HeeseokKoo
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Why DEL Schedules Changes 16DEC-31JAN?

Sun Oct 30, 2005 2:33 am

I wonder why schedules of some of the around-midnight flights to DEL flights are changed from mid-DEC to late JAN.

SQ : SIN-DEL-SIN 1850-2200 2315-0710
but it goes to.. 1620-1930 2045-0440+1
OZ : ICN-DEL-ICN 1930-0020+1 0200-1150
but goes to 1240-1810 1950-0550+1
CX : HKG-DEL-HKG 2220-0210+1 0740-1505
but goes to 0930-1320 1440-2205
TG : BKK-DEL-BKK 1950-2245 0005-0535
but goes to 1735-2030 2220-0330+1

Maybe there are few more examples. I remember that it has happened for several years, maybe since long ago. Can anybody tell me why they do that?
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Why DEL Schedules Changes 16DEC-31JAN?

Sun Oct 30, 2005 2:44 am

Its called "FOG".
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
N1120A
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RE: Why DEL Schedules Changes 16DEC-31JAN?

Sun Oct 30, 2005 2:48 am

Question. Does DEL not have a Cat. IIIb ILS or is the fog THAT bad?
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
comorin
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RE: Why DEL Schedules Changes 16DEC-31JAN?

Sun Oct 30, 2005 6:07 am

Yes, the fog is THAT bad! I remember a 3 a.m.taxi ride from IGI airport that I shared with a terrified young lady from France. The fog was so bad that the driver had his 'chokra' (assistant) wipe the windshield from the OUTSIDE en route, sticking his body and hands out of the window. I had to convince my fellow traveler that this was SOP to calm her nerves down, as we lurched between overloaded trucks competing for road space. We finally arrived at my stop (the Sheraton) but she had no stomach to travel further to her hotel midtown. I handed her over to the excellent desk staff at the Sheraton, who immediately took charge and arranged a chauffeur-driven Mercedes for her for FREE. I hope she had a great visit to India from thence on.

Fog tales aside, aggravating the situation is that DEL is/was one of the world's most polluted capitals. New pollution laws may make a difference this winter...

As per ATC in India, DEL is CAT II but the ATC's aren't very thrilled with the equipment...

http://www.atcguild.com/Letters/2005/ATCCapacityEnhancementIGI.asp

I look forward to MEL's usual expert viewpoint on this.
 
CHI787ORD
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RE: Why DEL Schedules Changes 16DEC-31JAN?

Sun Oct 30, 2005 9:16 am

The Winter Fog is northern India is terrible. From Amritsar all the way to Jaipur, on some nights you are not even able to see 2-3 feet ahead of the car.

On a side note... are AA's ORD-DEL and CO's EWR-DEL schedule changing as well?
 
HeeseokKoo
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RE: Why DEL Schedules Changes 16DEC-31JAN?

Sun Oct 30, 2005 11:41 am

Wow! I didn't know about that fog. Thanks for the info.

Quoting CHI787ORD (Reply 4):
On a side note... are AA's ORD-DEL and CO's EWR-DEL schedule changing as well?

It seems CO & AA not change its schedule.
 
N1120A
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RE: Why DEL Schedules Changes 16DEC-31JAN?

Sun Oct 30, 2005 11:44 am

Quoting Comorin (Reply 3):
As per ATC in India, DEL is CAT II but the ATC's aren't very thrilled with the equipment...

That is a problem right there. If the airport has such bad fog problems, there is no reason it should not have a Cat. IIIb system. Additionally, do AI, 9W and other Indian carriers order aircraft with HUD?
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Why DEL Schedules Changes 16DEC-31JAN?

Mon Oct 31, 2005 12:05 am

Quoting Comorin (Reply 3):
As per ATC in India, DEL is CAT II but the ATC's aren't very thrilled with the equipment

Last I heard it was Cat IIIB.
I'll confirm & get back.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
cricket
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RE: Why DEL Schedules Changes 16DEC-31JAN?

Mon Oct 31, 2005 12:22 am

Quoting Comorin (Reply 3):
As per ATC in India, DEL is CAT II but the ATC's aren't very thrilled with the equipment...

Runway 10 is definately CATIIIB, Runway 28 is CATII. I'm not sure about 09-27. However, the fog is so bad that the visibility goes below CATIIIB minima (~250m) and DEL doesn't have CATIIIC which will allow almost zero visibility landings. A lot of domestic flights also get delayed because many of the private carriers don't have CATIIIB certified pilots.
A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Why DEL Schedules Changes 16DEC-31JAN?

Mon Oct 31, 2005 12:45 am

Quoting Cricket (Reply 8):

The Best part the Fog appears quite rapidly.
Its tough times for Mx at BOM,because of the Diversions & Delays at BOM.This time is my Unofficial Weight reduction programme. Smile
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
cricket
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RE: Why DEL Schedules Changes 16DEC-31JAN?

Mon Oct 31, 2005 1:03 am

The fog can settle down anytime after 2000 and may not move until 1000 in the morning. Twice I've had BOM-DEL flights diverted thanks to the fog - Once we went to Jaipur (on 9W) and the second time my S2 flight returned to BOM (and waited 20 minutes for a parking bay). It is bad idea to catch late evening flights to DEL of any carrier but IC (their pilots are trained to handle CATIIIB but on really bad days even they can't do much, hopefully this year 9W would have some CATIIIB trained pilots on their planes). After 2200-2300 sometimes the fog gets so so bad it is nearly zero visibility - you can't freaking drive on the roads - flying a plane would be out of the question.
A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
 
Pomnath
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RE: Why DEL Schedules Changes 16DEC-31JAN?

Mon Oct 31, 2005 1:42 pm

I think this subject goes evergreen every winter at a.net.

The long and short of it is that for a variety of reasons, met, thermal as well as geographical, the North Indian plains achieve a low visibility regime very close to the ground every winter. This is both horizontal as well as vertical, and even Cat IIIC would probably not suffice.

Add to that certain issues with the approach funnel . . .

But it is not all that bad. Most travellers handle the stress well. It is the small bunch of wannabes and similar noise makers who make it in front of the media to moan and groan.

For the rest it is a party. Ahmedabad, Lucknow and Jaipur are exotic cities with very cute (sic) airports that many of us would not see or visit otherwise.

No one formula works, though using Indian Airlines helps. Please remember to keep mobile phones fully charged, and carry some dry rations as well as those helpful jackets which have collars that can be used as pillows.
Sea to Sky, Racists should Die!!
 
cricket
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RE: Why DEL Schedules Changes 16DEC-31JAN?

Mon Oct 31, 2005 5:40 pm

Quoting Pomnath (Reply 11):
Please remember to keep mobile phones fully charged, and carry some dry rations as well as those helpful jackets which have collars that can be used as pillows.

An alarm clock woiuld help too to wake up in the morning at the strange hotel you might spend the night at (Sahara Star.. ugh!)
A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,

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