soaringadi
Posts: 452
Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2004 4:56 pm

Regionals Getting Rid Of Crj's

Fri Nov 04, 2005 11:51 am

Okay I cannot really give an exact proof, but I know I read this somewhere (and maybe some of you guys did too) that a couple of airlines were getting id of the small Rj's (Crj 200's especially). Maybe even Erj's but haven't heard about that yet. Anyone know why is this, since it seems like a great airplane to me.

Drink !  Smile
If it ain't Boeing, I'm not going !
 
flypdx
Posts: 603
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2005 3:19 am

RE: Regionals Getting Rid Of Crj's

Fri Nov 04, 2005 12:15 pm

Because they are a big money user (NOT MAKER) due to the number of seats. Someone can explain it better, but it's got to do with it being expensive to run.
 
as739x
Posts: 5018
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 7:23 am

RE: Regionals Getting Rid Of Crj's

Fri Nov 04, 2005 12:27 pm

Horizon just switched a few orders of CR7's to Q400's and plans to bring on more of the Q400's.

ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
PPVRA
Posts: 7878
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:48 am

RE: Regionals Getting Rid Of Crj's

Fri Nov 04, 2005 12:31 pm

Quoting Flypdx (Reply 1):
Because they are a big money user (NOT MAKER) due to the number of seats.

As with any aircraft, as long as you use it properly, it will be profitable. It's a niche aircraft.

But the reason overall is that there are too many of them around, and the larger RJs (CRJ7/9 and E70/75/90/95) will take the place of some of the 50-seaters being used in high frequency markets.

Cheers
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
suv
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2005 3:52 pm

RE: Regionals Getting Rid Of Crj's

Fri Nov 04, 2005 3:17 pm

[

Quoting AS739X (Reply 2):
Horizon just switched a few orders of CR7's to Q400's and plans to bring on more of the Q400's.

ASSFO

Excellent! Love the Q400..very comfortable aircraft.

Suv
 
BBJII
Posts: 831
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2005 7:22 pm

RE: Regionals Getting Rid Of Crj's

Fri Nov 04, 2005 9:21 pm

Not wanting to start any wars  Silly .... but

Most carriers removing CRJ200's from there fleets are US regionals.

The Seat per Mile costs on these flights are getting higher and higher in the competitive US market place. (not that othe rmarkets are not competitive).

Newer RJ's offer the same performance with more seats, so it lower the Seat per Mile costs and beoming more viable.

In Europe CJR200's are operated mainly on routes where there is no competion on the carrier is so dominant they are the public first choice and can charge as they wish...therefore the Seat per Mile costs are lower as the fares are higher.

Although some Euro-regionals are fading them out too  Silly

Ohh yeah...I hate the CRJ200. It's a blow dart with wings
Remember: The Bird Hit You, You Didn't Hit The Bird.....
 
c5onknees
Posts: 152
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 8:54 am

RE: Regionals Getting Rid Of Crj's

Fri Nov 04, 2005 10:06 pm

The CRJ's are considerably underpowered and are serious groundhuggers, so I could care less if they get rid of them. The ERJ's are cool though. Thanks for the info.


cheers
 
Goldenshield
Posts: 5015
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2001 3:45 pm

RE: Regionals Getting Rid Of Crj's

Fri Nov 04, 2005 11:35 pm

Quoting C5onknees (Reply 6):
The CRJ's are considerably underpowered and are serious groundhuggers

That depends on the airline and how they ordered them.  Wink
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FlyPNS1
Posts: 5287
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:12 am

RE: Regionals Getting Rid Of Crj's

Fri Nov 04, 2005 11:48 pm

Comair has announced they will dump up to 30 CRJ's in the coming months. We already know that 11 CRJ's will be grounded as of Dec 1.
 
ATWZW170
Posts: 755
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 4:18 am

RE: Regionals Getting Rid Of Crj's

Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:03 am

At one time people paid to fly on the RJ's to avoid turbo's but now days, the fares aren't high enough to keep them flying. I think airlines like Skywest who are bringing on the CRJ-700 are making a smart move. I only hope that Air Wisconsin will order something larger and soon! I don't want us to start lagging behind!
Success is getting what you want...happiness is liking what you get
 
Tornado82
Posts: 4662
Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 10:19 am

RE: Regionals Getting Rid Of Crj's

Sat Nov 05, 2005 1:49 am

Quoting ATWZW170 (Reply 9):
I don't want us to start lagging behind!

You've been lagging behind since the day our folks bought CRJ's instead of ERJ's IMHO. Otherwise, you're a top-notch regional as far as service goes.

Quoting ATWZW170 (Reply 9):
I think airlines like Skywest who are bringing on the CRJ-700 are making a smart move. I only hope that Air Wisconsin will order something larger and soon!

Unless you're going the FlyI route, you need to find an airline who will allow you to bring on the larger aircraft... like US. And for God's sake, don't buy anything with the first letter C in its name.
 
iowaman
Posts: 3874
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 2:29 am

RE: Regionals Getting Rid Of Crj's

Sat Nov 05, 2005 2:43 am

Quoting BBJII (Reply 5):
In Europe CJR200's are operated mainly on routes where there is no competion on the carrier is so dominant they are the public first choice and can charge as they wish...therefore the Seat per Mile costs are lower as the fares are higher.

How does someone charging what they wish lower the seat per mile costs?
 
SRT75
Posts: 204
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 2:42 am

RE: Regionals Getting Rid Of Crj's

Sat Nov 05, 2005 2:43 am

Quoting C5onknees (Reply 6):
The CRJ's are considerably underpowered and are serious groundhuggers

The only time I have noticed this was on a flight from Helena, MT to Salt Lake City. We made an S turn after takeoff to gain altitude to clear the mountains surrounding the valley.

Profitable or not -- I personally love the CRJs. Maybe a blow dart with wings, but convenient, comfortable, and faster than the old turboprops they replaced.
 
Skywatcher
Posts: 459
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2002 11:19 am

RE: Regionals Getting Rid Of Crj's

Sat Nov 05, 2005 8:21 am

The CRJ-100/200 was innovative in it's time. It spawned numerous competitors (Dornier/Embraer/Russians etc.). That alone is proof enough of its success.
Like many humans (self included), it's getting long in the tooth but still deserves the respect that it should have.

If it's so bad, how could it have sold in excess of 1,000 airframes?
 
DAYflyer
Posts: 3546
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 9:35 pm

RE: Regionals Getting Rid Of Crj's

Sat Nov 05, 2005 8:34 am

The CJ-200 is now out of production due to weak demand. Canadiar just announced this last week. The smallest one you can get is the 700 now. The 200 is being discontinued because of the high CASM airlines have experienced with it. Too few seats.

All of these jets will eventually be parked/replaced by the 700 or the EMB 170, except where they are needed in the very smallest communities, where the ticket price/revenue will support them.

Comair, ASA and others will have to go to the larger jets with less frequesncy to survive. Canadair has admitted that the C-series is a program that is also in trouble since thye have not yet found launch customer.
One Nation Under God
 
beechnut
Posts: 553
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 12:27 am

RE: Regionals Getting Rid Of Crj's

Sat Nov 05, 2005 11:24 am

Quoting C5onknees (Reply 6):
The CRJ's are considerably underpowered and are serious groundhuggers, so I could care less if they get rid of them. The ERJ's are cool though. Thanks for the info.

Care to qualify this statement by posting thrust-to-weight ratios? Oh, can't be bothered to do the research? Here goes:

CRJ200LR 3.036 lb weight per pound of thrust
ERJ145XR 3.041 lb weight per pound of thrust.

So you see the ERJ actually has a slightly WORSE thrust loading than the CRJ (current 50-seat models)

However, the CRJ does NOT have leading edge slats and this gives it a longer takeoff run. I don't know if the ERJ has leading edge slats or not.

Gosh wouldn't it be a great day on Airliners.net when people actually started posting factual information that had a minimum of research?

Mike

(source: BBD and EMB web sites)
 
bomber996
Posts: 427
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2005 10:21 am

RE: Regionals Getting Rid Of Crj's

Sat Nov 05, 2005 11:53 am

Quoting BeechNut (Reply 15):
However, the CRJ does NOT have leading edge slats and this gives it a longer takeoff run. I don't know if the ERJ has leading edge slats or not.

The ERJ's do not have leading edge slots. That explains their nose down approach. However, with fuel prices the way they are it is cheaper to make the takeoff roll longer to use less fuel. Hell, even the A340 can be a good performer if pushed to its limits.

I feel like I just opened a whole new can of worms with that one.  Wow!

Peace  box 
Two biggest lies in aviation... "I'm from the FAA and I'm here to help you." & "Traffic in sight."
 
Tornado82
Posts: 4662
Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 10:19 am

RE: Regionals Getting Rid Of Crj's

Sat Nov 05, 2005 2:19 pm

Quoting BeechNut (Reply 15):
I don't know if the ERJ has leading edge slats or not.

No.

The ERJ's can regularly cruise at FL370, loaded or not. When was the last time you saw a CRJ at FL370 with any type of meaningful load? In all the RJ flying I've done I've never been over FL 320 in one, and typically we're in the mid 20's.
 
planemaker
Posts: 5411
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2003 12:53 pm

RE: Regionals Getting Rid Of Crj's

Sun Nov 06, 2005 12:40 am

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 14):
The 200 is being discontinued because of the high CASM airlines have experienced with it. Too few seats.

That it not so! The CRJ200 is being discontinued because there is a surplus of them on the market... it is as simple as that and not because of the "high" CASM. You don't see the 737-700 being discontinued even though it has higher CASM (and fewer seats, too) than the 737-800!

The only reason why there is a glut of small RJ's is entirely due to pilot union scope clauses that first prevented, then restricted, the number of plus 50-seat jets that airlines could fly. It is a simple as that.

For example, do you think that COEX doesn't want to fly +50-seat jets... or have the requirement for them. Likewise, AE, do you think that that they are happy being restricted to only 25 CRJ-700's?

Now with many Scope Clauses being relaxed, or almost eliminated by Chap. 11, airlines are now buying the larger RJ's that they always needed... and wanted.
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
Goldenshield
Posts: 5015
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2001 3:45 pm

RE: Regionals Getting Rid Of Crj's

Sun Nov 06, 2005 12:47 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 17):
When was the last time you saw a CRJ at FL370 with any type of meaningful load?

Except for the summer, when it reaches ISA+15 and many aircraft types are affected, pretty much every other day of the year. Of course, we use the hot and high models of the 3B1s.
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