ERAUMcDlover
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What Can We Expect From DL After The BK?

Thu Nov 03, 2005 8:05 am

What do you guys think will happen with DL after the BK? I mean with everything? Fleet, paint scheme, routes, everything. Personally heres my opinion.....
Fleet
-New paint job, I read somewhere, don't kill me because I don't know where offhand, but somewhere that wavy gravy was on its way out, and now was the chance for a new livery because now they have the song birds, wavy gravy, and the ron allen to get rid of. Personally i'm hoping they go back to the widget, maybe not exactly, but something retro, and modern, but definately focus on the history, which is the widget, maybe modernize the old colors spiffed up, anyone who can come up with some ideas, and create them, post them, i'm curious what you guys think.
oh yea planes....
T7
78/76/75
73NG/M88
D8-300/400 ( I'm hoping for a huge withdrawal of the RJ!)
Service/Routes
I'm expecting them to keep the competitve rates, like some of the best pay in the industry in N. America. I hope the Song equipment eventually makes it fleet wide and not just 1750NM and more. I also think that this TransAtlantic expansion is very promising and going to yield them a lot of $$$$. Hopefully, they can develop a western hub, if not SLC, then don't be afraid to move guys, maybe LAS??? Work on TransPac flights, and maybe some expansion into S. America.
Let me hear your opinions for this great airline. I am a loyal DL customer and fan and I understand there are many out there who are not. If you have an opinion thats great, and I'd like the DL flaming to a minimum, but all opinions are welcome, I respect them.
Thanks
DL, what a classy lady....Mad Dogs...a classy plane.....USA...just the best all around
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: What Can We Expect From DL After The BK?

Thu Nov 03, 2005 9:41 am

I would expect Delta to order some 787-3s and maybe some 787-8s to add more international routes, and to start retiring the MD-88s and MD-90s.
The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
 
ERAUMcDlover
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RE: What Can We Expect From DL After The BK?

Fri Nov 04, 2005 1:58 pm

I wonder which DL will prioritize first, 76 replacement, or M88 replacement, both need it, but which first? Could the M88s soldier on long enough for the long haul fleet to be modernized? Also, wouldn't that mean more profits from the savings on the efficient long haul fleet to go to the narrowbody replacement. If DL can replace the long haul, and make due with the narrowbody fleet, I think by the time they have the capital and the vision, they could launch the 73 replacement, roughly 10 years down the road so many seem to think.
DL, what a classy lady....Mad Dogs...a classy plane.....USA...just the best all around
 
cslusarc
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RE: What Can We Expect From DL After The BK?

Fri Nov 04, 2005 2:54 pm

Quoting ERAUMcDlover (Reply 2):
wonder which DL will prioritize first, 76 replacement, or M88 replacement, both need it, but which first?

...I have a feeling that the 767s will be replaced with 787-3s/-8s/-9s while the M88s won't be replaced, as DL over the next 10 years will want to reduce its domestic market share and improve CASM. I do believe that immediate after DL exist Ch 11 it will place an order for two class 95-100 seat jets like the EMB-195 or C110s to replace 737-200s/300s. I think the C110s would be feasable if DL "trades-in" CRJ-100s flying in OH colors. This would leave Bombardier stuck to remarket the CRJ-100s.
--cslusarc from YWG
 
crownvic
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RE: What Can We Expect From DL After The BK?

Fri Nov 04, 2005 3:08 pm

The sad part is, Delta is the last true domestic carrier flying widebody equipment. The new schedules are already showing a dramatic reduction in this sort of activity as the airline begins to re-deploy the 763's & 764's to the new International routes. By Spring time, don't expect to see much of anymore domestic Delta wide body service and we will all be crammed into narrowbody equipment on nearly every U.S. flight regardless of the airline, with just a few exceptions...
 
Iloveboeing
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RE: What Can We Expect From DL After The BK?

Fri Nov 04, 2005 3:11 pm

I think that Delta has a chance to be very successful, but I don't think they should "run away" from the domestic market. Low cost, low-fare carriers are here to stay and Delta needs to be a low-fare carrier.

I think Delta is a great airline and has good aircraft (especially the 738s with 36-inch pitch), but I do not approve of how they charge extremely high fares into airports like AVL and TRI. As a consequence, we have to drive there....it costs more to fly to North Carolina from Maryland than it does to Europe....

If Delta works to make fares affordable for everyone so those poor souls don't have to get in their cars and drive 10 hours, I will be even happier with them....
 
ERAUMcDlover
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RE: What Can We Expect From DL After The BK?

Sat Nov 05, 2005 2:02 am

DL is just like a lot of carriers though. I have a friend in TX. and I'm going to absoulutely get raped by either AA, CO, or WN because she lives way south where there are 3 airports and each carrier serves only one of them and monopolizes it. That happens everywhere. If there is an airport that an airline monopolizes, then yes, fares will be really high.

Anybody have any thoughts on a new livery or fleet changes?
DL, what a classy lady....Mad Dogs...a classy plane.....USA...just the best all around
 
Alitalia744
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RE: What Can We Expect From DL After The BK?

Sat Nov 05, 2005 2:15 am

Quoting ERAUMcDlover (Reply 6):
Anybody have any thoughts on a new livery or fleet changes?

I'd expect fleet simplification (mainline) as already started and discussed here:

Immediate Future:
T7
763/764
757
738
M88

Long-term:
T7
783/788/789
738/739ER
E170/190

As for livery? They'll keep this for a little while. The next one will have the Widget back on the tail  Wink hehe.
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
fewsolarge
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RE: What Can We Expect From DL After The BK?

Sat Nov 05, 2005 6:09 am

More advice than prediction:


  • Fleet simplification as mentioned above, with 777/787/737NG as core.
  • Launch aggressive Transpacific expansion from ATL/JFK.
  • Replace T1/T2 at JFK.
  • Continue phase 2 Latin American/Caribbean expansion from JFK.
  • Penetrate Middle East and India with nonstops.
  • Add point-to-point international flying from BOS, MCO, FLL, TPA.
  • Fly to all California airports from SLC.
  • Make ATL premier US gateway to Africa.
  • Grow LAX into JFK-style hub (again) *sigh*.
  • Relocate Midwest hub to larger O&D market, i.e.: DTW or Peotone.
  • Remove galleys from selected aircraft configurations.
 
jetdeltamsy
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RE: What Can We Expect From DL After The BK?

Sat Nov 05, 2005 6:41 am

Quoting ERAUMcDlover (Thread starter):
Fleet
-New paint job,

I think it's highly probably that we'll move towards an all Boeing fleet...the 737 family, the 757/767 family and the 777. I don't think we'll go with the 787 as the company will need to spend all possible resources on replacing the MD's.

A new livery would probably happen, although the company has spent a fortune the last 10 years modifying one livery after another. I think NWA and AA's approach to using low-cost liveries, ones that don't require full paint jobs, would be prudent. Finding a livery and sticking to it would also save money.

Quoting ERAUMcDlover (Thread starter):
Service/Routes

The days of flying people "from anywhere to anywhere" must end. We simply can't afford it anymore. We should rely much more on our alliance partners to provide service in markets where we cannot make money.

Personally I think the JFK hub may be at risk. With Skyteam partner Continental operating a profitable international network from Newark, it doesn't make sense to me for Delta maintain JFK at its current level. Of course the alliance would need to be pretty much cast in stone so we wouldn't be stuck if Continental pulled out of Skyteam. We should re-deploy those JFK resources to Atlanta and dramatically increase international service from there. Most markets that currently feed the international operations at JFK could easily be routed through Atlanta. Those that couldn't should be routed through Continental's Newark operation.

Salt Lake City should become more important to the Skyteam alliance as well. We need to get a lot more feed from Continental and Northwest at SLC. Unless the Skyteam partners start feeding much more traffic through SLC, I think the hub will eventually begin to shrink.

And I can expect to keep working until I'm about 80 years old since I won't have a retirement worth anything to live on!

My 2 cents. And before anyone flames me, remember the NONE of us KNOWS any more about what will happen than anyone else. This is just my opinion after working in this business for 25 years.

[Edited 2005-11-04 22:45:20]
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
Delta4eva
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RE: What Can We Expect From DL After The BK?

Sat Nov 05, 2005 6:46 am

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 9):
With Skyteam partner Continental operating a profitable international network from Newark, it doesn't make sense to me for Delta maintain JFK at its current level.

New York is big enough for the both of them. DL is making money off the Transatlantic flight from JFK, so they will not move those to ATL. Also, DL serves most of the destinations from both ATL and JFK.
FLY DELTA JETS
 
Kahala777
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RE: What Can We Expect From DL After The BK?

Sat Nov 05, 2005 7:05 am

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 9):
Personally I think the JFK hub may be at risk. With Skyteam partner Continental operating a profitable international network from Newark, it doesn't make sense to me for Delta maintain JFK at its current level. Of course the alliance would need to be pretty much cast in stone so we wouldn't be stuck if Continental pulled out of Skyteam. We should re-deploy those JFK resources to Atlanta and dramatically increase international service from there.

Is that how we do business these days? Do we just give up when another airline (Continental), wants the market. Delta Airlines cannot afford to give up on JFK at this point. JFK, has been a jewel for Delta Airlines over the years. JFK has an immense impact on Delta Airlines European markets.

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 9):
Salt Lake City should become more important to the Skyteam alliance as well. We need to get a lot more feed from Continental and Northwest at SLC. Unless the Skyteam partners start feeding much more traffic through SLC, I think the hub will eventually begin to shrink.

Time and time again... Delta Airlines has promised to grow Salt Lake City, much like United Airlines with Denver. Yet has to be seen of any major international flights from either airline, at either airport.

Quoting Fewsolarge (Reply 8):
Launch aggressive Transpacific expansion from ATL/JFK

To where? Delta Airlines over the years has pulled service to Hong Kong, Bangkok, Taipei, Fukuoka, Osaka, and Seoul. Why would an airline that failed in so many markets return to them?

Quoting Fewsolarge (Reply 8):
Replace T1/T2 at JFK

Why replace Termanil 1?

Quoting Fewsolarge (Reply 8):
Continue phase 2 Latin American/Caribbean expansion from JFK

And go head to head with the likes of Varig, American Airlines, and LAN?

Quoting Fewsolarge (Reply 8):
Penetrate Middle East and India with nonstops

This has been attempted before with service to Cairo, Riyadh, and Dubai!
Delta is better with the O/D markets ex FRA, CDG to India.

Quoting Fewsolarge (Reply 8):
Add point-to-point international flying from BOS, MCO, FLL, TPA

Why? Boston if any. Although Delta Airlines has yanked BOS-LGW over the years. Orlando, Ft. Lauderdale, and Tampa point to point international make business sense if Delta was a sole low fare airline. You are also forgetting that American Airlines has a very strong hold on Miami/Ft. Lauderdale international markets. If Delta wants to survive, the move to add point to point international from South Florida makes zero business sense.

Quoting Fewsolarge (Reply 8):
Fly to all California airports from SLC

Stockton, Lake Tahoe, Modesto, Bakersfield, Santa Rosa, Redding, Eureka, Crescent City, Carlsbad, Concord, and San Luis Obispo hardly warrant a demand for Salt Lake City flights.

Quoting Fewsolarge (Reply 8):
Make ATL premier US gateway to Africa

Sigh.... JFK has at current service to Accra, Casablanca, Dakar, Cape Town, Johannesburg, and Cairo. It is harldy possible for Delta Airlines to operate that many destinations without the addition of some serious cash into its fleet expansion.

Quoting Fewsolarge (Reply 8):
Grow LAX into JFK-style hub (again) *sigh*.

So that they can retract a plethora of flights yet again.. *sigh*

Quoting Fewsolarge (Reply 8):
Relocate Midwest hub to larger O&D market, i.e.: DTW or Peotone

And give up on?

Quoting Fewsolarge (Reply 8):
Remove galleys from selected aircraft configurations

At last check Delta Airlines was not aiming to be a LCC like US Airways after it will emerge from Bankruptcy.


KAHALA777
 
jetdeltamsy
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RE: What Can We Expect From DL After The BK?

Sat Nov 05, 2005 9:10 am

Quoting Delta4eva (Reply 10):
DL is making money off the Transatlantic flight from JFK,

How do you know? Where do you get your information from? The company does not break out profitability for JFK, at least not externally.

If you have inside information, please share it with us.

If you don't, stick with what you know.
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
jetdeltamsy
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RE: What Can We Expect From DL After The BK?

Sat Nov 05, 2005 9:30 am

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 11):
Delta Airlines has promised to grow Salt Lake City, much like United Airlines with Denver. Yet has to be seen of any major international flights from either airline,

If there was any money to be made at SLC with traffic that Delta could generate, the hub would definitely grow. It has grown a little bit domestically, but I think this is an effort to increase traffic, which isn't happening. If we could get NWA and CO on board to feed more traffic through SLC, we might be able to grow there profitably.

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 11):
Do we just give up when another airline (Continental), wants the market. Delta Airlines cannot afford to give up on JFK at this point.

I agree that it would be a sad day if we pulled back JFK like we did DFW. These alliances are, among other things, to help reduce the cost of serving our customers through cooperation. My point is that we should fully exploit these relationships (alliances) to our maximum benefit. In a sense, Continental is winning the battle in New York because they are profitable. Delta is not. We can't continue business as usual. The company is losing billions of dollars from operations and radical, unprecedented changes are needed. That's all I'm saying.

I read your stuff a lot and you always make sense. We just see this differently.
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
Kahala777
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RE: What Can We Expect From DL After The BK?

Sat Nov 05, 2005 9:45 am

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 12):
How do you know? Where do you get your information from? The company does not break out profitability for JFK, at least not externally

Are we to assume that Delta has added:

JFK-VCE
JFK-TXL

Are we to assume that Delta is adding:

JFK-ACA
JFK-CZM
JFK-SJD
JFK-MAN
JFK-DUB-SNN
JFK-PRG

Are we to assume that Delta is increasing:

JFK-FCO

Are we to assume that Delta is rumored to add:

JFK-LED
JFK-WAW
JFK-KBP


Just for the fun of it?



KAHALA777
 
jetdeltamsy
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RE: What Can We Expect From DL After The BK?

Sat Nov 05, 2005 10:00 am

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 14):
Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 12):
How do you know? Where do you get your information from? The company does not break out profitability for JFK, at least not externally

Are we to assume that Delta has added



Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 14):
Are we to assume that Delta is increasing:



Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 14):
Are we to assume that Delta is rumored to add:



Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 14):
Just for the fun of it?

What we can "assume" is that the company is engaged in a desperate attempt to increase revenue. There are no guarantees of any profit from any of these increases in international flying.

The system is losing billions on an operating basis every year,and has been since 2001. I think it's a pretty safe bet that we're not operating profitably anywhere in the system.

You got out of the industry. Smart move. Some of us are stuck in it for the duration. We've got to see profitability fast.
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
Kahala777
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RE: What Can We Expect From DL After The BK?

Sat Nov 05, 2005 10:02 am

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 13):
Continental is winning the battle in New York because they are profitable

Well there are a number of holes in Continetal Airlines network that Delta Airlines can fill. They include, but are not limited to:

JFK-Athens
JFK-Istanbul
JFK-Moscow
JFK-Nice
JFK-Venice

If Delta Airlines yanks JFK from the system, what will become of all the SkyMiles members in the New York/New England region? Why would a person want to fly BOS-ATL-SVO, BOS-ATL-MAD, BOS-ATL-MXP? For Delta to pull its JFK schedule would in fact be a severely misplaced judgement. Of course we all thought that Delta was not going to hang onto JFK, and the old Pan Am routes as long as they have either.

KAHALA777
 
jetdeltamsy
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RE: What Can We Expect From DL After The BK?

Sat Nov 05, 2005 10:21 am

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 16):
If Delta Airlines yanks JFK from the system, what will become of all the SkyMiles members in the New York/New England region?

If flying to Europe, they could fly our Skyteam partner Continental and accrue mileage as usual.

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 16):
Why would a person want to fly BOS-ATL-SVO, BOS-ATL-MAD, BOS-ATL-MXP?

They wouldn't. That's why we would feed them to our Skyteam partner at Newark.
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
Alitalia744
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RE: What Can We Expect From DL After The BK?

Sat Nov 05, 2005 10:26 am

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 17):
If flying to Europe, they could fly our Skyteam partner Continental and accrue mileage as usual.

Some of us Loyal Delta customers in the New York region detest Continental Airlines and would like Delta to maintain their solid New York City operations.

Thanks.
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
Kahala777
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RE: What Can We Expect From DL After The BK?

Sat Nov 05, 2005 10:27 am

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 15):
You got out of the industry. Smart move. Some of us are stuck in it for the duration. We've got to see profitability fast.

My best wishes for anyone in the industry at this point. Everyday, for everyone in the industry seems to be like a storm of epic means. Credit should be given to those who hang in there.

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 17):
They wouldn't. That's why we would feed them to our Skyteam partner at Newark.

How would Continental make up for the lost capacity on routes like:

JFK-FCO
JFK-MXP
JFK-SVO
JFK-ATH
JFK-IST
JFK-VCE
JFK-MAD
JFK-BCN
JFK-FRA
JFK-NCE
JFK-CDG
JFK-AMS

Wouldnt SkyMiles take a huge hit?

Wouldnt the most loyal of Delta fliers in the New York area take a huge hit?

KAHALA777
 
jetdeltamsy
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RE: What Can We Expect From DL After The BK?

Sat Nov 05, 2005 10:48 am

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 18):
Some of us Loyal Delta customers in the New York region detest Continental Airlines and would like Delta to maintain their solid New York City operations.

Bless you. And we probably will. I just think that it is something that, if unprofitable, should be looked at as being done differently.

We appreciate your business very, very much.

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 19):
Wouldnt the most loyal of Delta fliers in the New York area take a huge hit?

Yea, they would. The backlash would probably be terrible.

But if we don't start making money fast, there isn't going to be a Delta for anyone to fly.

Excellent debate, Kahala. Best wishes.
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
Kahala777
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RE: What Can We Expect From DL After The BK?

Sat Nov 05, 2005 11:12 am

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 20):
Excellent debate, Kahala. Best wishes

Thank you, you as well!

Just to let you know a few things.. My first flight was on a Delta Airlines 727 from Savannah to Atlanta, connecting to a L1011 to San Francisco. So for me I am more than fond of Delta Airlines. A lot of credit should be given to Delta Airlines over the years. Delta was such an innovative and pioneering airline, I wish for them only the best.

In New York City, many people have grown more than fond of Delta Airlines. It has replaced Pan Am at JFK for a great many people. I dont think JFK would be what it is today without the post-Pan Am Delta Airlines infusion. Delta has given a lot to New York City over the years. And in saying so has been a key player at both La Guardia and JFK. Many people would not go to New Jersey to fly. Especially those that live on Long Island, and in CT. And folks like me that call the Upper East Side home.

Delta Airlines will be facing a good many hurdles. However, truth be known, Delta will prevail. I am not one to say the end is near. Delta Airlines, has much to much to just dwindle away in the middle of the night. It is an airline that is vital in a great many cities, and to a great many states. Delta is not an ATA, America West, or US Airways. Delta is a critical part of North American aviation. Over the years I would expect cuts to be made. Least of which JFK international reductions.

KAHALA777
 
Alitalia744
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RE: What Can We Expect From DL After The BK?

Sat Nov 05, 2005 11:12 am

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 20):
Bless you. And we probably will. I just think that it is something that, if unprofitable, should be looked at as being done differently.

We appreciate your business very, very much.

And I agree, every piece of business needs to be looked at and if unprofitable, dumped. But at the same time, Delta doesn't need to fly to every damn city in the country from Atlanta, many with costly CRJ service...something also to look at.

As for appreciating my business? I wouldn't fly any other carrier (except maybe AF and AZ when in Europe) and even go out of my way sometimes to fly Delta jets...
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
jumbojet
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RE: What Can We Expect From DL After The BK?

Sat Nov 05, 2005 11:20 am

Not exactly related, but read in today's paper, which would be the Palm Beach paper, that beginning in 2007, Delta is going to charge their platinum elite members to belong to crown room clubs. They say it is keeping in line with other major airlines. i don't think its such a good idea to go after Delta's most loyal customers by charging them a fee to belong to crown room. If your Platinum, your spending enough as it is each year on tickets, hopefully Delta reconsiders.
 
kanebear
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RE: What Can We Expect From DL After The BK?

Sat Nov 05, 2005 11:47 am

Quoting Jumbojet (Reply 23):
Not exactly related, but read in today's paper, which would be the Palm Beach paper, that beginning in 2007, Delta is going to charge their platinum elite members to belong to crown room clubs. They say it is keeping in line with other major airlines. i don't think its such a good idea to go after Delta's most loyal customers by charging them a fee to belong to crown room. If your Platinum, your spending enough as it is each year on tickets, hopefully Delta reconsiders.

This one I happen to agree with DL on. NO OTHER carrier includes club membership in their top tier. They do discount that yearly membership but they don't waive the fee.
 
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litz
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RE: What Can We Expect From DL After The BK?

Sat Nov 05, 2005 2:48 pm

Quoting Kanebear (Reply 24):
Quoting Jumbojet (Reply 23):
Not exactly related, but read in today's paper, which would be the Palm Beach paper, that beginning in 2007, Delta is going to charge their platinum elite members to belong to crown room clubs. They say it is keeping in line with other major airlines. i don't think its such a good idea to go after Delta's most loyal customers by charging them a fee to belong to crown room. If your Platinum, your spending enough as it is each year on tickets, hopefully Delta reconsiders.

This one I happen to agree with DL on. NO OTHER carrier includes club membership in their top tier. They do discount that yearly membership but they don't waive the fee.

Not to belabor the offtopic point ... but does anyone with gold or plat status actually PAY for crc membership?

I imagine they do exactly what I do : spend skymiles.

Heck, we get so darned many of 'em just off flights (and if you have the amex card you get gobs more) ... it's only 50k miles, after all.

- litz
 
Lono
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RE: What Can We Expect From DL After The BK?

Sat Nov 05, 2005 3:25 pm

For all my friends at DL... DL will raise from ashes to be the leader in the industry once again....!!! GO DL!!!
Wally Bird Ruled the Skys!
 
jumbojet
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RE: What Can We Expect From DL After The BK?

Sat Nov 05, 2005 5:07 pm

Quoting Lono (Reply 26):
For all my friends at DL... DL will raise from ashes to be the leader in the industry once again....!!! GO DL!!!

agreed, pretty certain about that
 
panamair
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RE: What Can We Expect From DL After The BK?

Sat Nov 05, 2005 5:24 pm

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 9):
Personally I think the JFK hub may be at risk. With Skyteam partner Continental operating a profitable international network from Newark, it doesn't make sense to me for Delta maintain JFK at its current level. Of course the alliance would need to be pretty much cast in stone so we wouldn't be stuck if Continental pulled out of Skyteam. We should re-deploy those JFK resources to Atlanta and dramatically increase international service from there. Most markets that currently feed the international operations at JFK could easily be routed through Atlanta. Those that couldn't should be routed through Continental's Newark operation.

I don't think DL knows what to do with JFK. On the one hand, the NYC market is a hugely lucrative market with tremendous O&D that DL cannot afford to give up on. On the other hand, I believe they are not making money at JFK. However, relying on CO for NYC is not very prudent at all as CO has proven time and again that it is not a very cooperative partner in Skyteam (at least relative to NW, AF, KL). CO is willing to go it alone if need be (e.g., they did not want to be part of the transatlantic ATI recently filed by AF/KL/NW/DL/OK/AZ) and has opted not to join a proposed cooperative venture announced by AF (to include DL, NW, KL) where all revenues and costs on transatlantic flights are split equally amongst the four.

Overall, JFK is still too important a gateway to give up on. Domestic at JFK has always been a problem but it is beginning to gain some credibility as a domestic airport as well (thanks to B6). As JFK improves on this front, DL could gain as well because domestic flights there would no longer just be to feed international (always an issue with Pan Am) and may gain some valuable O&D as well.

In the long, long term, once DL/NW emerge, I think you may see much closer cooperation (at the behest of AF/KL), short of a merger amongst the four. With the relaxing of foreign control over US airlines (as proposed by the US government lately in the EU-US Open Skies talks), it would be conceivable that AF/KL may even invest in a rejuvenated DL/NW if they can have some control over routes, fleet, marketing, etc. If that were the case, JFK will not go away.
 
RobertS975
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RE: What Can We Expect From DL After The BK?

Sat Nov 05, 2005 9:14 pm

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 16):
If Delta Airlines yanks JFK from the system, what will become of all the SkyMiles members in the New York/New England region? Why would a person want to fly BOS-ATL-SVO, BOS-ATL-MAD, BOS-ATL-MXP? For Delta to pull its JFK schedule would in fact be a severely misplaced judgement. Of course we all thought that Delta was not going to hang onto JFK, and the old Pan Am routes as long as they have either.

Is that because all of us BOS originating passengers love to fly down to JFK in those RJs and ride those 40 year old school buses across the tarmac?
 
srbmod
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RE: What Can We Expect From DL After The BK?

Sat Nov 05, 2005 10:15 pm

Quoting Iloveboeing (Reply 5):

I think Delta is a great airline and has good aircraft (especially the 738s with 36-inch pitch), but I do not approve of how they charge extremely high fares into airports like AVL and TRI.

It's called having a monopoly. They can get away with charging these fares because the chances of FL coming onto these routes are slim and none for the forseeable future. Even FL has done similar pricing on routes they were the only airline on. Most people will pay the higher fare rather than drive several hours to save a few bucks. In using AVL and TRI as references, these two airports are close enough to TYS that folks can either fly out of TRI or AVL or drive to TYS if the fares are lower there. ATL-TYS is another monopoly route for DL, as there was enough DL loyality there to cause FL to drop the city due to poor loads (The mail revenue is what kept FL on the route as long as they did).
 
Kahala777
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RE: What Can We Expect From DL After The BK?

Sun Nov 06, 2005 12:24 am

Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 29):
Is that because all of us BOS originating passengers love to fly down to JFK in those RJs and ride those 40 year old school buses across the tarmac?

No it is because Boston does not have the O/D numbers to support nonstop flights to cities such as:

Barcelona
Berlin
Brussels
Istanbul
Madrid
Moscow
Nice
Prague
Venice

KAHALA777
 
luv2fly
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RE: What Can We Expect From DL After The BK?

Sun Nov 06, 2005 1:09 am

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 21):
Delta is not an ATA, America West, or US Airways. Delta is a critical part of North American aviation. Over the years I would expect cuts to be made. Least of which JFK international reductions.

People said the same for PA and TW, so think long and hard for the last time you saw one of there planes flying the skies. In business no one/company is not indispensable.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
Kahala777
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RE: What Can We Expect From DL After The BK?

Sun Nov 06, 2005 1:14 am

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 32):
People said the same for PA and TW, so think long and hard for the last time you saw one of there planes flying the skies. In business no one/company is not indispensable.

True, but think long and hard about Delta Airlines. If anyone air is critical to any group of cities in the United States it is Delta Airlines.

KAHALA777
 
luv2fly
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RE: What Can We Expect From DL After The BK?

Sun Nov 06, 2005 1:53 am

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 33):
True, but think long and hard about Delta Airlines. If anyone air is critical to any group of cities in the United States it is Delta Airlines.

Again no one company is not indispensable, not matter what spin you attempt to put on it. Simple fact is again, people were saying the same thing about Eastern also, and look they are gone and we have managed to go one with out them.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
N908AW
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RE: What Can We Expect From DL After The BK?

Sun Nov 06, 2005 2:52 am

Here's what I'm thinkin---

1. Rebuilding CVG with more competitive fares. Whether or not they partner with NW, they need pax to fly them more than on a codeshare airline. CVG could pull flyers from a significant distance if they had the right fares, and the connection opportunities would flourish.
2. Begin serving the Midwest some more, especially if NW is still trying to pull out of their tailspin. A more successful option would be to connect MN,WI,IA,ND,SD,IL,MI cities with SLC. Airports up here are dying for a western link.
3. Begin to replace the 732s.
4. Stop relying solely on ATL. DL seemed to have build its expenses in a corrupt manner there because as soon as FL entered, their finances were demolished. If they can add capacity to CVG and SLC, they might possibly return to profitibility.
'Cause you're on ATA again, and on ATA, you're on vacation!
 
Kahala777
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RE: What Can We Expect From DL After The BK?

Sun Nov 06, 2005 3:29 am

Personal thoughts for Delta Airlines by year 2012.

-ATL domestic capacity to be reduced. ATL internatonal schedule to be beefed up. Cities like Venice, Barcelona, Madrid, Nice, and Berlin served solely from Atlanta. ATL to gain service to Cairo, Dubai, Osaka, Delhi, and Lagos-Johannesburg.

-BOS added to roster of international gateways. Destinations to be served London, Manchester, Birmingham, Glasgow, Dublin, Shannon, and Santo Domingo. BOS to gain service to SEA, DFW, PHX, and SAN via the 738.

-CVG reduced schedule to a sole domestic operation with the exception of long haul service to Honolulu, and Paris.

-DCA flight schedule reduced to routes such as ATL, LGA, BOS, CVG, SLC.

-FLL flights schedule reduced to routes such as ATL, JFK, LGA, BOS, LAX, CVG, and SLC.

-JFK reduced international flying schedule. JFK international flying to be limited only to Mexico City, Santo Domingo, Paris, Amsterdam, Rome, Milan, Frankfurt, Athens, Moscow, Istanbul.

-LAX to regain international flying. Cities served internationally would include Osaka, Nagoya, and Hong Kong. Added Hawaii service to include Kona. Added Pacific service to include Nadi, Papaeete, Auckland, and Sydney. LAX to regain service to SMF, SFO, PDX, SEA, SAN, LAS, PHX. All via the ERJ-190. Exception being SFO, LAS, SEA via 738.

-MCO flight schedule reduced to routes such as ATL, JFK, LGA, BOS, LAX, LAS, CVG, and SLC.

-RDU flight schedule reduced to routes such as ATL, JFK, BOS, CVG, SLC.

-SFO to lose Hawaii service.

-SLC grown to include an expanded schedule of flights to include Paris, and Seoul.

:Boeing 777-200 used solely for Asian flights. High demand Trans-Con.

:Boeing 767-400 used for European flights ex Atlanta, and New York. High demand Trans-Con.

:Boeing 767-300 used for Hawaiian, European flights ex CVG, SLC, BOS. High demand Florida/Las Vegas.

:Boeing 757-200 used for West Coast to Hawaii flights. Trans-Con flying ex ATL, JFK. In addition used for international service from BOS.

:Boeing 737-800 used for bulk of medium-range flying ex BOS, JFK, ATL, SLC, CVG, LAX. Also used as equipment for BOS, JFK, LGA, CVG to Florida.

:ERJ-190 used for Intra-West Coast service ex LAX, SLC. In addition used for bulk of MidWest/East Coast flying from SLC. Used for bulk of East Coast/Mid West/South flights from JFK.

:ERJ-170 used for Shuttle ex LGA, BOS, DCA. In addition used for bulk of East Coast/Mid West/South flights from CVG, BOS.


KAHALA777
 
jumbojet
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RE: What Can We Expect From DL After The BK?

Sun Nov 06, 2005 9:26 am

Hate to start a new topic, but my question is this. Does anyone have any idea which delta flights are going to lose the T7? So far, the scheduling for April, a month after ATL - TLV service starts with the T7, shows all the present T7's still being used.
 
fewsolarge
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RE: What Can We Expect From DL After The BK?

Sun Nov 06, 2005 9:39 am

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 11):
Why replace Termanil 1?

Good catch, yes, I meant Terminal 2/3. Thanks.
 
panamair
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RE: What Can We Expect From DL After The BK?

Sun Nov 06, 2005 12:13 pm

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 36):
Cities like Venice, Barcelona, Madrid, Nice, and Berlin served solely from Atlanta. ATL to gain service to Cairo, Dubai, Osaka, Delhi, and Lagos-Johannesburg.



Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 36):
JFK reduced international flying schedule. JFK international flying to be limited only to Mexico City, Santo Domingo, Paris, Amsterdam, Rome, Milan, Frankfurt, Athens, Moscow, Istanbul.

Cities like NCE, BCN, and VCE make more sense to maintain from JFK rather than ATL. You're missing out on a huge chunk of traffic which originates in the Northeast (especially JFK-NCE) if you route things through ATL. Notice that even today, BCN and NCE (from 2006) are only served from JFK during the weak winter months instead of from ATL.

Also, by 2012, DL could very well be at LHR by then from both JFK and ATL.
 
nonrevman
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RE: What Can We Expect From DL After The BK?

Mon Nov 07, 2005 1:08 am

Quoting N908AW (Reply 35):
4. Stop relying solely on ATL. DL seemed to have build its expenses in a corrupt manner there because as soon as FL entered, their finances were demolished. If they can add capacity to CVG and SLC, they might possibly return to profitibility.

It is about time someone brought this up. I think putting all of the eggs in the Atlanta basket will cause DL a world of hurt in the long run. I do not intend to slam either DL or the city of Atlanta, but let's face it, more people are doing everything in their power they can to avoid this overcongested hub. This hub can barely handle itself today, let alone in the future when there are even more flights through there. My 5 trips through ATL in 2005 have convinced me to avoid the city at all costs. In all but one trip, there was a serious delay of some sort. If you get a thunderstorm in that city, it literally shuts the whole airline down. I honestly would pay more money for a ticket on another airline just to avoid conncecting there. It is not because I have anything against Delta, I just simply would like to get to my destination the same day I intended to get there. Last summer had a large number of days subject to irregular operations, and I wish you all could see the looks on the faces of our fellow passengers (and myself and my wife) when they found out that they were losing entire days of their vacation AND there were no more hotel rooms in ATL.

My point is, you need to balance your network and not rely on one city to be successful. Really, what is the fascination with ATL? One thing is for sure--if I meant to be a one hub airline, I would pick a hub that is least likely to be prone to bad weather. ATL is definitely not it.
 
Kahala777
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RE: What Can We Expect From DL After The BK?

Mon Nov 07, 2005 6:29 am

Quoting Panamair (Reply 39):
Notice that even today, BCN and NCE (from 2006) are only served from JFK during the weak winter months instead of from ATL.

Is that why Atlanta is going to gain Delta Airlines service to Venice?

Quoting Panamair (Reply 39):
Cities like NCE, BCN, and VCE make more sense to maintain from JFK rather than ATL.

Nice, Barcelona, and Venice do not have sufficient gains to service daily year-round. One idea that I have heard is being tossed around is the following routings:

JFK-CDG-NCE
763 (At current DL arrives CDG from JFK about 730a, and departs at 12n)

JFK-MXP-VCE
763 (At current DL arrives MXP from JFK about 8a, and departs at 12n)

JFK-MAD-BCN
763 (This is already done if I am not mistaken during slow seasons)

Quoting Panamair (Reply 39):
Also, by 2012, DL could very well be at LHR by then from both JFK and ATL

From New York, very unlikely the route is way over serviced. Proof can be seen in the way that United Airlines has ducked from 3 to 1 in number of flights in past years. More so, United Airlines dumped Newark to Heathrow in recent years as well.

KAHALA777
 
ERAUMcDlover
Topic Author
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RE: What Can We Expect From DL After The BK?

Mon Nov 07, 2005 6:56 am

I just saw an MD take off from here in DAB.....man, I hate to think of the day with DL no longer having them though....what a climb out....what a noise...the smoke...its just......breathtaking, seriously. I always thought the t-tail, rear engine planes, just looked sleaker and faster..... i will admit, winglets do make the 73s look pretty fast too.
I hope boeing considers a super MD for the next 73 though......
speakink of winglets, any news on the DL fleet for winglets? 76/75/73??
DL, what a classy lady....Mad Dogs...a classy plane.....USA...just the best all around
 
panamair
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RE: What Can We Expect From DL After The BK?

Mon Nov 07, 2005 7:44 am

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 41):
From New York, very unlikely the route is way over serviced. Proof can be seen in the way that United Airlines has ducked from 3 to 1 in number of flights in past years. More so, United Airlines dumped Newark to Heathrow in recent years as well.

Are you kidding? DL has publicly stated over and over again that they want to have JFK-LHR access (and in the last round of talks with the UK, DL had even asked for 3 daily r/ts for JFK-LHR). Unlike UA, DL has a big presence at JFK; in fact, JFK-LHR is the only missing piece of an otherwise comprehensive transatlantic network. Having JFK-LHR would also enable DL to secure its share of the lucrative corporate contracts traffic out of the NYC area since it already has such deals for its other transatlantic flights.

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 41):
Is that why Atlanta is going to gain Delta Airlines service to Venice?

Doubtful ATL-VCE will last for the winter. VCE though is a stronger preforming market than the other typical 'cruise' destinations (as evidenced by JFK-VCE only going down to 5X this winter instead of 3X for JFK-NCE, etc.)

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 41):
Nice, Barcelona, and Venice do not have sufficient gains to service daily year-round. One idea that I have heard is being tossed around is the following routings:

Correct, although is DL interested in making these year-round or are they satisfied with keeping these on reduced frequencies during the winter? In any case, routing them through ATL is not going to make them a year-round service either.
 
Kahala777
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RE: What Can We Expect From DL After The BK?

Mon Nov 07, 2005 7:54 am

Quoting Panamair (Reply 43):
Doubtful ATL-VCE will last for the winter

It is starting late Spring 2006 - It has yet to be seen. Be assured of one thing, the connecting possibilities from Atlanta are endless. Look at how US Airways did with their PHL-VCE. It was remarked as being one of their heftiest money making seasonal routes.


KAHALA777
 
ERAUMcDlover
Topic Author
Posts: 73
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RE: What Can We Expect From DL After The BK?

Mon Nov 07, 2005 10:45 pm

Does SLC even offer that much? I haven't been there and I don't know much about it, but would DL be better off centering their west coast hub, somewhere else,and if so where?
DL, what a classy lady....Mad Dogs...a classy plane.....USA...just the best all around