greenguy01
Posts: 221
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 9:21 am

Silly Article From Msnbc On Legacy Carriers

Thu Nov 03, 2005 1:42 am

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9342052/

This is probably the wackiest article that I have read. The author states that it is un-patriotic to fly the low-cost carriers because they are driving the dinosaurs of the industry out of business. Give me a break.
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you to their level and beat you with experience.
 
abrelosojos
Posts: 4050
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 6:48 am

RE: Silly Article From Msnbc On Legacy Carriers

Thu Nov 03, 2005 1:55 am

Hahahaha ... this is the most pathetic article I have ever read. They should outsource writing to India!

Some notable comments -

1/ "Along the way, worked with the government to secure our borders"

- The airlines?

2/ "And what have they gotten in return? Travelers have taken advantage of airlines’ willingness to maintain competitive fares and repaid it with fleeting loyalty and indifference. At the same time, selfish labor unions have drained the big airlines’ coffers and predatory upstart carriers have poached their routes."

- Hahahaha ... someone should tell the guy what capitalism and market economy is all about. Haha - us bad bad bad travellers have exploited the demand and supply mechanisms to mess with the airlines.

3/ "Without the major U.S. airlines, my neighbor would not be able to visit her brother twice a year in Israel; she would not have been able to explore Central and South America, taking time to become fluent in Spanish. Without the major airlines, many Americans would be unable to share Thanksgiving and Christmas with their families."

- What a freaking drama queen! I mean, seriously. Does he realize that demand and supply would ensure a different airline come in if there was demand?

I am sorry. How much did he get paid by whom to write this?

Thanks for posting this. Made me smile.

-A.
Live, and let live.
 
aad665
Posts: 222
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 1999 11:03 am

RE: Silly Article From Msnbc On Legacy Carriers

Thu Nov 03, 2005 1:56 am

Hi,

Very poor article. If I follow his logic, we should all use Amtrak, as trains open americain country!

Let's go...all with Amtrak.

aad665
 
Mikey711MN
Posts: 1232
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 4:19 am

RE: Silly Article From Msnbc On Legacy Carriers

Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:04 am

From the article:
Travelers have taken advantage of airlines’ willingness to maintain competitive fares and repaid it with fleeting loyalty and indifference.

From his bio:
He is the author of "The Penny Pincher's Passport to Luxury Travel," a guidebook on traveling in high style at budget-friendly prices.

So should we take advantage of competitive fares as consumers of air travel or should we commit to one airline regardless of what it costs? I'm not sure if it's possible, but Mr. Widzer seems to think we should do both. Whatever.

-Mike
I plan on living forever. So far, so good...
 
Mikey711MN
Posts: 1232
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 4:19 am

RE: Silly Article From Msnbc On Legacy Carriers

Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:09 am

By the way, if you want to sound off on him at his forum, go here. Looks like a few have already!
I plan on living forever. So far, so good...
 
BigGSFO
Posts: 2214
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 5:27 am

RE: Silly Article From Msnbc On Legacy Carriers

Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:12 am

Wow...I don't even know what to say. I am no fan of the LCC's however I found that article somewhat patronizing and insulting to ones intelligence.

One thing that disturbs me in today's American media is the over-use of the word "American", not in reference to AA, but in the context in doing something that is the "American (patriotic) way." It's left-over form the wave of patriotism that the USA felt right after 09/11 and that current administration likes to conjure when they want to influence Americans. "To not do this is un-American" "If you vote for so-and-so, you are un-patriotic" blah blah blah. This article is no different. He wraps the flag around himself and says he more American than someone else who chooses a Jetblue flight over Delta. Insulting to those of us who choose Jetblue and patronizing to those of us who choose Delta. Good grief!

I am a little surprised MSNBC posted his story even though it is opinion piece. It sounds like a rant we would hear on A.net, but not on a somewhat respected newswire.
 
PHLBOS
Posts: 6504
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 6:38 am

RE: Silly Article From Msnbc On Legacy Carriers

Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:22 am

Old news guys, see below-archived thread:

Why You Should Fly The Big Airlines (by Carmenlu15 Sep 14 2005 in Civil Aviation)
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
greenguy01
Posts: 221
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 9:21 am

RE: Silly Article From Msnbc On Legacy Carriers

Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:34 am

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 6):
Old news guys, see below-archived thread:

Why You Should Fly The Big Airlines (by Carmenlu15 Sep 14 2005 in Civil Aviation)

Ahh... the wonderful Airliners.net search function.
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you to their level and beat you with experience.
 
gusnyc
Posts: 139
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 6:06 am

RE: Silly Article From Msnbc On Legacy Carriers

Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:43 am

Really bad article. Probably he wouln't be very happy if he has to fly a route without competition and therefore, extremely expensive tickets and lack of service.

But at the end, it is coming from MSNBC. And that is the Microsoft part. Who other company in the world could be more interested in supporting a big dinosaur, expensive with bad service (like Windows) rather than a new, faster, simpler and more convenient new comer?

Disclaimer: I am not saying that legacy carriers are as bad as Windows (it wouldn't be a flight without a crash    ) but any airline, big, small, lcc, etc, can be really bad without competition.

Gus
PS, Sorry about my grammar. I am still working on my English.

[Edited 2005-11-02 18:50:28]
 
socalfive
Posts: 474
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2001 5:37 am

RE: Silly Article From Msnbc On Legacy Carriers

Thu Nov 03, 2005 4:53 am

Well this guy is just too far out there to not send him a letter. Here's a CC of an email I sent to him rather than post on his message board...


Joel...

Having just today found your commentary on flying LCCs versus Legacy Carriers, I truly can't believe you claim to be an expert of Air travel. The only point you made that is dead-on correct to any educated and/or informed individual is the union-labor issues.

The LCC (Low Cost Carriers) not Low-budget carriers (Low budget defined is the quality of your commentary) are the single reason we aren't paying more than double the cost of air travel we pay now. You're correct that SW and Jetblue aren't always the cheapest ticket, but they ARE always the most consistently cheap. They have brought a new level of efficiency and cost control to an industry mired in bad business decisions and worse cash management. The Legacy carriers have always merely passed those ever-higher costs of doing business to the customer rather than disciplining themselves and reasonably holding themselves accountable to those that really own these companies; the stockholders. Today, they're held accountable in the marketplace, today everyone's watching, the world is smaller, information is easy to come by, and there's no more place for these kinds of management teams to hide.

Sure the LLCs expand to markets that they perceive will be the most profitable to them. That's a good business decision. All this whining about route losses like Des Moines (which in principal I disagree with the probability that they're really all that unprofitable) just enforces my point. Corporations aren't in business to waste millions on unlicensed charity. If the routes are unprofitable, usually due to frequency issues or aircraft size in excess of market demands, then they should be shut down and the resources moved into markets that are profitable. Period, end of story, it's about business not Grandma. Whining about such issues is like intentionally slamming your own head in a car door every single day and complaining to anyone that will listen that the scars won't heal.

I fly them all but I enjoy Southwest the most not because they're cheaper, they're not always, however their frequent flyer program is the simplest, the employees are the friendliest, they're consistently on-time and reliable. You never hear of a deferred maintenance issue with them as they are meticulous in maintenance and safety. It boils down to the end product and with all the points factored in, they're a wonderful experience practically every time. Delta mostly has been as well. American too. United, not so much in my personal experience.

True, the Legacy carriers have blazed the early history of air travel, but, just as pilots no longer barn-storm on Sundays, the marketplace is evolving and some day soon we will have a domestic market and an International market and the service will be distinctly different, you already see that for the most part, it's just not yet clearly defined. The last time I flew American on a 2.5 hour flight, all I "got" was peanuts and Diet Coke. Pretty much the same as I get on Southwest. And you know what Joel? That's ok, I'll have meals before I board the aircraft or after I land because with the ticket prices now in 'under control', the meal on the ground, in effect, is a hell of a lot less expensive than it used to be at thirty-thousand feet and typically a better quality.

People should "fly" whatever they feel is safe and affordable for them. Our only REAL issue here is the evolution of air travel and believe me, I'm certain we're seeing just the beginning, but, it's getting better all the time, the strong will survive and those that resist the change in the marketplace will founder, just as it does on all levels of all business since the beginning of time.
 
klkla
Posts: 639
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 8:51 am

RE: Silly Article From Msnbc On Legacy Carriers

Thu Nov 03, 2005 5:00 am

I think this is more of an Op Ed piece rather than an 'article' per se. The author is just giving her opinion not necessarily reporting fact.
 
Gnomon
Posts: 894
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 1999 12:38 pm

RE: Silly Article From Msnbc On Legacy Carriers

Thu Nov 03, 2005 5:05 am

While I certainly don't differ on the legacy carriers' importance to the global economy -- and while I'm as big an aviation romantic as someone -- I think Widzer's advice would be easier to follow if the legacies would give us some incentive to fly with them.

On longer domestic trips I find I get consistently better service -- friendly F/As, more legroom, and just as much food -- on LCCs as I do on DL, CO, NW, etc.

While LCCs are adding PTVs, the legacies have been removing pillows from their cabins instead of creating value in their products. If they'd differentiate themselves from the LCCs rather than trying to "look" low-cost, I'd gladly give them my business.