ACEregular
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Will We See Low Cost To Canaries?

Fri Oct 28, 2005 8:53 am

I realise that most charter airlines now sell seats singularly on flights one way these days and these can be seen as low cost but I am wondering if the likes of U2 or FR might begin flights to the Canary Islands any time soon as Its a very popular year round destination. I have been on a few flights and all are just about full demonstrating the demand available. I also think being stuck with a 7 or 14 nt ticket is a bit restricting and maybe people would like to tailor make their holiday there.

Please dont shoot me down, I do also know that ZB fly there from LTN, MAN and LGW. LS have begun flying there from LBA and GSM do so from GLA. I just think there is scope from other underserved regional airports.
 
Orion737
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RE: Will We See Low Cost To Canaries?

Fri Oct 28, 2005 9:07 am

The Canary Islands are a little far for FR or EZY. I think while the no-frills service of 2-3 hours duration is acceptable, a flight of over 4 and a half hours requires additional considerations.

A more substantial meal service may need to be at least available for purchase and FR and EZY have limited galley facilities, unlike ZB (still can buy a hot meal on a flight to Canaries) .

Also the distance of such flights would affect the number of rotations that an LCC could make. A 4+ hour flight from MAN-TFS for example, would mean a combined total of 9 hours to which a turnaround time would have to be added.

Also Stelios states that the flight to ATH from LGW is the furthest he believes the LCC model can work. I tend to agree and think Jet 2 may struggle to fill their 757 on their run from LBA-TFS. It is a lengthy sector of which very few LCCs have gained any success. GO and MYT Lite operated a few seasonal flights with limited success and ZB was already established on flights to TFS and at least understands the differing catering needs of a longer flight by offering hot food for purchase.

Also the Canaries are served extensivley from regional airports like LBA, HUY, NCL, LPL etc with seat only available options in most instances. I think the LCCs would struggle to compete on price and on service on these longer sectors.
 
HT
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RE: Will We See Low Cost To Canaries?

Fri Oct 28, 2005 1:40 pm

Quoting ACEregular (Thread starter):
I also think being stuck with a 7 or 14 nt ticket is a bit restricting

At least from Germany you can buy "seat-only" on all major airlines (DE, HF, AB, LT) as one-way tickets - so there´s no need for a 7/14-day rhythm of stay !
-HT
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TS-IOR
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RE: Will We See Low Cost To Canaries?

Fri Oct 28, 2005 4:37 pm

Take a 1 Eur. Ryanair flight to Germany and then to the Canaries starting 29 Eur.

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TriStar500
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RE: Will We See Low Cost To Canaries?

Fri Oct 28, 2005 4:50 pm

Quoting TS-IOR (Reply 3):
Take a 1 Eur. Ryanair flight to Germany and then to the Canaries starting 29 Eur.

You might find it a little more difficult to implement this. Those 29 Euro flights to the Canaries are really hard to come by, and HF and DE, which offer such tickets, fly from proper airports unlike the sheds in the middle of nowhere FR is taking you to.  Smile
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TS-IOR
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RE: Will We See Low Cost To Canaries?

Fri Oct 28, 2005 5:06 pm

The alternative would be an all Air-Berlin trip, GB-Germany-the Canaries-Germany-GB. It would confirm the AB European strategy and impresses the pride of Joachim Hunold  Wink
 
N1120A
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RE: Will We See Low Cost To Canaries?

Fri Oct 28, 2005 5:10 pm

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 1):
Also Stelios states that the flight to ATH from LGW is the furthest he believes the LCC model can work.

Funny, since LCCs in the US fly nearly twice that far in the US all the time. Perhaps he means the "No Service" airline model in Europe.
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bullpitt
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RE: Will We See Low Cost To Canaries?

Fri Oct 28, 2005 5:14 pm

I agree with TriStar500. Also to those 1 eur and 29 eur flights you have to add the taxes and the extras cost of getting from one airport to the other, then you have to have a good 2 to 3 hour margin on your connection or more if your connecting at different airports. So the trip can be a very long trip and the savings minimal as you can fly for a very good price using BA/IB or others direct or via other European capitals with connected tkts which make things easier.
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BCAL
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RE: Will We See Low Cost To Canaries?

Fri Oct 28, 2005 5:19 pm

Go, originally the LCC of BA but then went through a management buy out before being taken over by U2, did fly STN-TFS for one season and the fares were reasonable - you could often get to TFS for under £50 inclusive of all taxes. However, the route was dropped due to poor loads after only one season.

Whilst there was certainly a demand to LCC to the Canaries, Go's STN/TFS service was not a success for three simple reasons - first, their flight departed in the evening from STN and arrived at TFS just after midnight, returning in the early hours of the morning. Secondly, passengers did then expect some frills on flights lasting +4 hours. Thirdly, in those days there was plenty of availability to TFS on charter flights.

Times have changed, and passengers are becoming accustomed to no frills. 5 years ago, passengers could accept no frills for flights up to 2 hours. 3 years ago this crept up to 3 hours, and now I am sure if the fare was right, passengers would do without the frills for 4-5 hours. Therefore, I think that we shall soon see LCCs operating to the Canaries and possibly also IST. I think that FR have already been in discussions with TFN regarding the possibility of their starting services next summer.

The LCCs may, however, left it too late. Check on the BA website and you will find some damn good deals to the Canaries. A scheduled BA flight (albeit franchised operated by GB Airways) is often a fraction of the fares on the likes of First Choice, Thomson, Monarch and My Travel. And the BA fare includes meals, drinks, assigned seating, all of which are extras on the charter carriers.
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TriStar500
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RE: Will We See Low Cost To Canaries?

Fri Oct 28, 2005 5:36 pm

Quoting BCAL (Reply 8):
Check on the BA website and you will find some damn good deals to the Canaries. A scheduled BA flight (albeit franchised operated by GB Airways) is often a fraction of the fares on the likes of First Choice, Thomson, Monarch and My Travel. And the BA fare includes meals, drinks, assigned seating, all of which are extras on the charter carriers.

However, BA is not making a profit from such bargain basement fares. There might be a few seats on each flight as an incentive, but the average yield will have to be higher than on a "charter" or "low cost" flight, if BA wants to make money from it.
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BCAL
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RE: Will We See Low Cost To Canaries?

Fri Oct 28, 2005 6:03 pm

Quoting TriStar500 (Reply 9):
BA is not making a profit from such bargain basement fares

It is GB Airways who operates BA's services to the Canaries, and perhaps they have lower costs so that their average yield is the same as a charter or LCC's?
MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
 
CRJ900
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RE: Will We See Low Cost To Canaries?

Fri Oct 28, 2005 7:06 pm

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 1):
A more substantial meal service may need to be at least available for purchase and FR and EZY have limited galley facilities,

I flew FR for the first time two weeks ago and noticed that their 738s have the "full galley complement" that most other airlines have on their 738s... meaning that FR has lots of room for food, drinks, hot-ovens and the rest.

The Canary Islands have LCC service from Sterling and SK flying non-stop from Scandinavia several times a week. Flights are about 5,5 hrs and limited selections of food are offered for sale, mostly cold dishes and the odd hot burrito. Seat pitches are 30-31" on those carriers. The flights are popular as many Scandinavians own houses down there, and they seem happy with what NB and SK offer on those flights.

I personally like the charter trips to the Canary Islands, gives me such a holiday feel...  Smile
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alcregular
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RE: Will We See Low Cost To Canaries?

Fri Oct 28, 2005 7:27 pm

LCC to canaries could work. Having worked in a travel agents previously, their was quite a demand for the canaries in the winter, with not enough flights. NCL and MME flights have been reduced even though the demand is there. I'm not sure about the summer though, as there are plenty of places to go with good weather.
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richardw
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RE: Will We See Low Cost To Canaries?

Fri Oct 28, 2005 7:28 pm

Yes, If U2 or FR set up a base near Madrid or Andalusia.
 
7LBAC111
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RE: Will We See Low Cost To Canaries?

Fri Oct 28, 2005 7:39 pm

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 1):
A more substantial meal service may need to be at least available for purchase and FR and EZY have limited galley facilities, unlike ZB (still can buy a hot meal on a flight to Canaries) .

Im in agreement with BCAL here. I don't think the majority are as obsessed with onboard catering as you are.

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 1):
Also Stelios states that the flight to ATH from LGW is the furthest he believes the LCC model can work. I tend to agree and think Jet 2 may struggle to fill their 757 on their run from LBA-TFS

I'm sure he'll be relieved!  sarcastic 

Quoting BCAL (Reply 8):
Times have changed, and passengers are becoming accustomed to no frills. 5 years ago, passengers could accept no frills for flights up to 2 hours. 3 years ago this crept up to 3 hours, and now I am sure if the fare was right, passengers would do without the frills for 4-5 hours. Therefore, I think that we shall soon see LCCs operating to the Canaries and possibly also IST.

It's an untapped LCC market, and Jet2 are the first carrier to really have a shot at it. I think they'll succeed, though I'd think MAN offers a better catchment to LBA. Are LS 757 solely being used on this route? QAre any other routes in the pipeline for this type?

Quoting BCAL (Reply 8):
I think that FR have already been in discussions with TFN regarding the possibility of their starting services next summer.

Indeed. See my thread Ryanair On COurse to serve TFN which is an enjoyable and informative read Big grin

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ACEregular
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RE: Will We See Low Cost To Canaries?

Fri Oct 28, 2005 7:44 pm

I have heard rumours of a Spanish base for U2 but not for another year or so at least. If they did open a Spanish base I am sure they would sell seats to the Canaries as IB, AEA and JK have the monopoly stranglehold on the routes like BA, BD and JE had before low cost changed the face of UK domestic flying in the UK. That however would mean making connections if you wished to travel to the Canaries from the UK. I have just flown BA there at a cost of 99.00 return from LGW which is a bargain. I never would have thought I could get a cheap fare with them but First Choice wanted 408.00 for a 7nt flight only - thats disgusting! I reckon there is more than enough demand for the low costs to shake up the likes of BY and TCX on theses routes, what they do is very underhand, selling empty seats that have not been allocated to a package holiday at extotionate prices.
 
Orion737
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RE: Will We See Low Cost To Canaries?

Fri Oct 28, 2005 8:02 pm

I still believe that most UK passengers holidaying in the Canary Islands are doing so on a package holiday. Sure there are some Brits with property in the Canaires, particularly Tenerife and Lanzarote but this isnt on the scale of the villa/apartment ownership in the Costa Del Sol, Costa Blanca and Costa Almeria. Destinations like Malaga, Alicante and Murcia work well for LCCs because of the enourmous number of brits with property on the Spanish Mainland coasts.

The Balearic and Canary Islands have much less demand for seat only than Mainland Spain.

I do think that the extra travelling time to reach the Canary Islands would bring operational constraints for the LCCs, the time it takes to reach these destinations would mean the number of daily flights achieved by the aircraft would be considerable reduced. Therefore reducing revenue!!

I also believe that as the canary Islands are much further away than mainland Spain, the short stay/short break market is much reduced and most passengers there in winter holiday for a minimum of 7 nights and the ones who dont are already well catered for on exisiting services of GB Airways and ZB
 
7LBAC111
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RE: Will We See Low Cost To Canaries?

Fri Oct 28, 2005 8:04 pm

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 16):
I still believe that most UK passengers holidaying in the Canary Islands are doing so on a package holiday

Primarily because of limited scheduled operations and over priced charter flights.

It's a massive developing market. U2 will likely expolit it with the opening of their new Spanish base, wherever that may be!

7LBAC111
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ACEregular
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RE: Will We See Low Cost To Canaries?

Fri Oct 28, 2005 8:19 pm

ITs rubbish to say the majority of brits going there are on pacjkage holidays, they in fact are in decline. I once worked for a tour operator in the canaries and can tell you that its a very changed market place now. the dawning of independant bookings via the web is on the up. the like sof Thomson are cutting back on Reps in resort as guests just dont want that service anymore. I myself booked flight and car and apartment seperately online and saved a tidy sum in doing so. Speaking to people in resort a lot are doing similar. I would have been happy going for 5 days, I do not think the 4 hour flight would put me off, in the winter thats only a short flight for more or less good weather which is not always the case on the mainland.
 
Orion737
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RE: Will We See Low Cost To Canaries?

Fri Oct 28, 2005 8:26 pm

But of course, however, I still believe that 7 or 14 even 21 nights is the prefered duration for a holiday in the Canaries.

People go over to visit their villa owning relatives on the Costa Blanca and stay for a weekend but the Canaries are a 4+ hour flight and from Northern England and Scotland its close on 5 hours! a bit far for a 2 0r 3 or even 4 night stay.

The El Golfo area of Tenerife South has quite a few timeshare properties and private apartment owners and similar exist in Lanzarote but they are adequatley catered for at the moment. I dont think an LCC would find it easy to fill multiple weekly departures to the Canaries and as I say a rotation to TFS there and back would be over 9 hours from 'up North' and impacting the number of flights able to be carried out by an aircraft.

LCCs work with short routes like LBA-EDI and some longer routes like EMA-ALC but TFS would almost mean that the aircraft operating that route would barely be able to fit in other flights that day. This means fares to TFS would have to be much higher and probably would be more expensive than existing GB Airways flights!!
 
aireuropeuk733
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RE: Will We See Low Cost To Canaries?

Fri Oct 28, 2005 8:48 pm

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 19):
but TFS would almost mean that the aircraft operating that route would barely be able to fit in other flights that day.



Quoting N1120A (Reply 6):
Funny, since LCCs in the US fly nearly twice that far in the US all the time.

They appear to be able to manage it in the States. I know that alot of costs go into a flight but the longer the plane is in the air the less landing fees it would incur. Wouldn't that help with the cost of these longer flights?

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Orion737
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RE: Will We See Low Cost To Canaries?

Fri Oct 28, 2005 8:53 pm

Yes but operating one sector per aircraft would fetch in less revenue than operating 3 or 4 or 5 return flights to nearer destinations!

Fares would have to be quite high by LCC standards to make a long run to the Canary Islands profitable, as such a return leg would occupy the aircraft for most of the day.
 
BCAL
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RE: Will We See Low Cost To Canaries?

Fri Oct 28, 2005 8:53 pm

7LBAC111 - Good to see that great minds think alike  blush 

However, just one small correction

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 14):
Jet2 are the first carrier to really have a shot at it.

GO tried it several years back - see my Reply 8 above.

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 16):
I still believe that most UK passengers holidaying in the Canary Islands are doing so on a package holiday. Sure there are some Brits with property in the Canaires

Many British people have holiday homes and timeshares in the Canaries. In fact I remember reading that the Canaries are only behind mainland Spain and the Balearics in the top ten destinations for holiday homes. The fact that the Canaries are all-year resorts give them an advantage over mainland Spain and the Balearics. Seats-only sales are beginning to overtake inclusive-tour passengers on the charters, so I think that the scales of package and independent tourists in the Canaries are now being tipped.
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ACEregular
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RE: Will We See Low Cost To Canaries?

Fri Oct 28, 2005 9:04 pm

Using the current U2 timetable I have looked at how an aircraft could be utilised and still be on the ground overnight for any work needed. This is the current early morning Malaga flight.

0700 LTN - AGP 1100 / 1130 AGP - LTN 1335

upon arriving at LTN there would be a crew change and the flight could be ready to depart at 14:10

14:15 LTN - TFS 18:50 / 19:30 TFS - LTN 0005

It would easily work, though perhaps not at LTN as ZB already fly daily but at other airports. there is plenty of time in the day and the 2nd crew woudl be i hours to do the TFS return sectors.
 
Orion737
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RE: Will We See Low Cost To Canaries?

Fri Oct 28, 2005 9:08 pm

I am sure that airlines like EasyJet and Ryanair are aware of the Canasry Islands and then popularity with UK holidaymakers, particularly during winter. Yet they have yet to operate any flights there at all!

I think there must be a few good reasons that is the case, some of which I outlined in my earlier posts.

Go only briefly operated TFS and found it a fairly tough nut to crack. I am sure if FR or EZY were interested in the Canaries they would have offered services there a long time ago!
 
diesel1
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RE: Will We See Low Cost To Canaries?

Fri Oct 28, 2005 9:08 pm

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 19):
The El Golfo area of Tenerife South has quite a few timeshare properties and private apartment owners and similar exist in Lanzarote but they are adequatley catered for at the moment



Quoting Orion737 (Reply 19):
I dont think an LCC would find it easy to fill multiple weekly departures to the Canaries

This is taking a static, somewhat blinkered or narrowminded viewpoint on the market - the (pioneering) LCCs have developed new market sectors with new passengers.

Who would have ever thought that BRS could sustain the 27 routes (iirc) that easyJet offer?
Who would have thought that airports like CWL or MME would support several flights weekly, year round to PRG?

Therefore we should not just think what the market is at present, but consider whether through the introduction of LCC flights how this market could be developed and how it would grow.

Additional services, where passengers won't be tied into set durations, will surely encourage additional travellers, whether those passengers be holiday makers, visiting friends and relatives, or on business (Contrary to what some think, prudent companies like the LCCs as they offer the opportunity to reduce costs).

Remember too, that the market is not just UK originating.
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Orion737
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RE: Will We See Low Cost To Canaries?

Fri Oct 28, 2005 9:12 pm

I do think flights from say MME to TFS or LPL-ACE are almost entirely UK originating. I think the market for the host population visitng small provincial UK cities would be minimal indeed.
 
AIHTOURS
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RE: Will We See Low Cost To Canaries?

Fri Oct 28, 2005 9:15 pm

Thomsonfly are offering low-cost services to Gran Canaria and Tenerife from Doncaster Sheffield Airport this winter.

Thomsonfly also celebrate 6 months of successful operation at Doncaster Sheffield Airport today.

Regards,
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7LBAC111
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RE: Will We See Low Cost To Canaries?

Sat Oct 29, 2005 12:11 am

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 26):
I do think flights from say MME to TFS or LPL-ACE are almost entirely UK originating

Of course, but this can be a stimulated market. Not all pax do 2 sector holidays, many do little tours, so I don;t know, HHN-TFN-STN-HHN as an example for FR pax.

Who'd have thought FR could make LPL-RIX work, but they do. Or W6 with LPL-KTW.

People go to different places these days, and I believe there are more and more people preferring not to be tied to 7,14, or 21 day breaks. This is the new market the LCC's will pioneer, as BCAL says above.

7LBAC111
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7LBAC111
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RE: Will We See Low Cost To Canaries?

Sat Oct 29, 2005 12:16 am

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 19):
I still believe that 7 or 14 even 21 nights is the prefered duration for a holiday in the Canaries

You may want to back that up! Stats etc?

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 19):
People go over to visit their villa owning relatives on the Costa Blanca and stay for a weekend but the Canaries are a 4+ hour flight and from Northern England and Scotland its close on 5 hours! a bit far for a 2 0r 3 or even 4 night stay.

I disagree. The short break market to The US east coast is huge. And they are 6-8 hour flights.

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 19):
LCCs work with short routes like LBA-EDI

So how come nobody serves that route then Orion? (Except BD for their tea drinking scone scoffing businessmen!?)  sarcastic 

7LBAC111
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diesel1
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RE: Will We See Low Cost To Canaries?

Sat Oct 29, 2005 12:33 am

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 26):
I do think flights from say MME to TFS or LPL-ACE are almost entirely UK originating.

Of course they are - thats the way they're sold.

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 26):
I think the market for the host population visitng small provincial UK cities would be minimal indeed

Considering your comments around these two airports, it's important not to be blinkered in your way of thinking.

Using your example of Liverpool as a "small provincial city" (actually something it isn't) and bearing in mind that it is European City of Culture in 2008, there is tremendous potential for inward tourist traffic.

It is narrowminded to suggest that 'no-one (or hardly no one...) would want to visit there' when considering anywhere. Look at the business Ryanair have developed to realise the fallacy of what you're suggesting.
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planesarecool
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RE: Will We See Low Cost To Canaries?

Sat Oct 29, 2005 12:40 am

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 19):
But of course, however, I still believe that 7 or 14 even 21 nights is the prefered duration for a holiday in the Canaries.

Not me. In fact a lot of people i know go to places such as the Canaries for 10 or 11 nights. 7 nights for me is too short, and 14 is too long. I'd certainly wouldn't go for 21 nights, unless i was moving around from island to island.
 
Orion737
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RE: Will We See Low Cost To Canaries?

Sat Oct 29, 2005 12:49 am

Plenty of 10 and 11 night durations available with most tour operators and charter airlines. While 21 days may not suit you or I, major tour ops do a roaring trade in winter with Long stay 'specials' where grandmama goes with Renee or Mavis for 2 months to avoid the gas bills.
 
HT
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RE: Will We See Low Cost To Canaries?

Sat Oct 29, 2005 12:52 am

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 28):
Who'd have thought FR could make LPL-RIX work, but they do. Or W6 with LPL-KTW.

I think those routes mentioned are doing okay due to the fact that they have O&D on both sides of the rotation, whereas UK-Canaries would primarily carry pax from the UK only.
-HT
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Orion737
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RE: Will We See Low Cost To Canaries?

Sat Oct 29, 2005 12:56 am

Very good point HT and thank you for backing up my viewpoint. Eastern Europeans are increasingly coming to work and live in Northern England so these routes have passengers at either end.

Not many Canary Island residents are fleeing their sunny Islands for wet and windy Liverpool or Leeds!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
richardw
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RE: Will We See Low Cost To Canaries?

Sat Oct 29, 2005 1:05 am

LGW-FNC is a bit shorter, perhaps that might be slightly more viable.

I'm slightly surprised that GT started LGW-SSH, I think they are hoping for a good amount of Club Egypt Business class passengers.

BTW

GT fly 4 times on Fridays this winter LGW-TCI, 3 flights to TFS, 1 to TFN.
 
Orion737
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RE: Will We See Low Cost To Canaries?

Sat Oct 29, 2005 1:07 am

FNC is not no-frills territory. Madeira is very much for the older more discerning holidaymaker. It isnt a cheap and cheerful, pile it high and sell it cheap destination.

It has more 5 star hotels than the Canaries put together. I dont think Funchal has a need or would want to attract LCCs. They do very well with the older, well-heeled holidaymakers who arrive on charter or full service airlines.
 
jmc757
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RE: Will We See Low Cost To Canaries?

Sat Oct 29, 2005 1:13 am

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 1):
GO and MYT Lite operated a few seasonal flights with limited success

MyTravelLite's TFS services from BXH were actually very succesful, good load factors. The route being dropped was more the fact of MyTravel not really knowing where they were going with the Lite concept, and the troubles the group were in. MyTravel did not offer hot meal services on the flight and it was still succesful.

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 16):
I still believe that most UK passengers holidaying in the Canary Islands are doing so on a package holiday. Sure there are some Brits with property in the Canaires, particularly Tenerife and Lanzarote but this isnt on the scale of the villa/apartment ownership in the Costa Del Sol, Costa Blanca and Costa Almeria. Destinations like Malaga, Alicante and Murcia work well for LCCs because of the enourmous number of brits with property on the Spanish Mainland coasts.

I take your point there is more of a market on mainland Spain, but the Canaries are very popular for DIY holidays, and have been so for many years. People may not own property, but there are a lot of companies that specialise in renting properties in Tenerife especially. My family have been to Tenerife in 1997, 2001 and 2003. All of these were DIY. Even in 1997 there were loads of people DIY'ing in the Canaries, it was popular around here, many friends and colleagues had done so. The market is definately there.
 
7LBAC111
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RE: Will We See Low Cost To Canaries?

Sat Oct 29, 2005 1:14 am

Quoting HT (Reply 33):
I think those routes mentioned are doing okay due to the fact that they have O&D on both sides of the rotation, whereas UK-Canaries would primarily carry pax from the UK only.

Of course, but not entirely! The assumption being put forward is that the traffic will be all one way and this simply isn;t going to be the case. Yes, it will make up the vast majority - that cannot be denied.

Quoting HT (Reply 33):
Very good point HT and thank you for backing up my viewpoint

What viewpoint? You (Orion737) never replied to my post!!!

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 32):
major tour ops do a roaring trade in winter with Long stay 'specials' where grandmama goes with Renee or Mavis for 2 months to avoid the gas bills.

Is Grandmama taking you this year then? How do you get off constantly stereotyping people and markets Orion. Your blinkered (thanks Diesel1) approach to everything is incredible!

7LBAC111
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
richardw
Posts: 3131
Joined: Tue May 08, 2001 3:17 am

RE: Will We See Low Cost To Canaries?

Sat Oct 29, 2005 1:15 am

Older more discerning holidaymakers do fly no frills airlines, how do you think they get to Portofino and Reid's Palace. FR advertises in Newspapers that appeal to the older more discerning holidaymakers and second home owners. Granted Madeira isn't Benidorm. Torremolinos or Playa de las Americas.
 
Orion737
Posts: 3044
Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2005 10:14 pm

RE: Will We See Low Cost To Canaries?

Sat Oct 29, 2005 1:30 am

Far from it 'would madame care for a cucumber sandwich and a pot of Earl Gray on the terrace at Reids?' I dont think she would care to get there on Ryanair!!
 
BCAL
Posts: 2925
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 10:16 pm

RE: Will We See Low Cost To Canaries?

Sat Oct 29, 2005 1:44 am

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 36):
It has more 5 star hotels than the Canaries put together

I guess that you have not been to Gran Canaria recently and seen all the 5-star hotels opening or being built. I think that over the past 18 months, 5 such hotels opened near Maspolomas (sorry not sure on spelling) Beach.

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 19):
I still believe that 7 or 14 even 21 nights is the prefered duration for a holiday in the Canaries

I have several friends/acquaintances who regularly pop over to Gran Canaria for long weekends - out on Saturday back on Monday. Lucky bug%$rs!
MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
 
7LBAC111
Posts: 2427
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 9:17 am

RE: Will We See Low Cost To Canaries?

Sat Oct 29, 2005 2:09 am

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 40):
Far from it 'would madame care for a cucumber sandwich and a pot of Earl Gray on the terrace at Reids?' I dont think she would care to get there on Ryanair!!

Then Orion, you are more narrowminded than I think any of us ever imagined!
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
Orion737
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RE: Will We See Low Cost To Canaries?

Sat Oct 29, 2005 2:16 am

Not at all, just pointing out that the Madeira market is different to say, Tenerife. I worked for a company called Martyn Holidays in the early 90s who were a tour operator specialising in holidays to Portugal and Madeira and visited Madeira on several occasions.

The market was older, wealthier holidaymakers and the island has a very high concentration of 4 and 5 star hotels. I just dont honestly think an LCC would do well operating into FNC and I think that is bourne out by the fact that none do or ever have flown to FNC!!
 
Capital146
Posts: 2099
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2003 8:45 pm

RE: Will We See Low Cost To Canaries?

Sat Oct 29, 2005 2:58 am

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 1):
Also the Canaries are served extensivley from regional a[irports like LBA, HUY, NCL, LPL etc

The Canaries are not really served extensively from LBA, just a skeleton charter service until now when compared to other regional airports. Quite a slap in the face for LBA when you note that HUY has had a greater service in the past, given the former's much larger catchment area. That's no offence to HUY, those who know me know HUY has a special place in my heart.  Smile

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 14):
It's an untapped LCC market, and Jet2 are the first carrier to really have a shot at it. I think they'll succeed, though I'd think MAN offers a better catchment to LBA. Are LS 757 solely being used on this route? QAre any other routes in the pipeline for this type?

I would argue that LBA has better potential than MAN for LS to add services to TFS. MAN already has ZB offering an excellent scheduled service on the route, together with a huge number of charter flights which offer seat-only fares.

LBA in comparison, has a catchment area not too much less than MAN, given some overlap between the two, yet has until now had no scheduled services to TFS and at most just 2 or 3 charters each week. In fact a large percentage of passengers using MAN are from LBA's immediate catchment area! Look at how well LS have done from LBA with most of their other services due to a virtual lack of competition, when compared to those they offer from MAN which they have had to fight much harder for, to tempt from other carriers.
Like a fine wine, one gets better with age.
 
ACEregular
Topic Author
Posts: 577
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2003 8:00 am

RE: Will We See Low Cost To Canaries?

Sat Oct 29, 2005 3:29 am

Its good to see a lot of people do share my view that the LCC are missing out on a good market, I really do hope we get some carriers starting flights down there. LS from LBA is a great start but it only goes on the main airport days, I would add 2 more rotations a week.

Hopefully we will soon see. Have just reasd the book about Go by Barbara Cassani and in it she mentions that when Go didnt appear to be doing too well it was only once they began to go into the primarily charter destinations which U2 and FR had avoided that things looked up. TFS and LPA may be out of range on the derated equiptment but am sure that in time they will see what a good year round return they would get.
 
greenjet
Posts: 869
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2001 9:59 pm

RE: Will We See Low Cost To Canaries?

Sat Oct 29, 2005 3:34 am

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 1):
A more substantial meal service may need to be at least available for purchase and FR and EZY have limited galley facilities, unlike ZB (still can buy a hot meal on a flight to Canaries) .

Most people don't care about being able to buy a hot meal on a 4 hour flight. The main concerns are more likely to be price, punctuality and safety. In-flight catering on short haul is increasingly becoming a thing of the past. It's just a costly luxury and not a necessity.
 
Orion737
Posts: 3044
Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2005 10:14 pm

RE: Will We See Low Cost To Canaries?

Sat Oct 29, 2005 3:39 am

A flight from Northerly UK airports to the Canary Islands run in at close to 5 hours! Thats a medium haul flight!
 
ACEregular
Topic Author
Posts: 577
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2003 8:00 am

RE: Will We See Low Cost To Canaries?

Sat Oct 29, 2005 5:17 am

Orion, I flew with Britannia to Tenerife recently on a 4hr 10 minute flight. the flight was on a 757-200 with 41 seat rows, I was seated at row 25 and only passengers seated in rows 1-21 were given an inflight meal. Britannia always seat the meal eating passengers from the front towards the back, ensuring the crew know exactly who have prepaid. That leaves 20 rows (roughly half the plane) that are able to fly on a 4hr flight and cope with eating only what they bring with them or what the crew sell.

I would say that those passengers who have chosen not to eat would not quite but nearly fill a 149 seater plane (as favoured by U2) and probably pay less than they paid to Thomson for the priveledge of being made to feel like steerage. Cos at U2 everyone is the same - no class division, monetary or otherwise.
 
Horus
Posts: 5131
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2004 1:04 am

RE: Will We See Low Cost To Canaries?

Mon Oct 31, 2005 6:53 am

Quoting Richardw (Reply 35):
'm slightly surprised that GT started LGW-SSH, I think they are hoping for a good amount of Club Egypt Business class passengers.

Egypt is extremely popular with holidaymakers, especially the Red Sea resorts, which have seen phenomenal growth in the past 2 years. I think it made good sence for GT to start scheduled service to SSH and HRG to compete with Astraeus's 3x weekly LGW-SSH B757 scheduled flights and get 'a piece of the pie'.

As for loads, here is information on yesturdays (29/10) flights:

Sharm El Sheikh

LGW-SSH BA6858 G-TTOE
Seats Available: 20C/131M
Booked: 16C/88M

SSH-LGW BA6859 G-TTOE
Seats Available: 55C/89M (aircraft reconfigured in SSH)
Booked: 48C/75M


Hurghada

LGW-HRG BA6860 G-TTOG
Seats Available: 20C/131M
Booked: 2C/83M

HRG-LGW BA6861 G-TTOG
Seats Available: 15C/137M (aircraft reconfigured in HRG)
Booked: 14C/141M (i.e. flight overbooked by 4 in M class)


The loads seem very high for 2 routes that only started a week a go (but I guess the school half term holidays has helped). It seems Business Class is doing very well on the SSH route.


Horus
EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation

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