FaroeFlyer
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Infrared Deicing

Mon Oct 31, 2005 10:21 am

First in Europe to use infrared deicing

Together with Radiant and Oslo Lufthavn AS, which owns and runs Oslo Airport, SGS Norway will test out the use of infrared heat waves to deice aircraft.

Aircraft deiced by this method taxi through a specially built hangar in which snow and ice are removed by heat waves. Infrared deicing reduces runoff of the chemical glycol by around 70%.


Never heard of this before. Is this new or has it been in use for a while?
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Newark777
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RE: Infrared Deicing

Mon Oct 31, 2005 10:23 am

Quoting FaroeFlyer (Thread starter):
Never heard of this before. Is this new or has it been in use for a while?

It's been used at EWR for quite a while.

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EMBQA
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RE: Infrared Deicing

Mon Oct 31, 2005 10:36 am

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 1):
It's been used at EWR for quite a while.

Yea, at least 3 years. I went through EWR in 2002 and had IR deiceing.
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Mir
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RE: Infrared Deicing

Mon Oct 31, 2005 11:13 am

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 1):
It's been used at EWR for quite a while.

Where do they do this at EWR? I assume that they need some sort of infrastructure to do it.

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EMBQA
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RE: Infrared Deicing

Mon Oct 31, 2005 11:20 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 3):
Where do they do this at EWR? I assume that they need some sort of infrastructure to do it.

Well, I flew on Continental and it was near their hangar. You can see it from the Continental Concourse. It looks like an open ended hangar.
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Cory6188
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RE: Infrared Deicing

Mon Oct 31, 2005 11:28 am

Another note about the CO deicing structure @ EWR: While I'm not positive, I think that since they paid for its construction, they are the only ones that use it. It's much faster than chemical deicing and costs less (the deicing fluid costs more per gallon than Jet-A).
 
FaroeFlyer
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RE: Infrared Deicing

Mon Oct 31, 2005 11:39 am

Interesting. Wonder why no one else has tried this in Northern Europe until now. We do get alot of snow in the winters.

Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 5):
Another note about the CO deicing structure @ EWR: While I'm not positive, I think that since they paid for its construction, they are the only ones that use it.

It seems like the one at OSL will be available for all.

Is it faster or slower than normal deicing? Wondering about a possible traffic jam.
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N766UA
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RE: Infrared Deicing

Mon Oct 31, 2005 12:03 pm

Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 5):
(the deicing fluid costs more per gallon than Jet-A).

Sure does. It's up around 7 or 8 bucks a gallon.
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L-188
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RE: Infrared Deicing

Mon Oct 31, 2005 12:07 pm

Quoting FaroeFlyer (Thread starter):
Never heard of this before. Is this new or has it been in use for a while?

A few years back I had a medevac lear that got caught in snow at King Salmon Alaska. Since it was a military medevac, they made available one of the F-15 alert barns that was equiped with IR de-icing for us. So after the pt got loaded they pulled it into the barn, and the plane was clean very very quickly.
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HAWK21M
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RE: Infrared Deicing

Mon Oct 31, 2005 1:16 pm

Any Pictures available on the De-icing in question in progress.
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LongbowPilot
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RE: Infrared Deicing

Mon Oct 31, 2005 1:35 pm

There may also be a inherint amount of more risk doing it IR vs. Glycol. At least there might have been. That might be why it is slow to catch on.

As for De/Anti-Icing, that was my favorite time of year working in the airlines. I would get up in the Cherry Picker for 8 hours straight and hose the aircraft down. Talk about a very responsible job, you are responsible for the safe removal of all ice and snow. The passengers look out of their windows and gawk at you, hoping you are are doing it right. So .....
 
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STT757
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RE: Infrared Deicing

Mon Oct 31, 2005 1:48 pm

I went through it on a CO 737-900 on a trip to CUN back in January '02, I know there's a video of it's operation somewhere.
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flypdx
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RE: Infrared Deicing

Mon Oct 31, 2005 1:48 pm


From cruisinaltitude.com
 
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STT757
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RE: Infrared Deicing

Mon Oct 31, 2005 1:53 pm

There's a picture of the Newark Airport Rediant Energy De-icer on their home page with a CO 757 inside.

http://www.radiantenergycorp.com/

The Port Authority is going to build one at JFK,

http://www.panynj.gov/AboutthePortAu...ases/PressRelease/index.php?id=544

[Edited 2005-10-31 06:00:00]
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
md80fanatic
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RE: Infrared Deicing

Mon Oct 31, 2005 2:57 pm

The Airports should install a few of these in series at the end of the taxiway for departure runways. The planes would all travel through the device before departure...kind of like a pizza oven. In the summer the structure provides shade for the aircraft waiting for departure...when onboard temperature control is already being strained to the limit.
 
mika
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RE: Infrared Deicing

Mon Oct 31, 2005 4:18 pm

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 14):
...kind of like a pizza oven.

Nice analogy. Now the homer simpson part of me wishes that planes actually were made of pizza dough and topping!  drool 
 
backfire
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RE: Infrared Deicing

Mon Oct 31, 2005 8:25 pm

It's not new - the concept has been kicking around for years, and Oslo first became involved in 1999. The project ran into trouble in 2001 and was suspended.

Radiant has tried hard to get this concept accepted but it's been an uphill struggle and even now there's only a handful of airports which have completed and actually use the equipment.
 
yhz78
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RE: Infrared Deicing

Mon Oct 31, 2005 9:27 pm

I've heard that even with the IR hangar deicing you still need a quick wash of type 1 once you get out just to make sure no loose snow or ice are caught up in the flaps and such. Anybody know for sure wether this is the case?
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ltbewr
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RE: Infrared Deicing

Mon Oct 31, 2005 9:42 pm

The info on the website of the manufacturer of this system still says you need to apply de-icing fluid, but 90% less. Apparently some would still be be applied so that the a/c can keep off falling snow/freezing rain from adhering to an a/c after treatment. It does seem to be a brilliant idea, especially as to the enviormental risk reductions and the costs of the deicing fluid. It does seem to me that an a/c would have to be carefully inspected and some traditional deicing may be done to make sure all critical surfaces are throughly and properly treated and the a/c safe.
 
akelley728
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RE: Infrared Deicing

Mon Oct 31, 2005 11:19 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 9):
Any Pictures available on the De-icing in question in progress.

http://www.radiantenergycorp.com/images/index_03.jpg
 
LongbowPilot
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RE: Infrared Deicing

Wed Nov 02, 2005 2:33 pm

Quoting Yhz78 (Reply 17):
I've heard that even with the IR hangar deicing you still need a quick wash of type 1 once you get out just to make sure no loose snow or ice are caught up in the flaps and such. Anybody know for sure wether this is the case?

The quick splash isn't so much for the removal, but that is where ANTI-Icing comes into play. Once it is removed you have to have a method to keep it off, especially if you are NOT taking off right of way. You can use TYPE 1 which is a generic De-Icing flued with Anti-Ice ability, but if it is snowing really bad, than you need TYPE 4 which is a green slimy substance. You apply it after using TYPE 1 to de-ice, because TYPE 4 is anti-ice only.
 
siromega
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RE: Infrared Deicing

Wed Nov 02, 2005 2:57 pm

Do a/c go through this right before takeoff (with pax inside?) or is it towed into the quasi-hangar and then taken to the gate?
 
wjcandee
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RE: Infrared Deicing

Wed Nov 02, 2005 3:15 pm

The manufacturer indicates that it has taken out some additional loans as of October 15, in order to complete construction at JFK and Oslo. They claim that they are pouring foundation at JFK and will then begin building the building. They claim to be planning completion for winter season. Better hurry up! Perhaps the one big enough for a 747-300 posed some greater problems than they had anticipated...
 
777wt
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RE: Infrared Deicing

Wed Nov 02, 2005 3:44 pm

Quoting SirOmega (Reply 21):
Do a/c go through this right before takeoff (with pax inside?) or is it towed into the quasi-hangar and then taken to the gate?

It is done with pax inside after departure from the gate, because there's a holdover time limit once it completes deicing and in line for takeoff.
 
SLUAviator
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RE: Infrared Deicing

Wed Nov 02, 2005 3:55 pm

Quoting LongbowPilot (Reply 20):
TYPE 1 which is a generic De-Icing flued with Anti-Ice ability

TYPE 1 is strictly for deicing. There is no anti-ice quality to it mainly because it is diluted with water before it even goes into the trucks.


How are the planes sprayed with TYPE 4 when they are done? Do they have spray nozzles that cover the plane as it moves out of the building?
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FlyHoss
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RE: Infrared Deicing

Wed Nov 02, 2005 4:13 pm

Quoting SLUAviator (Reply 24):
How are the planes sprayed with TYPE 4 when they are done? Do they have spray nozzles that cover the plane as it moves out of the building?

After leaving the IR hangar, the aircraft are ANTI-iced, if necessary, using conventional trucks with booms.
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HAWK21M
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RE: Infrared Deicing

Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:39 pm

http://www.radiantenergycorp.com/images/index_03.jpg

Looks great.Too bad the Climate out here won't require them.  Smile
regds
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GBan
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RE: Infrared Deicing

Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:41 pm

Quoting FaroeFlyer (Thread starter):
Aircraft deiced by this method taxi through a specially built hangar in which snow and ice are removed by heat waves. Infrared deicing reduces runoff of the chemical glycol by around 70%.

Deicing? Never heard of that. But I always wondered why they use such inefficient methods of filling fuel in many airports.
 
LongbowPilot
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RE: Infrared Deicing

Wed Nov 02, 2005 6:37 pm

Quoting SLUAviator (Reply 24):
TYPE 1 is strictly for deicing. There is no anti-ice quality to it mainly because it is diluted with water before it even goes into the trucks.

Ok, I will say you are highly incorrect sir. TYPE 1 does have Anti-Ice capability, because I have been through 5 seasons of de-icing.

Holdover times are based on ambient tempature, amount of precip, and wind chill factor.

So Type 1 is used to de-ice but there is a small window for anti-ice.

Type 4 is directly applied without dilution and is not heated. It is like green syrup. It is applied via a hose and usually green. This stuff is HORRIBLY expensive, something like 20 bucks a gallon. So they only use it, when there is insufficient holdover time for TYPE 1.

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