Goldenshield
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Aircraft Incident At HOU. Any Info? (Citation Crash)

Sun Nov 06, 2005 1:15 am

HOU was just placed in a ground stop. Anyone know what happened down there?
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D L X
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Aircraft Incident At HOU. Any Info? (Citation Crash)

Sun Nov 06, 2005 2:53 am

Apparently (according to CNN, the ultimate name in aviation news), a private jet crashed during some sort of traffic control issue with "a 737" which was then diverted to IAH. Both people aboud the private jet (which CNN said was a Cessna Citation) were killed.
 
FlyHoss
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Aircraft Incident At HOU. Any Info? (Citation Crash)

Sun Nov 06, 2005 3:03 am

I saw a WN 737 at IAH around 10:30 a.m. in the new Canyon Blue colors (might have been a -300). As you know, WN doesn't serve IAH anymore, so I wondered why it was there (a charter, perhaps? Why would there be a diversion from HOU on such a nice day?).
Maybe that was the "involved" 737. Too soon to tell, though...
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OPNLguy
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Aircraft Incident At HOU. Any Info? (Citation Crash)

Sun Nov 06, 2005 3:05 am

One of the local stations in Houston has a little more info, and it makes the situation a little more bizzare. ATC told the Citation to move off the runway (to clear it for the 737 which had some type of problem) and apparently "moved off" the runway by "taking off" and then came back around, landed, and ran off the end, catching fire. The 737 diverted to IAH.

I'm taking this with a grain of salt, since it's common for the initial "facts" to end up being quite different from what really happened..

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=local&id=3606961
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
D L X
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Aircraft Incident At HOU. Any Info? (Citation Crash)

Sun Nov 06, 2005 3:31 am

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 3):
"moved off" the runway by "taking off" and then came back around, landed, and ran off the end, catching fire.

That was my understanding too. I thought that was so bizarre that it couldn't have been what I had actually heard.
 
D L X
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Aircraft Incident At HOU. Any Info? (Citation Crash)

Sun Nov 06, 2005 3:36 am

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 3):
"moved off" the runway by "taking off" and then came back around, landed, and ran off the end, catching fire.

That was my understanding too. I thought that was so bizarre that it couldn't have been what I had actually heard.
 
Lt-AWACS
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Aircraft Incident At HOU. Any Info? (Citation Crash)

Sun Nov 06, 2005 7:00 am

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/front/3441002

With photos, coutesy of the HOUSTON CHRONICLE.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
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OPNLguy
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Aircraft Incident At HOU. Any Info? (Citation Crash)

Sun Nov 06, 2005 7:18 am

That makes a little more sense... They gave the Citation an immediate takeoff and he -also- had aircraft problems, and they necessitated a return.

Man, what are the odds of concurrent emergencies...?
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
D L X
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Aircraft Incident At HOU. Any Info? (Citation Crash)

Sun Nov 06, 2005 8:31 am

That doesn't seem right. If the Southwest jet had an emergency, why divert it instead of landing at the airport it's already lined up at?
 
OPNLguy
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Aircraft Incident At HOU. Any Info? (Citation Crash)

Sun Nov 06, 2005 8:44 am

Quoting D L X (Reply 8):
That doesn't seem right. If the Southwest jet had an emergency, why divert it instead of landing at the airport it's already lined up at?

Because the 737 hadn't landed yet and there was now a Citation burning at the end of the runway they were going to use. They couldn't use 12R/30L as it was closed. If they had an engine shut down, they'd have been using flaps-15, and 17/35 (assuming it wasn't also closed) was shorter, and at flaps-15 you want -longer-, so it was off to IAH...
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
FlyHoss
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Aircraft Incident At HOU. Any Info? (Citation Crash)

Sun Nov 06, 2005 12:34 pm

I overheard a discussion between the WN crew that had the emergency inbound to HOU and Houston Center after the WN flight had resumed.
The WN 737-300 was inbound into HOU on an engine-out visual approach. When they turned final, they noted the smoke and fire on or near the runway. The HOU Tower closed the airport and the WN 737 diverted to IAH.
At 1:45 pm CST, I saw the blue WN towed off a gate at IAH (D8 or D9) to the ramp in front of CO's hangar. Shortly thereafter, a WN 737-700 arrived; I believe this aircraft was used to resume the WN flight.
Sorry, but I missed the WN flight number.
A little bit louder now, a lil bit louder now...
 
TACAA320
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Aircraft Incident At HOU. Any Info? (Citation Crash)

Sun Nov 06, 2005 12:56 pm

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CMK10
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Aircraft Incident At HOU. Any Info? (Citation Crash)

Sun Nov 06, 2005 3:18 pm

The aircraft was owned by Citation Shares, a company who does a lot of business with the FBO I work for at PHX. We were given a bulletin about it at the front desk of the FBO.
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smcmac32msn
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Aircraft Incident At HOU. Any Info? (Citation Crash)

Sun Nov 06, 2005 3:36 pm

Quoting Cmk10 (Reply 12):
The aircraft was owned by Citation Shares

According to EVERY source I've seen the aircraft was NOT owned by Citation Shares... but Houston Arrithmea (sp?) Institute. I don't even think that Citation Shares flys Citation 501's.

EDIT: From Citation Shares website, they show CJ1's (Citation 525), Bravo (Citation 550), CJ3 (Citation 525), Tens (Citation 750), Soverigns (unkown registration type), and finally XLS (Citation 560XL). This is also cross referenced with Cessnas own website.

[Edited 2005-11-06 07:52:47]
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coa764
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Aircraft Incident At HOU. Any Info? (Citation Crash)

Sun Nov 06, 2005 3:43 pm

Quoting FlyHoss (Reply 10):
I overheard a discussion between the WN crew that had the emergency inbound to HOU and Houston Center after the WN flight had resumed.

Unless you work the ZHU watch desk how??? This not something a controller is going to talk about on frequency so you would have had to be standing next to the captain while on the phone with the facility manager.. It might have gone down like that, just curious (As such conversations usually take place in private setting)
Please oh please Mr Moderator Nazi, dont delete my thread.
 
citationjet
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Aircraft Incident At HOU. Any Info? (Citation Cras

Mon Nov 07, 2005 12:04 am

Quoting Smcmac32msn (Reply 13):
Soverigns (unkown registration type),

Citation Shares does not own any Model 500s.
The Sovereign model number is the 680.

Also, speaking of Citation model numbers, the new Citation Mustang is the Model 510.

[Edited 2005-11-06 16:16:08]
Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
 
smcmac32msn
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RE: Aircraft Incident At HOU. Any Info? (Citation Crash)

Mon Nov 07, 2005 12:40 am

Quoting CitationJet (Reply 15):
Also, speaking of Citation model numbers, the new Citation Mustang is the Model 510.

THANK YOU. I've been wondering what they'd use for that Model #. I knew it would probably fit in with the scheme that they use somewhere.
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COFreqFlyer
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RE: Aircraft Incident At HOU. Any Info? (Citation Crash)

Mon Nov 07, 2005 12:49 am

Quoting FlyHoss (Reply 10):
At 1:45 pm CST, I saw the blue WN towed off a gate at IAH (D8 or D9) to the ramp in front of CO's hangar. Shortly thereafter, a WN 737-700 arrived; I believe this aircraft was used to resume the WN flight.
Sorry, but I missed the WN flight number.

This explains why I saw a WN 73G landing on 26L and taxiing over to the D terminal while I was on a COEX flight departing IAH at 1430CST for MAF. Was wondering.
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FlyHoss
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RE: Aircraft Incident At HOU. Any Info? (Citation Crash)

Mon Nov 07, 2005 1:14 am

Quoting Coa764 (Reply 14):
Unless you work the ZHU watch desk how??? This not something a controller is going to talk about on frequency so you would have had to be standing next to the captain while on the phone with the facility manager..

I was in the cockpit of a flight departing Houston and overhead the discussion on the radio. IIRC, the Houston Center frequency was 132.15. The discussion occurred around 3:25-3:30 local time and was started by the Center controller. After the WN crew gave their answer, someone (else) on the frequency asked what the accident aircraft type was; the Center controller replied that he had just been instructed not to (further) discuss the accident.
A little bit louder now, a lil bit louder now...
 
citationjet
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RE: Aircraft Incident At HOU. Any Info? (Citation

Mon Nov 07, 2005 2:04 am

Quoting Smcmac32msn (Reply 16):
THANK YOU. I've been wondering what they'd use for that Model #. I knew it would probably fit in with the scheme that they use somewhere

On the Citation Mustang Model 510, the prototype and Production 1 are both flying. Production 1 has been painted, and has an interior in it. It will be shown at NBAA in Orlando this week. I have been inside the prototype aircraft. Mustang certificatoin is 3rd Q 2006 with first delivery 4Q 2006. All of the Mustangs will be built in the Single Engine Restart facility in Independence, KS. This is the first time that Cessna has not built a jet in Wichita, KS.

Here is the Citation model list from memory:
Model 500, 501 - Citation I
510 - Mustang
525 - CJ, CJ1, CJ1+
525A - CJ2, CJ2+
525B - CJ3
550 - Citation II, Bravo
552 - ?
560 - Citation V, Ultra, Encore
560XL - Citation XL, XLS
650 - Citation 3, 6, 7
680 - Citation Sovereign
750 - Citation X (ten)

500, 501, 552, 650 are out of production.

[Edited 2005-11-06 18:21:48]
Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
 
legacy135
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RE: Aircraft Incident At HOU. Any Info? (Citation Crash)

Mon Nov 07, 2005 9:31 am

Quoting CitationJet (Reply 19):
550 - Citation II, Bravo
552 - ?

Let me give you a small addition:

As operators wished to cruise faster with the C550 and were looking for somewhat more in range, Cessna developed a new wing. This aircraft was then named the C550 S/II. It took 800 lbs more of fuel which gave a max range of 2170 NM at LRC. The plane could also take off considerably heavier and was the first with a wing, going M0.70. Goodrich was not able to provide a deice boot to go at this speed and the JT-15 engines still produced 2500 lbs of thrust, so they couldn't go for a hot wing either as there was simply not enough bleed air left. This lead to the "TKS" anti ice system, that pumps a kind of alcohol on the leading edge, the same the Hs125 uses. This TKS system was also the downside of the aircraft. We called it "the mother of icing..."
On the other hand, this plane really went fast for the class of aircraft and far. It did not have the payload restrictions the normal C550 had and with this new wing (actually the same they used then for the C560 and on) it also had real low approach speeds. I can remember Vref's of 87KIAS at low weights.

The S/II was something as 50% more expensive as the standard C550. As people went on wishing more power and more space, Cessna streched the plane by "one window" and gave it a more powerful JT-15. By this time Goodrich also had a "fast boot" so the C560 Citation V was born, which was actually a "Super SII".

The military US once looked at a concept of a light jet aircraft. Cessna took the Citation S/II as a base, added more power and gave them a kind of a detachable canopy and ejection seats. This was the C552. Only 16 C552 were built. All 16 aircraft were in a hangar at Topeka KS when the hangar burned down. One aircraft remained, 15 were lost. Where the one is now, sorry I don't know either.

Cheers
Legacy135 Wink
 
IAHFLYR
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RE: Aircraft Incident At HOU. Any Info? (Citation Crash)

Mon Nov 07, 2005 9:52 pm

Quoting FlyHoss (Reply 10):
The HOU Tower closed the airport

Towers don't close runways/airports, only the airport operator in this case the Houston Airport System which runs the airport can close it...and at an airport the size of Hobby it is common to close the airport immediately after an accident.
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RL757PVD
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RE: Aircraft Incident At HOU. Any Info? (Citation Crash)

Mon Nov 07, 2005 11:49 pm

Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 21):
Towers don't close runways/airports, only the airport operator in this case the Houston Airport System which runs the airport can close it

Especially when there is another emergency aircraft inbound. The likely reason for the closure was since the ARFF trucks were already dealing with one emergency, why have them fighting 2 emergencies, which is why IAH was in WN's best interest incase the emergency escalated.
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SATL382G
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RE: Aircraft Incident At HOU. Any Info? (Citation Crash)

Mon Nov 07, 2005 11:51 pm

Some more news on this incident:

2 people on board: Pilot & Cardiologist/Owner

MX on the aircraft apparently had been the subject of some litigation.

WN diverting for a fuel temp light.

All per:
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/topstory/3441710
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