Stas
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China Eastern A343 Makes Emergency Landing At YVR.

Thu Nov 03, 2005 11:48 am

http://www.news1130.com/news/local/article.jsp?content=20051102_191534_3816

Quote:

Local News
Chinese airliner makes emergency landing at YVR
November 02, 2005 - 4:15 pm
By: Claudia Kwan

A tense situation has ended in relief for passengers aboard a plane circling Vancouver International Airport. A China Eastern Airbus A340-300 has made an emergency landing with 273 people aboard including 16 crew members. The plane took off just before two o'clock from YVR when crew members discovered an engine problem. The decision was made to circle over Vancouver Island to burn off some of the fuel then make an emergency landing. A plane carrying this many people destined for an international location is quite large and weight is a crucial issue when trying to land. The airport says the next step is to let the passengers off the plane and check out the engine to see what the problem is. If they can fix it, they'll just put the passengers back on the plane and send them off to Shanghai later tonight. If not, then the passengers will have to be put up in nearby hotels and then send them off in another plane tomorrow.


[Edited 2005-11-03 03:55:05]
 
Boeing744
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RE: China Eastern A343 Makes Emergency Landing At YVR.

Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:14 pm

Wow, good thing everything turned out alright! Too bad it didn't land at YYJ Wink I thought I heard a jet at low altitude a couple times today. Usually only turboprops fly over my house. Could that be this?
 
MarshalN
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RE: China Eastern A343 Makes Emergency Landing At YVR.

Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:20 pm

Hmm, that's possible, since I'd imagine they ahve to be shoved off somewhere in a holding pattern, but clearly the engine problem isn't serious enough for them to dump fuel and land immediately.
 
N754PR
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RE: China Eastern A343 Makes Emergency Landing At YVR.

Thu Nov 03, 2005 7:23 pm

Well, One engine out is not a big deal on modern jets.... seems the press made this into a big story once again.
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gkirk
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RE: China Eastern A343 Makes Emergency Landing At YVR.

Thu Nov 03, 2005 7:26 pm

Ground all A340s! Bloody dangerous things!
 stirthepot  duck 
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jush
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RE: China Eastern A343 Makes Emergency Landing At YVR.

Thu Nov 03, 2005 7:26 pm

Well the story isn't that big and the press while making it bigger than it is didn't make it that big. So peeeleassse don't bash the press here once again.

Regards
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HAWK21M
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RE: China Eastern A343 Makes Emergency Landing At YVR.

Thu Nov 03, 2005 7:46 pm

Quoting Stas (Thread starter):
The decision was made to circle over Vancouver Island to burn off some of the fuel then make an emergency landing

Why no Fuel Dumping.
regds
MEL
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A342
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RE: China Eastern A343 Makes Emergency Landing At YVR.

Thu Nov 03, 2005 9:41 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 6):
Why no Fuel Dumping.

Why should you damage the environment when it´s not necessary ? As it has been said, 1 engine out on the A340 is not a big deal.
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
ANother
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RE: China Eastern A343 Makes Emergency Landing At YVR.

Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:28 pm

Quote:
Why no Fuel Dumping.

I don't believe any Airbus aircraft are capable of dumping fuel. Any pilots / mechanics / engineers out there?
 
Rotate
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RE: China Eastern A343 Makes Emergency Landing At YVR.

Thu Nov 03, 2005 11:06 pm

Quoting ANother (Reply 8):
I don't believe any Airbus aircraft are capable of dumping fuel. Any pilots / mechanics / engineers out there?

Excuse me? what do you think how fuel then should be get rif of in emergency cases? of course it is possibel to dump fuel ....



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ANother
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RE: China Eastern A343 Makes Emergency Landing At YVR.

Thu Nov 03, 2005 11:16 pm

Thanks for the clarification (but isn't that second picutre a L1011?). One of my colleagues mentioned that airbus couldn't dump fuel - and I guess I misunderstood.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: China Eastern A343 Makes Emergency Landing At YVR.

Thu Nov 03, 2005 11:29 pm

Quoting ANother (Reply 10):
One of my colleagues mentioned that airbus couldn't dump fuel - and I guess I misunderstood.

Your Colleague was probably talking of the A320 Family.
regds
MEL
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bkkair
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RE: China Eastern A343 Makes Emergency Landing At YVR.

Fri Nov 04, 2005 12:42 am

Don't MU fly the A346 on this route? I doubt it was a 343.

Same thing happened to MU586 (a A346) on 6 Oct from LAX. Dumped fuel right after takoff from LAX and landed. The flight was then delayed until the next day and finally cancelled completely.
 
buckfifty
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RE: China Eastern A343 Makes Emergency Landing At YVR.

Fri Nov 04, 2005 1:06 am

Only on the larger Airbuses have a fuel jettison system. Most 320's and even 330's won't have a fuel jettison system. However, it is standard equipment on most 340's.

It really depends on the potential routes the aircraft is destined to fly. A fuel jettison system adds weight and complexity to the aircraft, and costs money. If it can be deleted, it will. Overweight landings, while not performed regularly, usually will not damage the aircraft in any significant way. Most likely you may see a burst tire or two if the landing was hard, other than that, it isn't a big drama.
 
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AirPacific747
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RE: China Eastern A343 Makes Emergency Landing At YVR.

Fri Nov 04, 2005 4:20 am

Quoting A342 (Reply 7):
Why should you damage the environment when it´s not necessary ? As it has been said, 1 engine out on the A340 is not a big deal.

It does not necessarily damaga the environment more than flying around for hours. If you dump it at a high alttitude, it will vaporize before hitting the ground.
 
A342
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RE: China Eastern A343 Makes Emergency Landing At YVR.

Fri Nov 04, 2005 5:06 am

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 14):
If you dump it at a high alttitude, it will vaporize before hitting the ground.

IF is the word here. Do you want to climb to a high altitude with an engine out ? Can you do it with a full aircraft ? Not even allowed for twins as there wouldn´t be a backup for cabin bleed air. As someone reported, it circled in a low altidude.
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
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AirPacific747
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RE: China Eastern A343 Makes Emergency Landing At YVR.

Fri Nov 04, 2005 5:14 am

Quoting A342 (Reply 15):
IF is the word here. Do you want to climb to a high altitude with an engine out ? Can you do it with a full aircraft ? Not even allowed for twins as there wouldn´t be a backup for cabin bleed air. As someone reported, it circled in a low altidude.

True, but I dont think you have to be that high up, and the A340 should be able to climb with 3 engines. So what if you are 5000 feet higher up? if the engines go out, you can glide down and you have more time to land.
 
Boeing744
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RE: China Eastern A343 Makes Emergency Landing At YVR.

Fri Nov 04, 2005 5:28 am

Quoting Bkkair (Reply 12):
Don't MU fly the A346 on this route? I doubt it was a 343.

They switch it often to a 343.
 
cloudyapple
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RE: China Eastern A343 Makes Emergency Landing At YVR.

Fri Nov 04, 2005 5:51 am

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 16):
if the engines go out, you can glide down and you have more time to land.

Most laughable comment award~

Raw hydrocarbon is just as bad as exhaust carbon dioxide. It's much more about the danger posed than environmental damage when the dumped fuel reaches the ground. If you choose to circle over land and you're over populated area at low altitude you never dump fuel but only to burn it off. When you are over water that doesn't matter but dumping fuel is simply quicker. Remember you have a load of anxious passengers in the back OEI.

Aside, you NEVER climb high with a broken engine. OEI is fine on a quad but there is a risk of the remaining ones flaming out for the same issue.

Just think about the BA saga.
A310/A319/20/21/A332/3/A343/6/A388/B732/5/7/8/B742/S/4/B752/B763/B772/3/W/E145/J41/MD11/83/90
 
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AirPacific747
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RE: China Eastern A343 Makes Emergency Landing At

Fri Nov 04, 2005 6:00 am

Quoting Cloudyapple (Reply 18):
Most laughable comment award~
Raw hydrocarbon is just as bad as exhaust carbon dioxide. It's much more about the danger posed than environmental damage when the dumped fuel reaches the ground. If you choose to circle over land and you're over populated area at low altitude you never dump fuel but only to burn it off. When you are over water that doesn't matter but dumping fuel is simply quicker. Remember you have a load of anxious passengers in the back OEI.


Aside, you NEVER climb high with a broken engine. OEI is fine on a quad but there is a risk of the remaining ones flaming out for the same issue.

Just think about the BA saga.

lol.. glad you are having fun. doesn't seem like you need much to amuse yourself. Guess your life must be pretty boring dont see the fun part about it myself lol.

please refer to what A342 wrote.

[Edited 2005-11-03 22:01:23]

[Edited 2005-11-03 22:02:14]

[Edited 2005-11-03 22:05:46]

[Edited 2005-11-03 22:07:50]
 
MarshalN
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RE: China Eastern A343 Makes Emergency Landing At YVR.

Fri Nov 04, 2005 6:15 am

What sort of altittude can an A343 maintain with only 3 engines anyway? Just wondering

But yeah, it seemed like no biggie. Clearly the plane wasn't in any immediate danger (fire or that sort of thing) to warrant dumping fuel, so no reason to do it. Just sucks to be a pax in the back getting anxious though.

I seem to remember the MU flight from Britain (was it LHR) to PVG that had a tailstrike during takeoff. Now that's dangerous...

[Edited 2005-11-03 22:20:09]
 
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AirPacific747
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RE: China Eastern A343 Makes Emergency Landing At YVR.

Fri Nov 04, 2005 6:21 am

Quoting MarshalN (Reply 20):
What sort of altittude can an A343 maintain with only 3 engines anyway? Just wondering

But yeah, it seemed like no biggie. Clearly the plane wasn't in any immediate danger (fire or that sort of thing) to warrant dumping fuel, so no reason to do it. Just sucks to be a pax in the back getting anxious though.

I seem to remember the MU flight from Britain (was it LHR) to PVD that had a tailstrike during takeoff. Now that's dangerous...

I agree. I did not say that the plane should have dumped the fuel instead because I dont know every aspect of this particular case. I was just saying that dumping the fuel does not have to be more environmental damaging than flying around the same spot for hours. But from what I have read, it would seem like an option to dump the fuel also. I am pretty sure the A343 has to be able to climb on 3 engines in case of an emergency. For example of it gets engine problems while rotating, it has to be able to gain altittude with only 3 engines I would imagine.
Some people on this forum seem to misunderstand it.

[Edited 2005-11-03 22:22:25]
 
pictues
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RE: China Eastern A343 Makes Emergency Landing At YVR.

Fri Nov 04, 2005 6:28 am

they did dump fuel before landing.
 
ktachiya
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RE: China Eastern A343 Makes Emergency Landing At YVR.

Fri Nov 04, 2005 9:24 am

Quoting Bkkair (Reply 12):
Don't MU fly the A346 on this route? I doubt it was a 343

They keep on alternating on every other day. So somedays, it is the 600 while other days, its the 300.
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buckfifty
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RE: China Eastern A343 Makes Emergency Landing At YVR.

Fri Nov 04, 2005 9:54 am

I just saw the picture of the CX A346 in one of the replies above. That was interesting, I was called out from reserve to do the continuation of that flight.

Quoting Cloudyapple (Reply 18):
Aside, you NEVER climb high with a broken engine. OEI is fine on a quad but there is a risk of the remaining ones flaming out for the same issue.



Quoting A342 (Reply 15):
IF is the word here. Do you want to climb to a high altitude with an engine out ? Can you do it with a full aircraft ? Not even allowed for twins as there wouldn´t be a backup for cabin bleed air. As someone reported, it circled in a low altidude.

That depends on what happened with the engine, really. For example, if it was on fire, and with both bottles discharged, I would just turn and go back to the airport. There are so many scenarios, it depends on the situation and what the aircraft allows us to do in order to consider a dump. If fuel dumping is available, and we are over non-populated areas (or restricted dumping areas), then yes, we will dump the fuel to return. In this case, taking off out of Vancouver, there is nothing which will restrict us from dumping the fuel.

Also, there isn't an edict that says you cannot climb with an engine failure, that is quite a misnomer. Terrain, for example, is an issue. Vancouver and the surrounding area is quite mountainous, with MRA's which are well over 10000ft in some cases. You never put yourself in a situation with little or no options. The lower you are, the more hazards you present yourself, that's unless if you have a big hole in your fuselage, or if something was on fire.

A 340 with an engine out at max weight would probably make anywhere from FL210 to 270, depending on the conditions. The climb may be quite slow, but yes, the aircraft is certified to do it.

As for backup for cabin bleed air, that's not even an issue. In a quad, there is sufficient bleed sources to keep the aircraft pressurized, even if another engine goes out. As for a twin, you have no choice, because if you lost another engine, keeping the cabin pressurized is the least of your worries.
 
Cruiser
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RE: China Eastern A343 Makes Emergency Landing At YVR.

Fri Nov 04, 2005 12:00 pm

Quoting A342 (Reply 7):
Why should you damage the environment when it´s not necessary ?

I was under the impression that when a plane dumps fuel, the fuel vaporizes before hitting the ground. Thus, it would not really affect the environment. However, this doesn't make sense to me. Can anyone with actual knowledge explain this?

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AirPacific747
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RE: China Eastern A343 Makes Emergency Landing At YVR.

Fri Nov 04, 2005 1:04 pm

Quoting Cruiser (Reply 25):
I was under the impression that when a plane dumps fuel, the fuel vaporizes before hitting the ground. Thus, it would not really affect the environment. However, this doesn't make sense to me.

I am pretty sure that is the case. Well fuel for your car also vaporizes if you put some on the ground after a short time. I cant tell you the technical details behind it, though
 
ACDC8
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RE: China Eastern A343 Makes Emergency Landing At YVR.

Fri Nov 04, 2005 4:45 pm

Quoting Cruiser (Reply 25):
was under the impression that when a plane dumps fuel, the fuel vaporizes before hitting the ground. Thus, it would not really affect the environment. However, this doesn't make sense to me. Can anyone with actual knowledge explain this?

I couldn't tell you the actual science behind it myself either. However, it is an environmental issue. If the media reports that an aircraft dumped it's fuel, then you get most of the general public in a hysteria over the fact that it's environmentally unfriendly, regardless if the fuel evaporates or not.
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