ual747den
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The 737 Replacement (Pictures)

Sat Nov 05, 2005 9:53 am

So I know that there is another thread going on that says that there will not be a 737 replacement for 10 years, and I do agree with that statement. What I do not agree with is that it will be a narrowbody. Below I will paste my last post from that thread.

Quoting UAL747DEN (Reply 33):
Another thing that everyone should realize is that the 737 replacement will not be a narrow body it will be wide. This is what WN is asking for. It will cut turnaround time in half, offer better seats throughout the aircraft, and be a lot more comfortable for passengers.

And now like I said in the other post

Ladies and Gentlemen may I introduce to you the all new BOEING 797



So what do you think? I personally can't wait to see it roll out!
/// UNITED AIRLINES
 
Thorny
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RE: The 737 Replacement (Pictures)

Sat Nov 05, 2005 9:58 am

Quoting UAL747DEN (Thread starter):
So what do you think?

Would airlines really want the engines hanging there right beside the cabin? Seems likely to be a noisy machine. How about move the engines to the rear DC-9 style...
 
ual747den
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RE: The 737 Replacement (Pictures)

Sat Nov 05, 2005 10:01 am

I didn't make this drawing, it was done by Boeing. I am not a big fan of the way it looks from the outside either but I do not know anything about designing a plane!
/// UNITED AIRLINES
 
BoomBoom
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RE: The 737 Replacement (Pictures)

Sat Nov 05, 2005 10:02 am

2-3-2 seating? Looks a lot like a 767. A twin aisle will not be as efficient as a single aisle. I think they will go with a single with 3-3 seating (18 inch wide seat) and an extra wide aisle.
Our eyes are open, our eyes are open--wide, wide, wide...
 
stuckinMAF
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RE: The 737 Replacement (Pictures)

Sat Nov 05, 2005 10:27 am

The early 757 designs started out with a T-tail, too. I think that would be one design aspect that would be quickly revised as well. Until some revolutionary flying wing or other such monumental breakthrough comes along, we're pretty much locked into the low-wing, fuselage mounted tail, wing-pylon mounted engines design for a long time. There are still a few refinements that can be made, but all medium and large transport designs will come from this cookie cutter until the "big breakthrough" comes along. The designers keep coming back around to it because it just works.  airplane  See? They even patterned the Airplane Smiley after it!
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" -Sigmund Freud
 
Cadet57
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RE: The 737 Replacement (Pictures)

Sat Nov 05, 2005 10:36 am

looks like a Do 328 jet, a 737, and a 767 had some super jet-a and had an interesting night...
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
TheSonntag
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RE: The 737 Replacement (Pictures)

Sat Nov 05, 2005 10:58 am

Lets hope Boeing have a sense for designing a beautiful airplane, they did that when they built the 747, 787 and 777, but this design is just ugly.

Being ugly is no sales argument, efficiency is the only one, but please make it better looking!!!
 
Avioneto
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RE: The 737 Replacement (Pictures)

Sat Nov 05, 2005 11:03 am

come on, tell me you're kiddin'
El Avioneto Jr. MMMX
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: The 737 Replacement (Pictures)

Sat Nov 05, 2005 11:06 am

A widebody design would be nice, but I would prefer conventional wings with the engines more spread apart, and a conventional tail over a T-tail.
The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
 
MarshalN
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RE: The 737 Replacement (Pictures)

Sat Nov 05, 2005 11:12 am

Hmm, so a stubby widebody? Interesting....
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: The 737 Replacement (Pictures)

Sat Nov 05, 2005 11:17 am

Quoting MarshalN (Reply 9):
Hmm, so a stubby widebody? Interesting....

Remember that the 7J7, a replacement for the 727, was supposed to be a widebody. The 7J7 didn't fail because of its widebody design, it failed because of unproven unducted fan engines.

I'd like something looking similar to this:

Modified Airliner Photos:
Click here for bigger photo!
Design © Justin Cederholm
Template © Justin Cederholm



[Edited 2005-11-05 03:27:16]

[Edited 2005-11-05 03:28:15]
The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
 
ACDC8
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RE: The 737 Replacement (Pictures)

Sat Nov 05, 2005 11:18 am

Quoting Thorny (Reply 1):
Would airlines really want the engines hanging there right beside the cabin? Seems likely to be a noisy machine

BAe 146 was pretty quiet...  Wink
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
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zeke
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RE: The 737 Replacement (Pictures)

Sat Nov 05, 2005 11:41 am

The cross section reminds me of Thunderbird 2 of international rescue fame, just hope Boeing is not planning to have supermarionation pilots like Virgil Tracy to crew them.

Might end up like a fat DO328JET.
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
 
777ER
Crew
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RE: The 737 Replacement (Pictures)

Sat Nov 05, 2005 11:45 am

So this is the new B797. Well its still a long time intill the roll out so plenty of time for the design to hopfully change
 
md80fanatic
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RE: The 737 Replacement (Pictures)

Sat Nov 05, 2005 11:47 am

Boeing will never make a bird with rear engines again....that would be like admitting defeat, in my opinion.  Wink I mean, they recently cancelled many rear engine production lines from "another" commercial aircraft builder if I remember correctly.

I think it's time to put the engines "inside" the fuselage, fighter-jet style. Scale up a F-14 Tomcat for instance....the fuselage carrying 30 abreast and 40 rows deep. Mimic the mighty goose, for example. Whah? It could happen?  Wink
 
siromega
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RE: The 737 Replacement (Pictures)

Sat Nov 05, 2005 11:50 am

Isnt there a problem aerodynamically with short and wide fuselages like this design? I'd think it'd be longer with a 2-2-2 layout, and regular wing arrangement (maybe a little taller landing gear for higher bypass ratio engines). A 120 pax arragement in 2-2-2 would probably be the same length as a 735 is.
 
AsstChiefMark
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RE: The 737 Replacement (Pictures)

Sat Nov 05, 2005 11:55 am

Kind of reminds me of a smaller version of this:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Robert Matthews - FliteZoneImages

Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Damned MSP...Red tail...Red tail
 
stuckinMAF
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RE: The 737 Replacement (Pictures)

Sat Nov 05, 2005 11:56 am

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 14):
I think it's time to put the engines "inside" the fuselage, fighter-jet style. Scale up a F-14 Tomcat for instance....the fuselage carrying 30 abreast and 40 rows deep. Mimic the mighty goose, for example. Whah? It could happen?

Why not scale up an SR-71? It has a much higher fineness ratio, it's quite efficient and would put the SST debate to rest for a long time!
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" -Sigmund Freud
 
rikkus67
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RE: The 737 Replacement (Pictures)

Sat Nov 05, 2005 11:59 am

UAL747DEN

The drawing you are referring to is one of about 4 or 5 designs Boeing had drawn up as an alternative to the 737 narrow body design. IIRC, an article (which I cannot remember where from) showed this design, as well as a DC-9 looking variant, and a near 767-wide fuselage with a traditional wing placement design. It was an interesting article that was published a while back... I wish I had the article to be able to quote it properly!

If you do a search of the ORIGINAL Boeing 747 design, you will find 3 variations of the 747-100 fuselage, one with an XB-52 (or YB-52?) cockpit over top of the main fuselage, and yet another showing a TWO LEVEL FUSELAGE.

In other words, Boeing is just covering all their design bases! B2707, Sonic Cruiser, the 787 original design.... all are conceptual, as well as the high wing drawing you posted.

Regards, Rik
AC.WA.CP.DL.RW.CO.WG.WJ.WN.KI.FL.SK.ACL.UA.US.F9
 
richm
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RE: The 737 Replacement (Pictures)

Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:06 pm

I am no expert on this. But surely it'd cause more drag than a typical narrow-body would? Thus making it a less fuel efficient design for an aircraft of that size?

I thought that major aircraft manufacturers had stopped designing aircraft with the T-tail, as apparently once the aircraft gets into a stall, it makes it more difficult to correct the problem. I am not 100% sure on that, so don't shoot me!

I personally think this is some sort of joke, trying to fool people into believing this is a 737 replacement.

[Edited 2005-11-05 04:10:11]
 
ss278
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RE: The 737 Replacement (Pictures)

Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:07 pm

An old pilot maxim...if it looks ugly, it'll fly ugly.

This looks ugly. I'm sure Boeing will do better.
 
stuckinMAF
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RE: The 737 Replacement (Pictures)

Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:13 pm

Quoting Ss278 (Reply 20):
An old pilot maxim...if it looks ugly, it'll fly ugly.

Then the A380 will fly like............

 duck 

Never mind. I'm not EVEN gonna go there!
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" -Sigmund Freud
 
elvis777
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RE: The 737 Replacement (Pictures)

Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:19 pm

Hello Everyone,

RichM, I believe that you are right. In certain aerodynamic regimes T- tails have a serius instability issue.

Waht about a blended wing design? I know expensive and unproven but it will be a paradigm shift in airliner design!

Peace

Elvis777
Leper,Unevolved, Misplaced and Unrepentant SportsFanatic and a ZOMBIE as well
 
BOS2LAF
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RE: The 737 Replacement (Pictures)

Sat Nov 05, 2005 1:50 pm

Quoting RichM (Reply 19):
I thought that major aircraft manufacturers had stopped designing aircraft with the T-tail, as apparently once the aircraft gets into a stall, it makes it more difficult to correct the problem. I am not 100% sure on that, so don't shoot me!

actually from what i recall from my aerodynamics class (its been 3 years, so im not certain), its the other way around. the t-tail is supposed to be better in a stall.

again, from what i can remember from this class, one of the big drawbacks to the t-tail is the extra weight required for structural reinforcement to support the weight of the tail.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: The 737 Replacement (Pictures)

Sat Nov 05, 2005 4:13 pm

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 16):
Kind of reminds me of a smaller version of this:

 checkmark 

Looks like someone washed a C17 in hot water . . . . put a pax cabin in it . . . .stripped off two engines.

Fine by me, just get me from A to B . . . .
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
viscount630
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RE: The 737 Replacement (Pictures)

Sat Nov 05, 2005 4:28 pm

Single seats in "Y"...? BLISS!!  cloudnine 
RIP Dan-Air. Where the Secret was SERVICE.
 
DLKAPA
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RE: The 737 Replacement (Pictures)

Sat Nov 05, 2005 4:43 pm

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 14):
I think it's time to put the engines "inside" the fuselage, fighter-jet style.

If the engines were inside the fuselage F-16 style the interior would be ungodly loud.
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
FedEx
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RE: The 737 Replacement (Pictures)

Sat Nov 05, 2005 4:50 pm

Looks like a Seattle built An-148.
 
zvezda
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RE: The 737 Replacement (Pictures)

Sat Nov 05, 2005 4:54 pm

Other than the obvious, such as it being a twin, the only feature from the sketches at the top that I think is likely is the ability to carry LD3s (single file, not side-by-side).
 
zvezda
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RE: The 737 Replacement (Pictures)

Sat Nov 05, 2005 4:57 pm

Quoting Viscount630 (Reply 25):
Single seats in "Y"...? BLISS!!

Rather than narrowing from a 2-3-2 configuration to a 1-3-1 configuration, airlines would narrow to a 2-2-2 configuration.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: The 737 Replacement (Pictures)

Sat Nov 05, 2005 5:02 pm

Why Not Dihedreal.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
gigneil
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RE: The 737 Replacement (Pictures)

Sat Nov 05, 2005 5:07 pm

This drawing has been around since before the 737NG was launched.

No reason to believe its going to happen now.

N
 
GPHOTO
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RE: The 737 Replacement (Pictures)

Sat Nov 05, 2005 5:13 pm

Quoting StuckinMAF (Reply 17):
Why not scale up an SR-71? It has a much higher fineness ratio, it's quite efficient and would put the SST debate to rest for a long time!

Ugh! Imagine the poor passengers when it had an engine unstart!  Wink

Best regards,

Jim
Erm, is this thing on?
 
whitehatter
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RE: The 737 Replacement (Pictures)

Sat Nov 05, 2005 6:39 pm

Old news....this was discussed here earlier this year.

It is not a proposed design at all, it is a format Boeing patented for further study. They have made no commitment to it whatsoever, it is just a format they want to be able to investigate so they drew up a basic specification and patented it.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
stuckinMAF
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RE: The 737 Replacement (Pictures)

Sat Nov 05, 2005 6:52 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 30):
Why Not Dihedreal.

With modern flight control systems, stability is almost a second thought and dihedreal is not nearly as necessary for maintaining dynamic stability as it once was, Anhedreal might even be useful in bringing the engines down to a height that servicing would be much more practical.

Quoting GPHOTO (Reply 32):
Quoting StuckinMAF (Reply 17):
Why not scale up an SR-71? It has a much higher fineness ratio, it's quite efficient and would put the SST debate to rest for a long time!

Ugh! Imagine the poor passengers when it had an engine unstart!

I can see it now, the movie Airplane3, passengers all get off the plane and the right side of everyone's face is all bruised and they have icepacks with the corporate logo on them!
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" -Sigmund Freud
 
A319XFW
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RE: The 737 Replacement (Pictures)

Sat Nov 05, 2005 7:18 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 24):
actually from what i recall from my aerodynamics class (its been 3 years, so im not certain), its the other way around. the t-tail is supposed to be better in a stall.

Don't you get a deep stall with a T-tail though?

Let's face it, A and B are going to be looking at tons of different designs according to what the designers feel like on the day!  Big grin

I think being able to get engines at the rear a la DC-9 will be much harder now, as the FAA wants to assume infinate energy when looking at rotorburst, and the odds of it hitting something vital when both engines are so close are much higher.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: The 737 Replacement (Pictures)

Sat Nov 05, 2005 8:09 pm

Quoting A319XFW (Reply 35):

Would love to answer your post, but I believe Airliners auto-quote sytem has again screwed the dog . . . I didn't make the post attribute to the blame line . . . sorry.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
md80fanatic
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RE: The 737 Replacement (Pictures)

Sat Nov 05, 2005 9:12 pm

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 26):
Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 14):
I think it's time to put the engines "inside" the fuselage, fighter-jet style.

If the engines were inside the fuselage F-16 style the interior would be ungodly loud.

I did not mean putting the engines in the pax cabin. :P

The engines we have now provide no lift at all....but if they were inserted into a shaped fuselage then the whole would actually be a lifting body itself. That is why I suggested a very wide cabin.
 
blast
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RE: The 737 Replacement (Pictures)

Sat Nov 05, 2005 9:30 pm

Quoting Thorny (Reply 1):
Would airlines really want the engines hanging there right beside the cabin? Seems likely to be a noisy machine. How about move the engines to the rear DC-9 style...

With engines at the rear, the rear end of the cabin becomes a noisy place too. Certainly in the F-100 that is..
 
A319XFW
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RE: The 737 Replacement (Pictures)

Sat Nov 05, 2005 10:30 pm

Apparently the 717 is very quiet in the back with the new BR engines, but that's from hear-say, as I've never flown the 717, only the old DC-9!
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: The 737 Replacement (Pictures)

Sat Nov 05, 2005 11:00 pm

Quoting StuckinMAF (Reply 34):
Anhedreal might even be useful in bringing the engines down to a height that servicing would be much more practical.

Thought about the Landing gear Height.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
PIA777
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RE: The 737 Replacement (Pictures)

Sat Nov 05, 2005 11:18 pm

Why would we need to replace such a successful plane? If it ain't
broken, don't fix it.

PIA777
GO CUBS!!
 
Boeing Nut
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RE: The 737 Replacement (Pictures)

Sat Nov 05, 2005 11:21 pm

Quoting PIA777 (Reply 41):
Why would we need to replace such a successful plane? If it ain't
broken, don't fix it.

 checkmark 
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
TheSonntag
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RE: The 737 Replacement (Pictures)

Sat Nov 05, 2005 11:36 pm

Quoting PIA777 (Reply 41):
Why would we need to replace such a successful plane? If it ain't
broken, don't fix it.

PIA777

Like we say, das Bessere ist des Guten Feind (the better is the enemy of the good). Today I agree that the technologies to make a much better airplane aren't available yet. But in 10 or so years, a lot of new technologies will become available (new engines, better composite technology, just to name a few), so that a new design will be needed.

The "if it ain't broken, don't fix it" attitude allowed Airbus to come out with the A320 series which in the end killed McDD who were too reluctant to change.

If Airbus and Boeing don't come out with something radical new in 10-15years, I guess this would be a chance for another manufacturer to come out with something completely new.
 
planemannyc
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RE: The 737 Replacement (Pictures)

Sun Nov 06, 2005 1:14 am

If Boeing listens to what passengers want, then this could easily fly. Come on, who wants to be stuck on row 29 with 6 passengers on each row waiting to get out in front of him/her. Also, from the airlines' POV, this would allow easier board / deplane time, which could be a big help with a twin aisle.

I would love to see this bird become reality.

Best,

Wasim / Planemannyc
 
zippyjet
Posts: 5077
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2001 3:32 pm

RE: The 737 Replacement (Pictures)

Sun Nov 06, 2005 4:05 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 10):
Remember that the 7J7, a replacement for the 727, was supposed to be a widebody. The 7J7 didn't fail because of its widebody design, it failed because of unproven unducted fan engines.

I'd like something looking similar to this:

I remember the 7J7 project but, this was the bird with the reverse profan engines!

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ian Kirby


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Frank C. Duarte Jr.

I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
 
bmacleod
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RE: The 737 Replacement (Pictures)

Sun Nov 06, 2005 4:15 am

You cannot replace a single-aisle with a twin-aisle. You're asking Boeing to dump single-aisle design, the most profitable for Boeing, for a shortened version of the 762?  confused 
The engine is the heart of an airplane, but the pilot is its soul.
 
zippyjet
Posts: 5077
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2001 3:32 pm

RE: The 737 Replacement (Pictures)

Sun Nov 06, 2005 4:21 am

Quoting UAL747DEN (Thread starter):
Ladies and Gentlemen may I introduce to you the all new BOEING 797

Pictures didn't come out. Tried Boeing's site, can't find the pictures. Please furnish the link.
I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
 
md80fanatic
Posts: 2365
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RE: The 737 Replacement (Pictures)

Sun Nov 06, 2005 5:32 am

Well then, I guess it may be time to re-display the "MD-97"  Wink

I am sure many have seen this before on A.net. For the life of me I cannot remember who posted this (or who created it), but I had to have a copy, as you might understand. Isn't she a beauty!!!!!


http://www.topflightaustin.com/other/00000621.jpg
 
pillowtester
Posts: 149
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RE: The 737 Replacement (Pictures)

Sun Nov 06, 2005 6:00 am

Let's say that powerplants embedded in the wing (comet style) or in the fuselage like a jet fighter are inherently more aerodynamic (and turns into fuel savings)...

This means Boeing (or whoever) could spend less time on R&D spent on fuel efficiency/aerodynamics and perhaps focus more on sound deadening around the area where the engines would be blended in the fuselage.

Who knows, perhaps this could be a new type of fuel efficient, and quiet too! And of course, just cool looking for us aviation buffs.
...said Dan jubilantly.

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