Nimish
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New BLR Airport Progress - Going On Well

Sat Nov 05, 2005 8:36 pm

From http://epaperdaily.timesofindia.com/...ntityId=Ar00300&ViewMode=HTML&GZ=T

Does seem like the new airport is on track - thank god that s**th**d fighting with the ex-Chairman of BIAL, has not interfered in the progress of the airport.
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TKMCE
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RE: New BLR Airport Progress - Going On Well

Sat Nov 05, 2005 9:04 pm

L and T who is a stake holder in the bLR airport project has got the contract for the airside landside (excpet Terminal building) work of the HYD airport project as as well!

Incidetnally not many people know that the nw NYD and BLR airport projects will have good road connectivity with each other! The NH7 out of BLR runs by the BIAL site and also passess through the HIAL site before approaching HYD city. Even now the journey by road can be covered in about 7 1/2 hours (netween the proposed airports)!

Incidentally the new HYD airport project already has a website. URl is
www.newhyderabadairport.com

Does BIAL have one as well?
 
planeboy
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RE: New BLR Airport Progress - Going On Well

Sat Nov 05, 2005 9:31 pm

Quoting Nimish (Thread starter):
thank god that s**th**d fighting with the ex-Chairman of BIAL, has not interfered in the progress of the airport.

I think its a matter of judistriction. As long as state PWD has something to get its hands on, you can surely expect some spanners to be thrown-in. Then all of us can sit back and watch the fun. They don't seem to have nothing atleast in the airside part of the work.
 
TKMCE
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RE: New BLR Airport Progress - Going On Well

Sat Nov 05, 2005 9:40 pm

What Gowda is sulking abt is the land! Most of the deals were sewed up during Krishna's time.
 
himmat01
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RE: New BLR Airport Progress - Going On Well

Sat Nov 05, 2005 9:42 pm

This is what BIAL will look like once it is complete.



An airplane might disappoint any pilot but it'll never surprise a good one.
 
TKMCE
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RE: New BLR Airport Progress - Going On Well

Sat Nov 05, 2005 9:51 pm

Doubt whether both runways will come up together.Second one might be after quite some time, as is goign to be in HYD.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: New BLR Airport Progress - Going On Well

Sat Nov 05, 2005 10:57 pm

Parallel runways. great.
What direction are the Runways planned.
How far from the Existing Airport is the Project.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
comorin
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RE: New BLR Airport Progress - Going On Well

Sun Nov 06, 2005 12:15 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 6):
Parallel runways. great

What are the benefits of parallel runways- my novice guess is that you have twice the capacity. Do you still alternate takeoffs/landings or do you keep one for takeoff and the other for landing. What happens if the prevailing winds veer and become crosswinds? Are parallel runways only good when you have an unchanging prevailing wind pattern? How do you select between a parallel runway configuration vs a 60 degree configuration?

Is BIAL going to have both runways in Phase 1 or will there be another wait?

Lots of questions! Thanks for any insight.
 
TKMCE
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RE: New BLR Airport Progress - Going On Well

Sun Nov 06, 2005 1:23 am

I doubt BIAL will build both the runways at the same time. The traffic doesnt warrant it and Runways cost money! (unlike what a lot of people think!). HIAL-that is the HYD project- is not building it any time soon, although the entire land for the phase 2 -the 2nd runway and later the 2nd terminal- has already been acquired and fenced off . Before someone says land grab!,it is not so - it is common sense - else in India you will struggle for land later when the need comes.
 
stealthpilot
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RE: New BLR Airport Progress - Going On Well

Sun Nov 06, 2005 6:51 am

Correct, initially only one runway will be built in BLR. The parallel runway will come up in phase 2. When the airport is fully operational Bangalore will have the fastest growing airport in the country, hopefully no holding back!
The new BLR and HYD airports will be very exciting. I hope it won't become another form of competition  Smile
-Nikhil
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UALAX
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RE: New BLR Airport Progress - Going On Well

Sun Nov 06, 2005 1:11 pm

Thanks for the update. My parents are from B'lore and I can't wait to use the new airport. A couple of questions:

Has the government started work on widening the highway to BIAL?
I heard there was going to be a shuttle from Bangalore Cantonment to BIAL, is that still the plan?
Being India, the airport will be named after someone, any guesses on who? Please no Deve Gowda International!

-This is kinda a random question, but once the airport is built, will the PA announcements be trilingual? Kannada/English/Hindi?

-I'm hoping there's an MTR in the new airport, or at least something besides Cafe Coffee Day.
 
comorin
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RE: New BLR Airport Progress - Going On Well

Sun Nov 06, 2005 1:38 pm

Quoting UALAX (Reply 10):
Being India, the airport will be named after someone, any guesses on who? Please no Deve Gowda International

OK, time for a thread hijack! My choices for a name for BIAL:

1. Infosys International Airport
2. Outsourced International Airport
3. Pure-Veg. International Airport
3. Better-Late-than-Never International Airport.

 Smile
 
Nimish
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RE: New BLR Airport Progress - Going On Well

Mon Nov 07, 2005 3:33 am

Quoting UALAX (Reply 10):
Has the government started work on widening the highway to BIAL?
I heard there was going to be a shuttle from Bangalore Cantonment to BIAL, is that still the plan?
Being India, the airport will be named after someone, any guesses on who? Please no Deve Gowda International!

-This is kinda a random question, but once the airport is built, will the PA announcements be trilingual? Kannada/English/Hindi?


Yes - the highway from the suburbs to BIAL is being widened. Unfortunately the stretch from the city to the suburbs will remain as is, because there's not scope to widen it Sad

The shuttle from Cantt. to BIAL is on hold (that's what I heard). Some confusion on Railways + State Govt + BIAL. I wish to god they would build this soon - otherwise it's going to be a bitch to get to the new airport.

In a perverse kind of way - I'd be very glad if they called it Deve Gowda Intl Airport - as that would mean he's no more  Smile

The announcements would logically be trilingual - they often are in the current BLR airport (but not always).
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blrBird
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RE: New BLR Airport Progress - Going On Well

Mon Nov 07, 2005 10:54 am

Quoting TKMCE (Reply 1):
Does BIAL have one as well?

Yes, www.bialairport.com. But it is under construction from 2002, just like the airport! For some reason BIAL has been very secretive about it plans/info etc(not publicly available) ... Unlike the new HYD airport which is more open.

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 6):
What direction are the Runways planned.

East-West

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 6):
How far from the Existing Airport is the Project.

Aprox 16 NM(distance in air)

Quoting Comorin (Reply 7):
Is BIAL going to have both runways in Phase 1?

nope, Phase 1 one runway (dimensions 13200L/148.5W feet). Here is the image of phase one...


Quoting Comorin (Reply 7):
or will there be another wait?

There is some talk going on to pre-empt the construction of 2nd runway from earlier planned date, but for sure it won't come up when airport opens in 2008!

Quoting TKMCE (Reply 8):
The traffic doesn't warrant it

May be some A.netter can my answer question, with the runway that BIAL is constructing what kind traffic can it handle? Aircraft landings/takeoffs per hour/day and PAX (in millions)?

Quoting Stealthpilot (Reply 9):
I hope it won't become another form of competition

isn't competition always good?

Quoting UALAX (Reply 10):
Deve Gowda International!

NEVER may be Kempe Gowda (King & founder of BLR) or Sir.M.Vishweshwaraiah (Dewan & architect of modern Karnataka), these are my guesses, so don't count on it  Smile

Quoting UALAX (Reply 10):
PA announcements be trilingual?

Yes

Quoting Comorin (Reply 11):
My choices

Good ones  Smile

Quoting UALAX (Reply 10):
I'm hoping there's an MTR in the new airport

You bet!

BIAL terminal:
We'll have to wait and see who will win the battle (Praful Patel or BIAL) as far as terminal building is concerned. After watching this animation (for those who have not seen this before) I have to side with PP, he has valid point. The current design is kind based on railway station terminal (arrivals and departures on the same level), it looks so lame & dull! Come on BIAL even AAI is doing much better job now a day!

Is this the norm? Most of bigger (BLR hoping to be one!) airports being built now have arrivals on 1st floor and departures on 2nd? Also it is very small terminal (538,196 sqft) with 4 or 5 aero bridges. In comparison new HYD airport will have a lot bigger terminal (1,076,391 sqft), 10 aero bridges and multi level.

I am being skeptical here, did Karnataka make the right choice by choosing this consortium (Siemens+Unique+L&T), and I have a bad feeling about the product that they are offering to Bangalore after reading/looking at their plans.

Hoping that I am wrong about this feeling!
from star dust....
 
TKMCE
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RE: New BLR Airport Progress - Going On Well

Mon Nov 07, 2005 12:15 pm

Quoting BlrBird (Reply 13):
am being skeptical here, did Karnataka make the right choice by choosing this consortium (Siemens+Unique+L&T), and I have a bad feeling about the product that they are offering to Bangalore after reading/look

Dont worry about that! All three know their job! As I mentioned, even the HYD airisde/landside contract went to L and T despite them being a partner in BLR, which is an indication of their professional expertise!
 
UALAX
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RE: New BLR Airport Progress - Going On Well

Mon Nov 07, 2005 1:47 pm

Quoting BlrBird (Reply 13):
Is this the norm? Most of bigger (BLR hoping to be one!) airports being built now have arrivals on 1st floor and departures on 2nd? Also it is very small terminal (538,196 sqft) with 4 or 5 aero bridges. In comparison new HYD airport will have a lot bigger terminal (1,076,391 sqft), 10 aero bridges and multi level.

Will BIAL really only have 4-5 aerobridges? That's unacceptable. Yes I do hope that BIAL does get its act together. After so many years of waiting, it would be horrible to see BLR end up with a mediocre airport.

As far as names go....

Purandaradasa International (maybe hard to pronounce)

Tipu Sultan Intl?
 
planeboy
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RE: New BLR Airport Progress - Going On Well

Mon Nov 07, 2005 6:43 pm

A main factor in the success of the BIAL would be its connectivity to city. With Gowda being against Metro project, the only option to connect to city is through Road (NH7). If Bangalore sustains the same growth rate for next year or two, this road will be congested with Interstate Buses, BMTC, Rural transport, trucks, cars + airport-city bound vehicles etc etc. There isn't much to hear about this crucial connectivity problem. Hopefully someone in the govt will wakeup at the right moment!

Now to something else:

Earlier it was told that the existing HAL airport will be closed for commercial aircrafts once the BIAL is open. I am hearing things about Air Deccan (DN) wanting to continue at HAL airport (cannot confirm). With the current state of affairs, I would chose HAL airport anyday than commuting to BIAL on NH7.
 
Nimish
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RE: New BLR Airport Progress - Going On Well

Mon Nov 07, 2005 6:51 pm

Quoting Planeboy (Reply 16):
Hopefully someone in the govt will wakeup at the right moment!

Not a chance - at least not with this govt. The rail link to the airport is almost mandatory - but they don't seem keen on that any more. A fast train service every 30 minutes from Cantt. to the airport would be ideal.

Quoting Planeboy (Reply 16):
Earlier it was told that the existing HAL airport will be closed for commercial aircrafts once the BIAL is open. I am hearing things about Air Deccan (DN) wanting to continue at HAL airport (cannot confirm). With the current state of affairs, I would chose HAL airport anyday than commuting to BIAL on NH7.

I think the old airport cannot be kept open after the new one is in place (Despite what DN says/wants). There was talk of an agreement to this effect being signed as a pre-condition to the BIAL taking off.

Personally I'd love to have the choice - the new airport would be great for international flights - where lounges/dutyfree shopping etc. make a sea of difference. The current HAL airport is ideal for short commuter hops to MAA/GOI etc. Longer mainline flights (DEL/BOM/CCU etc.) could well be from the new airport. Any such seperation implies it's the end of BLR's chance of becoming a hub of any standing.
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TKMCE
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RE: New BLR Airport Progress - Going On Well

Tue Nov 08, 2005 1:12 am

Connectivity is imprtant and no better testiimony to that thn the one at Cochi. The main eailway line from Cochin to the north literally skirts the boundary wall of the airport, and still no one has even thought of building a station. Try commuting using public transport to CIAL. It is a nightmare and expensive as well!

MAA is even more interesting! There is a suburban line (as also the main MAA IXM railway line) running near the airport but despte the AAI website saying that MAA airport has a rail station, you have to cross a 4 line Natiional Highway to reach the place! And interestingly the station is not named MAA airport and instead named "Tirusoolam", while another station "Meenambakkam" which is what many people still refer the airport as, is actually three km before the actual airport station!

Sorry to digress a little, but connectivity in Indian airports is sokmething which needs to improve ina very big way! Righnow the airport taxi drivers lobby seems to be winning hands down literally everywhere!
 
JOYA380B747
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RE: New BLR Airport Progress - Going On Well

Tue Nov 08, 2005 1:16 am

Quoting UALAX (Reply 15):
Tipu Sultan Intl?

Yeah thats a good name...easy to pronouce and sounds good as well.
If it wasn't for AI and those money mongers sitting in the parliament, 9W would have been as big as SQ...:(
 
TKMCE
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RE: New BLR Airport Progress - Going On Well

Tue Nov 08, 2005 1:38 am

Actually it would have been nice if someone had taken the lead and named any Indian airport as "JRD Tata International" just like Sydney has done with "Kingsford Smith". But fat chance of it we have in India, where politicans licking their masters boots dominate the show!
 
lh477
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RE: New BLR Airport Progress - Going On Well

Tue Nov 08, 2005 3:23 am

Quoting UALAX (Reply 10):
Being India, the airport will be named after someone, any guesses on who?

How about M.K. Gandhi Int'l....He's not from there, but the father of the nation
deserves it.
Come on you gunners......!!!!!
 
blrsea
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RE: New BLR Airport Progress - Going On Well

Tue Nov 08, 2005 3:49 am

Quoting LH477 (Reply 21):
How about M.K. Gandhi Int'l....He's not from there, but the father of the nation
deserves it.

Sorry, MK Gandhi's name doesn't buy votes anymore. As of now, no name is proposed, but there will be huge pressures from various groups for naming it after their idols. Kempe Gowda, Sir M Visveswaraiah and Tipu Sultan are all in the running. Many more might come up as the airport nears completion. There will probably be committees set up to look into this issue, and the name would probably be someone from Karnataka state, whose capital is Bangalore.
 
stealthpilot
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RE: New BLR Airport Progress - Going On Well

Tue Nov 08, 2005 12:04 pm

Quoting BlrBird (Reply 13):
isn't competition always good?

Certainly, I was implying that presently the cities of HYD and BLR are competing fiercely, and the prestige of their new airports will add to that. I guess i meant i hope the airports will not become another thing to fight over  Smile

Quoting UALAX (Reply 15):
Tipu Sultan Intl?

That's what i would vote for (given the chance obviously)

Quoting BlrBird (Reply 13):

5 aerobridges is of course unacceptable. I believe that was the minimums to start operations, and expand from there. Every flight barring the ATRs and low cost carriers (if they chose) should have its dedicated gate and bridges. I hope and hope and hope that Siemens/Unique don't mess this up!

I don't believe there is any doubt among the politicians that there needs to be a quick transit system to the airport, the problem is the funding. Well, Deve Gowda probably doesn�t believe in the need for mass transport -o well.

-Nikhil
eP007
 
TKMCE
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RE: New BLR Airport Progress - Going On Well

Tue Nov 08, 2005 12:26 pm

This obsession on Aerobridges is quite miselading. Actually not every airline (even Full service) prefer aerobridges.

For one , boarding can considerably be speeded up when boarding is through both front and rear - not possible with Aerobridges.

Second in times of recession, the saving made on aerobrdiges (for a regular user) is not insignificant.

And belive me - Siemens /Unique know their job.

[Edited 2005-11-08 04:27:33]
 
planeboy
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RE: New BLR Airport Progress - Going On Well

Tue Nov 08, 2005 12:49 pm

Quoting Blrsea (Reply 22):
Kempe Gowda, Sir M Visveswaraiah and Tipu Sultan are all in the running.

Sir MVV name is most fitting and deserving. His birthplace is quite closer to BIAL. He was a rare visionary who brought prosperity to the region and his works still stand the test of time. If southern Karnataka is what it is today (where BLR is incidentally located), it is because of him.

But I think Kempe 'Gowda' is what is going to come through for you-know-why reasons.
 
stealthpilot
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RE: New BLR Airport Progress - Going On Well

Thu Nov 10, 2005 12:24 pm

Quoting TKMCE (Reply 24):
This obsession on Aerobridges is quite miselading. Actually not every airline (even Full service) prefer aerobridges.

True, but a new international airport needs to be functional, modern and look great! Having only 5 aerobridges and 20 aircrafts sitting about waiting for buses to drive around passengers is not exactly what we want a sparkling new airport to look like. There is no recession, the city should spend the money and build a top class facility, there's no second chance. The bigger an airport gets, the harder it is to run buses to aircrafts, where in the world are new airports built which rely on buses?


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Adrian Thompson



Quoting TKMCE (Reply 24):
And belive me - Siemens /Unique know their job.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Helmut Bierbaum



I guess i would agree. (and keep my fingers crossed)

-Nikhil
eP007
 
Pomnath
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RE: New BLR Airport Progress - Going On Well

Thu Nov 10, 2005 12:39 pm

I still think the existing airport will "evolve" to just become better. All "they" have to do is relocate certain bits of the HAL facilities themselves . . .
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abrelosojos
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RE: New BLR Airport Progress - Going On Well

Thu Nov 10, 2005 12:46 pm

The airports looks awfully small to me.

-A.
Live, and let live.
 
Pomnath
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RE: New BLR Airport Progress - Going On Well

Thu Nov 10, 2005 1:50 pm

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 28):
The airports looks awfully small to me.

Get in and out quickly, a small airport is just fine. Trouble starts when airports try to reinvent themselves as shopping centres. There are many small airports in India which have over the last few years suddenly started working more passengers, so the buzzword is throughput.

I think small and efficient is excellent, just take a look at London City? Crisp is the word that comes to mind, not small.
Sea to Sky, Racists should Die!!
 
abrelosojos
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RE: New BLR Airport Progress - Going On Well

Thu Nov 10, 2005 2:11 pm

LCY is a horrible airport. As a passenger, I truly appreciate airports which are more than just in-out airports. I even try to schedule my flights through them - and thats additional revenue for the airport - besides the concessions they get from the vendors. If the formla is wrong ... ask ICN, SIN, KUL, PVG, NGO, KIX ...

-A.
Live, and let live.
 
Pomnath
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RE: New BLR Airport Progress - Going On Well

Thu Nov 10, 2005 2:54 pm

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 30):
As a passenger, I truly appreciate airports which are more than just in-out airports

Agreed, but we are a nation in a hurry, and as of now the priorities are in-out efficiently. Spend on the operational requirements, the frills will follow, that seems to be the working arrangement right now.
Sea to Sky, Racists should Die!!
 
abrelosojos
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RE: New BLR Airport Progress - Going On Well

Thu Nov 10, 2005 2:57 pm

Quoting Pomnath (Reply 31):
but we are a nation in a hurry

= I don't think Bangalore Airport would be a good example of a nation in a hurry  Wink -

A.
Live, and let live.
 
Pomnath
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RE: New BLR Airport Progress - Going On Well

Thu Nov 10, 2005 3:11 pm

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 32):
I don't think Bangalore Airport would be a good example of a nation in a hurry -

Uhhhhm, if you look at growth through the specific prism of increased traffic, you will agree that Bangalore Airport has grown in a hurry from a sleepy outpost ten years ago to one that is always functional.

Yes, there have been delays in the bidding and contract for a new airport, but so what?

Please also take a look at how India's road network has come up, how the underground railway/metros have come up and most of all, the social changes that increased aviation have brought.

Yes, the terminals are still behind in time, but in a way, that has been a blessing. The efficiencies are in position. Airlines like SpiceJet now manage 20-minute turnarounds for full load B-737-800 aircraft from small airports like Jammu and Pune, for example.
Sea to Sky, Racists should Die!!
 
blrsea
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RE: New BLR Airport Progress - Going On Well

Thu Nov 10, 2005 4:12 pm

Quoting Pomnath (Reply 27):
I still think the existing airport will "evolve" to just become better. All "they" have to do is relocate certain bits of the HAL facilities themselves . . .

HAL cannot shift their facilities anywhere else. The airport actually belongs to HAL and it was constructed/used for HAL purposes. HAL has a big campus right next to the airport and they use it to do all their testing. HAL, CAB, ASTE, NAL are all next to each other quite close to the airport, each of which require access to the airport for testing. And there is limited land available there for expansion. There is not enough land to build new terminals, nor enough land to build additional runway, aprons, parking spaces etc. There is not even enough land to build more parking lots for vehicles. It is a pain finding a parking spot, especially at night when all the widebodies are scheduled. As the AAI people themself admit, HAL airport has reached the limits of its growth.
 
TKMCE
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RE: New BLR Airport Progress - Going On Well

Thu Nov 10, 2005 5:07 pm

Quoting Stealthpilot (Reply 26):
True, but a new international airport needs to be functional, modern and look great! Having only 5 aerobridges and 20 aircrafts sitting about waiting for buses to drive around passengers is not exactly what we want a sparkling new airport to look like

But on the other side, you will find that BLR will never have that high dendity of widebody flights as BOM or DEL forget FRA or LHR. And literally every new airline starting up in India is an LCC which will prefer not to use aero bridges, esp if they are going to cost more than using buses and slows things up to boot!!!

I think GVA had this problem when they built a no frills terminal for LCC and full service AF wanted to shift there as well!
 
abrelosojos
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RE: New BLR Airport Progress - Going On Well

Thu Nov 10, 2005 10:05 pm

= WOW. This is new for me - criticizing India  Smile -

Quoting Pomnath (Reply 33):
specific prism

= Only an India would use that word paid  Smile.

Quoting Pomnath (Reply 33):
but so what?

= So a lot of things - its reflective of an India that changes slowly ... and I think that is a GOOD thing as it avoids the social turmoil cost of change.

Quoting Pomnath (Reply 33):
Please also take a look at how India's road network has come up, how the underground railway/metros have come up and most of all, the social changes that increased aviation have brought.

= Are you serious? There is one barely functional metro in Delhi ... the one in Calcutta took from 1984 to 1998 to make 34 kms or something.

Quoting Pomnath (Reply 33):
Yes, the terminals are still behind in time, but in a way, that has been a blessing. The efficiencies are in position. Airlines like SpiceJet now manage 20-minute turnarounds for full load B-737-800 aircraft from small airports like Jammu and Pune, for example.

= I dont think flying out of Jammu would be considered efficient when its the only flight in town and it takes 20 mins.

Finally, I think India is doing great - and I definitely believe its on course to becoming a global economic superpower - but I think its important for a few Indians to be cognizant of its current status and work towards moving it forward.

-A.
Live, and let live.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: New BLR Airport Progress - Going On Well

Thu Nov 10, 2005 10:53 pm

Quoting Comorin (Reply 7):
What are the benefits of parallel runways

The Intersecting ones deprive simultaneous operations.An Incident on the Intersection renders both Runways u/s.
Both can be used for Simultaneous T/O & Landings or Alt as per trafffic.
The letter L/R will denote the runway type.

Quoting UALAX (Reply 15):
As far as names go

I'll go for JRD Tata International,As it should be named after someone who contributed to Indian Aviation.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
Pomnath
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RE: New BLR Airport Progress - Going On Well

Thu Nov 10, 2005 11:35 pm

Quoting Blrsea (Reply 34):
HAL cannot shift their facilities anywhere else. The airport actually belongs to HAL and it was constructed/used for HAL purposes. HAL has a big campus right next to the airport and they use it to do all their testing. HAL, CAB, ASTE, NAL are all next to each other quite close to the airport, each of which require access to the airport for testing. And there is limited land available there for expansion. There is not enough land to build new terminals, nor enough land to build additional runway, aprons, parking spaces etc. There is not even enough land to build more parking lots for vehicles. It is a pain finding a parking spot, especially at night when all the widebodies are scheduled. As the AAI people themself admit, HAL airport has reached the limits of its growth.

As Bangalore grows, having a top-end aviation and space research facility in the middle of town will become more a problem than a joy. I am sure you are aware of some of the other locations where HAL, ISRO, IAF and the other organisations are growing.

As for terminals and parking lots, there is always upwards growth as well as underground. And Bangalore is far from runway saturation.

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 36):
There is one barely functional metro in Delhi ... the one in Calcutta took from 1984 to 1998 to make 34 kms or something.

Yes, the Calcuta Metro took forever. Next came the Metro in Delhi which is state of the art, spotlessly clean, is running over-crowded and was constructed way ahead of schedule. The Delhi metro technology to other countries is a separate profit centre. And work on similar projects is underway in Hyderabad. Please give credit where it is due.

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 36):
I dont think flying out of Jammu would be considered efficient when its the only flight in town and it takes 20 mins.

Sorry? There are over at least 8 scheduled flights into Jammu everyday, more on some days, from Delhi, Srinagar, Leh and Chandigarh. There is a runway, a basic building, and it works.
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TKMCE
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RE: New BLR Airport Progress - Going On Well

Fri Nov 11, 2005 2:57 am

Quoting Pomnath (Reply 38):
And work on similar projects is underway in Hyderabad. Please give credit where it is du

Hyderabad MRTS is an overland system (not underground) and is massively under utilised (except when the state bus undertaking employees go on strike)! The main reason is the evil which plagues all other Indian transportation projects. Lack of multi modal connectivity! Similar thing in Chennai (which has a aerial - monorail type) MRTS system but again the same will be fully effective only once the extension to St Thomas Mount is complete. And MAA airport - if only the powers that be either construct an underground or overhead passage way to the station opposite !- The challenges of crossing the four lane national highway to access the "official" airport train station are now so formidable that the passengers decide that being ripped off by the taxi cartel is a safer proposiition.

Pomnath

What is the big deal having a 30 minute (not 20 as as you claim) turnaround for Spice Jet at Jammu? Yeah Jammu has 8 flights a day! So what??? You will be lucky to find two aircraft there at the same time!


Quoting Pomnath (Reply 38):
And Bangalore is far from runway saturation.

There is also something called Parking stand avaiabilty! Look at HYD - they were struggling to coope up with all that growth in the current Begumpet! BLR is not much better - and infact the airport had a 36% increase in domestic aircraft movements over last year . Now how has the facilties properationtely increased - hardly by much!

Quoting Pomnath (Reply 29):
Trouble starts when airports try to reinvent themselves as shopping centres.

Well things are changing . CIAL is run as a commercial venture And there are private investors in there whileboth HIAL and BIAL both will have a 74% stake by private players. Non Aero Revenue is going to contribute to a major share of their revenues. And CIAL already has the reputation of the best duty free setup in India comparable to world standards (it is contracted out to a major player in the duty free scene and is not ITDC run as in the case of most other arports). This will only bring in passengers.
Let us face the fact- currently because of the terrible congestion at both Begumpet (HYD) and HIAL (BLR) airports, many international passengers even prefer to break their journey at BOM (lesser of the evils???!) rather than going through the chaos at 2 AM in the morning by taking a non stop flight to either BLR or HYD!
 
stealthpilot
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RE: New BLR Airport Progress - Going On Well

Fri Nov 11, 2005 6:48 am

Quoting Pomnath (Reply 31):
Agreed, but we are a nation in a hurry, and as of now the priorities are in-out efficiently.

We still need a modern, big airport with shops/restaurants/entertainment centers etc. Airports might not need to reinvent themselves as 'shopping centers', but they certainly need to reinvent themselves as something other than just a basic in-out PWD building.

Quoting TKMCE (Reply 35):

But on the other side, you will find that BLR will never have that high dendity of widebody flights as BOM or DEL forget FRA or LHR. And literally every new airline starting up in India is an LCC which will prefer not to use aero bridges, esp if they are going to cost more than using buses and slows things up to boot!!!

So what if BLR doesn’t receive the high density wide body traffic that BOM or DEL will have? This new airport is designed to cater to the traffic needs of the city for the next few decades; at which time it will be more than 35 million pax/year.
The bigger an airport gets the lower the time advantage of buses becomes. Having boarding from the front and back saves time no doubt, but so does herding up passengers to driving them to the plane. It’s very possible to fill a 737/320 in 20 mins with an aerobridge.
There was some thought (maybe still is) about building a terminal dedicated to LCC's. Even if some low cost operators chose to have buses- airlines like 9W, IT, IC, AI, S2 (if they last) etc will all grow, and in 10 years the airport will need more than 30 aerobridges.
Look at Stansted and Luton, they might not have aerobridges at every gate but the aircrafts park at the terminal and passengers board through a dedicated 'gate' and walk down to the aircraft. There is no (big) ground floor type bus system to drive passengers around, what's FR s turn around time?

Quoting TKMCE (Reply 39):

Well things are changing . CIAL is run as a commercial venture And there are private investors in there whileboth HIAL and BIAL both will have a 74% stake by private players. Non Aero Revenue is going to contribute to a major share of their revenues. And CIAL already has the reputation of the best duty free setup in India comparable to world standards (it is contracted out to a major player in the duty free scene and is not ITDC run as in the case of most other arports). This will only bring in passengers.
Let us face the fact- currently because of the terrible congestion at both Begumpet (HYD) and HIAL (BLR) airports, many international passengers even prefer to break their journey at BOM (lesser of the evils???!) rather than going through the chaos at 2 AM in the morning by taking a non stop flight to either BLR or HYD!

hey we agree on something  Smile

-Nikhil
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TKMCE
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RE: New BLR Airport Progress - Going On Well

Sat Nov 12, 2005 1:06 am

Aerobrige - As oppposed to a non aerobridge stand - is both costly and hinders boarding, What you mention in LTN and STN are non contact stands (but not remote) which is fine. Remember many LCCS dont have pre assigned seating and if you use aerobridges you cannnot board through both front and rear ! And that will SLOW up things. And time is money for an LCC!

Saying you need 30, you need 50 aerobridges etc all sound good - but an airport also have to have cost considerations - esp BIAL, HIAL etc where profit making is the primary objective - not social service of making politicans avoid being bussed to the aircraft!Building50 aerobridges is crazt d if you have demand mainly from 2100-0200 (where most of the European/Far East wide bodies leave from BLR or HYD). This will mean much of the expensive equipment will remain massively under utilised during the remaining time, all the time raking upmaintenance costs.

And remember BLR has a good number of smaller aircraft - ATR42s (Jet/Deccan), CRJSs (Sahara)/ERJS (Air One/Paramount- both soon to start) and for them it is unlikely they are going to use aerobridges anyway. And Spice and Deccan or GO will not perfer aerobriges unless they are forced to!


Dont under estimate the value of costs - despite the impressive domestic traffic out of COK, it took two years for Deccan to start services there (due to the high charges being levied by the sole ground handler - Air India). Even now, I dont think Deccan is too happy with the situation and I heard that is one of the reasons why AGX service has been put on the backburner for the
time being.
 
snehnath
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RE: New BLR Airport Progress - Going On Well

Sat Nov 12, 2005 6:39 am

On the subject of aerobridges, isn't the cost of one aerobridge about $150,000? Someone please correct me if I am wrong. This was the number I calculated from another post on a.net about new aerobridges being constructed in Dubuque, IA.
 
Nimish
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RE: New BLR Airport Progress - Going On Well

Sun Nov 13, 2005 11:15 pm

An update on the current HAL airport at BLR: The area just outside the arrivals terminal is undergoing some sort of expansion activity. I wonder if they've made any changes to the international arrivals/departures to cater to the increased flights from BLR.
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stealthpilot
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RE: New BLR Airport Progress - Going On Well

Wed Nov 16, 2005 9:39 am

Quoting Nimish (Reply 43):
I wonder if they've made any changes to the international arrivals/departures to cater to the increased flights from BLR.

I believe they have, I heard they renovated the terminal. Visitors can�t go upstairs to drop family off because check-ins are now done on the ground floor. I won�t fly into the BLR international terminal for another month, anyone else can let us know?
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blrBird
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RE: New BLR Airport Progress - Going On Well

Wed Nov 16, 2005 1:34 pm

Quoting TKMCE (Reply 14):
Dont worry about that! All three know their job! As I mentioned, even the HYD airisde/landside contract went to L and T despite them being a partner in BLR, which is an indication of their professional expertise!



Quoting TKMCE (Reply 24):
And belive me - Siemens /Unique know their job.

I never did doubt their PROFESSIONAL expertise! But are they delivering it? is my doubt. Watch the new BLR airport animation(here is the link in case) Does it even look any thing close to the other brand new green field airports that have/are coming in the world today? IMO don’t think so. When you read statements made by CEO of BIAL to media like...

Quote:
Our aim is not to build the nicest airport in terms of architecture;

Why not?

Quote:
What will set Bangalore apart from the rest of Indian airports?
Here, for example, I'd like to ease the passenger flow. It's not a good idea to screen the baggage first before somebody checks in.

As if no other airport in world does this?

Not only these things they are plenty of other instances where this consortium has been back peddling about the whole project when compared to Hyderabad airport consortium.
BIAL wanted to bench mark (rate) its new project to existing Indian airports not against the world wide standards! I can go on with the rant…

Come on given Indians a world class airport(s) they do deserve it! Or what’s the point in calling in world wide bidding process?

(Off topic – read the case study of Toyota’s (great/professional company etc) India venture! Why did they did stop production of their hot selling Quails brand vehicle)

Quoting TKMCE (Reply 24):
- not possible with Aerobridges.

Not ture..look at this image. Boarding from 2 doors on a SQ 747 @ CDG
http://www.airliners.net/open.file?i...r=33&prev_id=957064&next_id=957012

Quoting TKMCE (Reply 24):
Second in times of recession, the saving made on aerobridges (for a regular user) is not insignificant.

What recession are we talking about? I agree with cost benefit, why not fork out more money upfront and get returns over a longer period (hope BIAL not planning on being in black the 1st year of operation!)

Quoting Blrsea (Reply 34):
And there is limited land available there for expansion. There is not enough land to build new terminals, nor enough land to build additional runway, aprons, parking spaces etc. There is not even enough land to build more parking lots for vehicles. It is a pain finding a parking spot, especially at night when all the widebodies are scheduled. As the AAI people themselves admit, HAL airport has reached the limits of its growth.

True.. these images tell the story of current BLR HAL airport

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Nimish
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RE: New BLR Airport Progress - Going On Well

Wed Nov 16, 2005 5:40 pm

Today's local news papers report that the rail link to the new airport is still under "active consideration". I wonder if it will ever get to "implementation" stage - I sure hope it does, but none of the articles suggest it is likely to start off any time soon.
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RE: New BLR Airport Progress - Going On Well

Wed Nov 16, 2005 6:26 pm

Quoting Nimish (Reply 46):
Today's local news papers report that the rail link to the new airport is still under "active consideration"

If only a Rail link could be provided for Mumbai.And Trains with Doors too  Smile
Any Name proposed.
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TKMCE
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RE: New BLR Airport Progress - Going On Well

Thu Nov 17, 2005 12:00 am

Quoting BlrBird (Reply 45):
I never did doubt their PROFESSIONAL expertise! But are they delivering it? is my doubt. Watch the new BLR airport animation(here is the link in case) Does it even look any thing close to the other brand new green field airports that have/are coming in the world today? IMO don’t think so. When you read statements made by CEO of BIAL to media like...

Hey buddy - relax! They have just started off. Dont be put off by the fact that HYD tem has put out a better multi media presentation for the general public. But frankly if you ask me , it is not the number one priority right now, giving orientation visits and multimedia demos to the general public. There is time enough for that closer to launch of commercial operations. If you ask me BLR is doing the right thing concentrating on the real job in hand. 2 months after construction started is not the time to comment whether BIAL is delivering the goods or not.

Quoting BlrBird (Reply 45):
Quoting TKMCE (Reply 24):
- not possible with Aerobridges.

Not ture..look at this image. Boarding from 2 doors on a SQ 747 @ CDG
http://www.airliners.net/open.file?i...57012

Please dont distort my original post. I said

" boarding can considerably be speeded up when boarding is through both front and rear"

Now what you show is boarding from two forward doors, which is not going to speeden up things much.

Quoting BlrBird (Reply 45):
Quote:
What will set Bangalore apart from the rest of Indian airports?
Here, for example, I'd like to ease the passenger flow. It's not a good idea to screen the baggage first before somebody checks in.

No other airport in India currently has it but it is going to be there in HYD and if AAI is to be believed some of the new AAI terminals coming up such as in AMD will have it too.

I thought this was a well done interview given by a person who is pragmatic. And I certainly agree about the challenges in introducing new things - you will not beliee th amoint of approvals and clearances required to implement things like the baggage screening system which BIAL wants!
 
jaysit
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RE: New BLR Airport Progress - Going On Well

Thu Nov 17, 2005 12:37 am

Quoting TKMCE (Reply 24):
This obsession on Aerobridges is quite miselading. Actually not every airline (even Full service) prefer aerobridges.

For one , boarding can considerably be speeded up when boarding is through both front and rear - not possible with Aerobridges.

Uhh. Says who?

Studies have shown that a single aerobridge can offload pax faster than 2 mobile stairs. Clambering down a flight of stairs is significantly lengthier than walking through an aerobridge. Also, aerobridges use up less energy than gasoline driven mobile stairs and provide a level of convenience far greater than any mobile staircase.

As usual, when India builds an airport, they build it for the prior decade. When Sahar Int. Airport was opened in Bombay in 1980, it was already 10 years behind the times.
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