lsgg
Posts: 542
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2005 9:48 pm

Swiss European Airlines Take Off The 1st Nov

Fri Oct 28, 2005 7:39 pm

Hi there !


Swiss European finally has the clearance of the OFAC (Federal Office of Civil Aviation) to take off next Thursday.

LX decided to create an all new regional airline (his own Crossair Big grin) to cut down his regional flight cost...

Fleet planned : 24 AVRO


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Swissair forever !
 
HAJFlyer
Posts: 1349
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 7:34 pm

RE: Swiss European Airlines Take Off The 1st Nov

Fri Oct 28, 2005 9:13 pm

Well lets hope this new resurrected Crossair will have a better safety record than its predecessor which ruined its reputation by cutting too many corners and killing lots of people as a result. At the moment Swiss prosecutors are still investigating the old management which stands accused of manslaughter.

I am quite certain that the focus on one aircraft type and the fleet harmonisation with LH City line will enable them to significantly reduce their operating costs on the highly competitive European routes.

In the end the success of this operation will depend once again on whether the new LX management will be able to successfully resolve the labor issues that have so far hampered their efforts to restructure the carrier.
 
Amy
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Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2005 9:48 am

RE: Swiss European Airlines Take Off The 1st Nov

Fri Oct 28, 2005 9:41 pm

Good for Swiss!

I hope the new airline works well and it's good to see airlines relying on BAe's product. The old girl is far from dead yet!
A340-300 - slow, but awesome!
 
HAJFlyer
Posts: 1349
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 7:34 pm

RE: Swiss European Airlines Take Off The 1st Nov

Fri Oct 28, 2005 10:06 pm

Quoting Amy (Reply 2):
it's good to see airlines relying on BAe's product. The old girl is far from dead yet!

If it weren't so cheap to lease, the type would probably be gone by now as a result of rather high MX costs and a reliability track record that is not exactly stellar (remember the engine explosion next AMS not so long ago ?).
 
CV990
Posts: 4224
Joined: Sat May 22, 1999 3:49 am

RE: Swiss European Airlines Take Off The 1st Nov

Fri Oct 28, 2005 11:31 pm

Hi!

Regarding Crossair, did they actually "killed lot's of people"? I think they had two unfortune accidents, one with a SAAB 340 and one with a RJ85/RJ100 but that killed maybe 30 people! Am I missing any other Crossair big accident?
I think for SWISS this will infact be good! I think SWISS main quality products ( intercontinental ) are excelent and I always think SWISS is so global like LH, KL, BA etc. etc! That means that if I need to fly anywhere in the world and SWISS have a great offer I'll be pleased to fly with them!!!
Regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
HAJFlyer
Posts: 1349
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 7:34 pm

RE: Swiss European Airlines Take Off The 1st Nov

Fri Oct 28, 2005 11:43 pm

Quoting CV990 (Reply 4):
Regarding Crossair, did they actually "killed lot's of people"? I think they had two unfortune accidents, one with a SAAB 340 and one with a RJ85/RJ100 but that killed maybe 30 people!

Well, ever single death is one too many especially considering that many other regional operators have never had a crash resulting in casualties. Besides two crashes within a rather short period of time is nothing to brag about especially when you look at the circumstances of these accidents.

The report by federal investigators on the Saab accident was scathing to say the very least.
 
SQ7345
Posts: 75
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2004 2:03 am

RE: Swiss European Airlines Take Off The 1st Nov

Sat Oct 29, 2005 12:17 am

Although beeing a supporter of Crossair from the very beginning I also think that these 2 accidents very 2 too many.
Despite all the good things they have done, their spirit, their youth, accidents always have a bad taste. Unfortunately the second happend when Swissair was to be merged into Crossair under a Plan called Phönix+! What happened then - you all know.
 
CV990
Posts: 4224
Joined: Sat May 22, 1999 3:49 am

RE: Swiss European Airlines Take Off The 1st Nov

Sat Oct 29, 2005 12:29 am

Hi!

Well I truly undertand and I agree with you in all. But because you said "lot's of people" I was thinking maybe there was another big accident with Crossair that I didn't knew, just that!
Those two accidents were bad, but did that affect badly Crossair reputation in the end?
Regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
saab2000
Posts: 1216
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2001 6:19 pm

RE: Swiss European Airlines Take Off The 1st Nov

Sat Oct 29, 2005 4:09 am

I used to fly for Crossair. There is no doubt that those two accidents had a terrible impact on the reputation of the company. The problem in SWISS and their relationship with the Crossair pilots was that the reputation was bad based on truly just a handful of pilots. The overwhelming majority of the pilots I flew with were very safety-oriented and followed procedures strictly. But it only takes one accident to ruin the reputation. Additionally, there were a number of incidents which should not have happened.

Am I turning my back on my former colleagues from Crossair? No. The majority would agree with this. Safety was concern nr. 1 for everyone, but there were a few pilots who should not have been there.
smrtrthnu
 
CV990
Posts: 4224
Joined: Sat May 22, 1999 3:49 am

RE: Swiss European Airlines Take Off The 1st Nov

Sat Oct 29, 2005 7:48 pm

Hi Saab2000!

Wise words man, wise words!!! If we look to our lives we will find out that in any business we worked for..... people that "will wear the t-shirt" and do everything on behalf of the company, and others that what only matters is their selfish dreams. But I still consider Crossair has a great airline and even with those two accidents I wouldn't mind to fly with them!!!!
Regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
HS748
Posts: 621
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2005 3:01 am

RE: Swiss European Airlines Take Off The 1st Nov

Sat Oct 29, 2005 8:03 pm

Quoting HAJFlyer (Reply 3):
If it weren't so cheap to lease, the type would probably be gone by now as a result of rather high MX costs and a reliability track record that is not exactly stellar

Absolutely! I've just read a book by the founder of CityJet and he slates the 146's engines for appalling reliability and Saab for appalling customer support.
 
bennett123
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Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

RE: Swiss European Airlines Take Off The 1st Nov

Sat Oct 29, 2005 8:08 pm

Concerning the BAE 146, I recall that at least 3 BAE146 and 2RJ have had lengthy grounding due to wing/fuel tank corrosion in the last few years.

Given that few seem to have more than 30,000 Hours on the clock and less than 400 were built, this does not bode well. These are NOT old aircraft.
 
rootsair
Posts: 4012
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2005 3:25 am

RE: Swiss European Airlines Take Off The 1st Nov

Sat Oct 29, 2005 8:32 pm

Will there be a different livery for the airline? I hope so, Swiss livery is sooo simple and lame
A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
 
ZRH
Posts: 4371
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 1999 11:32 pm

RE: Swiss European Airlines Take Off The 1st Nov

Sat Oct 29, 2005 9:49 pm

Quoting RootsAir (Reply 12):
Will there be a different livery for the airline? I hope so, Swiss livery is sooo simple and lame

No there won't be. They only will have an inscription under the cockpit window. BTW I like the Swiss livery because it is classy, clean and elegant (specifically on the former MD 11 and the A 332). It is not so terribly kitschy like many paintings with way too much color.
 
rootsair
Posts: 4012
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2005 3:25 am

RE: Swiss European Airlines Take Off The 1st Nov

Sat Oct 29, 2005 9:51 pm

Quoting ZRH (Reply 13):
BTW I like the Swiss livery because it is classy, clean and elegant (specifically on the former MD 11 and the A 332). It is not so terribly kitschy like many paintings with way too much color.

Everyone one has their own taste..
A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
 
CV990
Posts: 4224
Joined: Sat May 22, 1999 3:49 am

RE: Swiss European Airlines Take Off The 1st Nov

Sat Oct 29, 2005 11:24 pm

Hi!

I'm sorry to disagree but SWISS livery reflects really well everything related with Switzerland!!! You don't need anything else rather than the Swiss flag and I tell you everyone in the WORLD will now that we are seeing a swiss airplane arriving! NOT ONLY one airline can be identified like SWISS around the world! I'm talking for example about Portugal, if we had TAP with only the flag in the tail people would probably confuse with any country in Africa/Asia/South America, but when we see that red tail with a white cross we KNOW that it was a swiss aircraft from Switzerland arrived!
In December 2003 I was at LAX waiting for my flight to Europe, and I was flying SWISS from LAX to ZRH. LAX is one of the most buzziest airports in the world, with a lot of airlines, liveries, colours, etc. etc. but I tell you one thing, when the A340-313X from SWISS landed and taxied to our gate at Tom Bradley Terminal I could "ear" words like " It's from Switzerland", " Swiss is arriving".... that livery reflects the way swiss people are, simple, cool, calm!
People can ask why I say all those things about them beeing a portuguese? Well simple because I'm been working and relating with them since many years, and you can only understand swiss people and mentallity when you have been exposed and related after many years!
Regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
BBJII
Posts: 831
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2005 7:22 pm

RE: Swiss European Airlines Take Off The 1st Nov

Sat Oct 29, 2005 11:48 pm

S

Quoting HS748 (Reply 10):



Quoting HS748 (Reply 10):
Quoting HAJFlyer (Reply 3):
If it weren't so cheap to lease, the type would probably be gone by now as a result of rather high MX costs and a reliability track record that is not exactly stellar

Absolutely! I've just read a book by the founder of CityJet and he slates the 146's engines for appalling reliability and Saab for appalling customer support.



Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 11):
Bennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 1447 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted Sat Oct 29 2005 13:08:30 UTC+2 and read 157 times:


Concerning the BAE 146, I recall that at least 3 BAE146 and 2RJ have had lengthy grounding due to wing/fuel tank corrosion in the last few years.

Given that few seem to have more than 30,000 Hours on the clock and less than 400 were built, this does not bode well. These are NOT old aircraft.

So Cityjet don't like the 146...so why do they keep getting them ?

The problematic fuel corrosion was located on EI-CPY...of ....Cityjet...reason...poor maintainace according to what the Irish Reports said...(No link OLD STORY)....EI cummuter were comissioned by the Irish Goverment to repair the problem and issue a report.

Needless to say that the WX 146 fleet has serviced by EI in Dublin and Former LX teams in ORY.


Crossair relaunch (or whatever the Swiss want to call it), is a welcome move and hopefully the management of Swiss are noe learning the errors of there ways  Smile
Remember: The Bird Hit You, You Didn't Hit The Bird.....
 
bennett123
Posts: 7441
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

RE: Swiss European Airlines Take Off The 1st Nov

Sun Oct 30, 2005 1:44 am

I was not aware of E1003 EI-CPY. I understand that they only had it from 24/07/1998 to 25/10/1998, 04/1999 to 10/1999, 13/10/2000 to early 2001 18/05/2001 to 23/08/2001. This is a period of 3 years, of which they actually operated it for about 14 months. It is not clear when they had the problems, but either it worked OK for the first two periods and then started playing up or it was a pup from the word go, it which case why keep taaking it back.

I was thinking of E2047 G-OZRH 2004, E2066 I-TERK 2003, E1095 A5-RGD 2001, E3264 TC-THM and E3265 TC-THO both in 2004.
 
HS748
Posts: 621
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2005 3:01 am

RE: Swiss European Airlines Take Off The 1st Nov

Sun Oct 30, 2005 2:12 am

Quoting BBJII (Reply 16):
So Cityjet don't like the 146...so why do they keep getting them ?

Relatively cheap lease rates and ability to operate into LCY.

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