gokmengs
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DL's Most Profitable Intl Routes?

Wed Nov 02, 2005 3:25 am

Ok, so any DL insider can share his/her knowledge about the cash cow routes in DL international destinations? Now that they are expanding intl routes, it would be nice to know the routes that made good money for them. Thanks for the replies

[Edited 2005-11-01 19:49:47]
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MAH4546
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RE: DL's Most Profitable Intl Routes?

Wed Nov 02, 2005 3:28 am

Just because they are rapidly expanding does not mean they had a "killer summer". It just shows that they are reallocating their fleet to be used on more profitable route oppurtunities that have less compietitition.
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AirScoot
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RE: DL's Most Profitable Intl Routes?

Wed Nov 02, 2005 3:32 am

I'm curious if some of the routes like NCE and TXL are helping or hurting their profit margin internationally since they appear to be the only nonstop players from JFK in those markets.
 
gokmengs
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RE: DL's Most Profitable Intl Routes?

Wed Nov 02, 2005 3:52 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 1):
Just because they are rapidly expanding does not mean they had a "killer summer". It just shows that they are reallocating their fleet to be used on more profitable route oppurtunities that have less compietitition.

Agreed, noted, edited, however knowing that you probably know the most profitable routes, I wish you didn't end your post there.
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rwsea
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RE: DL's Most Profitable Intl Routes?

Wed Nov 02, 2005 4:10 am

I would guess ATL-NRT is one of the most profitable.

I would also assume FRA/CDG/LGW are pretty profitable too since they get the 777's. Given that DL only has 8 777's, they can only afford to put them on the most profitable routes.

As far as cities like NCE/VCE, I would assume that they are pretty profitable given the decision to increase service from ATL as well, although I wonder if there are alterior motives in starting those flights (e.g. testing the waters to see how they would do if eventually shifted to ATL exclusively, or possibly to increase service in an attempt to keep out CO).
 
Alitalia744
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RE: DL's Most Profitable Intl Routes?

Wed Nov 02, 2005 4:26 am

Milano Malpensa has been rumored to be DL's most profitable International Destination.
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DeltaMIA
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RE: DL's Most Profitable Intl Routes?

Wed Nov 02, 2005 4:41 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 1):
Just because they are rapidly expanding does not mean they had a "killer summer".

DL's Transatlantic operating profit increased 8% this past summer.

Quoting Gokmengs (Thread starter):
Ok, so any DL insider can share his/her knowledge about the cash cow routes in DL international destinations?

SVO and IST. Thanks to cargo GRU.

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 4):
I would also assume FRA/CDG/LGW are pretty profitable too since they get the 777's.

FRA yes thanks to military traffic. CDG is good, but there is a lot connecting hub traffic in there that dilute it some.
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gokmengs
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RE: DL's Most Profitable Intl Routes?

Wed Nov 02, 2005 4:52 am

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 4):
I would guess ATL-NRT is one of the most profitable.

Could be true, its the lonestar in DL Asia presence-or lack there of.

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 5):
Milano Malpensa has been rumored to be DL's most profitable International Destination.

I remember on another thread one insider was saying not so good for MXP but I might be mistaken.

Quoting DeltaMIA (Reply 6):
SVO and IST. Thanks to cargo GRU.

DeltaMIA thanks you made my day IST is my hometown and I fly the route very often and its always packed, I know that doesn't mean good yields but nice to hear the confirmation from you.
Having said that here is a question for you; 2 months ago a DL exec in IST told me that DL is extremely happy with IST and he was pissed because the route is not daily in winter time and he said they codesahare tons of people to AF and AZ. He said it could go daily year round and he said he expected ATL-IST soon, but when DL made the announcement for the expansion I was surprised to see that ATL-IST wasn't there and they didn't mention JFK-IST going daily year round. What gives?
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LXsaab2000
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RE: DL's Most Profitable Intl Routes?

Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:08 am

Quoting Gokmengs (Reply 7):
I remember on another thread one insider was saying not so good for MXP but I might be mistaken.

ATL is good , JFK is quite a disaster
 
rwsea
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RE: DL's Most Profitable Intl Routes?

Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:08 am

Quoting Gokmengs (Reply 7):
Could be true, its the lonestar in DL Asia presence-or lack there of.

True that DL is pretty lame in Asia, although they recently added two additional destinations (MAA and TLV), and don't forget BOM either.

DL just doesn't have a strong hub in the west to launch more Asia flights, and also doesn't have the aircraft. This is why they didn't get the China service either. I'd like to see DL leverage their existing strengths over the Atlantic and focus there even more, potentially adding more Eastern European and Middle East destinations, and by re-entering Africa (e.g St. Petersburg, Warsaw, Bucharest, Beirut, Cairo, Lagos, Johannesburg, Cape Town). BLR might be a good option now too, since NW cancelled their proposed service. Let NW/UA duke it out in the Far East and focus on expanding across the Atlantic from JFK/ATL, where DL's core strengths already lie.

It's only a matter of time before US carriers start looking more to the Middle East, India, and Africa (especially with the 787 coming) and DL would be wise to establish a foothold there now. These routes are cash cows for BA/AF/LH.
 
PITA333
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RE: DL's Most Profitable Intl Routes?

Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:14 am

Anyone know how JFK-BCN does for itself? I hope to travel that in the spring.
 
gokmengs
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RE: DL's Most Profitable Intl Routes?

Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:16 am

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 9):
DL just doesn't have a strong hub in the west to launch more Asia flights, and also doesn't have the aircraft. This is why they didn't get the China service either. I'd like to see DL leverage their existing strengths over the Atlantic and focus there even more, potentially adding more Eastern European and Middle East destinations, and by re-entering Africa (e.g St. Petersburg, Warsaw, Bucharest, Beirut, Cairo, Lagos, Johannesburg, Cape Town). BLR might be a good option now too, since NW cancelled their proposed service. Let NW/UA duke it out in the Far East and focus on expanding across the Atlantic from JFK/ATL, where DL's core strengths already lie.

I agree with you that they don't have the equipment and the hub(they could use SLC for it if they want to)
However I think there is so much more money to be made in Asia compared to Europe. By Asia I would would like to single out 2 countries; China and India. There is so much growth in that market and with the way things going it looks like those 2 countries will be the suppliers of the world in the future if they are not now.I believe the traffic between those 2 and US and I mean lucrative buiness pax traffic will grow continously at a very healthy rate. I think DL has to enter those markets soon.  twocents 
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DeltaMIA
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RE: DL's Most Profitable Intl Routes?

Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:22 am

Quoting Gokmengs (Reply 7):
ATL-IST wasn't there and they didn't mention JFK-IST going daily year round. What gives?

The yield is high to IST. However that doesn't necessarily mean that it is necessary to operate 204 or 408 seats per day to/from the states when you get generate the same amount of revenue with 5 weekly flights.
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gokmengs
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RE: DL's Most Profitable Intl Routes?

Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:41 am

Quoting DeltaMIA (Reply 12):
However that doesn't necessarily mean that it is necessary to operate 204 or 408 seats per day to/from the states when you get generate the same amount of revenue with 5 weekly flights.

Hmm true, do you see any chance of ATL-IST happening or JFK-IST going daily year round at least?
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DeltaMIA
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RE: DL's Most Profitable Intl Routes?

Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:54 am

Quoting Gokmengs (Reply 13):
Hmm true, do you see any chance of ATL-IST happening or JFK-IST going daily year round at least?

JFK-IST could be daily next winter. There will be a lot of spare 763ER's after the seasonal summer flights end.
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Aisak
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RE: DL's Most Profitable Intl Routes?

Wed Nov 02, 2005 6:11 am

Quoting PITA333 (Reply 10):
Anyone know how JFK-BCN does for itself? I hope to travel that in the spring.

I was about to write about BCN...

DL usually does JFK-BCN-MAD-JFK and this summer they got it split to JFK-MAD-JFK and JFK-BCN-JFK

My thought is... if BCN is not profitable... they wouldn't have kept the triangle this winter timetable.... and the triangle route is uncomfortable for both MAD and BCN...
 
gokmengs
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RE: DL's Most Profitable Intl Routes?

Wed Nov 02, 2005 6:23 am

Quoting DeltaMIA (Reply 14):
JFK-IST could be daily next winter. There will be a lot of spare 763ER's after the seasonal summer flights end

Will be looking forward to it, thanks for the info.
So we got IST-SVO-GRU as the money makers as of now, hopefully we will come up with a nice list soon.
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DeltaMIA
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RE: DL's Most Profitable Intl Routes?

Wed Nov 02, 2005 6:28 am

Quoting Gokmengs (Reply 16):
So we got IST-SVO-GRU as the money makers as of now, hopefully we will come up with a nice list soon.

There weren't many losers this year in the international market. This was a great summer for International travel especially transatlantic.
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RE: DL's Most Profitable Intl Routes?

Wed Nov 02, 2005 6:28 am

Quoting Aisak (Reply 15):
DL usually does JFK-BCN-MAD-JFK and this summer they got it split to JFK-MAD-JFK and JFK-BCN-JFK

Actually, the flights were always split during the summer. Last winter was the first time DL operated the triangle flight. In previous winters it used to be JFK-MAD-BCN.

Quoting Aisak (Reply 15):
and the triangle route is uncomfortable for both MAD and BCN...

It may be uncomfortable, but it's the best way for DL to keep BCN active during the winter. Plus, it means one take-off and landing less than JFK-MAD-BCN, thereby, albeit minimally, reducing stress on the aircraft.
 
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RE: DL's Most Profitable Intl Routes?

Wed Nov 02, 2005 6:30 am

Do SU's low fares in the back in the winter filter out the large low-yield ethnic market on JFKSVO? (I suspect VV will play a similar role on JFKKBP) I've seen tickets for that flight on Priceline, but I couldsee American Contractors going to Russia (only non-stop choice) and Biz pax who doesn't like SU making Delta money.
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DeltaMIA
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RE: DL's Most Profitable Intl Routes?

Wed Nov 02, 2005 6:34 am

Quoting UN_B732 (Reply 19):
Do SU's low fares in the back in the winter filter out the large low-yield ethnic market on JFKSVO?

No, Government traffic keep the high yield up. It is great being the lone US carrier on routes connecting foreign capitals to the United States. The leisure traveler may take SU up on their low fares, but government and adoptions stay on DL.
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RE: DL's Most Profitable Intl Routes?

Wed Nov 02, 2005 6:42 am

Quoting DeltaMIA (Reply 6):
Thanks to cargo GRU.

GRU now with two daily flights must be a money-maker.

Rgs,
 
Delta4eva
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RE: DL's Most Profitable Intl Routes?

Wed Nov 02, 2005 7:02 am

The routes that I think are most profitable are as follows: ATL-NRT, ATL-GRU, ATL-MXP, CDG-BOM, ATL-LGW, ATL-FCO, JFK-SVO, JFK-IST, CDG-MAA, ATL-CDG, ATL-FRA, ATL-MAN, JFK-ATH, ATL-EZE.
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positiverate
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RE: DL's Most Profitable Intl Routes?

Wed Nov 02, 2005 7:24 am

Quoting Gokmengs (Reply 13):
do you see any chance of ATL-IST happening

If I'm not mistaken ATL-IST was an MD-11 previously. Does the -ER have the legs to fly it? God knows there's no extra 777's to put on the route...
 
gokmengs
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RE: DL's Most Profitable Intl Routes?

Wed Nov 02, 2005 8:27 am

Quoting Positiverate (Reply 23):
If I'm not mistaken ATL-IST was an MD-11 previously.

Yes ATL-IST was an MD-11

Quoting Positiverate (Reply 23):
Does the -ER have the legs to fly it? God knows there's no extra 777's to put on the route...

I will check but I would think so they are starting ATL-ATH with an ER and I would assume if it can do ATH it can do IST too. If range is the reason I will be so pissed. All the signs were there for ATL-IST to start. Wish DL had more 777's  pray 
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LAXintl
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RE: DL's Most Profitable Intl Routes?

Wed Nov 02, 2005 11:54 am

This subject was discussed several months back.

I have a 2004 Delta network study regarding profitability of the carriers international operations. For the most part very little was profitable for the year. The study listed flights in regards to operating margins, and many of the top routes were not particularly high yield business destinations.
From what I can remember off the top of my head (dont have report with me), ATL hub had better operating margins then the JFK destined European flights.

Similarly off the top of my head, the flights with the top operating margins included,

JFK-SVO
JFK-VCE
ATL-MAN
ATL-DUB
ATL-LIR
ATL-NRT
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Delta4eva
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RE: DL's Most Profitable Intl Routes?

Wed Nov 02, 2005 12:17 pm

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 25):
For the most part very little was profitable for the year.

How can this be possible? DL has said that the one place where they are making money is international. I don't understand why DL would be expanding like they are internationally if very little was profitable.
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LAXintl
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RE: DL's Most Profitable Intl Routes?

Wed Nov 02, 2005 12:59 pm

Quoting Delta4eva (Reply 26):
How can this be possible? DL has said that the one place where they are making money is international. I don't understand why DL would be expanding like they are internationally if very little was profitable.

Probably clearly shows almost nothing made money domestically for 2004.
Basically international as a whole is closer to generating positive cash then the domestic network. Hence the shift to more international flying, and dropping of Song.

Also while many airlines are experiencing increases in yields, Delta has seen a further 4% erosion in passenger mile yields for the first 6 months of 2005 year-over-year.
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fbm3rd
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RE: DL's Most Profitable Intl Routes?

Wed Nov 02, 2005 1:58 pm

Did DL ever fly TLV? or was that just CO?
 
rwsea
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RE: DL's Most Profitable Intl Routes?

Wed Nov 02, 2005 3:10 pm

Quoting Fbm3rd (Reply 28):
Did DL ever fly TLV? or was that just CO?

DL flew to TLV prior to 9/11, but cut the service either shortly before or after (foggy memory). Around the time, DL was also flying to CAI and DXB.
 
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RE: DL's Most Profitable Intl Routes?

Wed Nov 02, 2005 3:46 pm

Quoting Gokmengs (Reply 24):
will check but I would think so they are starting ATL-ATH with an ER and I would assume if it can do ATH it can do IST too. If range is the reason I will be so pissed. All the signs were there for ATL-IST to start. Wish DL had more 777's

The 763ER should have no trouble flying ATL-IST nonstop. Per Boeing, the max range of the ER is 6105 nm giving it plenty of range to fly ATL-IST nonstop. ATL-IST is 5018 nm, just 65 nm longer than ATL-ATH which will be flown by the ER and 27 nm shorter than LAX-FRA which DL flew with a 763ER in the early 90's.

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 29):
DL flew to TLV prior to 9/11, but cut the service either shortly before or after (foggy memory). Around the time, DL was also flying to CAI and DXB.

In fact, JFK-TLV along with JKF-CAI/DXB/ZRH/BRU/ARN/MUC/MAN was dropped as part of DL's flight reductions following 9/11.
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EddieDude
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RE: DL's Most Profitable Intl Routes?

Wed Nov 02, 2005 4:55 pm

How about JFK-MEX? In my experience, flights are always full and it is hard to find a cheap fare.
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TakeOff
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RE: DL's Most Profitable Intl Routes?

Thu Nov 03, 2005 1:29 am

How about JFK-ATH? Is that profitable? I imagine it is, especially given the DL / OA duopoly on the route. Every time I've taken this flight is jam-packed both ways.
 
TokyoNarita
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RE: DL's Most Profitable Intl Routes?

Thu Nov 03, 2005 1:37 am

Quote:
The 763ER should have no trouble flying ATL-IST nonstop. Per Boeing, the max range of the ER is 6105 nm giving it plenty of range to fly ATL-IST nonstop. ATL-IST is 5018 nm, just 65 nm longer than ATL-ATH which will be flown by the ER and 27 nm shorter than LAX-FRA which DL flew with a 763ER in the early 90's.

Maybe so in distance...but westbound ATH-ATL on a rough winter afternoon when the jetstream would sit right on top of the mid-Atlantic should be interesting...

TokyoNarita

[Edited 2005-11-02 17:38:47]
 
MAH4546
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RE: DL's Most Profitable Intl Routes?

Thu Nov 03, 2005 1:44 am

Quoting TokyoNarita (Reply 33):
Maybe so in distance...but westbound ATH-ATL on a rough winter afternoon when the jetstream would sit right on top of the mid-Atlantic should be interesting...

I'm pretty sure Atlanta-Athens will be a summer-only operation.
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aces727
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RE: DL's Most Profitable Intl Routes?

Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:48 am

Does anyone knows how is ATL-BOG doing?
 
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RE: DL's Most Profitable Intl Routes?

Thu Nov 03, 2005 3:49 am

Quoting Gokmengs:
agree with you that they don't have the equipment and the hub(they could use SLC for it if they want to)
However I think there is so much more money to be made in Asia compared to Europe. By Asia I would would like to single out 2 countries; China and India. There is so much growth in that market and with the way things going it looks like those 2 countries will be the suppliers of the world in the future if they are not now.I believe the traffic between those 2 and US and I mean lucrative buiness pax traffic will grow continously at a very healthy rate. I think DL has to enter those markets soon.


If memory serves me right (and it hasn't before) DL was looking for route authority for China flights last yr but they were granted to CO/AA, so not sure how long they have to wait before they can re-apply.
They also use to serve HK in the 90's, I remember one of the airline magazines had a picture of a DL MD-11 taking off from Kai-Tak, was this an extension of the Tokyo route?
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RE: DL's Most Profitable Intl Routes?

Thu Nov 03, 2005 4:27 am

Regarding DL's int'l operations, it is an absolute shame that the US airline with the largest trans-atlantic network doesn't have any piece of the NYC-LON market...all thanks to the antiquated Bermuda II agreement. Meanwhile AA is allowed 6 daily rotations on JFK-LHR and other foreign carriers are also allowed into the market. The playing field would definately be leveled if CO were allowed EWR-LHR and DL allowed JFK-LHR. BTW...how many flights do you guess DL would run on ATL-LHR, particularly in the summer season?
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RE: DL's Most Profitable Intl Routes?

Thu Nov 03, 2005 4:29 am

Quoting Pilot21 (Reply 36):
If memory serves me right (and it hasn't before) DL was looking for route authority for China flights last yr but they were granted to CO/AA, so not sure how long they have to wait before they can re-apply.

The next pax rights to be applied for would be for 2007, IIRC, so applications for those are at least a year off.

[quote=Pilot21,reply=36]They also use to serve HK in the 90's, I remember one of the airline magazines had a picture of a DL MD-11 taking off from Kai-Tak, was No. The initial routing was LAX-ANC-HKG with L-1011s, before the route became nonstop with the MD-11s.
 
Delta4eva
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RE: DL's Most Profitable Intl Routes?

Thu Nov 03, 2005 11:40 am

Quoting Pilot21 (Reply 36):
I believe the traffic between those 2 and US and I mean lucrative buiness pax traffic will grow continously at a very healthy rate. I think DL has to enter those markets soon.

Ummm...DL is in one of those markets and they were one of the first U.S. airlines in the market. They have two daily flights into India. JFK-CDG-BOM, and JFK-CDG-MAA. They currently have the most flights out of any U.S. carrier into India.
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deltadude
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RE: DL's Most Profitable Intl Routes?

Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:52 pm

What about SCL? There may be empty seats but there is a hell of a lot of cargo on those 767-300s. I remember non-reving SCL-ATL and having to use my last S1-R to get on a half-empty -300. A groups of S3s got left behind and Business-Elite was empty.

[Edited 2005-11-03 06:54:25]
 
gokmengs
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RE: DL's Most Profitable Intl Routes?

Thu Nov 03, 2005 3:06 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 34):
I'm pretty sure Atlanta-Athens will be a summer-only operation.

You might be right DL didn't give specific info about that during the intl expansion press release.

Quoting Delta4eva (Reply 39):
Ummm...DL is in one of those markets and they were one of the first U.S. airlines in the market. They have two daily flights into India. JFK-CDG-BOM, and JFK-CDG-MAA. They currently have the most flights out of any U.S. carrier into India.

Actually I should have been more clear with my post, however thanks for the clarification.
Its true that DL does fly MAA- and BOM I actually flew MAA with DL however, what I was trying to get at was a west coast based hub serving asia non stop. Very cool that DL is serving India but I think the biz pax would appreciate a non stop to BOM especially and I think there is a market for it. What is dissapointing however is the fact that DL is missing out on the booming china market. Wouldn't it be nice to have pax go non-stop from west coast to PVG,HKG,CAN instead of codesharing with miserable CZ(-- on the latter one--, believe me I flew LAX-CAN just few weeks ago with DL codeshare CZ J class and it sucks.) Unfortunately DL don't have enough aircraft(777) to make these destinations, also the lack of a true west coast hub is a problem. Does anyone think DL will start asia non stops from SLC if they purchase new aircraft?
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rwsea
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RE: DL's Most Profitable Intl Routes?

Thu Nov 03, 2005 3:30 pm

Quoting Gokmengs (Reply 41):
Very cool that DL is serving India but I think the biz pax would appreciate a non stop to BOM especially and I think there is a market for it

The 777 can't make it to BOM nonstop from JFK. Although CO and AA are flying nonstop to DEL, I'm sure they would have picked BOM if the 777 had the legs to make it - BOM simply has tons more business-oriented traffic. Maybe when DL gets 787's they will start JFK-BOM.

Quoting Gokmengs (Reply 41):
Does anyone think DL will start asia non stops from SLC if they purchase new aircraft?

No. SLC doesn't have the O&D to support these flights, except for possibly Tokyo. Additionally, the hub doesn't currently have enough feed from the east to make these flights worthwhile either, although it is improving. Thing is, SLC would be competing with well established hubs at SFO, ORD, and DTW. People travelling from the east can go through these hubs, while West Coasters will be reluctant to backtrack through SLC. Remember that DL couldn't make PDX work, and PDX is a bigger city than SLC, has a bigger business base, and more O&D with Asia.

I don't think DL could be successful to the Far East unless they opened a hub or gateway at SEA or LAX (SFO already is dominated by UA and PDX didn't work the first go-around). I think SEA might work, given the code-share with AS. But again I ask, why not just focus on India and potentially Africa for now. DL should be focusing on their existing strengths for now, and that strength is the Atlantic. Maybe it's better for them to forget China for the next few years until they have the aircraft (787).
 
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RE: DL's Most Profitable Intl Routes?

Thu Nov 03, 2005 3:32 pm

ATL-EZE x1 daily with a load factor of 97%.
And they are adding a second flight.
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RE: DL's Most Profitable Intl Routes?

Thu Nov 03, 2005 6:29 pm

Quoting AR1300 (Reply 43):
And they are adding a second flight.

Source for that?

Quoting Gokmengs (Reply 41):
What is dissapointing however is the fact that DL is missing out on the booming china market...Unfortunately DL don't have enough aircraft(777) to make these destinations, also the lack of a true west coast hub is a problem.

Actually DL does have aircraft for potential CHina routes, namely 5 777s that could be used for two nonstop routes. The problem is that DL has not been granted any traffic rights to China yet (last allocation was Texas Galore for AA and CO), and it won't be before 2007 before DL could even get traffic rights for China.
 
gokmengs
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RE: DL's Most Profitable Intl Routes?

Thu Nov 03, 2005 11:17 pm

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 42):
The 777 can't make it to BOM nonstop from JFK. Although CO and AA are flying nonstop to DEL, I'm sure they would have picked BOM if the 777 had the legs to make it - BOM simply has tons more business-oriented traffic. Maybe when DL gets 787's they will start JFK-BOM.

I agree JFK-BOM would be money maker, but I was actually talking about a non stop from the west coast maybe with a 777, but DL doesn't have the equipment right now, and no west coast hub that can support it as of now.

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 42):
No. SLC doesn't have the O&D to support these flights, except for possibly Tokyo. Additionally, the hub doesn't currently have enough feed from the east to make these flights worthwhile either, although it is improving. Thing is, SLC would be competing with well established hubs at SFO, ORD, and DTW. People travelling from the east can go through these hubs, while West Coasters will be reluctant to backtrack through SLC. Remember that DL couldn't make PDX work, and PDX is a bigger city than SLC, has a bigger business base, and more O&D with Asia.

Having said that JFK is not a hub but a focus city and they have tons of flights transatlantic, they could use LAX-when they have the rights and the aircraft- as a focus city for transpacific flights. I'm sure I'm not the only one that ever came up with this idea and hope someone in the know can tell me , if this was ever considered by DL and if it did what stops them?
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DeltaMIA
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RE: DL's Most Profitable Intl Routes?

Thu Nov 03, 2005 11:49 pm

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 42):
people travelling from the east can go through these hubs, while West Coasters will be reluctant to backtrack through SLC. Remember that DL couldn't make PDX work, and PDX is a bigger city than SLC, has a bigger business base, and more O&D with Asia.

What doomed PDX was the lack of feed. There were only a handful of flights into PDX to feed the relatively large number of Asia flights DL had. So a lot of Asia passengers were unable to take DL just due to lack of capacity to PDX or lack of options getting to PDX. Sure there was a larger O&D base at PDX, but that would equal itself out with the feed into SLC. Personally a SLC flight to Asia would do better for DL now than having it leave from the west coast. However SLC would still be about 3rd or 4th in line for gaining an Asia flight from DL.

Quoting AR1300 (Reply 43):
ATL-EZE x1 daily with a load factor of 97%.
And they are adding a second flight.

Gotta get the rights first and the last 7 slots went to CO. DL would love to add a second flight to EZE, but they can't just yet.

Quoting Gokmengs (Reply 45):
Having said that JFK is not a hub but a focus city and they have tons of flights transatlantic,

JFK is a hub.
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BigGSFO
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RE: DL's Most Profitable Intl Routes?

Thu Nov 03, 2005 11:49 pm

Quoting Gokmengs (Reply 45):
Having said that JFK is not a hub but a focus city and they have tons of flights transatlantic,

I believe JFK is consoidered a hub for DL.

As far as any intercontinental flying from the west coast - DL doesn't seem to have an interest in this. Their China application last year was for ATL (obviously) and their recently announced transatlantic expansion was from ATL and JFK only - no CVG, no LAX, no BOS and definitely no SLC. I do not see them expanding much outside of the also-recently applied routes to Mexico from the west coast.
 
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RE: DL's Most Profitable Intl Routes?

Fri Nov 04, 2005 12:15 am

Quoting DeltaMIA (Reply 46):
JFK is a hub.



Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 47):
I believe JFK is consoidered a hub for DL.

JFK is my home airport, and DL doesn't consider it as a hub. but obviously this is just a term that they use maybe. This link on DL website shows ATL-CVG-SLC as their hubs, and JFK as a gateway. Heck JFK could have more flights than SLC maybe so its just a matter of terminology I guess.
Link to DL facts and stats:
http://www.delta.com/about_delta/cor...mation/delta_stats_facts/index.jsp

Quoting DeltaMIA (Reply 46):
What doomed PDX was the lack of feed. There were only a handful of flights into PDX to feed the relatively large number of Asia flights DL had. So a lot of Asia passengers were unable to take DL just due to lack of capacity to PDX or lack of options getting to PDX. Sure there was a larger O&D base at PDX, but that would equal itself out with the feed into SLC. Personally a SLC flight to Asia would do better for DL now than having it leave from the west coast. However SLC would still be about 3rd or 4th in line for gaining an Asia flight from DL.

I agree a city like LAX with added DL domestic presence(it even could be enough right now) would be a better Asia gateway for DL IMO. Obviously money and time needed.

[Edited 2005-11-03 16:16:17]
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DeltaMIA
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RE: DL's Most Profitable Intl Routes?

Fri Nov 04, 2005 12:49 am

Quoting Gokmengs (Reply 48):
JFK is my home airport, and DL doesn't consider it as a hub. but obviously this is just a term that they use maybe. This link on DL website shows ATL-CVG-SLC as their hubs, and JFK as a gateway. Heck JFK could have more flights than SLC maybe so its just a matter of terminology I guess.

Yes all in terminology. "Major Hub" it is not, hub it is.

The latest news release regarding DL's position at JFK.

http://news.delta.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=9881
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