wjcandee
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194AT Back In Business?

Fri Nov 04, 2005 8:17 am

Noticed an ATA L1011 leaving Cambridge today. Does this mean that 194AT made it out of its 1/2-C check at Marshall Aerospace and is back in business? I'm assuming that ATA badly needs it for military missions, particularly given its renewed focus on charter as a moneymaker.

Also, any further word on ship 162? I had thought that GAMCO was hoping to have it done by the end of October, but I understand that doing a D-check on an older airframe can be unpredictable...

Best,

Bill
 
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LN-MOW
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RE: 194AT Back In Business?

Fri Nov 04, 2005 8:37 am

That is correct, Bill. 194 left CBG today.
162 is now scheduled to leave AUH in 2-3 weeks - 163 should be 'enrolled' around Dec. 1.
- I am LN-MOW, and I approve this message.
 
474218
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RE: 194AT Back In Business?

Fri Nov 04, 2005 8:51 am

Good news, keep them flying!
 
wjcandee
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RE: 194AT Back In Business?

Fri Nov 04, 2005 9:19 am

Thanks for the update! By early Feb, y'all should have 3 significantly-more-reliable airframes (2 L10 and 1 767) on the military beat.
 
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TZTriStar500
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RE: 194AT Back In Business?

Fri Nov 04, 2005 11:45 am

The 767, which will most-likely be N601TZ, won't be on the ops spec until at least April/May. It has to go through a heavy C4 check, plus an ATA maintenance program bridge check, plus an interior reconfig to all one-class.

Also, N162AT is the first with new paint..."baby's gotta new dress"...haha.
35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
 
474218
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RE: 194AT Back In Business?

Fri Nov 04, 2005 12:11 pm

Quoting TZTristar500 (Reply 4):
Also, N162AT is the first with new paint..."baby's gotta new dress"...haha.

Christian,

Post a picture when you can.

Carl
 
TriStar500
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RE: 194AT Back In Business?

Fri Nov 04, 2005 5:19 pm

Quoting TZTristar500 (Reply 4):
Also, N162AT is the first with new paint..."baby's gotta new dress"...haha.

Is she going to be in full TZ colors or just in a basic version, like rumored before?
Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
 
wjcandee
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RE: 194AT Back In Business?

Fri Nov 04, 2005 5:21 pm

Quoting TZTristar500 (Reply 4):
It has to go through a heavy C4 check

Any word yet on where that will be done? Is the lessor taking care of that before delivery to ATA for the bridge check? Also, how does seniority affect flight deck crews on that aircraft? In other words, will folks flying the L1011 now be trained for the 767, or will current 757 pilots just be given differences training, or is that too simplistic a question? (I'm unclear on how many folks, if any, who presently fly the L1011 are also current (or at least rated) on the 757.)
 
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TZTriStar500
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RE: 194AT Back In Business?

Sat Nov 05, 2005 2:44 am

It will be is basic new colors(no logos) which was never rumored.

The 767 C4 visit will be done at AMECO in China before delivery to ATA. I do not know about any of the crew issues.
35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
 
NYCTZ
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RE: 194AT Back In Business?

Sat Nov 05, 2005 3:14 am

I would have loved to see the L-10's in our new livery, logos and all, but I understand why. I hope the 767 gets the complete paint scheme!
 
tundra767
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RE: 194AT Back In Business?

Sat Nov 05, 2005 3:23 am

Yes I have to say both will lok hot in those new colors!
 
wjcandee
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RE: 194AT Back In Business?

Sat Nov 05, 2005 6:25 am

Quoting TZTriStar500 (Reply 8):
It will be is basic new colors(no logos) which was never rumored.

I think the rumour to which the poster was referring related to the rumours regarding L1011 paint, which we have heard will be a "hybrid" nondescript scheme. Speaking of which, on the L1011, I wish they would keep the green vertical pinstripe line just aft of the lip of the No. 2 engine cowling. It matches the horizontal cheatline in the "On Vacation" paint scheme, but, even without that paint scheme, adds a nice effect to that intake. They could make it orange to match the broad line on the hybrid scheme. While I understand why aircraft used on military missions might be sensibly-nondescript, it's still too bad that at least the flag-tail wouldn't be included.
 
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TZTriStar500
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RE: 194AT Back In Business?

Sat Nov 05, 2005 11:11 am

Actually the reason for the paint job being sans logos is not because of the necessity to be nondescript. It is this way for monetary and graphics reasons only. In fact, the hybrid scheme is designed to add the logos later after the graphics issues are worked out and the company decides to spend the money for the paint masks.

What I mean by "graphics" problems is that the ATA billboard and tail flag are painted on with several offset paint layer masks. These masks were originally designed for a narrowbody aircraft and thus have a unique pixel design to give it a 3-D look. When the vendor scaled it up to fit a widebody, the 3-D effect was lost and so a new pixel and masks will have to be designed which costs money that we don't have right now. The masks alone for a 757 is somewhere around $50K let alone the extra time to paint the mutiple layers. To put it in some perspective, the 737-300s took 2 weeks to paint each.

The talk now is what scheme the 763 will get as it might be the same as the "new" L-1011 scheme(new scheme minus logos) at least temporarily.

I hope they both get the full livery some day, but you got to admit that the 763 is much more likely than the L-1011s.
35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
 
wjcandee
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RE: 194AT Back In Business?

Sat Nov 05, 2005 11:46 am

Thanks for the info, Tristar. And welcome to my respected users list.

Best,

Bill
 
wjcandee
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RE: 194AT Back In Business?

Sat Nov 05, 2005 1:32 pm

Quoting TZTriStar500 (Reply 8):
The 767 C4 visit will be done at AMECO in China before delivery

Can't complain, I'm sure, about Lufthansa's work out there. (Always amusing when the managing executive of a facility in Beijing has a German name...) But I woulda thought that AAR would have liked a shot at this one... But on the other hand, although this would have looked good for local politics, ATA needs to save every penny...
 
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TZTriStar500
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RE: 194AT Back In Business?

Wed Nov 09, 2005 1:24 pm

Well here is a sneak peak at N162AT's new clothes...I like it, nice and clean look...almost makesit look like a VIP L-1011  Smile

I admit that these are not great, but they give a good idea...

[url=http://home.indy.rr.com/dc8/stuff/nose%20section%20final.jpg]
[url=http://home.indy.rr.com/dc8/stuff/nose%20section%20right.jpg]
[url=http://home.indy.rr.com/dc8/stuff/right%20aft%20final.jpg]
[url=http://home.indy.rr.com/dc8/stuff/tail%20final.jpg]
35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
 
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TZTriStar500
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RE: 194AT Back In Business?

Wed Nov 09, 2005 1:31 pm

35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
 
tundra767
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RE: 194AT Back In Business?

Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:20 pm

I think she looks great!!
 
TriStar500
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RE: 194AT Back In Business?

Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:23 pm

Thanks for taking the effort to post these sneak peeks.  Smile I would have never expected to see a TZ TriStar in the current colorscheme.
Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
 
wjcandee
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RE: 194AT Back In Business?

Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:40 pm

Great photos. Fine-looking paint scheme. Lots of folks won't know that this is an older a/c, at least from the way the exterior looks. No mix-and-match radomes, cowls, etc., on this bird! (At least for the moment.)

Is is safe to assume that the thing doesn't go in for paint until all the corrosion work is done throughout the aircraft? Obviously all doubling, etc., on the exterior would be done before paint, but would they still work on stringers, spars, etc., after paint? Or would they be afraid of the possibility of damaging the new paint job? Put another way: can we assume from the fact that it made it to paint that all issues like corrosion, cracks, major system defects, etc., have been resolved and it's gonna make it out of D-check?

Best,

Bill
 
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TZTriStar500
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RE: 194AT Back In Business?

Thu Nov 10, 2005 2:55 am

Exterior painting in the check flow is really done at the end with all external work completed, but inevitably, some on-going internal repairs remain just to keep the flow going. There are a few remaining structures repairs left on the inside, but no "show-stoppers". 162 should be out within 2 weeks. I hope to get some better pics by then too.

Also, one last bit on 194...this aircraft is now not scheduled to receive a D check, but be retired on Feb. 28, 2006. However, by then anything is possible otherwise.
35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
 
typhaerion
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RE: 194AT Back In Business?

Thu Nov 10, 2005 3:21 am

I assume that the engines have the new blue base gold stripe scheme?

I think that one of the cooler parts of the new color scheme is that engine stripe.

She looks good. Can't wait till she is back in action and loading up our L1011 reports again. Thank you TZTriStar500 for the photos and info.
For some, the sky is the limit. For us, it is only the beginning... -- Jack Hunt
 
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TZTriStar500
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RE: 194AT Back In Business?

Thu Nov 10, 2005 3:51 am

No engine speed stripe either I'm afraid Sad That one is also pixelated like the logo and tail flag so the No.1 and 3 engine nose and core cowls will just be all blue....for now.
35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
 
typhaerion
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RE: 194AT Back In Business?

Thu Nov 10, 2005 4:17 am

Well that's no fun... Maybe we could take up a collection....  biggrin 
For some, the sky is the limit. For us, it is only the beginning... -- Jack Hunt
 
FRA2DTW
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RE: 194AT Back In Business?

Thu Nov 10, 2005 6:44 am

Quoting TZTriStar500 (Reply 20):

I assume that 194 is being retired because of the arrival of the 767. However, this does not add anything to the military charter capacity and thus to cash flow. On the other hand, it saves millions on the D-check, so it probably is a wash.
 
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TZTriStar500
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RE: 194AT Back In Business?

Thu Nov 10, 2005 11:50 am

Yes, the 763 is supposed to replace 194, but its not necessarily correct to say that capacity would be a wash. The L-1011 fleet is NOT the sole aircraft type used for the miltary charter business. Several of the 757-200s and -300s are used exclusively also. One of the reasons we are pulling down some of the scheduled ops is to put that capacity into the military ops.
35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
 
babaero
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RE: 194AT Back In Business?

Thu Nov 10, 2005 2:03 pm

Having worked myself at GAMCO in AUH how did you manage to get the camera pass security to take the pictures of 162... Photography was a big no no..
 
A40-TY
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RE: 194AT Back In Business?

Mon Nov 21, 2005 7:58 pm

Hi,

N162AT was rolled out at GAMCO 3 days ago in the new ATA colours but without titles. It spent around 5 weeks in the paintshop post D Check and would assume it will return to operation at some point next month, then N163AT is scheduled to arrive for it's major check.

As a side note, the L-1011-500 SX-CVD - which has been in open storage at GAMCO since June (and many rumours were circulated as to it's next operator), has now been towed up to the gravel park at the top end of GAMCO and parked next to L-1011-1 EI-CNN (which has been derelict at GAMCO since it arrived in November 1999)

A4O-TY
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typhaerion
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RE: 194AT Back In Business?

Mon Nov 21, 2005 11:01 pm

Quoting A40-TY (Reply 27):
As a side note, the L-1011-500 SX-CVD - which has been in open storage at GAMCO since June (and many rumours were circulated as to it's next operator), has now been towed up to the gravel park at the top end of GAMCO and parked next to L-1011-1 EI-CNN (which has been derelict at GAMCO since it arrived in November 1999)

Hmmm, that five is an interesting thought, but I am sure that unless it was cheap as free it will not be coming here. We want nothing to do with more of those birds, it will be 767s or bust for us from here on out.
For some, the sky is the limit. For us, it is only the beginning... -- Jack Hunt