ual777
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CO And UA...another Merger Thread

Tue Nov 01, 2005 3:18 am

After seeing UA's financial results for the 3rd quarter ($68 million dollar profit excluding non-cash reorganization costs). Do you think that the chances are greater of a CO/UA merger?

Further, what aspects of both companies would you like to see carried over?
It is always darkest before the sun comes up.
 
jmc1975
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RE: CO And UA...another Merger Thread

Tue Nov 01, 2005 3:21 am

That would be a spotters dream.....an airline that operates: 733,735,73G,738,739,319,320,752,753,762,763,764,777,744

No simplicity there, but hey, the routes are complementary.
.......
 
HunUtazo
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RE: CO And UA...another Merger Thread

Tue Nov 01, 2005 3:31 am

.........same folks.
dude
 
luisca
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RE: CO And UA...another Merger Thread

Tue Nov 01, 2005 3:39 am

I think this would be absurd.

We will see pigs fly before this happens
(Oh wait they already do: A380)

Seriusly, UA and CO's fleet is totatally incompatible, UA has high operating cost and CO is in good financiall shape, IMO CO doesnt need UA, they can expand on their own. I could see CO adquiring NW's assets after its liquidation (which seems more likely each day) CO is the most likely candidate to become a member of the Top 3, replacing DL or UA. They will be in the Battle with AA in a few years for the N 1 spot.
If it ain't Boeing (or Embraer ;-)) I ain't Going!
 
BigGSFO
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RE: CO And UA...another Merger Thread

Tue Nov 01, 2005 3:54 am

Nothing seems to excited the A.net crowd more than a good merger thread.

IMO neither UA or CO need to be acquired, especially by one or the other. This doesn't make business or fiscal sense. Two different companies, two different cost structures, two different managements, etc. The route structures, although could be complimentary, is not enough to warrant a merger.
 
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airzim
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RE: CO And UA...another Merger Thread

Tue Nov 01, 2005 4:01 am

There is only one way this is going to happen, if NW and DL merge. CO will be put in a position where it has no choice.

Put all the other factors about fleet and seniority issues aside, CO will have to merge with UA if anyone else teams up.

Given time, its looking more likely that this is going to happen eventually.
 
B742
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RE: CO And UA...another Merger Thread

Tue Nov 01, 2005 4:10 am

I would love to see a CO and UA merger, but I'll beleive it only when I see it!

I would like to see all of the A319/A320's go into the TED brand, leaving CO/UA with the Boeings:
B747-400 - PW
B777-200ER - PW and GE
B777-200 - PW
B767-400ER - GE
B767-300ER - PW
B767-300 - PW
B767-200ER - GE
B757-300 - RR
B757-200 - PW and RR
B737-900 - CFM
B737-800 - CFM
B737-700 - CFM
B737-500 - CFM
B737-300 - CFM

You would then have hubs at SFO, LAX, EWR, IAD, ORD, CLE and IAH!

What would CO do with ExpressJet, and what about UA and it's express carriers?

Rob!  wave 
 
jmc1975
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RE: CO And UA...another Merger Thread

Tue Nov 01, 2005 4:16 am

Quoting B742 (Reply 6):
You would then have hubs at SFO, LAX, EWR, IAD, ORD, CLE and IAH!

Don't forget DEN!
.......
 
TWA902fly
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RE: CO And UA...another Merger Thread

Tue Nov 01, 2005 4:22 am

I think the best - if any - merger option for CO would be to merge with AS. Give it a west coast presence and expansion hubs for flights to Asia (SEA and ANC)

'902
life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
 
dutchjet
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RE: CO And UA...another Merger Thread

Tue Nov 01, 2005 4:31 am

Its not gonna happen.......do note that UA acutally made money in the quarter, a good sign, the huge loss was due to non-cash items resulting for the termination of leases and such. UA will try to fly out of bankruptcy and hopefully will succeed on its own.
 
PavlovsDog
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RE: CO And UA...another Merger Thread

Tue Nov 01, 2005 5:21 am

I don't see what the whole fuss about fleet commonality is about about with such a theoretically large airline. A combined CO/UA would have one of the largest fleets of both 737's and 320-series. Certainly it would be nice if they had the exact same fleets but at this scale it is hardly a deciding factor.

It makes great business sense though. As an outsider I'd like to see it happen.
 
drerx7
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RE: CO And UA...another Merger Thread

Tue Nov 01, 2005 5:26 am

This won't happen. The resulting operating cost would be so great the combined carrier would implode.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
SPREE34
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RE: CO And UA...another Merger Thread

Tue Nov 01, 2005 6:21 am

Mergermania may not happen if all any of them have to do is wait to buy left overs from liquidation. It woulld be much cheaper.
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
 
ual777
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RE: CO And UA...another Merger Thread

Tue Nov 01, 2005 7:16 am

Quoting Luisca (Reply 3):
UA has high operating cost and CO is in good financiall shape, IMO CO doesnt need UA, they can expand on their own. I could see CO adquiring NW's assets after its liquidation (which seems more likely each day) CO is the most likely candidate to become a member of the Top 3, replacing DL or UA. They will be in the Battle with AA in a few years for the N 1 spot.

You are completely out of touch. CO battling with AA and replacing UA? NOT going to happen anytime soon.
It is always darkest before the sun comes up.
 
gigneil
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RE: CO And UA...another Merger Thread

Tue Nov 01, 2005 7:28 am

Quoting HunUtazo (Reply 2):
.........same folks.

No. They aren't. No matter how many times you say it.

N
 
COSPN
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RE: CO And UA...another Merger Thread

Tue Nov 01, 2005 7:29 am

CO is fine on its own 2 more 777's on the way 787 ect Expanding DEL EZE CGN BRS PEK...787 will forgo the need for a NRT HUB...NRT will be for Local Traffic Only...
 
letsgetwet
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RE: CO And UA...another Merger Thread

Tue Nov 01, 2005 7:31 am

Quoting UAL777 (Reply 13):
You are completely out of touch. CO battling with AA and replacing UA? NOT going to happen anytime soon.

"Bigger " has nothing to do with " Better"

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/051031/dam033.html?.v=32

Looks like CO is already the "Best"
 
squirrel83
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RE: CO And UA...another Merger Thread

Tue Nov 01, 2005 7:33 am

I would hate to see CO merg with UA.

For the eighth year in a row, Continental Airlines (NYSE: CAL - News) outranked all of its U.S. competition in international Business Class service, according to results of a survey of Conde Nast Traveler readers published in the magazine's October 2005 edition.


That should explain it right there!
A346, 7E7, 747, 777, Sonic Cruiser
 
PavlovsDog
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RE: CO And UA...another Merger Thread

Tue Nov 01, 2005 5:55 pm

Quoting Squirrel83 (Reply 17):
would hate to see CO merg with UA.

For the eighth year in a row, Continental Airlines (NYSE: CAL - News) outranked all of its U.S. competition in international Business Class service, according to results of a survey of Conde Nast Traveler readers published in the magazine's October 2005 edition.

That should explain it right there!

While you see United's perceived poor service as a burden, I see it as an opportunity.

Look at the markets where United is strong: Chicago, San Francisco, Los Angeles and Washington are, along with New York, the biggest and most lucrative markets for business travel in the US. If Continental could sucessfully establish their product and business culture they could win some very profitable customers and make a ton of money.

United will be priced very cheap when they emerge from bankrupcy. Good business is buying low. In my opinion if Continental can get the financing (Boeing and GE come to mind), they would be crazy to pass up an opportunity to buy UA.
 
SFORunner
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RE: CO And UA...another Merger Thread

Tue Nov 01, 2005 6:24 pm

Quoting PavlovsDog (Reply 18):
United will be priced very cheap when they emerge from bankrupcy

Yes, and also saddled with a massive amount of debt. Buy the company = buy the debt and liabilities associated with it....
 
Co757
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RE: CO And UA...another Merger Thread

Tue Nov 01, 2005 6:26 pm

Quoting PavlovsDog (Reply 10):
I don't see what the whole fuss about fleet commonality is about about with such a theoretically large airline. A combined CO/UA would have one of the largest fleets of both 737's and 320-series.

If "IF" it happens Continental will be running the show, and all Airbus Aircraft will be parked. Continental has no Interest in Airbus, and parking those aircraft will not have a large impact on Operations in a merger. Continental would bring Retired 737-300/500 aircraft from the Dessert before they fly Airbuses.

Quoting Luisca (Reply 3):
I could see CO adquiring NW's assets after its liquidation

Don't be fooled. Northwest isnt going away. They will be the straw that broke the camels back. Yes they are playing hardball right now with employees, But they were always the one to wear the pants. And I think in the long run they will have made there point, In Example they never matched other airlines sales(and everyone rescended) The mechanics went on Strike...And You know where they are. Don't bet on them Going away, They have a plan.
 
Co757
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RE: CO And UA...another Merger Thread

Tue Nov 01, 2005 7:10 pm

Quoting Luisca (Reply 3):
CO is the most likely candidate to become a member of the Top 3, replacing DL or UA. They will be in the Battle with AA in a few years for the N 1 spot.

Continental Won't have to Battle, they have been on the Current of the river, Passing UA, DL, NW, And Don't Need to Aquire anyone to Survive.
 
uadc8contrail
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RE: CO And UA...another Merger Thread

Tue Nov 01, 2005 7:11 pm

Quoting COSPN (Reply 15):
CO is fine on its own

So why has gordon said numerous times that a ual and co merger would make a great airline????

Quoting Squirrel83 (Reply 17):
I would hate to see CO merge with UA.

you and all the other ual/co employees would hate it as well...so we at least agree on something

Quoting SFORunner (Reply 19):
Yes, and also saddled with a massive amount of debt. Buy the company = buy the debt and liabilities associated with it....

was that what texas intl was thinking back when frank was picking up the pieces of a broken airline?????

Quoting Co757 (Reply 20):
If "IF" it happens Continental will be running the show, and all Airbus Aircraft will be parked.

tell that to all the america west folks that thought they were going to be in the drivers seat on everything involved with the merger.......

Quoting Co757 (Reply 20):
Don't be fooled. Northwest isnt going away. They will be the straw that broke the camels back. Yes they are playing hardball right now with employees, But they were always the one to wear the pants. And I think in the long run they will have made there point, In Example they never matched other airlines sales(and everyone rescended)

ARE you for real....they rescinded every fare sale that the other instituted you idiot INCLUDING SOME CO FARE RAISES AS WELL
The mechanics went on Strike...And You know where they are. Don't bet on them Going away, They have a plan.[/quote]

yea doug has a plan.....wipe all the collective bargaining agreements out that will affect you eventually as if nwa can pay a non skilled worker like you for 8.00/hr then you can be sure that co will follow.......
bus driver.......move that bus:)
 
b777a340fan
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RE: CO And UA...another Merger Thread

Wed Nov 02, 2005 12:07 am

IMHO, I would agree with most folks on this thread: a CO/UAL merger would never happen. There are many reasons for this, but the biggest to comes to mind is that no court on the land would agree such merger. With a CO/UAL merger, that would literally constitute a monopoly on an already struggling market. Furthermore, Continental and United Airlines belong to two different alliances, so I would foresee problems in that area as well. Happy flying!  airplane 
 
PavlovsDog
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Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2005 3:28 am

RE: CO And UA...another Merger Thread

Wed Nov 02, 2005 12:08 am

Quoting Co757 (Reply 20):
If "IF" it happens Continental will be running the show, and all Airbus Aircraft will be parked. Continental has no Interest in Airbus, and parking those aircraft will not have a large impact on Operations in a merger. Continental would bring Retired 737-300/500 aircraft from the Dessert before they fly Airbuses.

What are you suggesting Continental would do with all the Airbuses? We all know that Continental is very pro-Boeing but I can't see any way for CO/UA to quickly phase out the Airbus aircraft that makes any business sense. How many parked 737's do you think UA/CO have? They would be doing their shareholders a serious disservice if they were make an irrational fleet planning decision out of some anti-Airbus zeal.

Quoting SFORunner (Reply 19):
Yes, and also saddled with a massive amount of debt. Buy the company = buy the debt and liabilities associated with it....

Of course. United also still has significant assets too. They have $2.7 billion in cash and a frequent-flyer program with a negative value on their books which is worth billions to Continental.

The fact that United has become a very lean operation and even made an operating profit of $165 million last quarter makes UA very attractive if the price is right.
 
wdleiser
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RE: CO And UA...another Merger Thread

Wed Nov 02, 2005 12:39 am

Quoting Luisca (Reply 3):
We will see pigs fly before this happens
(Oh wait they already do: A380)

I thought it was a Whale  Wink

Quoting PavlovsDog (Reply 10):
I don't see what the whole fuss about fleet commonality is about about with such a theoretically large airline. A combined CO/UA would have one of the largest fleets of both 737's and 320-series. Certainly it would be nice if they had the exact same fleets but at this scale it is hardly a deciding factor.

It makes great business sense though. As an outsider I'd like to see it happen.

... I sort of see it your way.... as... UAL pilots would fly the Airbus' and CO piliots fly the Boeing short hauls.

Quoting Co757 (Reply 20):
If "IF" it happens Continental will be running the show, and all Airbus Aircraft will be parked. Continental has no Interest in Airbus, and parking those aircraft will not have a large impact on Operations in a merger. Continental would bring Retired 737-300/500 aircraft from the Dessert before they fly Airbuses.

Why would they fly less economical aircraft? Once again... as I said above...it would be smart to have 2 different fleets as the Pay scale could stay the same... pretty much. Hopefully it wouldnt be a TWA/AA merger fiasco.


Also IMO if they WERE to merge ... the name United would stay.
 
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STT757
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RE: CO And UA...another Merger Thread

Wed Nov 02, 2005 12:48 am

Quoting Uadc8contrail (Reply 22):
tell that to all the america west folks that thought they were going to be in the drivers seat on everything involved with the merger.......

The new headquarters is in Arizona, that's who's in charge not the Virginia folks.

If CO/UAL merge the headquarters would be Houston, with CO folks running the show.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
drerx7
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RE: CO And UA...another Merger Thread

Wed Nov 02, 2005 1:00 am

Gordon was commenting on the fact that the route networks complement each other--that was it. If this ludacris merger occurred you'd see the headquarters in Houston--the Continental name would likely survive as it has better quality association, the Airbusses would be parked and the carrier would eliminate money losing routes. In the end--the only thing Continental would probably want from UA is the transpac presence, Heathrow rights, and Denver hub.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
PavlovsDog
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RE: CO And UA...another Merger Thread

Wed Nov 02, 2005 3:01 am

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 27):
In the end--the only thing Continental would probably want from UA is the transpac presence, Heathrow rights, and Denver hub.

Why on earth would Continental demolish a now lean airline that made an operating profit of $165 million in a 3rd quarter with high fuel costs? When Independence folds the UA operation at Dulles should increase in profitability. Dulles also would give the larger Continental another high yielding east coast hub into which they can grow. Newark's planned capacity is a lot smaller than Dulles which could take over many transferring passengers over time. United is also a market leader in Chicago, San Francisco and Los Angeles where Continental is weak. The Denver operation is also highly effecient.

You don't just park 150 perfectly good planes in the desert. Certainly they could be slowly culled and more of United's 737-300's and 500's brought out of storage but retraining all those flightcrew over night would be a daunting and expensive task.

According to Airfleets, United also has 18 767-200's in storage. Those could certainly come in handy on some of those European routes where Continental's capacity is contrained.
 
Indy
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RE: CO And UA...another Merger Thread

Wed Nov 02, 2005 4:07 am

Will UA live long enough though to merge with anyone? Just saw a story on our local news website about the UA results for 3rd quarter. I'm sure it has been brought up in another topic. I guess someone bailed out US so its possible UA gets bailed out too. Even if UA gets bailed out will the government allow two huge airlines to merge?

I know they claim they had a profit before bankruptcy related expenses. I guess its one of those things (like US living) that I'll believe it when I see it.

[Edited 2005-11-01 20:10:35]
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
Tornado82
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RE: CO And UA...another Merger Thread

Wed Nov 02, 2005 4:39 am

There's a thread about UA quarterly results, Indy. In it, you'll see that billion+ loss is on paper only, not effecting cash on hand. It has to do with rejected leases, and most of it will be hit with our good friend the White-Out during the ch 11 emergence, and not actually taking a chunk of change out of the UA coffers.

Think about the possibilities though, UA and CO. You could fly routings that take you through both the EWR and ORD hubs.... and only get delayed for about 11 hours, lol.  Yeah sure

I'd love to see ExpressJet running ERJ-145's ABE-IAD though, would sure beat the Continental Express Bus running ABE-EWR, and the ABE-IAD Saabs (and CRJ's from AWAC recently). Actually seeing how my 2 highest mileage accounts are CO and UA respectively... I think this would be a match made in my own personal heaven. I'd be way elite.
 
tsaord
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RE: CO And UA...another Merger Thread

Wed Nov 02, 2005 10:28 am

speak of the devil. i was just in the gym last night at the hilton outside terminal 2. there was this guy who worked for united, i think he was a rap agent or something dealing with lugagge. he told someone else that was there that united was considering another pay cut with them. ALSO, he mentioned there were talks of united merging with continental!

just something i heard
there are icons, then there are legends, then there is rick flair
 
gigneil
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RE: CO And UA...another Merger Thread

Wed Nov 02, 2005 11:36 am

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 27):
the Airbusses would be parked and the carrier would eliminate money losing routes.

That's right, they'd park the second largest fleet of A320s in the world...

...and cancel over half their schedule in the process.

Brilliant.

N
 
CTHEWORLD
Posts: 463
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 5:27 am

RE: CO And UA...another Merger Thread

Wed Nov 02, 2005 12:05 pm

Quoting Luisca (Reply 3):
Seriusly, UA and CO's fleet is totatally incompatible, UA has high operating cost and CO is in good financiall shape,

What the he!! are you smoking??? CO is barely squeeking by, yes they are making money, but not hand over fist AND they have relatively few owned assets. UA has a very competitive cost structure for majors, great operational performance, and one of the most enviable route structures in the world...put down the crack pipe, man!
 
letsgetwet
Posts: 490
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2005 12:08 pm

RE: CO And UA...another Merger Thread

Wed Nov 02, 2005 12:57 pm

Quoting CTHEWORLD (Reply 33):
UA has a very competitive cost structure for majors, great operational performance, and one of the most enviable route structures in the world...put down the crack pipe, man!

Then why have they been operating in bankruptcy for the last three years, done away with pensions, cutting wages, and having their aircraft reposest?
 
jetdeltamsy
Posts: 2688
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2000 11:51 am

RE: CO And UA...another Merger Thread

Wed Nov 02, 2005 1:14 pm

Quoting Luisca (Reply 3):
I think this would be absurd.

We will see pigs fly before this happens

I agree that it's very unlikely. But personally, I would love to see it. UAL management has bashed Continental for years. Talk about a reversal of fortune!

Give 'em hell Continental!
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
JoFMO
Posts: 1840
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 1:55 am

RE: CO And UA...another Merger Thread

Wed Nov 02, 2005 1:28 pm

Quoting Letsgetwet (Reply 34):
Then why have they been operating in bankruptcy for the last three years, done away with pensions, cutting wages, and having their aircraft reposest?

Don't take about the past, it's history. The actual situation and the future is what counts.
 
ual777
Posts: 1491
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RE: CO And UA...another Merger Thread

Wed Nov 02, 2005 2:48 pm

Quoting Airzim (Reply 5):



Quoting Co757 (Reply 20):
If "IF" it happens Continental will be running the show, and all Airbus Aircraft will be parked. Continental has no Interest in Airbus, and parking those aircraft will not have a large impact on Operations in a merger. Continental would bring Retired 737-300/500 aircraft from the Dessert before they fly Airbuses.



Quoting Co757 (Reply 21):
Continental Won't have to Battle, they have been on the Current of the river, Passing UA, DL, NW, And Don't Need to Aquire anyone to Survive.

Can you make 1...just 1 statement that is not some cheerleading for the company you work for?

UA posted a 3rd quarter $165 million dollar NET profit excluding NON-CASH BANKRUPTCY RELATED charges.

I asked for a real discussion and we get CO cheerleading. Fantastic.

And by the way, I have been on both UA and CO in the past 6 months, and I don't care what that quoted magazine says, UAs First Suite beats CO's BusinessFirst like an insurgent at Abu Garib. I am comparing the two because they are both the respective companies' premium product.

In addition CO's economy seats suck compared to UAs or AAs.
It is always darkest before the sun comes up.
 
letsgetwet
Posts: 490
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2005 12:08 pm

RE: CO And UA...another Merger Thread

Wed Nov 02, 2005 7:41 pm

Quoting UAL777 (Reply 37):
Can you make 1...just 1 statement that is not some cheerleading for the company you work for?

Can you?

Quoting UAL777 (Reply 37):
I don't care what that quoted magazine says, UAs First Suite beats CO's BusinessFirst like an insurgent at Abu Garib. I am comparing the two because they are both the respective companies' premium product.

It doesn't matter what YOU think, it's the other 99.9% that count. There is no way that UA's service even comes close
 
UAcosCS
Posts: 380
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RE: CO And UA...another Merger Thread

Thu Nov 03, 2005 12:52 am

Quoting UAL777 (Thread starter):
After seeing UA's financial results for the 3rd quarter ($68 million dollar profit excluding non-cash reorganization costs). Do you think that the chances are greater of a CO/UA merger?

I thought it was 168 million. Maybe i read it wrong.
We had dreams and songs to sing, It's so lonely round the fields of Athenry.
 
ual777
Posts: 1491
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 6:18 am

RE: CO And UA...another Merger Thread

Thu Nov 03, 2005 1:18 am

Quoting Letsgetwet (Reply 38):
Can you?

Yes I can, and I do.

Quoting Letsgetwet (Reply 38):
t doesn't matter what YOU think, it's the other 99.9% that count. There is no way that UA's service even comes close

Why? that was 1 travel magazine of how many? Everytime UA gets some award all the UA haters come on here and denounce it saying its because they advertise in this magazine.
UA is #1 on-time of all the major network carriers over the past 12 months and #2 with lost baggage.

What about that?
It is always darkest before the sun comes up.
 
ARGinLON
Posts: 550
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2005 6:26 pm

RE: CO And UA...another Merger Thread

Thu Nov 03, 2005 1:30 am

Quoting UAL777 (Reply 37):
And by the way, I have been on both UA and CO in the past 6 months, and I don't care what that quoted magazine says, UAs First Suite beats CO's BusinessFirst like an insurgent at Abu Garib. I am comparing the two because they are both the respective companies' premium product

You should compare apples with apples. CO's BussinessFirst should be compared with UA's business class product and not with First class.

Although they are bot companies premium products, they shouldn't be compared.
 
luisca
Posts: 1530
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2001 11:37 am

RE: CO And UA...another Merger Thread

Thu Nov 03, 2005 1:32 am

Quoting CTHEWORLD (Reply 33):
What the he!! are you smoking??? CO is barely squeeking by, yes they are making money, but not hand over fist AND they have relatively few owned assets. UA has a very competitive cost structure for majors, great operational performance, and one of the most enviable route structures in the world...put down the crack pipe, man!

CO is not in bankruptcy, They are expanding to Latin America, They OWN the second largest airline in Central America which themselves own The second largest Colombian Airline. They also own Continental Micronesia, They will expand their Asian route network, And I am positive than once NW folds, they will be ready to jump to buy the Asian routes and Narita slots.

UA has been in bankruptcy for 3 years, still has MOUNTAINS of debt. NW is in its death bed, AA is barely out of BK and DL is in Limbo. So CO is in my opinion the healthiest of all majors.

Maybe you are the one living in a pipe dream.
If it ain't Boeing (or Embraer ;-)) I ain't Going!
 
UAcosCS
Posts: 380
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 6:18 am

RE: CO And UA...another Merger Thread

Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:04 am

Quoting ARGinLON (Reply 41):
You should compare apples with apples. CO's BussinessFirst should be compared with UA's business class product and not with First class.

Although they are both companies premium products, they shouldn't be compared.

It isn't UAL fault CO doesn't offer the same product. You should compare the best or each company which is what was compared. UAL offers a better product in the First class category.

Quoting Luisca (Reply 42):
UA has been in bankruptcy for 3 years, still has MOUNTAINS of debt. NW is in its death bed, AA is barely out of BK and DL is in Limbo. So CO is in my opinion the healthiest of all majors.

Yah, right! While in BK they have huge paper losses, early next year we'll see who is healthier, AA teetering on BK themselves? Didn't know that.
We had dreams and songs to sing, It's so lonely round the fields of Athenry.
 
ARGinLON
Posts: 550
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RE: CO And UA...another Merger Thread

Thu Nov 03, 2005 3:28 am

Quoting UAcosCS (Reply 43):
It isn't UAL fault CO doesn't offer the same product. You should compare the best or each company which is what was compared. UAL offers a better product in the First class category

Although they are they are their top product you still cannot compare it. Fares are completly different.

What you should do is to take a Business class fare between two points where UA and CO compete and based on the product you get make the comparison.

If you want to compare UA First class product do it with BA/AA/QF. etc.
 
UAcosCS
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RE: CO And UA...another Merger Thread

Thu Nov 03, 2005 5:15 am

Quoting Co757 (Reply 20):
If "IF" it happens Continental will be running the show, and all Airbus Aircraft will be parked. Continental has no Interest in Airbus, and parking those aircraft will not have a large impact on Operations in a merger. Continental would bring Retired 737-300/500 aircraft from the Dessert before they fly Airbuses.

This is the second dumbest comment on this site. Man, there are some dumb CO folks on this site.


Of course. United also still has significant assets too. They have $2.7 billion in cash and a frequent-flyer program with a negative value on their books which is worth billions to Continental.fINALLY SOMEONE WITH A BRAIN.

The fact that United has become a very lean operation and even made an operating profit of $165 million last quarter makes UA very attractive if the price is right.[/quote]Bingo!

Quoting Wdleiser (Reply 25):
Also IMO if they WERE to merge ... The name United would stay.

In one of your wet dreams

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 27):
If this ludacris merger occurred you'd see the headquarters in Houston--the Continental name would likely survive as it has better quality association,

Now this is the most ignorant thing said on this thread.

Quoting Indy (Reply 29):
Will UA live long enough though to merge with anyone? Just saw a story on our local news website about the UA results for 3rd quarter. I'm sure it has been brought up in another topic. I guess someone bailed out US so its possible UA gets bailed out too. Even if UA gets bailed out will the government allow two huge airlines to merge?

I know they claim they had a profit before bankruptcy related expenses. I guess its one of those things (like US living) that I'll believe it when I see it.

Your name alone shows your bitterness towards the company. Dont blame UAL INDY will be a thing of the past soon.

Quoting CTHEWORLD (Reply 33):
What the he!! are you smoking??? CO is barely squeeking by, yes they are making money, but not hand over fist AND they have relatively few owned assets. UA has a very competitive cost structure for majors, great operational performance, and one of the most enviable route structures in the world...put down the crack pipe, man!

Thank you, another person who doent have his head lodged in his rear. To many CO folks are lyal, but loyaly shouldnt cloud your vision of te truth.

Quoting Letsgetwet (Reply 34):
Then why have they been operating in bankruptcy for the last three years, done away with pensions, cutting wages, and having their aircraft reposest?

And most all airlines are going to have to do the same or face an uneven playing field.
We had dreams and songs to sing, It's so lonely round the fields of Athenry.
 
SLUAviator
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RE: CO And UA...another Merger Thread

Thu Nov 03, 2005 5:51 am

There are three things that need to go before UA and CO could merge:

1) United's management--without a doubt the worst management in the history of the airlines.

2) United's unions MUST go. They are bitter and so impressed with the fact that they are unions that they do not do the fundamental thing a union does and protect their employees. In their constant demands for more, they end up losing more getting more bitter.

3) United's culture is the most important thing to go-- having spent 2 years in the heart of the beast, it is an ugly place to work. Nobody works together... people work harder to go out of their way to not help someone then they would work if they did help someone. None of the employees trust management, and I am sure the feeling is mutual. You can't take a culture like this and try to merge it with another culture and have the resulting company survive!
What do I know? I just fly 'em.......
 
jacobin777
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RE: CO And UA...another Merger Thread

Thu Nov 03, 2005 6:03 am

Quoting SLUAviator (Reply 46):
1) United's management--without a doubt the worst management in the history of the airlines.

disagree...UA's management, especially Tilton have done an extraordinary job in righting the ship..given Tilton's backround, he EASILY could have gotten a better, more posh, and more financially rewarding job..he took the challenge and is so far doing quite well..too bad I can't put him on my RLU...

Quoting SLUAviator (Reply 46):
2) United's unions MUST go

 thumbsup 

Quoting SLUAviator (Reply 46):
3) United's culture is the most important thing to go-- having spent 2 years in the heart of the beast, it is an ugly place to work. Nobody works together... people work harder to go out of their way to not help someone then they would work if they did help someone.

couldn't agree with you more..my dad just flew ORD-FRA-ORD in business class.(he got back yesterday) ,and he says he's fed up with UA's terrible lack of service...not to mention their lack of hospitality..

a couple of weeks ago, he flew ORD-DCA-ORD...once again, same thing..I think he's fed up with giving UA his money

yesterday, I was sitting next to a lady (flew from ORD-SFO) who swears she will never fly UA again, and she flies business class every couple of weeks...why? because their hospitality/service stinks..

I flew SFO-ORD-SFO on UA a last year..their service was fine..but I've also flown ORD-LHR-ORD and ORD-CDG-ORD..and it was very mixed results......UA isn't getting my business  no  and I'm an AA Platinum Member so I spend a lot of money flying....and the ironic thing is that SFO/ORD are my two majour hubs I fly out of which is perfect for UA to have me as a customer....
"Up the Irons!"
 
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mariner
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RE: CO And UA...another Merger Thread

Thu Nov 03, 2005 6:20 am

Quoting SLUAviator (Reply 46):
1) United's management--without a doubt the worst management in the history of the airlines.

Whatever you think of the way Mr. Tilton has run the airline, he has done an outstanding job of running the company.

Many people believe he was written the (present day) book for companies in Chapter 11.

I doubt he'll stay - once United emerges, he might hang around for a few moths, but he can now name his own price for taking on any company that is in deep doo-doo. As United was.

Quoting SLUAviator (Reply 46):
2) United's unions MUST go.

Why? They have been the most quiescent of unions, taking everything that management has dished out.

There have been a few whimpers of protests, and a few barks from the f/a's union, but, in the end, every cut was put in place, inlcuding the pensions and the awful reductions in medical benefits for retirees.

Quoting SLUAviator (Reply 46):
3) United's culture is the most important thing to go-- having spent 2 years in the heart of the beast, it is an ugly place to work.

Oh. The impression I get from the outside is that - these days - the United people are rather pleased that they see light at the end of the tunnel.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 47):
and I'm an AA Platinum Member so I spend a lot of money flying

Speaking of dreadful service, it was a couple of American Airlines flights, first class, BOS/MIA/BOS, that finally turned me off the legacies and drove me into the happier arms of the LCC's.

cheers

mariner
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RE: CO And UA...another Merger Thread

Thu Nov 03, 2005 6:38 am

Quoting SLUAviator (Reply 46):
1) United's management--without a doubt the worst management in the history of the airlines.

Really? Because last time I checked, UA's "worst management in the history of the airlines" was able to keep UA alive the past 3 years while fixing the mess left behind and bringing UA back to profitability. Man, I guess they really have no idea what they are doing, eh?

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