country and a different market........while pax from Belgium and the southern part of the Netherlands will use BRU, pax from Cologne, Aachen and other areas in that region of Germany rarely head to BRU and will prefer CGN. In any case, the BRU flight on CO goes out nearly filled every day (especially up front, all 35 seats are generally filled with paying pax, its very tough to get a mileage upgrade or free ticket in BF with miles on the BRU route) and overbooked consistently several days of the week......there is talk that CO may add a second flight on the BRU-EWR route in any case, so CGN will not be a big issue.

The only European route on CO that has seen some drop in demand is the EWR-AMS - less pax are connecting in AMS (on to KLM flights) due to CO's increased services to European cities. This trend is likely to continue. The EWR-AMS route was once operated by a 777, its now a 764, and the second flight on the route (was to be with a 757) was dropped for the winter schedule although its supposed to return for the busier summer season (its listed as a 762 but some say the second frequency will actually operate with the 757).....in any case, CO does plan to introduce even more services to Europe and their strategy thus far seems to be working. I am not sure that DL or AA will have the same success as CO - flying the 752 on these types of routes is very effecient and economical and offers just the right amount of seats, flights to the NYC area (EWR) are popular, but the biggest plus is that there is a multitude of connection possibilities available on CO via the EWR hub. CO can basically offer nonstop service to NYC and onestop service to all of the US and the Americas from smaller European cities with little competition.
 
TheSonntag
Posts: 4296
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:23 pm

RE: Continentals Next European Destination: Cologn

Fri Oct 28, 2005 6:40 am

EDIT: Sorry for quoting wrong person. I want to tell why CGN might be attractive, even compared to DUS.


Traditionally, most traffic goes from DUS, so CGN was always desperate to get more traffic. This changed when Michael Garvens became the manager of CGN, he pushed the airport a lot. CGN became Europe's 2nd biggest LCC airport, from 5.7mio passengers in 2002 it will rise to 9 million this year, a great achievement.

CGN has some advantages over DUS, though.

a) CGN has a longer runway, its 3800metres long. This is irrelevant for the 757, but it makes it the longest runway in the area.

b) CGN is open 24 hours/day, so its Germany's 2nd biggest cargo airport. This means that the infrastructure is there.

c) A lot of investment took place recently. CGN has a train connection. This is also the case for DUS, of course, but it made CGN much more attractive than before. A direkt Autobahn connection is there, as well. The LCCs have made CGN very popular. 10 years ago many people that don't live exactly near cologne didn't even know that this airport existed. Today, everybody knows CGN, so people know where the airport is and are willing to travel to it instead of DUS if they get a good offer.

d) CGN is close to Bonn. While the government left (there was a lot of government travel in old days), Bonn is supposed to become a UN city and a big congress city, mostly about sustainable development. This can raise O/D demand between CGN and EWR, something which shouldn't be underestimated.

And finally, CGN has a lot of slots, so airlines can land whenever they want.

[Edited 2005-10-27 23:42:04]
 
HunUtazo
Posts: 229
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2005 9:17 am

RE: Continentals Next European Destination: Cologne

Fri Oct 28, 2005 6:47 am

.................BUD next?
dude
 
atlasair
Posts: 99
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 1999 11:43 pm

RE: Continentals Next European Destination: Cologne

Fri Oct 28, 2005 7:11 am

Did anyone hear about their gift baskets?
 
Web
Posts: 317
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2005 6:56 am

RE: Continentals Next European Destination: Cologne

Fri Oct 28, 2005 8:16 am

Quoting AtlasAir (Reply 28):
Did anyone hear about their gift baskets?

I did, but I didn't read the article. What are they, exactly?
 
iluv747400
Posts: 297
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2000 8:12 am

RE: Continentals Next European Destination: Cologne

Fri Oct 28, 2005 8:17 am

Quoting CAL (Reply 20):
Ok, So this is new international destination number 3, I wonder what 4 and 5 is?

Does EZE count? It's not non-stop, but originates from EWR.
 
diesel33
Posts: 297
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2004 10:28 am

RE: Continentals Next European Destination: Cologne

Fri Oct 28, 2005 11:54 am

Quoting Letsgetwet (Reply 23):
What does CGN have that DUS does not?

I can tell you something that DUS has that CGN doesn't which works in favor for CGN.

THE LH BBJ service from DUS to EWR.

If CO operated the service to/from EWR again that would just be too much premium cabin capacity. LH is already established in the market and I think CO knows that.

Congratulations to CGN! You are getting a world class airline!

diesel33
 
Cure
Posts: 220
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 1:47 am

RE: Continentals Next European Destination: Cologne

Fri Oct 28, 2005 11:56 am

Interesting to see how many problems will probably face Lufthansa, expecially in the New York market...
 
TriStar500
Posts: 4411
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 1999 9:50 pm

RE: Continentals Next European Destination: Cologne

Fri Oct 28, 2005 3:06 pm

I don't think the problems will be on Lufthansa's side. They are well established with big local companies and their corporate travel accounts. LTU, on the other hand, will be in the crapcan pretty soon - they cannot compete network-wise with CO, their C-product is inferior to the American one, so they are stuck with competing on the DUS-NYC-DUS O&D-market and the fairly limited yields one can achieve here in the Economy Class part of the cabin.

My best bet is that LTU will be gone from the JFK route within one schedule season after CO inaugurates its service.
Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Continentals Next European Destination: Cologne

Fri Oct 28, 2005 3:30 pm

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 12):
So much for: "Will CO come back to DUS?"

And? You live in Hamburg now and CO does have service there.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
User avatar
TS-IOR
Posts: 3498
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2001 9:44 pm

RE: Continentals Next European Destination: Cologne

Fri Oct 28, 2005 4:00 pm

Why is LTU failing in its scheduled long-haul services, and even the short-haul ones, whereas its scheduled "charter" flights are of a great success ?
 
TriStar500
Posts: 4411
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 1999 9:50 pm

RE: Continentals Next European Destination: Cologne

Fri Oct 28, 2005 4:28 pm

Quoting TS-IOR (Reply 35):
...whereas its scheduled "charter" flights are of a great success ?

How do you know?
Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
 
brons2
Posts: 2462
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2001 1:02 pm

RE: Continentals Next European Destination: Cologne

Fri Oct 28, 2005 4:49 pm

Congrats CO.

I had the pleasure of visiting CGN just over a year ago for the 747SP flight. It's a very nice and modern airport with excellent train service. The opaque floors are very interesting. There is a nice bar downstairs where I drank many beers with some a.nutters.

The train to FRA goes 300 kmh and takes less than an hour to travel the distance. I know this because last time I did not have an option but to fly into FRA.

I am hoping to try one of these CO 752 flights, whether it be to CGN, HAM, TXL or some other smaller EU destination. Maybe next summer.
Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
 
User avatar
TS-IOR
Posts: 3498
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2001 9:44 pm

RE: Continentals Next European Destination: Cologne

Fri Oct 28, 2005 5:12 pm

Could you explain ? Isn't LTU making profit on its other flights ?
 
cgnnrw
Posts: 1044
Joined: Tue May 17, 2005 3:11 am

RE: Continentals Next European Destination: Cologne

Fri Oct 28, 2005 6:25 pm

What a surprise when I bought this morning's newspaper!!! CO starting service to CGN! WOW!!! I was happy when I heard DL is starting service to DUS, but CO in CGN is fantastic. Now I have two Skyteam airlines offering non-stop service to the US.

Did anyone notice the flight number from CGN? CO111.....the "eleven" is the key here....  Wink

I'm also surprised about the doom and gloom some here have about the potential of this route. I'm sure CO didn't decide this on a whim and the airport officials surely made it attractive for CO. If it turns out not to be as successful, CO will simply stop service. Not such a big deal. They and other airlines do all the time.

I assume CO will use Terminal 2. The renovated Terminal 1 is still a dump. They should had just torn it down and built on to T2 in the same style. Oh well, that's a matter of taste I guess.
A330 man.
 
TriStar500
Posts: 4411
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 1999 9:50 pm

RE: Continentals Next European Destination: Cologne

Fri Oct 28, 2005 6:37 pm

Quoting Cgnnrw (Reply 39):
I assume CO will use Terminal 2. The renovated Terminal 1 is still a dump. They should had just torn it down and built on to T2 in the same style. Oh well, that's a matter of taste I guess.

And, more importantly, a matter of money.
Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
 
TheSonntag
Posts: 4296
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:23 pm

RE: Continentals Next European Destination: Cologne

Fri Oct 28, 2005 6:50 pm

As far as I know, T1 is also protected as a monument. And it is not THAT bad, except that the stars are too small for the passengers, but the Starwalk solved the problem. If you compare the look of T1 from 1998 with how it looks in 2005, its unbelievable, it looks so much better.

Don't forget the Spotter terraces on T1, something which T2 doesn't have  Wink.

T2 will have enough capacity, it regularly took Iran Air 747s, it can accomodate MD11s, so a 757-200 is no problem at all (British Airways came with those quite often. I guess immigration and baggage reclaim will go much faster at CGN than at FRA or other airports, so it will be a fast way to Germany, as well.
 
cgnnrw
Posts: 1044
Joined: Tue May 17, 2005 3:11 am

RE: Continentals Next European Destination: Cologne

Fri Oct 28, 2005 6:51 pm

Quoting TriStar500 (Reply 40):
And, more importantly, a matter of money.

Yes, true but to be honest the new "improvements" they did on Terminal 1 are terrible. That same money could have been invested in the rebuilding a new Terminal 1. It may be hard to to compare but DUS was able to maintain full operations after the fire and replaced it with a much better terminal.

Again I'm just happy CO is giving CGN a try.
A330 man.
 
TheSonntag
Posts: 4296
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:23 pm

RE: Continentals Next European Destination: Cologne

Fri Oct 28, 2005 7:02 pm

I just looked it up, and according to Wikipedia.de, T1 has been protected as a monument since 1988 (Denkmalschutz). So tearing it down would be impossible or very difficult. But I do not see any necessity for that, for me it is a nice terminal nevertheless.
 
klwright69
Posts: 2313
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 4:22 am

RE: Continentals Next European Destination: Cologne

Sun Oct 30, 2005 3:47 am

I think anyone studying CO's strategy could see this coming a mile away. With the addition of HAM, it became obvious that CO was now going to apply their micromarket strategy to Germany. The Rhine River basin is densely populated, so CGN was an obvious choice, especially considering that they've been there an already done MUC and DUS. This was a no brainer.
 
Sabena332
Posts: 14938
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 3:57 am

RE: Continentals Next European Destination: Cologne

Sun Oct 30, 2005 3:52 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 34):
And? You live in Hamburg now and CO does have service there.

Yes, but DUS is still my second home airport and I am still very often in the DUS area (like at the moment), so I am very interested in what's going on at DUS.

By the way, the last time I flew on CO, I choose FRA as departure airport because CO is flying with the 777 from there (their 777's have a better Biz1st product than their 757's and the fare was almost the same).

Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24517
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Continentals Next European Destination: Cologne

Sun Oct 30, 2005 3:55 am

Quoting TS-IOR (Reply 38):
Could you explain ? Isn't LTU making profit on its other flights ?

I know their Miami and Fort Myers flights are good money makers. Those two routes have a very large number of individual bookings, not pre-sold seats to holiday companies and in tour packages like Orlando and Calgary, and MIA especially rakes in the cargo.
a.
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: Continentals Next European Destination: Cologne

Sun Oct 30, 2005 4:05 am

I guess that the next question is - will CO give Munich another chance? CO dropped its Munich service years ago before it re-established itself as a major player accorss the Atlantic and before CO did the 757 trick on trans-atlantic routes. And will CO try to continue its success in Germany by opening routes to other regional airports? STR is another possibility for a connection to EWR.

Beyond Germany, rumors are that France just may be next on CO's list - with cities like Nice, Lyon and Marsielle all being considered for 757 service to the EWR.

Thats aside from the continuing rumors concerning CO launching flights to Newark from:

Helsinki - with 752 - the fourth Scandic capital city.
Prague - with 752 - range issues possible, but its odd that SkyTeam parter CSA just dropped flights to EWR in favor of focusing on JFK - CO must be interested in connecting EWR and PRG, two SkyTeam hubs, and gain access to the eastern European region with CSA connections, aside from the fact that PRG is becoming a major destination on its own.
Vienna - with the 752 - again range issues - but the US-Vienna market is very underserved, something that CO likes.
Moscow - with a 762 - but how will CO come up with another 767 for this route unless it downgrades flights to another European destinations to 757 service?
Newcastle - with a 752 - AA announced this first, but rumor has it that CO is watching the situation closely.
Stansted - with a 752 - when CO dropped this route after 9/11, it was meeting its expectations and was dropped due to aircraft allocation issues (the fast grounding of the DC10 fleet at the time)....will CO return?

Just the rumors that are going around.
 
HunUtazo
Posts: 229
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2005 9:17 am

RE: Continentals Next European Destination: Cologne

Sun Oct 30, 2005 6:20 am

....w/w intl freight divison.
dude
 
eyeonthesky17
Posts: 54
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2005 8:42 am

RE: Continentals Next European Destination: Cologne

Sun Oct 30, 2005 7:24 am

I think some of DL and CO service announcements to Germany has a great deal to do with the 2006 World Cup. After that event, they will really need to decide how profitable all these DE routes are.

On another note, CO has now added approx. 450 seats to Germany from EWR (HAM,TXL, and CGN in MAY06). While LH surely suffers on some level, I believe that CO is probably dilluting and displacing traffic from it's EWRFRA route as well. Considering that FRA is a Star Alliance hub, connections for J class contacted (corporate) clients become difficult. I expect to see the 777 be pulled from that route next summer and back to a 764.

DL is creating the same mess out of ATL. THere simply is not enough demand after the World Cup to support 2 ATLFRA, ATLMUC, ATLDUS and ATLSTR. This must be extremely expensive sine they are all 763s (1 ATLFRA is 777). Also, this is all seems rather questionable since LH does not have a huge presence in ATL. What is the sense in this?

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], barney captain, coolian2, ek17, Google [Bot], maveman, mxaxai, northwest_guy, rutankrd, Scorpio, SingaporeBoy, SoJo, SXI899, tespai, wjcandee, XAM2175 and 201 guests