redneckslim
Posts: 91
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2005 5:02 am

NWA... Serious Crackdown On Ebay Mileage Sales

Sun Nov 06, 2005 11:48 am

If you are thinking about buying miles on eBay for a NWA flight... Don't! I was already checked in on the 3rd for a trip to NRT when I was told NWA actively monitored the site and voided all transactions. The seller had got a ticket in my name, and all was normal, but as soon as the agent went into the system he handed me the phone, and returned my luggage! The guy who gave me the miles and sold me his white envelope had his account seized and lost 120.000 miles and I'm out two grand. I see several sites selling NWA tix, be real carefull, these worldperk people are all over this, and have even pulled pax off flights in transit overseas! Just not worth it folks!
 
USF100FAN
Posts: 41
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 5:29 am

RE: NWA... Serious Crackdown On Ebay Mileage Sales

Sun Nov 06, 2005 12:06 pm

PLEASE folks ban N.W......... They don't care about nobody but themselves.........That's why their FINISHED!!!!!
 
redneckslim
Posts: 91
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2005 5:02 am

RE: NWA... Serious Crackdown On Ebay Mileage Sales

Sun Nov 06, 2005 12:13 pm

The seller had paid real money to earn these miles, NWA is a real thief for pulling this petty B.S. I hope and truly pray the entire operation falls on thier sorry face..... To hell with these rotten people! Good Bye forever NWA!
 
Indy
Posts: 3942
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:37 pm

RE: NWA... Serious Crackdown On Ebay Mileage Sales

Sun Nov 06, 2005 12:46 pm

Instead of hiring people to make sure their customers get the least value for their money perhaps those people should be going out of thier way to make sure their customers are satisfied. Every try calling their 800#? Good luck reaching a person unless you want to buy a new ticket. Forget calling about anything else. You'll just get a message that their reps are busy and the call will be cut off. So if you absolutely want to talk to someone just press the options like you are wanting to buy a ticket. They care long enough to take your money.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
MidnightMike
Posts: 2810
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2003 10:07 am

RE: NWA... Serious Crackdown On Ebay Mileage Sales

Sun Nov 06, 2005 12:52 pm

Quoting Redneckslim (Reply 2):
The seller had paid real money to earn these miles, NWA is a real thief for pulling this petty B.S. I hope and truly pray the entire operation falls on thier sorry face..... To hell with these rotten people! Good Bye forever NWA!

Sorry, I would not say that Northwest is a thief, they did not steal anything, when it comes to mileage award points, the airlines have the final say.

I do not think that it is legal to sell your award miles?

The seller earned the points by purchasing legimated tickets on Northwest, the award is for him to use, or transfer the points to a friend or family member, not for re-sale to the highest bidder......
NO URLS in signature
 
UAalltheway
Posts: 1358
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 8:31 am

RE: NWA... Serious Crackdown On Ebay Mileage Sales

Sun Nov 06, 2005 12:56 pm

Does anyone know if there have been recent problems doing this with selling CO miles/award tix on ebay?
 
Indy
Posts: 3942
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:37 pm

RE: NWA... Serious Crackdown On Ebay Mileage Sales

Sun Nov 06, 2005 12:57 pm

You all remember the old days when you could find people selling their tickets in the newspapers?
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
OOer
Posts: 923
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 2:10 pm

RE: NWA... Serious Crackdown On Ebay Mileage Sales

Sun Nov 06, 2005 3:33 pm

Welcome to NWA!!!! Another way to screw you over. Technically the rules are there but shouldnt they worry more about surviving than paying people to monitor these websites? Someone paid for those plane tickets that earned those miles, and there is no way of really telling that those actual miles were used for that ticket...!!!! Could be miles for a trip in the future..and this individual decided to donate those miles this time around. Sounds like a lie...but they cant proove otherwise!!!

I have a solution to all the NWA complaints...everybody just quit flying them!!!

Then they can outsource their flight attendants, pilots, rampers, everything and nobody will give a damn!!!
 
DLPMMM
Posts: 2122
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 12:34 am

RE: NWA... Serious Crackdown On Ebay Mileage Sales

Sun Nov 06, 2005 3:34 pm

Furthermore, I would say that it is both legal and ethical.

The rules about no selling or bartering award tickets have been around since the inception of the frequent flier programs. When you joined the program, these rules were integral with your acceptance of membership.

Ignorance of the rules (especially since these rules are very well known) is no excuse. If you don't like the rules, you have the option to not join the program.
 
Indy
Posts: 3942
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:37 pm

RE: NWA... Serious Crackdown On Ebay Mileage Sales

Sun Nov 06, 2005 3:35 pm

My biggest objection is that they are trying to hack the pay of pilots, flight attendants and mechanics yet they have money to pay people to police ebay.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
MarshalN
Posts: 1474
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 9:39 am

RE: NWA... Serious Crackdown On Ebay Mileage Sales

Sun Nov 06, 2005 3:50 pm

It's funny to read how some people here think they're entitled to miles. Since when? Miles are gifts from the airlines that are completely voluntary. They give it to you however they want, and they let you use it however THEY want. If they say you can only use your miles for flights between YUL and SYD, that's their right and you have to just deal with it. It's free -- you didn't pay for it, you paid for the ticket and your trip, and they gave you the miles as a nice way of saying "thanks, please fly us again".

A good example is BA's program -- it sucks for the leisure traveler, but it's great for the business traveler. That's how they want it, because that's the segment they want to target. Don't like it? Join some other oneworld frequent flyer program that gives you better rewards. Does that make BA unethical because they don't give you the miles that you "bought"? No.
 
Indy
Posts: 3942
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:37 pm

RE: NWA... Serious Crackdown On Ebay Mileage Sales

Sun Nov 06, 2005 3:55 pm

Thats not completely accurate. It isn't a gift. Its not a gift any more than a rebate for purchasing something at Best Buy is a gift. It is a promotional tool used to get you to use their product frequently. FF miles are nothing more than a rebate towards a future ticket. And its not free. You do pay for it. Its part of the price of a ticket. There is no such thing as free in business. You pay for it one way or another. But like a rebate there are terms and conditions in the program. Its like life insurance. The idea is for you to pay into the program and end up losing your coverage for one reason for another before you need the benefit. There are plenty of people that do use the miles. There are plenty others that never get enough for a free ticket.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
Indy
Posts: 3942
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:37 pm

RE: NWA... Serious Crackdown On Ebay Mileage Sales

Sun Nov 06, 2005 4:14 pm

I wouldn't spend that much money on ebay personally. Plus you never know. It could have been a NW agent selling you those miles. That way the airlines gets your money and you get nothing. But it would like bitching because you got shorted in a drug deal.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
MarshalN
Posts: 1474
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 9:39 am

RE: NWA... Serious Crackdown On Ebay Mileage Sales

Sun Nov 06, 2005 4:20 pm

Quoting Indy (Reply 19):
Thats not completely accurate. It isn't a gift. Its not a gift any more than a rebate for purchasing something at Best Buy is a gift. It is a promotional tool used to get you to use their product frequently. FF miles are nothing more than a rebate towards a future ticket. And its not free. You do pay for it. Its part of the price of a ticket. There is no such thing as free in business. You pay for it one way or another. But like a rebate there are terms and conditions in the program. Its like life insurance. The idea is for you to pay into the program and end up losing your coverage for one reason for another before you need the benefit. There are plenty of people that do use the miles. There are plenty others that never get enough for a free ticket.

Yes and no -- when you get the miles you also agree to the terms and conditions, stipulating how these miles can be used. It's not a "trap" for NW to say you can't sell your miles -- that's the terms and conditions you agreed upon when joining the FF program and that's how it shall be done. People who break those rules automatically forefeit their right to the miles, as redneck did here.

There is no monetary value attached to the miles, so in that sense, it's free. They don't owe you anything really -- if they go bankrupt, FF miles aren't worth a dime.
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: NWA... Serious Crackdown On Ebay Mileage Sales

Sun Nov 06, 2005 4:23 pm

Quoting OOer (Reply 15):
and there is no way of really telling that those actual miles were used for that ticket...!!!! Could be miles for a trip in the future..and this individual decided to donate those miles this time around. Sounds like a lie...but they cant proove otherwise!!!

Ha Ha Ha . . . .   

Ok, let me take you through this real slow; in plain, non-Vulcan english.

a. Numbnut redeems XXX NW WorldPerks miles for a ticket to NRT in RedNecks name.

b. NW issues ticket.

c. NW sees a transaction on EBay between Numbnut and RedNeck for an envelope, that cost $2000 . . . oh, and the bonus is Numbnut is throwing in a ticket to NRT.

d. RedNeck shows up at the airport.

e. NW has his name in the database - illegal transaction of NW WorldPerks miles.

f. NW cancels said ticket, cancels said WorldPerks account, etc, yadda, yadda, blah, blah.

They key here OOer is paras a and c. Read them to yourself, a couple times perhaps . . . 2 + 2 = 4, even today . . .

Quoting Coa764 (Reply 20):

   Excellent use of one of my favorite emoticons    . . . although I usually reserve that one for the Mayor of New Orleans these days.

[Edited 2005-11-06 08:23:47]
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
filejw
Posts: 312
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2000 2:58 am

RE: NWA... Serious Crackdown On Ebay Mileage Sales

Sun Nov 06, 2005 4:44 pm

All you have to do is read the rules boys,I'm a NAW employee but its the same as if you brought a coupon to my pizza shop.No resale is no resale.
 
planespotting
Posts: 3026
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 4:54 am

RE: NWA... Serious Crackdown On Ebay Mileage Sales

Sun Nov 06, 2005 4:58 pm

I think the legal precedent would indicate that these frequent flier miles fall under the same category as coupons (as Filejw pointed out). The cash value of most coupons is 1/20th of a cent or less. Technically, a free round trip could also be worth that amount of money as "resale", since that would be one "coupon" in an entire transaction.

it's not the sweetest rule in NWA's book, but it is legal.
Do you like movies about gladiators?
 
aaflt1871
Posts: 2166
Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2004 7:29 pm

RE: NWA... Serious Crackdown On Ebay Mileage Sales

Sun Nov 06, 2005 5:03 pm

Quoting Filejw (Reply 24):
,I'm a NAW employee

Really? Are you sure?


My question is how did NW get the names of the people involved off of eBay? I mean did the guy post his FF # on there or?
Where did everybody go?
 
su
Posts: 286
Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2004 1:13 am

RE: NWA... Serious Crackdown On Ebay Mileage Sales

Sun Nov 06, 2005 5:13 pm

I can't believe people actually justifying this post. When you sign up for a mileage program with any airlines you agree to abide with that program's rules. And in every program it says that selling, bargaining of miles and certificates are forbidden. I am not sure why is the author not happy for loosing money? As it was said in previous posts read the rules.
"Life is too short to take it serious..."
 
apodino
Posts: 3027
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:11 am

RE: NWA... Serious Crackdown On Ebay Mileage Sales

Sun Nov 06, 2005 7:03 pm

Ok we all know that Northwest Airlines is not the best airline in the world for a number of reasons. That being said, Every airline has the same rule about sale of miles. If you did this as an AAdvantage member, or a SkyMiles member, or a Mileage Plus member, for example, you could be caught and suffer the same fate. Also remember that management reserves the right in most cases to suspend any account for any reason. That is normally listed in the terms of membership. Northwest in my opinion in this situation did nothing unethical or illegal, they are simply using their right to enforce their rules of membership, as any airline has.

It seems to me that because of the hate for northwest on this forum, somebody posted this because it was Northwest and is trying to make them look even worse. If this happened on American, United or Continental, I guarantee you wouldn't have all the negativity toward those carriers as you do toward Northwest simply because of company image on this forum. Its sad really.
 
HS748
Posts: 621
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2005 3:01 am

RE: NWA... Serious Crackdown On Ebay Mileage Sales

Sun Nov 06, 2005 7:09 pm

The ticket was fraudulently obtained. Why do so many people here defend such criminal activity?
 
zvezda
Posts: 8891
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: NWA... Serious Crackdown On Ebay Mileage Sales

Sun Nov 06, 2005 10:37 pm

Quoting Indy (Reply 21):
It could have been a NW agent selling you those miles. That way the airlines gets your money and you get nothing.

That would be criminal fraud.
 
hugo
Posts: 361
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2000 11:28 am

RE: NWA... Serious Crackdown On Ebay Mileage Sales

Sun Nov 06, 2005 11:50 pm

While I can understand the argument that rules are rules and that the ticket in question was obtained "wrongfully", I feel that NW is not being pragmatic about this incident and their current situation. By their punitive actions on the seller, they just lost an important frequent flying customer.

The reality is that many frequent flyers cannot use their miles and turn their road-warrior lifestyles to their advantage by selling reward travel. I believe airlines put in the non-sale clause to increase revenues by making it more likely for people to have to purchase a ticket. I wonder, however, if this rule really grounded and practical...the frequent flyer who sells surplus miles is probably far more important as a revenue source than the guy who buys travel on ebay.

Given these desperate times for NW, it seems really crazy that they will go to great efforts to kill the goose that laid the golden egg.
 
andrewuber
Posts: 2142
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 10:45 am

RE: NWA... Serious Crackdown On Ebay Mileage Sales

Mon Nov 07, 2005 1:12 am

Quoting USF100FAN (Reply 1):
PLEASE folks ban N.W......... They don't care about nobody but themselves.........That's why their FINISHED!!!!!

Sounds like the words of a die-hard (and unemployed) AMFA member to me.... sarcastic 
I'd rather shoot BAD_MOTIVE
 
HS748
Posts: 621
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2005 3:01 am

RE: NWA... Serious Crackdown On Ebay Mileage Sales

Mon Nov 07, 2005 1:34 am

Quoting AndrewUber (Reply 23):
Sounds like the words of a die-hard (and unemployed) AMFA member to me....

And for those of us not from the US, AMFA stands for......?
 
BR715-A1-30
Posts: 6525
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 9:30 am

RE: NWA... Serious Crackdown On Ebay Mileage Sales

Mon Nov 07, 2005 1:40 am

Good Guy

Bad Guy

One can turn a bankrupt airline into a great airline
The other can turn a great airline into a bankrupt airline.
Puhdiddle
 
727EMflyer
Posts: 538
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:22 am

RE: NWA... Serious Crackdown On Ebay Mileage Sales

Mon Nov 07, 2005 1:46 am

Quoting AAFLT1871 (Reply 17):
My question is how did NW get the names of the people involved off of eBay?

Well Ebay is more sophisticated than your local flea market. They actually cooperate with industry to safeguard against fraud, like this, forgeries, and various other troubles all the way down to petty copyright infringement. I learned all this when my wife repeatedly had an ad rejected. Turns out she had used a term to describe an item that was the copyrighted name of a competitors item. All it takes is a complaint from the OEM and Ebay will work to protect their rights.

It is the same situation here. I don't think it costs NW very much to patrol Ebay. Any major corporation will have an anti fraud department, and any nitwit in that department can take a look at ebay a couple times a day: searching for likely key words. Heck a (DC-) 9th rate computer programmer could write a simple code to do the searching for them!
 
Dougloid
Posts: 7248
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:44 am

RE: NWA... Serious Crackdown On Ebay Mileage Sales

Mon Nov 07, 2005 1:48 am

Quoting HS748 (Reply 24):
Quoting AndrewUber (Reply 23):
Sounds like the words of a die-hard (and unemployed) AMFA member to me....

And for those of us not from the US, AMFA stands for......?

Comin' right up.

http://www.amfanatl.org/
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
aa757first
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 11:40 am

RE: NWA... Serious Crackdown On Ebay Mileage Sales

Mon Nov 07, 2005 1:52 am

Quoting HS748 (Reply 24):

And for those of us not from the US, AMFA stands for......?

AMFA is the mechanic's union at Northwest. They are famous for getting 88% of their workforce laid off instead of the 51% the company offered.

Quoting BR715-A1-30 (Reply 25):
One can turn a bankrupt airline into a great airline
The other can turn a great airline into a bankrupt airline.

When was Northwest a great airline? The 1980s? Steenland was made CEO in 2001 and was caught in the midst of 9/11 with an ancient fleet and high labor costs. I don't agree with all of his tactics, but it's certaintly not all of his fault.

AAndrew
 
abrelosojos
Posts: 4050
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 6:48 am

RE: NWA... Serious Crackdown On Ebay Mileage Sales

Mon Nov 07, 2005 2:04 am

Quoting Hugo (Reply 22):
While I can understand the argument that rules are rules and that the ticket in question was obtained "wrongfully", I feel that NW is not being pragmatic about this incident and their current situation. By their punitive actions on the seller, they just lost an important frequent flying customer.

The reality is that many frequent flyers cannot use their miles and turn their road-warrior lifestyles to their advantage by selling reward travel. I believe airlines put in the non-sale clause to increase revenues by making it more likely for people to have to purchase a ticket. I wonder, however, if this rule really grounded and practical...the frequent flyer who sells surplus miles is probably far more important as a revenue source than the guy who buys travel on ebay.

Given these desperate times for NW, it seems really crazy that they will go to great efforts to kill the goose that laid the golden egg.

=  checkmark 
Live, and let live.
 
toering
Posts: 147
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2005 11:42 am

RE: NWA... Serious Crackdown On Ebay Mileage Sales

Mon Nov 07, 2005 2:19 am

My whole take on the deal is that NWA does not want you to use someone else's miles only because they have a big push going right now, charging you to give miles to friends and family.
www.nwa.com Then, under worldperks, find transfer miles. ( Sorry I suck at this internet thingie)
 
Boeing727flyer
Posts: 129
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2005 3:36 am

RE: NWA... Serious Crackdown On Ebay Mileage Sales

Mon Nov 07, 2005 2:24 am

This guy obtained his miles by flying and paying to fly. I just feel NW are being way over the top on this. I will never fly on that airline again. Just another way to turn the customers over. What next AA stopping the cerial box vouchers and you cannot prove you bought the box.
Hail the mighty Boeing 727
 
supa7E7
Posts: 1360
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:05 am

RE: NWA... Serious Crackdown On Ebay Mileage Sales

Mon Nov 07, 2005 2:39 am

Quoting MarshalN (Reply 13):
There is no monetary value attached to the miles, so in that sense, it's free. They don't owe you anything really -- if they go bankrupt, FF miles aren't worth a dime.

Huh? NW did go bankrupt. FF miles are just as good at before. Same goes for UA, US, TZ.
"Who's to say spaceships aren't fine art?" - Phil Lesh
 
ikramerica
Posts: 13763
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: NWA... Serious Crackdown On Ebay Mileage Sales

Mon Nov 07, 2005 2:45 am

Quoting HS748 (Reply 20):
The ticket was fraudulently obtained. Why do so many people here defend such criminal activity?

The same could be asked concerning internet downloading of music and movies...

Quoting Boeing727flyer (Reply 31):
I will never fly on that airline again.

Then never FLY again, because it isn't exclusive to NW. They all have the same rules and would all do this if they had proof.

Can't single out NW just because someone tells you a story about them...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
Ned Kelly
Posts: 397
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2001 8:14 am

RE: NWA... Serious Crackdown On Ebay Mileage Sales

Mon Nov 07, 2005 3:29 am

Quoting Indy (Reply 9):
My biggest objection is that they are trying to hack the pay of pilots, flight attendants and mechanics yet they have money to pay people to police ebay.

NW Employees pay for 1 days work to police e-bay = $100 (approx)
NW Potential lost revenue saved = $2000 (approx)

NW Potential profit = $1900 (approx).

Sounds like good management to me.
 
jyatlantic
Posts: 152
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 3:14 am

RE: NWA... Serious Crackdown On Ebay Mileage Sales

Mon Nov 07, 2005 3:46 am

Quoting Ned Kelly (Reply 34):
NW Employees pay for 1 days work to police e-bay = $100 (approx)
NW Potential lost revenue saved = $2000 (approx)

NW Potential profit = $1900 (approx).

Not really. NW wouldn't have gained the $2000 b/c the member would have redeemed his ticket for free anyhow.
 
Ned Kelly
Posts: 397
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2001 8:14 am

RE: NWA... Serious Crackdown On Ebay Mileage Sales

Mon Nov 07, 2005 4:00 am

Quoting Jyatlantic (Reply 35):
Not really. NW wouldn't have gained the $2000 b/c the member would have redeemed his ticket for free anyhow.

Yes I am aware that the tickets are normally free & they don't generate revenue in their own right. However if the flight was full and they pax was taken off the flight for the reason above, the now spare seat could be sold to another pax purchasing a ticket. Hence why I used the word "potential profit".

Ned.
 
HPRamper
Posts: 4595
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 4:22 am

RE: NWA... Serious Crackdown On Ebay Mileage Sales

Mon Nov 07, 2005 4:15 am

I thought there was some way you could transfer worldperks miles to another account, and that it was a one-time only thing, you couldn't do it multiple times. Sort of like a gift of mileage.
 
jyatlantic
Posts: 152
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 3:14 am

RE: NWA... Serious Crackdown On Ebay Mileage Sales

Mon Nov 07, 2005 4:15 am

Wow, the starter of this thread was banned the day of this posting. Does this thread violate forum rules?
 
MEA-707
Posts: 3666
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 1999 4:51 am

RE: NWA... Serious Crackdown On Ebay Mileage Sales

Mon Nov 07, 2005 4:15 am

Quoting Jyatlantic (Reply 35):
Not really. NW wouldn't have gained the $2000 b/c the member would have redeemed his ticket for free anyhow.

not really. FF systems count on a substantial part of the mileage not being used, as the original collector is too busy or forgets about it. So the $2000 worth of miles might not have been used anyway, or used by the owner for an 'extra' flight he wouldn't have flown if he had to pay for it, and filling or upgrading on an empty flight.
The fraudulent buyer of miles would have otherwise paid the airline for his tickets. So in the end airlines gain a lot by blocking ebay sales and so. Probably they are happy with threads like this so the original poster got to "set an example" and scare others off from cheating like this.
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
 
bobnwa
Posts: 4464
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:10 am

RE: NWA... Serious Crackdown On Ebay Mileage Sales

Mon Nov 07, 2005 4:19 am

Quoting Boeing727flyer (Reply 31):
This guy obtained his miles by flying and paying to fly. I just feel NW are being way over the top on this. I will never fly on that airline again. Just another way to turn the customers over. What next AA stopping the cerial box vouchers and you cannot prove you bought the box.

What airlines that allow FF tickets to be sold will you be flying on?
 
jyatlantic
Posts: 152
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 3:14 am

RE: NWA... Serious Crackdown On Ebay Mileage Sales

Mon Nov 07, 2005 4:21 am

Quoting Redneckslim (Thread starter):
The guy who gave me the miles and sold me his white envelope had his account seized and lost 120.000 miles and I'm out two grand.

Personally I think NW had no right to seize the miles. In legal terms, the white envelope was sold, and the miles were included as a free gift or service. You could form an argument with the airline on this one.
 
jyatlantic
Posts: 152
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 3:14 am

RE: NWA... Serious Crackdown On Ebay Mileage Sales

Mon Nov 07, 2005 5:10 am

Quoting 727EMflyer (Reply 26):
Quoting AAFLT1871 (Reply 17):
My question is how did NW get the names of the people involved off of eBay?

Well Ebay is more sophisticated than your local flea market. They actually cooperate with industry to safeguard against fraud, like this, forgeries, and various other troubles all the way down to petty copyright infringement. I learned all this when my wife repeatedly had an ad rejected. Turns out she had used a term to describe an item that was the copyrighted name of a competitors item. All it takes is a complaint from the OEM and Ebay will work to protect their rights.

I know eBay will reveal addresses and phone numbers, but will Paypal do so?
 
HPRamper
Posts: 4595
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 4:22 am

RE: NWA... Serious Crackdown On Ebay Mileage Sales

Mon Nov 07, 2005 5:21 am

Isn't Paypal owned by Ebay?
 
777STL
Posts: 2770
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 8:22 am

RE: NWA... Serious Crackdown On Ebay Mileage Sales

Mon Nov 07, 2005 5:30 am

Moral to the story:

If you're going to sell miles, do it in a more discrete manner.
PHX based
 
jyatlantic
Posts: 152
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 3:14 am

RE: NWA... Serious Crackdown On Ebay Mileage Sales

Mon Nov 07, 2005 5:42 am

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 43):
Isn't Paypal owned by Ebay?

Yes, but there may be some from of "privay agreement" that Paypal exercises but eBay doesn't.
 
MarshalN
Posts: 1474
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 9:39 am

RE: NWA... Serious Crackdown On Ebay Mileage Sales

Mon Nov 07, 2005 6:02 am

Quoting Supa7E7 (Reply 32):
Huh? NW did go bankrupt. FF miles are just as good at before. Same goes for UA, US, TZ.

Sorry, I meant if an airline goes into liqiudation. I forgot bankruptcy rules in the US are pretty messed up  Smile

Quoting Jyatlantic (Reply 38):
Wow, the starter of this thread was banned the day of this posting. Does this thread violate forum rules?

I think his language probably did it, not so much the content.
 
Simpilicity
Posts: 881
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 4:21 pm

RE: NWA... Serious Crackdown On Ebay Mileage Sales

Mon Nov 07, 2005 7:12 am

Quoting MidnightMike (Reply 4):
I do not think that it is legal to sell your award miles?

The seller earned the points by purchasing legimated tickets on Northwest, the award is for him to use, or transfer the points to a friend or family member, not for re-sale to the highest bidder......

It is not illegal to to sell award miles/points, it's only against the airlines rules. THEIR RULES AREN'T LAW, THEY ARE JUST AN AIRLINE, THEY CAN'T MAKE LAWS !!!

It's all about how it's handled. A person can give miles/points to whoever they want with most airlines that have frequent flyers programmes. (With QF you have to be related - so could be a cousin. I have over 60 cousins & I don't even know all their names, so in reality I could put any name down on the form)

Another person can give money/gifts whatever to any other person.

Anyway, frequent flyers programmes are going to have major overhaul very soon. It was AA & other US carriers that started them anyway.

The admin costs on these programmes has got out of control. Non business types, think when they get these miles/points they can use them whenever they want to go wherever they want & get they really annoyed when they can't use them when they want.

I think the airlines will get rid of or degrade miles/points "earned" through credit cards & concentrate on only people who fly a lot &/or pay higher fares.( the real frequent flyers/business types )

Both Air NZ & Jetstar(QF) don't give points for their cheaper fares. Jetstar only give points on fully flexible fares (their most expensive).

"Selling" miles/points has been going on since f.f. programmes started. It's just got easier for the "seller" with the internet.

There is no way that the airlines can trac


Think about it. If you have to fly for business, a dozen times a month, who wants to get on another bloody plane, especially in the US with all the ridiculous NON-SECURITY.

Quoting Redneckslim (Thread starter):
If you are thinking about buying miles on eBay for a NWA flight... Don't! I was already checked in on the 3rd for a trip to NRT when I was told NWA actively monitored the site and voided all transactions.

There is no way you can track who's buying or selling miles/points, unless the seller, puts his/her name/f.f. a/c number in Ebay ad, or someone fraudulently pretends to be a possible purchaser to extract this info.

In the end, it's ludicrous to pay someone to chase this. People will always bend the rules. Rules are made to be broken. Someone who always sticks to the rules, is going to have a very boring life !!!
 
BoomBoom
Posts: 2459
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 2:26 am

RE: NWA... Serious Crackdown On Ebay Mileage Sales

Mon Nov 07, 2005 7:29 am

Quoting 727EMflyer (Reply 26):
Well Ebay is more sophisticated than your local flea market. They actually cooperate with industry to safeguard against fraud, like this, forgeries, and various other troubles all the way down to petty copyright infringement.

If eBay feels such transactions are fraud, they they shouldn't allow them to proceed in the first place. I have seen many examples where eBay has pulled auctions because the seller was offering something fraudulent.

The admin costs on these programmes has got out of control. Non business types, think when they get these miles/points they can use them whenever they want to go wherever they want & get they really annoyed when they can't use them when they want.

When FF programs began, the idea was for the airline to give away a seat that would have flown empty anyway. Thus they could offer a ticket to a loyal customer for very little real expense.

Now with sophisticated yield management software they are able to fill almost every seat on a flight, so it's become harder and harder to redeem miles.

[Edited 2005-11-06 23:38:21]
Our eyes are open, our eyes are open--wide, wide, wide...
 
Devil505x
Posts: 220
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2003 3:55 am

RE: NWA... Serious Crackdown On Ebay Mileage Sales

Mon Nov 07, 2005 7:53 am

Quoting USF100FAN (Reply 1):
PLEASE folks ban N.W......... They don't care about nobody but themselves.........That's why their FINISHED!!!!!


Yeah and remember the USairways luggage fiasco 2 years ago. They don't care about anyone either.