UN_B732
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FR Now In Poland, Is Ukraine/Russia Next?

Wed Nov 02, 2005 7:53 am

Are the CIS countries next if the LCCs can get past the red-tape?
I know some airline flies to Vnukovo from somewhere in Germany, but I forgot their name (?)
I could see FR flying STN-Some Moscow airport, HHN-Some moscow airport, and a handful of other destinations, ditto with Ukraine.
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EI321
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RE: FR Now In Poland, Is Ukraine/Russia Next?

Wed Nov 02, 2005 8:11 am

I presume FR could only fly to Ukraine or Russia from Ireland. I hope that happens but I think it will take a while.
 
afay1
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RE: FR Now In Poland, Is Ukraine/Russia Next?

Wed Nov 02, 2005 9:53 am

As soon as Russia and Ukraine sign open-skies agreements (sooner for Ukraine, unlikely in the near future for Russia) then I am sure some LCCs will move in. For the moment the only LCCish airline scheduled is Germania Express from Berlin to Domodedovo (although I thought someone flies to Vnukovo too). FR frequently does charters to LED Pulkovo so must be familiar with Russian ops in any case...
 
RedChili
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RE: FR Now In Poland, Is Ukraine/Russia Next?

Wed Nov 02, 2005 6:32 pm

Quoting UN_B732 (Thread starter):
I could see FR flying STN-Some Moscow airport, HHN-Some moscow airport,

I believe that EI321 is correct. Since FR is an Irish carrier, they can only fly from Ireland to Russia and the Ukraine. I really doubt that the UK-Russian bilateral aviation agreements provide for an Irish carrier on that route.

Moreover, a flight from Moscow to London would probably be too long for Ryanair. The flight takes 4 hours and 30 minutes.
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fvtu134
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RE: FR Now In Poland, Is Ukraine/Russia Next?

Wed Nov 02, 2005 6:32 pm

Just flew two days ago from DME to DUS on ST (Germania Express, ex DBA) and Germanwings also flies VNO-CGN. Besides that Sibir is also flying and then obviously all the regulars. You may see LCC's entering the market with destinations to Moscow and St Petersburg but don't expect them to make hubs there... I'm sure they would suddenly find themselves caught in some red tape which would make life very difficult. Beside the top carriers (SU, FV, S7), Russian carriers are to fragile to compete.

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BAtriple7
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RE: FR Now In Poland, Is Ukraine/Russia Next?

Wed Nov 02, 2005 6:43 pm

Can't see FR going into Russia or currently past its outposts in the Baltic states. Red tape is a major factor. I'd guess FR will look at the next new entrants to the EU before it even dreams about flying to Russia...  Wink
 
cornish
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RE: FR Now In Poland, Is Ukraine/Russia Next?

Wed Nov 02, 2005 6:54 pm

Quoting RedChili (Reply 3):
I believe that EI321 is correct. Since FR is an Irish carrier, they can only fly from Ireland to Russia and the Ukraine. I really doubt that the UK-Russian bilateral aviation agreements provide for an Irish carrier on that route.

Exactly. FR can fly between any two points in the EU but only from their home registered base to a non-EU country. It's more than a bit of red tape that would need removing. As German carriers, Germania and Germanwings can serve the Germany-Russia market as the bilateral allows multiple carriers to fly between the two countries.
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Buyantukhaa
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RE: FR Now In Poland, Is Ukraine/Russia Next?

Thu Nov 03, 2005 1:23 am

Quoting FVTu134 (Reply 4):
Germanwings also flies VNO-CGN

That should be VKO-CGN.
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A350
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RE: FR Now In Poland, Is Ukraine/Russia Next?

Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:44 am

Quoting RedChili (Reply 3):
I believe that EI321 is correct. Since FR is an Irish carrier, they can only fly from Ireland to Russia and the Ukraine. I really doubt that the UK-Russian bilateral aviation agreements provide for an Irish carrier on that route.

Future aviation agreements will be negotiated by the EU commission only, and they stated that they want only agreements in which the EU is considered as one country. So, after a complete new EU-Russian agreement FR would be able to fly London - Moscow. However, such an agreement probably won't come anytime soon. Situation in Ukraine is different, it's much more likely that they sign a treaty close to the commission's wishes.

Germanwings already flies to Moscow, as mentioned above, and I can imagine EasyJet to follow.

On the other hand, I don't expect Ryanair to go into GUS, it's just not their business. The existing EU member states, plus Norway, offer a growing travel market. FR heavily depends on the economic freedoms of the EU, bureaucracy and market barriers are not compatible with their business model.

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A342
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RE: FR Now In Poland, Is Ukraine/Russia Next?

Thu Nov 03, 2005 3:26 am

I guess they would fly to Yaroslavl (IAR), 256 km away from Moscow.  Big grin

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lehovec
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RE: FR Now In Poland, Is Ukraine/Russia Next?

Thu Nov 03, 2005 4:28 am

Quoting A350 (Reply 8):
Germanwings already flies to Moscow, as mentioned above, and I can imagine EasyJet to follow.

On some new G-EZI? planes there are PA mp3s in Russian as well so I imagine this could actually happen soon.
 
fvtu134
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RE: FR Now In Poland, Is Ukraine/Russia Next?

Thu Nov 03, 2005 5:22 am

Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Reply 7):



Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Reply 7):
Quoting FVTu134 (Reply 4):
Germanwings also flies VNO-CGN

That should be VKO-CGN.

Pardon this newbie's ignorance  Wink
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nighthawk
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RE: FR Now In Poland, Is Ukraine/Russia Next?

Thu Nov 03, 2005 5:57 am

A year or two ago ryanair bought out Buzz, the main reason for doing so was to obtain a UK operating licence. This license should allow them to operate UK-Russia (and i presume EU-Russia?) if they ever wished to.
 
EI321
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RE: FR Now In Poland, Is Ukraine/Russia Next?

Thu Nov 03, 2005 6:11 am

 
adriaticflight
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RE: FR Now In Poland, Is Ukraine/Russia Next?

Thu Nov 03, 2005 6:24 am

It would be great to see Ryanair in Russia and the Ukraine. However it just isn't going to happen. There are several key reasons i can think off:

1. The red-tape that both countries just love to endulge in would scare FR.
2. Ukranians and Russians need visas for the EU, most EU citizens need Visas for Russia..this does not encourage leisure travellers.
3. Flight times as already mentioned, and I don't think Ryanair wouldn't want to try overnighters which come carriers do to Moscow.

I don't FR will be seen in Ukraine/Russia for years which is a shame because both countries need better quality and cheaper air travel. Of the two the Ukraine is the more likly to see LCCs from western Europe because it will eventually join the EU. But if this happens before 2020 it would be a wonder.
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