kjet12
Posts: 894
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2001 7:33 am

American Eagle 4184 - 11 Years Ago

Tue Nov 01, 2005 6:37 am

Just want to make note that today marks the 11th anniversary of American Eagle 4184 which went down near Roselawn, Indiana. The ATR-72 (N401AM) flew into known icing conditions while in a holding pattern enroute to ORD. All 68 passengers and crew were lost in the accident. My thoughts and prayers go out to the victims and their family.

http://www.ntsb.gov/NTSB/brief.asp?ev_id=20001206X02420&key=1

Kris
AA - Doing what we do best.
 
jmc1975
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Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2000 10:57 am

RE: American Eagle 4184 - 11 Years Ago

Tue Nov 01, 2005 7:01 am

Quoting Kjet12 (Thread starter):
My thoughts and prayers go out to the victims

Why to the victims? They've been gone 11 years. It just happens. By the way, kinda morbid to think about it being Halloween and all.....don't you think?
.......
 
skyyblue
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Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2005 8:37 am

RE: American Eagle 4184 - 11 Years Ago

Tue Nov 01, 2005 7:09 am

May God rest their souls. If I remember correctly one of the flight attendants was a young lady who was on her IOE flight. When I worked ATR flights this accident always crossed my mind. God Bless Them!
 
EMBQA
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RE: American Eagle 4184 - 11 Years Ago

Tue Nov 01, 2005 7:09 am

Yes it was. It was a Monday night and they had 'Throw Back' night at Bears Stadium on Monday Night Football. All the teams were wearin the old style jerseys. It was down right nasty there. Raining and cold. The news broke in just at half time to announce the news of the crash.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
flymli
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Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 10:50 pm

RE: American Eagle 4184 - 11 Years Ago

Tue Nov 01, 2005 7:14 am

I will never forget that night. One of the worst flying nights I had ever been on in my life. I was on a Great Lakes Beech 1900 from Chicago Meigs to Springfield, Illinois and we had moderate to severe turbulance the entire trip. When we landing in SPI, I got home, turned the tv on and there was the news of the American Eagle ATR-72. I'm glad I got home safe.
 
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csturdiv
Posts: 1593
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2005 10:33 am

RE: American Eagle 4184 - 11 Years Ago

Tue Nov 01, 2005 7:29 am

Quoting Kjet12 (Thread starter):
Just want to make note that today marks the 11th anniversary of American Eagle 4184 which went down near Roselawn, Indiana. The ATR-72 (N401AM) flew into known icing conditions while in a holding pattern enroute to ORD. All 68 passengers and crew were lost in the accident. My thoughts and prayers go out to the victims and their family.

Wasn't this accident one of the reasons behind AA getting rid of the ATR in these routes where icing is a problem? And if icing is a problem with the ATR, why does First Air operate the ATR42 in an area that is about 50 times (slight exaggeration) worse than the Midwest winters?

Craig
An American expat from the ORD area living and working in SYD
 
lucianflyboy
Posts: 146
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2005 11:30 pm

RE: American Eagle 4184 - 11 Years Ago

Tue Nov 01, 2005 7:48 am

Sad day indeed. I was on initial training at the then 'Learning Center'. All the f/a's that were in training were all bummed out that night.

God rest their souls.
 
Cubsrule
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Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: American Eagle 4184 - 11 Years Ago

Tue Nov 01, 2005 1:48 pm

Quoting Csturdiv (Reply 5):
Wasn't this accident one of the reasons behind AA getting rid of the ATR in these routes where icing is a problem?

Yes, and UA's competitive response is the reason we no longer see props at ORD (there's still some propaganda dating to 1998 or so about all jet service sitting around MQ's Concourse G at ORD).
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
Boeing Nut
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RE: American Eagle 4184 - 11 Years Ago

Wed Nov 02, 2005 12:27 am

Quoting Csturdiv (Reply 5):
Wasn't this accident one of the reasons behind AA getting rid of the ATR in these routes where icing is a problem?

AA still uses them at STL regularly. We get more ice than snow lately.
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
AAgent
Posts: 540
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2001 11:41 pm

RE: American Eagle 4184 - 11 Years Ago

Wed Nov 02, 2005 12:41 am

Quoting Boeing Nut (Reply 8):
AA still uses them at STL regularly. We get more ice than snow lately.

I don't believe there are any AA/AE ATR's operating into STL. I believe the ATR fleet is operated exclusively in the region from South Florida throughout the Caribbean. Anyone have a confirmation on this?

Best regards,
AAgent
War Eagle!
 
flymli
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 10:50 pm

RE: American Eagle 4184 - 11 Years Ago

Wed Nov 02, 2005 12:49 am

TransStates operating as American Connection no longer has the ATR fleet in STL. Federal Express took over those aircraft from them therefore no ATS's any longer for AA and STL.
 
PanAm747
Posts: 4713
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 4:46 am

RE: American Eagle 4184 - 11 Years Ago

Wed Nov 02, 2005 12:56 am

Also, don't forget that this is a rather morbid date in aviation history:

http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19791031-0

http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19991031-0

God rest all their souls.
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
 
navairjax
Posts: 478
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 2:54 pm

RE: American Eagle 4184 - 11 Years Ago

Wed Nov 02, 2005 12:59 am

I swear I saw at least one MQ ATR at STL on Saturday morning.
 
RDUDDJI
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Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 4:42 am

RE: American Eagle 4184 - 11 Years Ago

Wed Nov 02, 2005 1:17 am

Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 1):
By the way, kinda morbid to think about it being Halloween and all.....don't you think?

I agree. My best friend's Dad died in that crash and we were seniors in high school that year. His Dad decided to take an earlier flight home and well, you know the rest. My friend's brother was in college at the time and when the family was notified they were worried about finding him on Halloween night (with parties and all) but as luck would have it, he was at home with his girlfriend.
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
yegger
Posts: 58
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 4:37 am

RE: American Eagle 4184 - 11 Years Ago

Wed Nov 02, 2005 4:10 am

Quoting Csturdiv (Reply 5):
Wasn't this accident one of the reasons behind AA getting rid of the ATR in these routes where icing is a problem? And if icing is a problem with the ATR, why does First Air operate the ATR42 in an area that is about 50 times (slight exaggeration) worse than the Midwest winters?

Not exactly correct. Although First Air operates in parts of Northern Canada where extreme cold is normal in the winter (below -30C), the area is not particularly prone to icing. This is because the area is essentially a desert - it's a very cold and dry desert as compared to the typical hot and dry deserts. As a result there is relatively little precipitation throughout the year as compared to other areas such as coastal areas - the air is generally "dry." One of the main causes of icing is the presence of rain and/or "supercooled water droplets" when flying through air which is near the freezing point. These attach onto an airplane and then freeze into solid ice. The severe cold means that most moisture is frozen solid already (and even then there is very little of that in the air at such cold temperatures) and therefore won't adhere to an aircraft like moisture will when the temperature is near the freezing point.

I hope this helps??
 
EMBQA
Posts: 7795
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 3:52 am

RE: American Eagle 4184 - 11 Years Ago

Wed Nov 02, 2005 6:08 am

Quoting Csturdiv (Reply 5):
why does First Air operate the ATR42 in an area that is about 50 times (slight exaggeration) worse than the Midwest winters?

As said above, operations in Canada are not anywhere near as bad as the lower 48 in the winter. Due to their much colder climate it's rare that they get icing- freezing rain in Canada. It just snows...!! It was freezing rain that brought down AE 4184 that night when an ice ridge formed behind the de-ice boot and caused a disruption of the air flow over the aileron. With the auto pilot on, the AP continued to correct for this imbalace until it could not hold level flight anymore. The aileron disengaged, and the aircraft snap rolled and there was little the crew could do at that point.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
KELPkid
Posts: 5247
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:33 am

RE: American Eagle 4184 - 11 Years Ago

Wed Nov 02, 2005 6:18 am

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 15):
It was freezing rain that brought down AE 4184 that night when an ice ridge formed behind the de-ice boot and caused a disruption of the air flow over the aileron. With the auto pilot on, the AP continued to correct for this imbalace until it could not hold level flight anymore. The aileron disengaged, and the aircraft snap rolled and there was little the crew could do at that point.

IIRC the flap selection (10 degrees while they were in the hold) also contributed to the problem...ATR didn't factor flap usage at a non-approach airspeed into the ATR's known icing certification.
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