Pomnath
Topic Author
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Paris Riots, Is It Safe To Fly To CDG/Orly?

Sat Nov 05, 2005 8:13 pm

Considering the heavy riots in France, is it safe to fly via Paris or should one avoid? Any inputs welcome, since we have friends flying via CDG and would like to re-route them in case suggested.
Sea to Sky, Racists should Die!!
 
TheSorcerer
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RE: Paris Riots, Is It Safe To Fly To CDG/Orly?

Sat Nov 05, 2005 8:20 pm

I'd say so. I don't think the rioters will get into the airports and they don't have any SAMs (AFAIK  Wink)

The Sorcerer
ALITALIA,All Landings In Torino, All Luggage In Athens ;)
 
CrazyHorse
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RE: Paris Riots, Is It Safe To Fly To CDG/Orly?

Sat Nov 05, 2005 8:21 pm

No problems, the riots aren't at the airports, when your friend´s don´t visit the suburbs there will be no danger.
 
TriStar500
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RE: Paris Riots, Is It Safe To Fly To CDG/Orly?

Sat Nov 05, 2005 8:31 pm

If they don't take the "local" RER, they won't even stop in the suburbs and go nonstop from Parc des Expositions to Gare du Nord.
Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
 
sebolino
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RE: Paris Riots, Is It Safe To Fly To CDG/Orly?

Sat Nov 05, 2005 8:32 pm

Here you can see the power of medias.
There is no revolution in France, just a few idiots burning their neighboor's cars.
 
runway23
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RE: Paris Riots, Is It Safe To Fly To CDG/Orly?

Sat Nov 05, 2005 8:34 pm

As long as you avoid the Seine Saint-Denis department and Clichy you'll be alright.

The Pantheon is however very dangerous with the proximity of a jerk.
 
Aither
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RE: Paris Riots, Is It Safe To Fly To CDG/Orly?

Sat Nov 05, 2005 8:35 pm

What the hell do you believe what is happening ?

It is like saying is it safe to fly via JFK because of what's happening in the Bronx ?

Is is safe to fly via DEL because of the tension between Pakistan and India ?

So the answer is it is absolutely safe. Media make these events much bigger than they actually are.
Never trust the obvious
 
parisien
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RE: Paris Riots, Is It Safe To Fly To CDG/Orly?

Sat Nov 05, 2005 8:35 pm

well, the unrest is dissipating and was very localized. it did not affect the airport. You can transfer at CDG no problem, or take a trip to the city from there (yes, the city was and is safe too). Enjoy CDG.
 
sebolino
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RE: Paris Riots, Is It Safe To Fly To CDG/Orly?

Sat Nov 05, 2005 8:35 pm

Quoting Runway23 (Reply 5):
The Pantheon is however very dangerous with the proximity of a jerk.

I don't get this one ...
 
TheSorcerer
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RE: Paris Riots, Is It Safe To Fly To CDG/Orly?

Sat Nov 05, 2005 8:40 pm

Hasn't rioting started in Bordeaux as well?

The Sorcerer
ALITALIA,All Landings In Torino, All Luggage In Athens ;)
 
teahan
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RE: Paris Riots, Is It Safe To Fly To CDG/Orly?

Sat Nov 05, 2005 8:43 pm

I suggest you avoid Paris. The whole city is burning and rumours about the riots spreading to the foot of the Eiffel tower tonight are rife. After all, CNN and Sky know best...

[Edited 2005-11-05 12:53:23]
Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
 
CrazyHorse
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RE: Paris Riots, Is It Safe To Fly To CDG/Orly?

Sat Nov 05, 2005 8:45 pm

Quoting TheSorcerer (Reply 9):
Hasn't rioting started in Bordeaux as well?

I don´t think so, the riots were going to other towns like Lille and Montreuil, but from Bordeaux I haven´t read anything in the Internet today.
 
TheSorcerer
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RE: Paris Riots, Is It Safe To Fly To CDG/Orly?

Sat Nov 05, 2005 8:47 pm

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-13457760,00.html
OMG that's terrible.
I hope the police come down harder on rioters.

The Sorcerer
ALITALIA,All Landings In Torino, All Luggage In Athens ;)
 
Toulouse
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RE: Paris Riots, Is It Safe To Fly To CDG/Orly?

Sat Nov 05, 2005 8:51 pm

Quoting Pomnath (Thread starter):
Considering the heavy riots in France, is it safe to fly via Paris or should one avoid? Any inputs welcome, since we have friends flying via CDG and would like to re-route them in case suggested.

Don't worry my friend. I've been living in France (Toulouse) for 3 years now and feel no danger! I'll be transferring at CDG as well next week and am not the slightest bit worried. My sister-in-law lives in central Paris and hasn't seen a single problem yet there. You'll be fine.

Quoting Teahan (Reply 10):
I suggest you avoid Paris. The whole city is burning and rumours about the riots spreading to the foot of the Eiffel tower tonight are rife. After all, the CNN and Sky know best...

That is a bit of saracsm Teahan, I hope
Long live Aer Lingus!
 
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glideslope
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RE: Paris Riots, Is It Safe To Fly To CDG/Orly?

Sat Nov 05, 2005 8:54 pm

Quoting Aither (Reply 6):
It is like saying is it safe to fly via JFK because of what's happening in the Bronx ?

Um, excuse me, but there were no problems in the Bronx while I was there last week?

Oh, I see, a hypothetical remark? Such as, would it be safe if there were a problem in the Bronx?

Thanks for clearing that up.  Smile

Just goes to show that these types of issues are a global problem not limited to any one nation.  Smile
To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu
 
runway23
Posts: 1914
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RE: Paris Riots, Is It Safe To Fly To CDG/Orly?

Sat Nov 05, 2005 8:57 pm

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 13):
Quoting Teahan (Reply 10):
I suggest you avoid Paris. The whole city is burning and rumours about the riots spreading to the foot of the Eiffel tower tonight are rife. After all, the CNN and Sky know best...

That is a bit of saracsm Teahan, I hope

Not so sure of that. I also note that since Teahan has moved to Paris riots have started and things have gone bad. My solution is simply: oust him from Paris.
 
Pomnath
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RE: Paris Riots, Is It Safe To Fly To CDG/Orly?

Sat Nov 05, 2005 9:40 pm

Please give me a serious answer? Over here we see terrible things on BBC about the problems in Paris, and it seems as though there are fires all over.

Quoting Aither (Reply 6):
Is is safe to fly via DEL because of the tension between Pakistan and India ?

I am not comparing, nor am I going to get drawn into comparisions please, or generalisations. Please appreciate, for those of us living a continent away, it is difficult to make out if television is over-reporting or under-reporting. And nine days of riots is too much by any standards, even in India-Pakistan, so I ask.
Sea to Sky, Racists should Die!!
 
varig_dc10
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RE: Paris Riots, Is It Safe To Fly To CDG/Orly?

Sat Nov 05, 2005 9:47 pm

Pomnath

If I was you, I'd tell your friends to avoid CDG at all costs.

It is the worst international airport I have ever been to.

varig_dc10

PS Wouldn't concern yourself about the riots.
 
LH526
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RE: Paris Riots, Is It Safe To Fly To CDG/Orly?

Sat Nov 05, 2005 10:04 pm

Shooting and looting in the Bronx doesn't mean they shut down JFK.
It's nightly fights in Paris suburbs, it's not that whole Paris became anarchistic overnight.

Mario
LH526
Trittst im Morgenrot daher, seh ich dich im Strahlenmeer ...
 
Toulouse
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RE: Paris Riots, Is It Safe To Fly To CDG/Orly?

Sat Nov 05, 2005 10:10 pm

[quote=Pomnath,reply=16]Please give me a serious answer? Over here we see terrible things on BBC about the problems in Paris, and it seems as though there are fires all over.

I gave you a serious answer Pomnath, I believe it is perfectly safe your you to trasfer through CDG/ORY.

I have jestread that there was trouble for the first time on the outskirts of my own city last night, Toulouse, 7 cars set on fire in one of the cités on the outskirts, three arrest, and thankfully, by midnight, total calm had returned to the area!

Ignore what you're seeing in the media.Things always look worse, especially when you're far away. I will undoubtedly bring my pregnant wife for a stroll in this pleasant (enough) autumn day in central Toulouse without the slightest worry. Later this week I will take a flight from TLS and transfer at CDG.
In the highly unlikely event that things did get bad, rest assured I'll let you know. But I would be EXTREMELY surprised if they did. These incidnts are restricted to areas that are usually troublesome, where these sort of incidents (granted to a lesser extent) occur frequently. Sort of ghetto areas on the outskirts of big cities anywhere.

I do understand your concerns and what you say about being so far away, I remember many times in the past meeting people scared to travel to Ireland because all they saw on their TV's far away were the troubles in Northern Ireland, and having been brought up in Dublin, when things were very bad in Northern Ireland, I can assure you I never in my life saw a single incident in Dublin.

Basically, don't worry. You'll be fine.
Long live Aer Lingus!
 
Pomnath
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RE: Paris Riots, Is It Safe To Fly To CDG/Orly?

Sat Nov 05, 2005 10:11 pm

Quoting LH526 (Reply 18):
It's nightly fights in Paris suburbs, it's not that whole Paris became anarchistic overnight

Just looks very frightening on television, reminds one of Baghdad when the Americans were invading.

And you must agree, what with Concorde crash and terminal building falling down, we people who are just users or tourists have to think about such things. Maybe nightly fight in suburbs is normal for local people, but we are tourists, if we wanted nightly fights we would have gone somewhere else!!
Sea to Sky, Racists should Die!!
 
teahan
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RE: Paris Riots, Is It Safe To Fly To CDG/Orly?

Sat Nov 05, 2005 10:12 pm

Quoting Pomnath (Reply 16):
Please give me a serious answer? Over here we see terrible things on BBC about the problems in Paris, and it seems as though there are fires all over.

Exactly what Toulouse said in reply 19.

Relax and have a nice trip (seriously).
Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
 
varig_dc10
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RE: Paris Riots, Is It Safe To Fly To CDG/Orly?

Sat Nov 05, 2005 10:16 pm

Quoting Pomnath (Reply 20):
And you must agree, what with Concorde crash and terminal building falling down, we people who are just users or tourists have to think about such things. Maybe nightly fight in suburbs is normal for local people, but we are tourists, if we wanted nightly fights we would have gone somewhere else!!

Pomnath... relax... for God's sake!
 
sebolino
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RE: Paris Riots, Is It Safe To Fly To CDG/Orly?

Sat Nov 05, 2005 10:25 pm

Quoting Pomnath (Reply 20):
Just looks very frightening on television, reminds one of Baghdad when the Americans were invading.

You should see what images about India we have in Europe. You wouldn't stay in your own country.

Of course they show you the most impressive, that's the way they use to make money.
 
Boogyjay
Posts: 436
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RE: Paris Riots, Is It Safe To Fly To CDG/Orly?

Sat Nov 05, 2005 10:27 pm

The only problem I could see is, by night, the train RER B which you can take to go to central Paris.

Wednesday ev' at 11pm, 30 riots threw stones at 2 cars of the train, forced the operator to leave the train (not injuring him) and stole some stuffs to at least 2 pax. As a consequence, there was a strike at 50% Thursday.

So, unless you have to take the train by night, there is absolutely nothing to worry about. If you arrive late in Paris, you better take the bus which goes through the Motorway to central Paris. I don't know though until what time the service works.

Btw, a car has been burnt 100m away from my home last night. It's very annoying for the owners.
However, it's not usual in my town and some people suggest that some will try to benefit from the situation to burn their own old car to get the insurance refund.

There might have been some problems a bit farther though, as I heard police car horns. But it was still less frequent as what you could hear in Manhattan .

[Edited 2005-11-05 14:31:27]
 
Blondie75
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RE: Paris Riots, Is It Safe To Fly To CDG/Orly?

Sat Nov 05, 2005 10:28 pm

Pomnath, don't worry at all, all that is happening is very localised, in a few suburbs that you (or anyone else) would never visit anyway ! I live in Paris, and everything is absolutely calm  Wink

Paris is a great city, and it is very safe, and the airport is also far from being concerned by the nightly riots.

Have a good holiday
 
varig_dc10
Posts: 320
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RE: Paris Riots, Is It Safe To Fly To CDG/Orly?

Sat Nov 05, 2005 10:30 pm

Quoting Sebolino (Reply 23):
You should see what images about India we have in Europe. You wouldn't stay in your own country.

Well put!
 
Beaucaire
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RE: Paris Riots, Is It Safe To Fly To CDG/Orly?

Sat Nov 05, 2005 10:31 pm

We should consider importing Jeff Bush from Florida to have a law voted,allowing all french citizens to buy guns and shot at sight....
Seriously - TV are at their best currently showing burning cars and waste-bins.
Politicians in France have done nothing to prevent the isolation of immigrants throughout the last 30 years.( left or right -they all have failed !!)
The set up of "Ghettos" has amplified the integration problems.In Germany you have 3 Million Turks but nothing similar in terms of racial segregation as compared to the situation of maghreb-immigrants in France.
The fault is not only with politicians though-many parents neglect to teach their children social behaviour and respect for property and neighbourhood.
You don't have problems with the asian community in down-town Paris ( Viet-chinese-thai community ) but mainly with third-generation north african and black-african population,who don't see any perspective.
But saying this - come to France and enjoy the country- TV have to make points by selling misery...( they rarely show successfull immigrants who have managed to set up their business..)
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
sebolino
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RE: Paris Riots, Is It Safe To Fly To CDG/Orly?

Sat Nov 05, 2005 10:33 pm

Quoting Blondie75 (Reply 25):
Paris is a great city, and it is very safe

Actually it's true, Paris is even quite boring (Strasbourg is worse I admit).
 
Kahala777
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RE: Paris Riots, Is It Safe To Fly To CDG/Orly?

Sun Nov 06, 2005 12:30 am

Quoting Aither (Reply 6):
It is like saying is it safe to fly via JFK because of what's happening in the Bronx ?

What exactly is happening in the Bronx?

Quoting Aither (Reply 6):
Is is safe to fly via DEL because of the tension between Pakistan and India ?

Delhi is hundreds of miles from the tensions between India and Pakistan!


Quoting Blondie75 (Reply 25):
Paris is a great city, and it is very safe, and the airport is also far from being concerned by the nightly riots.

Paris.. a great city?

If one does recall hotels where immigrants lived a few months back were being torched for no apparent reason at all.

Paris.. very safe?

Again, read the above!

My suggestion to anyone that wants to visit Paris, is go and see it! It is much dirtier in person than you could ever imagine. Go and visit Paris!

KAHALA777
 
LH526
Crew
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RE: Paris Riots, Is It Safe To Fly To CDG/Orly?

Sun Nov 06, 2005 12:51 am

Quoting Pomnath (Reply 20):
Maybe nightly fight in suburbs is normal for local people, but we are tourists, if we wanted nightly fights we would have gone somewhere else!!

By far it's not normal for us europeans to have such riots in one of the worlds most beautiful city. But every country has certain social problems.
I wouldn't mind flying through Rio de Janeiro Galeao when some miles away there's shooting and crime in burning favellas.

It's not like the riots are like paramilitars with tanks and bazookas crashing houses and sloughtering, it's "just" vandalising youths burning up cars, buses and having street fights with the police.

Mario
LH526
Trittst im Morgenrot daher, seh ich dich im Strahlenmeer ...
 
StuckInCA
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RE: Paris Riots, Is It Safe To Fly To CDG/Orly?

Sun Nov 06, 2005 1:41 am

Quoting Aither (Reply 6):
What the hell do you believe what is happening ?

It is like saying is it safe to fly via JFK because of what's happening in the Bronx ?

Is is safe to fly via DEL because of the tension between Pakistan and India ?

So the answer is it is absolutely safe. Media make these events much bigger than they actually are.

It's hard for those of us who are busy and very very far away. All I have time to do is check a few "reputable" news sources once or twice a day. I just see headlines that say things like "Rioting, arson spreads across France" (AP - 14 min ago). I agree that things are generally sensationalized, but give Pomnath credit for at least asking and not coming in here and posting about what a disaster France is (not that I think it is, generally). If I believed everything the media said was as serious as they make it out to be I'd never leave the house. And I'd wear a gas mask and gloves.
 
Trvlr
Posts: 4251
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RE: Paris Riots, Is It Safe To Fly To CDG/Orly?

Sun Nov 06, 2005 1:47 am

Semantics aside, here are the facts:

1) The rioting isn't happening anywhere near where tourists ever go.

2) Yes, the situation is serious, but at the moment still fairly localized.

3) The main mass transit line to the airport, the RER B, passes near some of the affected areas, and consequently has been prone to service disruptions. If you want to be 110% sure of an absolutely normal trip to and from the airport, take a taxi instead.

4) Other parts of the mass transit system (especially buses) could experience irregular operation. However this will not (in my opinion) affect the main tourist areas, ie the center of Paris.

5) Central Paris itself has always been incredibly safe. Keep the same common sense you would have visiting any other city and you'll have a great time.

Aaron G.
 
Toulouse
Posts: 2193
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 4:30 pm

RE: Paris Riots, Is It Safe To Fly To CDG/Orly?

Sun Nov 06, 2005 1:49 am

Quoting Pomnath (Reply 20):
Just looks very frightening on television, reminds one of Baghdad when the Americans were invading.

And you must agree, what with Concorde crash and terminal building falling down, we people who are just users or tourists have to think about such things. Maybe nightly fight in suburbs is normal for local people, but we are tourists, if we wanted nightly fights we would have gone somewhere else!!

Pomanth would you PLEASE JUST READ the posts here from us living in France (my case) and others LIVING IN PARIS and you'll see you have nothing worry about!

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 29):
Quoting Blondie75 (Reply 25):
Paris is a great city, and it is very safe, and the airport is also far from being concerned by the nightly riots.

Paris.. a great city?

If one does recall hotels where immigrants lived a few months back were being torched for no apparent reason at all.

Paris.. very safe?

Again, read the above!

My suggestion to anyone that wants to visit Paris, is go and see it! It is much dirtier in person than you could ever imagine. Go and visit Paris!

What's your point?
Long live Aer Lingus!
 
abrelosojos
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RE: Paris Riots, Is It Safe To Fly To CDG/Orly?

Sun Nov 06, 2005 2:05 am

= Very interesting analysis done by all the French. I am sure they are the white majority  Smile. I am from Liechtenstein and trust me, institutions there and most of Europe are extremely bigoted, unjust, and unfair. This is a reality that the French just do not seem to grasp. They might speak of justice, equality, and liberty, but the truth is far from that.

Just returned from Paris and the situation is pretty bad. If you're remotely brown (and being from India, I assume you are), be prepared to be treated with extreme racism. I saw a couple from India in tears because they were accused of falsifying their U.S. passport - which was EXTREMELY strange as I sat next to them on their JFK flight and the man worked for McKinsey and went to the University of Chicago - this was for sure as I went to the same university. Around the whole city, tensions are high. In many of my meetings, the senior French colleagues referred to the rioters and ALL Arabs as "scum" that need to be "eradicated". WOW. I don't think I have ever encountered such harshness even in America. I have a whole new respect for the U.S.

If you're transiting through CDG, you will be fine. Be prepared for unwarranted, unnecessary, biased, and bigotted harassment if you are not white - irrespective of the passport you hold.

TV images do distort stories and in Europe there are horrid stories from all around the world - India, Venezuela, Africa, and even the U.S. (after all, the French have a lot of hate towards them). HOWEVER, unlike in India (or others), the French have no acceptance of the reality around them. They are living in this vacumn, devoid of reality, and in arrogance. This post will cause outrage - a lot of it has to do with the French not accepting that their country is not about justice, equality, and liberty - but deeply racist fundamentally xenophobic land. What the poor Africans/Arabs are facing is NOTHING compared to what the Jews did. This is just the beginning until recognition and true compassion and appreciation of "others" happens.

Some links from "white" and western "colonial" BBC -
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4408972.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4405790.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4399748.stm

Cheers,
A.

Quoting Sebolino (Reply 4):
Here you can see the power of medias.
There is no revolution in France, just a few idiots burning their neighboor's cars.



Quoting Aither (Reply 6):
What the hell do you believe what is happening ?

It is like saying is it safe to fly via JFK because of what's happening in the Bronx ?

Is is safe to fly via DEL because of the tension between Pakistan and India ?

So the answer is it is absolutely safe. Media make these events much bigger than they actually are.
Live, and let live.
 
petazulu
Posts: 683
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2003 3:32 am

RE: Paris Riots, Is It Safe To Fly To CDG/Orly?

Sun Nov 06, 2005 2:08 am

Toulouse,
I agree!, What was his point?
France has issues- this is clear. Perhaps France will now spend a little bit more time looking inwards to itself instead of getting on high horses and criticizing others (esp. the USA). This issue has been waiting to errupt. As a French citizen living in the US, I certainly hope France begins to address its looming issues with immigration, crippling social security, high unemployment, and corrupt governement.
 
abrelosojos
Posts: 4049
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 6:48 am

RE: Paris Riots, Is It Safe To Fly To CDG/Orly?

Sun Nov 06, 2005 2:08 am

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 27):
We should consider importing Jeff Bush from Florida to have a law voted,allowing all french citizens to buy guns and shot at sight....
Seriously - TV are at their best currently showing burning cars and waste-bins.
Politicians in France have done nothing to prevent the isolation of immigrants throughout the last 30 years.( left or right -they all have failed !!)
The set up of "Ghettos" has amplified the integration problems.In Germany you have 3 Million Turks but nothing similar in terms of racial segregation as compared to the situation of maghreb-immigrants in France.
The fault is not only with politicians though-many parents neglect to teach their children social behaviour and respect for property and neighbourhood.
You don't have problems with the asian community in down-town Paris ( Viet-chinese-thai community ) but mainly with third-generation north african and black-african population,who don't see any perspective.
But saying this - come to France and enjoy the country- TV have to make points by selling misery...( they rarely show successfull immigrants who have managed to set up their business..)

= If only more of your countrymates felt like you and actually did something about it. All most always, what the French end up doing is lamenting in their cafes, and then returning home, and doing nothing. Just whining ... just like the undue whining about the U.S. Every French should ask themselves, what have they done. Thanks for standing up. It got a bit too much for me, and I fled. I am happier spiritually here in VZ.

-A.

[Edited 2005-11-05 18:29:08]
Live, and let live.
 
Beaucaire
Posts: 3888
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 4:48 am

RE: Paris Riots, Is It Safe To Fly To CDG/Orly?

Sun Nov 06, 2005 2:23 am

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 36):
= If only more of your countrymates felt like you and actually did something about it. All most French ended up doing is lamenting in their cafes, and then returning home, and doing nothing. Just whining ... just like the undue whining about the U.S. Every French should ask themselves, what have they done. Thanks for standing up. It got a bit too much for me, and I fled. I am happier spiritually here in VZ.

It's off-topic -I know - but France has never ever tackled the deep social problems that are the key to not only racial unrest but also the cause of the increasing two-class- society here.The middle class is losing out and more and more "cadres" slip into poverty.
The political class in France is rotten to the roots -left and right alike !
What happened since six weeks in Marseille ( no public transport at all,the unions boycot a partial privatisation of the transport system ) has paralized hundreds of businesses and cost goes into Millions- but unions are only concerned with powerstruggle and not really in social improvement.
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
Toulouse
Posts: 2193
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 4:30 pm

RE: Paris Riots, Is It Safe To Fly To CDG/Orly?

Sun Nov 06, 2005 2:33 am

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 34):
= Very interesting analysis done by all the French. I am sure they are the white majority . I am from Liechtenstein and trust me, institutions there and most of Europe are extremely bigoted, unjust, and unfair. This is a reality that the French just do not seem to grasp. They might speak of justice, equality, and liberty, but the truth is far from that.

Just returned from Paris and the situation is pretty bad. If you're remotely brown (and being from India, I assume you are), be prepared to be treated with extreme racism. I saw a couple from India in tears because they were accused of falsifying their U.S. passport - which was EXTREMELY strange as I sat next to them on their JFK flight and the man worked for McKinsey and went to the University of Chicago - this was for sure as I went to the same university. Around the whole city, tensions are high. In many of my meetings, the senior French colleagues referred to the rioters and ALL Arabs as "scum" that need to be "eradicated". WOW. I don't think I have ever encountered such harshness even in America. I have a whole new respect for the U.S.

If you're transiting through CDG, you will be fine. Be prepared for unwarranted, unnecessary, biased, and bigotted harassment if you are not white - irrespective of the passport you hold.

TV images do distort stories and in Europe there are horrid stories from all around the world - India, Venezuela, Africa, and even the U.S. (after all, the French have a lot of hate towards them). HOWEVER, unlike in India (or others), the French have no acceptance of the reality around them. They are living in this vacumn, devoid of reality, and in arrogance. This post will cause outrage - a lot of it has to do with the French not accepting that their country is not about justice, equality, and liberty - but deeply racist fundamentally xenophobic land. What the poor Africans/Arabs are facing is NOTHING compared to what the Jews did. This is just the beginning until recognition and true compassion and appreciation of "others" happens.

I totally DISAGREE with just about everything you said! And I'm NOT French, I just live here! As for France being a racist country, there is racism, unfortunately, but I find the French to actually be very open towards foreigners of any colour, I mean the country is full of people from everywhere. There are many many blacks, muslims yoou name it here, living in France, feeling part of the country, fully integrated and who feel French. Of course there are others just living off the overly generous French state and doing nothing else. And your from Liechenstein... So what makes you know so much about France then?

Quoting Petazulu (Reply 35):
Toulouse,
I agree!, What was his point?
France has issues- this is clear. Perhaps France will now spend a little bit more time looking inwards to itself instead of getting on high horses and criticizing others (esp. the USA). This issue has been waiting to errupt. As a French citizen living in the US, I certainly hope France begins to address its looming issues with immigration, crippling social security, high unemployment, and corrupt governement.

I also agree with your post. But I will say I personnally agreed with all of Frances criticism of Bush (not the USA) as is the case in many countries around the world. Apart from that, everything else you said is very true.

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 36):
All most French ended up doing is lamenting in their cafes, and then returning home, and doing nothing. Just whining



Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 36):
= If only more of your countrymates felt like you and actually did something about it. All most French ended up doing is lamenting in their cafes, and then returning home, and doing nothing. Just whining ... just like the undue whining about the U.S. Every French should ask themselves, what have they done. Thanks for standing up. It got a bit too much for me, and I fled. I am happier spiritually here in VZ.

Eres increible Abrelosobos... maybe you should open your own eyes! So you're from Lichenstein, living in S. America yet you must be in France as you claim all the French ahve done is lament thsi incident in cafés and gone home. 1. What do you know? 2. What would YOU do? 3. What do you expect the average French citizen to do (tell me, as I live here and would love to know what I should be doing), 4. What are your sources? i.e. where are you getting your info on how France is responding to this? 5. Can you even tell us what the French government is doing in reaction to this? 6. If you can't anwser these question may I suggest you leave the thread and stick to one you're more knowledgable about! Y qué pases un excelente fin de semana!
Long live Aer Lingus!
 
TomTurner
Posts: 226
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 3:14 am

RE: Paris Riots, Is It Safe To Fly To CDG/Orly?

Sun Nov 06, 2005 2:40 am

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 27):
many parents neglect to teach their children social behaviour and respect for property and neighbourhood.

That doesn't sound very promising for the future.
 
abrelosojos
Posts: 4049
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 6:48 am

RE: Paris Riots, Is It Safe To Fly To CDG/Orly?

Sun Nov 06, 2005 2:48 am

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 38):
Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 34):
= Very interesting analysis done by all the French. I am sure they are the white majority . I am from Liechtenstein and trust me, institutions there and most of Europe are extremely bigoted, unjust, and unfair. This is a reality that the French just do not seem to grasp. They might speak of justice, equality, and liberty, but the truth is far from that.

Just returned from Paris and the situation is pretty bad. If you're remotely brown (and being from India, I assume you are), be prepared to be treated with extreme racism. I saw a couple from India in tears because they were accused of falsifying their U.S. passport - which was EXTREMELY strange as I sat next to them on their JFK flight and the man worked for McKinsey and went to the University of Chicago - this was for sure as I went to the same university. Around the whole city, tensions are high. In many of my meetings, the senior French colleagues referred to the rioters and ALL Arabs as "scum" that need to be "eradicated". WOW. I don't think I have ever encountered such harshness even in America. I have a whole new respect for the U.S.

If you're transiting through CDG, you will be fine. Be prepared for unwarranted, unnecessary, biased, and bigotted harassment if you are not white - irrespective of the passport you hold.

TV images do distort stories and in Europe there are horrid stories from all around the world - India, Venezuela, Africa, and even the U.S. (after all, the French have a lot of hate towards them). HOWEVER, unlike in India (or others), the French have no acceptance of the reality around them. They are living in this vacumn, devoid of reality, and in arrogance. This post will cause outrage - a lot of it has to do with the French not accepting that their country is not about justice, equality, and liberty - but deeply racist fundamentally xenophobic land. What the poor Africans/Arabs are facing is NOTHING compared to what the Jews did. This is just the beginning until recognition and true compassion and appreciation of "others" happens.

I totally DISAGREE with just about everything you said! And I'm NOT French, I just live here! As for France being a racist country, there is racism, unfortunately, but I find the French to actually be very open towards foreigners of any colour, I mean the country is full of people from everywhere. There are many many blacks, muslims yoou name it here, living in France, feeling part of the country, fully integrated and who feel French. Of course there are others just living off the overly generous French state and doing nothing else. And your from Liechenstein... So what makes you know so much about France then?

Quoting Petazulu (Reply 35):
Toulouse,
I agree!, What was his point?
France has issues- this is clear. Perhaps France will now spend a little bit more time looking inwards to itself instead of getting on high horses and criticizing others (esp. the USA). This issue has been waiting to errupt. As a French citizen living in the US, I certainly hope France begins to address its looming issues with immigration, crippling social security, high unemployment, and corrupt governement.

I also agree with your post. But I will say I personnally agreed with all of Frances criticism of Bush (not the USA) as is the case in many countries around the world. Apart from that, everything else you said is very true.

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 36):
All most French ended up doing is lamenting in their cafes, and then returning home, and doing nothing. Just whining



Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 36):
= If only more of your countrymates felt like you and actually did something about it. All most French ended up doing is lamenting in their cafes, and then returning home, and doing nothing. Just whining ... just like the undue whining about the U.S. Every French should ask themselves, what have they done. Thanks for standing up. It got a bit too much for me, and I fled. I am happier spiritually here in VZ.

Eres increible Abrelosobos... maybe you should open your own eyes! So you're from Lichenstein, living in S. America yet you must be in France as you claim all the French ahve done is lament thsi incident in cafés and gone home. 1. What do you know? 2. What would YOU do? 3. What do you expect the average French citizen to do (tell me, as I live here and would love to know what I should be doing), 4. What are your sources? i.e. where are you getting your info on how France is responding to this? 5. Can you even tell us what the French government is doing in reaction to this? 6. If you can't anwser these question may I suggest you leave the thread and stick to one you're more knowledgable about! Y qué pases un excelente fin de semana!

= Haha. This is exactly the response POMNATH you will get from Europeans. Just ask the non-white foreigners in France and they will ALL tell you of harassement stories.

Why am I not suprised when French get suprised when they are attacked about the truth? French people are open minded? Yes, they think cultures are exotic and then they return to their little perfect houses. Come on.

AND, I lived and worked in France for 6 years in Paris with the World Bank resident mission before quitting. I know France extremely well and the worst thing is ALL the racism in France is institutionalized. I have seen it first hand from all ministries. And, if you read my post, I JUST returned from Paris. My flight got back yesterday. AND I SAW the harassment of the Indian by my own eyes.

What I can tell you to do is ... instead of ranting on the post from the comfort of your Toulousian home ... go live a day in the Ghetto and see what they go through ... ask yourself why in a country with significant minority, none have ever been elected, or in media, or cant get into clubs, or into top civil and economic positions ... change begins from educating yourself, and then educating your peers ... not by feeling attacked over a very real reality. Thats called denial ... just like the French government and many of its people have done for so long.

-A.
Live, and let live.
 
mrniji
Posts: 5382
Joined: Sun Feb 29, 2004 11:51 am

RE: Paris Riots, Is It Safe To Fly To CDG/Orly?

Sun Nov 06, 2005 4:04 am

Quoting Aither (Reply 6):
Is is safe to fly via DEL because of the tension between Pakistan and India ?

What is your point? Justifying evil with other evil (they are bad, so we can also be bad) is a wrong strategy.. the stuff that is going on is indeed very shocking, and it is apppropriate and a valid question of Pomnath to raise concerns he has. don't distract from the topic

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 40):
= Haha. This is exactly the response POMNATH you will get from Europeans. Just ask the non-white foreigners in France and they will ALL tell you of harassement stories.

I agree.. ask the non-whites and immigrants as us, we will show you the other side and don't play the PR game.... - Continental Europe is being covered by a wave of Xenophobia

Very bad what is happening.. very bad. since I am remore from Paris, I am sorry I can't provide you with an adequate answer.. but I am noting with concern the trash 99 % of the users have written in this thread, engaging in flamebait instead of giving a proper survey and response to the question
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
Pomnath
Topic Author
Posts: 384
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2005 6:55 am

RE: Paris Riots, Is It Safe To Fly To CDG/Orly?

Sun Nov 06, 2005 4:39 am

All I want to know is whether Paris is safe or not. I regret this thread becoming a pro and anti France episode.

From what I see on television as well as this thread, it seems best to stay away from Paris if possible for some time.

Best wishes to all. Whatever is happening, this sort of rioting and arson is not good. My sympathies for French people.
Sea to Sky, Racists should Die!!
 
User avatar
AirPacific747
Posts: 9251
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 9:52 am

RE: Paris Riots, Is It Safe To Fly To CDG/Orly?

Sun Nov 06, 2005 5:14 am

Quoting Pomnath (Reply 42):
All I want to know is whether Paris is safe or not.

I am pretty sure that if the rioters even just as much as think about invading airports around Paris, the french military would give them a warm welcome. There has often been police with mp5s in the airports when I have landed in french territory.. even on tahiti
 
Trijetman
Posts: 29
Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2004 3:50 am

RE: Paris Riots, Is It Safe To Fly To CDG/Orly?

Sun Nov 06, 2005 5:57 am

No reason to worry; personally, I prefer those kids burn cars in their own neighbourhood rather than mugging people in central Paris late at night because they missed the last trains back to their suburbs and they have nothing better to do...

BTW that is NOT a sarcastic remark - I have lived near Paris for many years and unfortunately the politics have been uncapable to resolve the problem with certain suburbs. Only muslim extremists have been successful in turning some of the kids away from riots and gangbanging... Not really something to be discussed in an aviation forum - until 9/11 repeats itself and I pray it never will. Quite a few French citizens that are accused of being in contact with the Al Qaida-network are originally from suburbs like that.

Maybe it's a good thing the media blow this out of proportion; it will put some pressure on the politics here to do their share in taking care of a global issue.

If you are a regular tourist please enjoy your stay in Paris - it's not more dangerous than other big cities in Europe and still a very beautiful place.
 
Claude
Posts: 52
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2005 10:50 pm

RE: Paris Riots, Is It Safe To Fly To CDG/Orly?

Sun Nov 06, 2005 5:58 am

Pomnath... come on... if you really want to come to Paris, you won't listen this kind of stupid talks from the media...
 
abrelosojos
Posts: 4049
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 6:48 am

RE: Paris Riots, Is It Safe To Fly To CDG/Orly?

Sun Nov 06, 2005 6:12 am

Quoting Trijetman (Reply 44):
No reason to worry; personally, I prefer those kids burn cars in their own neighbourhood rather than mugging people in central Paris late at night because they missed the last trains back to their suburbs and they have nothing better to do...

= This is exactly the type of European white arrogance I talk about. Now Toulouse you understand my cafe comments.

Anyways, Pomnath - you can transit CDG - no one will hurt you - only scar you emotionally using racist xenophobic comments if you have to go through customs control. Oh, and the U.S. and Canada just issued travel warnings to avoid parts of France. Just google the advisory and be careful - not from youths but overzealous French police who think you're brown and illegal. Again, if you remain airside in CDG, you will be fine.

Link - http://www.columbiatribune.com/2005/Nov/20051105News011.asp

-A.
Live, and let live.
 
leelaw
Posts: 4520
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 4:13 pm

RE: Paris Riots, Is It Safe To Fly To CDG/Orly?

Sun Nov 06, 2005 6:28 am

Quoting Pomnath (Reply 42):
All I want to know is whether Paris is safe or not.

I thought your original question was a lot more specific:

Quoting Pomnath (Thread starter):
Considering the heavy riots in France, is it safe to fly via Paris or should one avoid? Any inputs welcome, since we have friends flying via CDG and would like to re-route them in case suggested.

Perhaps you could provide more information. What is your "friends" nascent itinerary (origin, transfer point(s), destination) and which airline(s) are they currently booked on?
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
vanguard737
Posts: 523
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2001 7:02 am

RE: Paris Riots, Is It Safe To Fly To CDG/Orly?

Sun Nov 06, 2005 6:32 am

Quoting Sebolino (Reply 4):
Here you can see the power of medias.
There is no revolution in France, just a few idiots burning their neighboor's cars.



Quoting Aither (Reply 6):
What the hell do you believe what is happening ?

It is like saying is it safe to fly via JFK because of what's happening in the Bronx ?

Is is safe to fly via DEL because of the tension between Pakistan and India ?

So the answer is it is absolutely safe. Media make these events much bigger than they actually are.

AH the double standard!  Smile Some French get so upset with the distortive power of the media when it comes negatively to their nations' image. However, most French are always MORE THAN WILLING to eat up any fodder the media lays down for them if it is directed against the United States, GW, or Iraq. Don't want a huge fight here now, just had to get that off my chest.

Regards

PS I like Europe and France, I was just stating a simple fact.
320 717 722 732 733 735 737 738 744 752 753 763 772 DC9 DC10 MD80 B1900 S340 E120 ERJ CRJ CR7
 
Aither
Posts: 990
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 3:43 am

RE: Paris Riots, Is It Safe To Fly To CDG/Orly?

Sun Nov 06, 2005 6:36 am

My apologies to Pomnath for being a bit rude in my answer.

I'm really pissed of to see the media coverage. It it had been a normal coverage as usual everything would probably be over now.
Never trust the obvious