767-332ER
Topic Author
Posts: 1974
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A380 Problems, What Are They?

Sun Nov 06, 2005 9:33 pm

A number of people have kept mentioning about the plaguing A380 problems, and I am curious as to what they are and if someone could list those for me? I know some of the problems have been engine problems, but those have not been related directly to the A380 design. Also, what are your sources or how did you find out about these problems?

Regards
Twinjets...if one fails, work the other one twice as hard!!!
 
A319XFW
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RE: A380 Problems, What Are They?

Sun Nov 06, 2005 9:43 pm

Flug Revue (http://www.flug-revue.rotor.com/) had an article about the A380.
I think this is the one that was in the magazine. It's in English, so everyone here should be able to understand Big grin
http://www.flug-revue.rotor.com/FRheft/FRHeft05/FRH0511/FR0511g.htm
 
ZRH
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RE: A380 Problems, What Are They?

Sun Nov 06, 2005 9:47 pm

Actually there are no serious problems. The flight tests are even going better than expected. At MSN1 they had to change an engine which had some problems.
 
Scorpio
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RE: A380 Problems, What Are They?

Sun Nov 06, 2005 10:24 pm

As far as flight testing is concerned, so far no serious problems seem to have surfaced that we know of. Recently, there seems to have been some engine problem with msn001, but there are no indications that this problem is erious enough to jeopardise the schedule. It just happened at a rather inconvenient time, i.e. just before the visit to the far east. If this had happened a few weeks earlier, it most likely would have received little attention on here, if any.

The main reason for the delays in delivery is that Airbus seems to have underestimated the level of customisation of the interiors, which requires far more workk than they had thought. The test flight program has been re-aligned with the new schedule.

The problem is that the 'number of people' you are referring to have been painting a doom and gloom picture of the A380 for a while now, jumping on every piece of news or lack thereof to attack Airbus and the A380. It's a sad state of affairs that such a hate campaign exists on what is supposed to be an enthusiast board, but I guess that's just the way these things go.

Some advice: If these people barge in here (and I'm afraid the question is rather 'when' iso 'if') remember one thing: They don't know the facts, they're just guessing.
 
FlySSC
Posts: 5192
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RE: A380 Problems, What Are They?

Sun Nov 06, 2005 10:40 pm

Quoting 767-332ER (Thread starter):
Also, what are your sources or how did you find out about these problems?

Airbus had overheat problems on 2 of the RR engines.
They decided to change one, then a second, and finally the 4 engines as a precaution, on msn 001 (F-WWOW) before starting the tour in South East Asia.

The plane should leave TLS to SIN next Thursday ...

sources :
http://www.lefigaro.fr/eco-entreprises/20051105.FIG0141.html?132407

Sorry, in French only ....
 
leelaw
Posts: 4520
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 4:13 pm

RE: A380 Problems, What Are They?

Sun Nov 06, 2005 10:43 pm

What about the "tail buffeting" problem? Didn't addressing this issue require modifications to strengthen airframes which had already been assembled and significantly contribute to the six month program delay?
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
PhilSquares
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RE: A380 Problems, What Are They?

Sun Nov 06, 2005 11:03 pm

One major issue with the 380 is the BITE software is not completed and it won't be completed before the first delivery. This will mean the first 5 or 6 aircraft will not have the onboard diagnostic software package when the aircraft is delivered. However, it will be available to be installed after the introduction of service.

In addition, VNAV will most likely not be certified prior to the first aircraft being turned over to SQ. The delay is the result of software and flight dynamic issues.

Both of these issues have been contained in Flight International and AWST.

Are they showstoppers? No, however the biggest one is the diagnostic issue. Airbus has assured SQ and QF there will be a support team from Airbus at each airline's location to assist with any issues that arise from the lack of the diagnostic capability.
Fly fast, live slow
 
dynkrisolo
Posts: 1825
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2001 12:12 am

RE: A380 Problems, What Are They?

Mon Nov 07, 2005 1:04 am

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 3):
Some advice: If these people barge in here (and I'm afraid the question is rather 'when' iso 'if') remember one thing: They don't know the facts, they're just guessing.

Fair statement. Too many people here just rely hearsay. OTOH, when you said:

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 3):
As far as flight testing is concerned, so far no serious problems seem to have surfaced that we know of.

I'm afraid you were guessing, too. I don't believe you have access to daily Airbus operations and issues that they might have.
 
greasespot
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RE: A380 Problems, What Are They?

Mon Nov 07, 2005 1:14 am

And the people who have daily access, well if they want to be stay employed, will not post them in here.

Unless you have purchased an airplane Airbus owes us no explanation.......Same for Boeing.

If you want to know go buy an airplane or get a job at Airbus.

GS

P.S i would not even hold up Industry mags. as rock solid sources...
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
Dougloid
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RE: A380 Problems, What Are They?

Mon Nov 07, 2005 1:16 am

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 3):
The problem is that the 'number of people' you are referring to have been painting a doom and gloom picture of the A380 for a while now, jumping on every piece of news or lack thereof to attack Airbus and the A380. It's a sad state of affairs that such a hate campaign exists on what is supposed to be an enthusiast board, but I guess that's just the way these things go.

Some advice: If these people barge in here (and I'm afraid the question is rather 'when' iso 'if') remember one thing: They don't know the facts, they're just guessing.

Tell me Mr. high school teacher....what do you call what you just said?
Why, that's right, class! It's an ad hominem attack very cleverly disguised and as such it is in the skeptic's guide to the universe as one of the top twenty logical fallacies.

Do you know any more than anyone else?
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
SATL382G
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RE: A380 Problems, What Are They?

Mon Nov 07, 2005 1:32 am

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 3):
The main reason for the delays in delivery is that Airbus seems to have underestimated the level of customisation of the interiors, which requires far more workk than they had thought. The test flight program has been re-aligned with the new schedule.

IMHO, something doesn't quite ring true here. Airbus, the #1 builder of commercial jets, botched the estimates for interior completion work? It's only something they do everyday and is a major factor in keeping their customers happy. And if true it means they have also botched the cost estimates, at least on the initial production run. IMO, the interiors issue was exaggerated to provide additional time for resolving other issues that might prove more embarassing for Airbus or its customers.

They've got people believing they are putting in waterfalls and bowling alleys, might as well use it as a smoke screen....

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 6):
No, however the biggest one is the diagnostic issue. Airbus has assured SQ and QF there will be a support team from Airbus at each airline's location to assist with any issues that arise from the lack of the diagnostic capability.

Problems with BITE does not bode well for the initial inservice reliability figures.
"There’s nothing quite as exhilarating as being shot at and missed" --Winston Churchill
 
Scorpio
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RE: A380 Problems, What Are They?

Mon Nov 07, 2005 2:44 am

Quoting Dynkrisolo (Reply 7):
I'm afraid you were guessing, too. I don't believe you have access to daily Airbus operations and issues that they might have.

What part of 'that we know of' is it you didn't understand in the sentence of mine you quoted?

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 9):
Tell me Mr. high school teacher....what do you call what you just said?

Yes, the classical approach: no real arguments, so let's attack the profession of the poster, which has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion. Want an apple?

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 9):
Do you know any more than anyone else?

Did I claim I did? Did I suggest I did? Did I in any possible way allude to knowing more? Did my use of words like 'seem' (three times in first two paragraphs), 'that we know of' and 'most likely' STILL not make it clear to you that I do not claim to know more?

Anyway, your reacting to my post in that way indicates I've hit a nerve. Good. Means I'm doing something right.

Quoting SATL382G (Reply 10):
Airbus, the #1 builder of commercial jets, botched the estimates for interior completion work?

These are the reasons Airbus themselves give, something which several customer airlines have also alluded to. Remember that the level of customisation on A380 is unprecedented.

But you're free not to believe Airbus if that suits you better.
 
dynkrisolo
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Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2001 12:12 am

RE: A380 Problems, What Are They?

Mon Nov 07, 2005 3:34 am

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 11):
What part of 'that we know of' is it you didn't understand in the sentence of mine you quoted?

If you insist, let's analyze what you have said:

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 3):
As far as flight testing is concerned, so far no serious problems seem to have surfaced that we know of.

How do you know for a fact that no serious problems seem to have surfaced? You are speculating just like other who have speculated that serious problems have surfaced.

Quote:

Recently, there seems to have been some engine problem with msn001, but there are no indications that this problem is serious enough to jeopardise the schedule. It just happened at a rather inconvenient time, i.e. just before the visit to the far east.

You speculated again.

Quote:

The main reason for the delays in delivery is that Airbus seems to have underestimated the level of customisation of the interiors, which requires far more workk than they had thought. The test flight program has been re-aligned with the new schedule.

You chose to accept Airbus's excuse. Allow me to speculate with some reasoning. First, the fact QF, the second 380 operator, was originally scheduled to get their first aircraft six months after SQ got theirs. In the first 8 months, only 3 airlines were scheduled to receive 380s.

Second, early test airplanes are never tested in a customer's final interior configuration. To blame an early test delays on a problem that's related to refurbishing the aircraft after the test simply doesn't make sense. MSN001 took off in April. Airbus had a year to solve potential issues with SQ's interior requirements, and another six months to solve issues with QF's and EK's. I don't think that's very convincing. If 6 or 7 airlines were scheduled to receive 380s in 6 months, then the explanation would make more sense, but they only have one customer for the first 4-6 months.

I speculate, you speculate, others speculate, too. When you speculate everything is going fine with the 380, and you tell others who speculate that everything is not going well to shut up, you're not standing on very firm ground. The truth is likely somewhere in between. I certainly don't believe it's as rosy as you have portrayed, but I don't believe it's doomed and gloomed as some others have portrayed.
 
Scorpio
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RE: A380 Problems, What Are They?

Mon Nov 07, 2005 4:01 am

My God, that's the dumbest post I've seen on here for a while. But OK, I'll play the game.

Quoting Dynkrisolo (Reply 12):
How do you know for a fact that no serious problems seem to have surfaced?

Where did I say I did? Again, what part of 'that we know of' don't you understand??? This is a no-brainer, but I'll analyze 'that we know of' for you in this context. We (that's us, the public) have not been told by Airbus or any other official source that there are serious problems with the A380. Thus: there are no serious problems THAT WE KNOW OF. Seriously, I can't believe you make a fuss about that, it's perfectly clear.

Quoting Dynkrisolo (Reply 12):
You speculated again.

Huh? Where did I speculate? I just said what is known to us which isn't a lot. There ARE no indications to us, the public, of this problem jeopardising the program. Unless you know otherwise, which I doubt.

Quoting Dynkrisolo (Reply 12):
You chose to accept Airbus's excuse.

And you chose not to. It's a free world.

Quoting Dynkrisolo (Reply 12):
Allow me to speculate with some reasoning.

Go right ahead. While you do so, I'll try and stop laughing at the first part of your post.
 
ChiGB1973
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Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 6:39 am

RE: A380 Problems, What Are They?

Mon Nov 07, 2005 4:32 am

Quoting A319XFW (Reply 1):
Flug Revue (http://www.flug-revue.rotor.com/) had an article about the A380.
I think this is the one that was in the magazine. It's in English, so everyone here should be able to understand
http://www.flug-revue.rotor.com/FRhe...g.htm

Very interesting article, thanks!

M
 
RichardPrice
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RE: A380 Problems, What Are They?

Mon Nov 07, 2005 4:39 am

Quoting Dynkrisolo (Reply 12):
You chose to accept Airbus's excuse.

Lets hear your better, more informed reason for the delay. After all, you seem to be in the know, better than Airbus.

Airbus has no public shareholders, it is answerable to noone but EADS, BAE and its customers, what reason in HELL does it have to lie about delays to the public?

Give over with the conspiracy theories.

Quoting Dynkrisolo (Reply 12):
Second, early test airplanes are never tested in a customer's final interior configuration.

Both of the delayed aircraft are having interiors fitted as part of the test program, that is why this is not a problem to be addressed at a later date. Both aircraft are closer to the configuration that will be delivered to customers, and both will be used in proving.

Give over with the conspiracy theories.
 
leelaw
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Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 4:13 pm

RE: A380 Problems, What Are They?

Mon Nov 07, 2005 5:17 am

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 15):
Both of the delayed aircraft are having interiors fitted as part of the test program, that is why this is not a problem to be addressed at a later date. Both aircraft are closer to the configuration that will be delivered to customers, and both will be used in proving.

Isn't MSN004 the "workhorse" of the flight test programs and stuffed with test racks and water barrels? Isn't MSN002 about to be fitted out with an 853 seat configuration for the emergency evacuation tests in January and February of next year? Perhaps you can define "closer?"

"While the first two A380s are equipped with heavy test instrumentation, this third A380 to take to the air only has a medium sized instrumentation. After complete checks, it will fly to Hamburg in the coming days, where it will be the first to be fitted with a full cabin."

http://www.airbus.com/en/presscentre...eases_items/11_04_05_3rd_A380.html

[Edited 2005-11-06 21:22:55]
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
A319XFW
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RE: A380 Problems, What Are They?

Mon Nov 07, 2005 5:24 am

MSN001 is the 'workhorse' of the test programme. Then there are the 2 cabin test aircraft and then MSN004 is the performance test aircraft.
But it's MSN001 which is the main test aircraft as such, as Airbus will keep it after the others have gone to the customers. (like MSN001 A320 and A340 and the first A340-600)
 
SATL382G
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RE: A380 Problems, What Are They?

Mon Nov 07, 2005 5:24 am

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 11):
But you're free not to believe Airbus if that suits you better.

I didn't say I didn't believe them, I'm sure they do have some issues with the interiors. I just don't think it justifies a 6-month delay......
"There’s nothing quite as exhilarating as being shot at and missed" --Winston Churchill
 
BoomBoom
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RE: A380 Problems, What Are They?

Mon Nov 07, 2005 6:22 am

Did Airbus ever solve the weight problem with the A380? Does anyone know how much it weighs? I would think with three of them flying we should be getting some solid numbers from Airbus.
Our eyes are open, our eyes are open--wide, wide, wide...
 
dynkrisolo
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Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2001 12:12 am

RE: A380 Problems, What Are They?

Mon Nov 07, 2005 6:31 am

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 15):
Both of the delayed aircraft are having interiors fitted as part of the test program, that is why this is not a problem to be addressed at a later date. Both aircraft are closer to the configuration that will be delivered to customers, and both will be used in proving.

Just to show how much you know. AFAIK, MSN001 and 004 are not going to SQ. MSN001 stays with Airbus. MSN004 will go to Etihad. Why don't you go read 772lr's flight test blog. Their first test aircraft is now being refurbished after completing the flight test. According to the blog it will take three months to complete the refurbishment. That's what both Airbus and Boeing usually do with their test airplanes.

Quote:
Airbus has no public shareholders, it is answerable to noone but EADS, BAE and its customers, what reason in HELL does it have to lie about delays to the public?

I didn't say they lied. They just didn't tell all the reasons behind the delay. Boeing is also a publicly listed company. They didn't explain to the public all the details of their 737ng production ramp up problems in 1997. The investment community in general doesn't have the knowledge to digest the details. The investment community is usually content to know the company they are investing doesn't hide any major problems. There are plenty of examples of publicly listed companies tried to hide their problems. I'm sure you have heard of whistleblowers, and read many scandal reports of the corporate world by inquisitive journalists.

My simple point is being a publicly listed company doesn't guarantee that they will tell the world every problem they have. Even when they disclose all their problems, it doesn't mean they will explain all the root causes of their problems.

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 13):
My God, that's the dumbest post I've seen on here for a while.

Insulting people doesn't get you anywhere. The simple fact is you are interpreting what's known to the public. You made an assumption that Airbus will disclose everything, and refuse to consider other evidences. If you can't try to look at the subject with an objective mind, no one will listen to your complaints about those anti-380 extremists.

You insulted me because you believe what you learned from the public is the absolute truth, but is it? Time and time, you have demonstrated that you are selective of what you want to believe in the media. There is nothing wrong with that. When you're being selective, you can't fault others being selective either.

Let me give you one last example. When the 380 overweight rumor first surfaced, Airbus quickly denied it. Then some exec from Airbus admitted the weight problem but insisted the 380 would meet fuel burn spec even before the aircraft took to the sky. Then an engineering exec claimed the OEW was actually under "target", but the million-dollar question is what target was he referring to. Who should I believe? And who did you believe? When Airbus execs can't speak with one voice, then people will take what they say with a grain of salt.
 
Ruscoe
Posts: 1586
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 1999 5:41 pm

RE: A380 Problems, What Are They?

Mon Nov 07, 2005 6:39 am

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and goes quack; Its a Duck.

The 380 was delayed 6 months, that a fact.

Several problems with the structure, and production problems have been agreed by Airbus, and now they have a engine problem which they share with RR, and which will probably be quickly fixed.

This is not terribly unusual, and happens to Boeing from time to time also. eg Flutter in the tailplane of 739 was a problem now corrected.

What was unusual was the very poor PR and Customer relations of Airbus in handling this problem.

As RichardPrice said, "Airbus has no public shareholders" and this is a big part of the problems faced by Airbus. Hidden as they are behind EADS and with more political interference than is healthy, it is not surprising that their response to these problems sounds more like a political apologist than the worlds leading producer of Commercial Aircraft.

Ruscoe
 
Scorpio
Posts: 4804
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2001 3:48 am

RE: A380 Problems, What Are They?

Mon Nov 07, 2005 7:15 am

Quoting Dynkrisolo (Reply 20):
Insulting people doesn't get you anywhere.

I wasn't insulting you, I was talking about your POST being the dumbest I've seen in a while. I didn't say a thing about YOU anywhere.

I will say though that you seem to have some serious problems with simple reading comprehension, i.e. what people write vs. what you THINK people write. And that's not trying to be tongue-in-cheek or trying to be a smartass, I'm actually dead serious here. Another illustration of that?

Quoting Dynkrisolo (Reply 20):
You insulted me because you believe what you learned from the public is the absolute truth, but is it?

Two in one sentence here:

1) As I said earlier, I never said anything about you, just about your post. Go re-read my previous post. Everybody does stupid things, and your previous post was stupid. That's not the same as me calling you stupid.

2) You claim that I believe what Airbus says is the absolute truth. Point is, I never said that, or even alluded to that. Again: read what I said again. The fact that I used words and phrases like 'seems' and 'that we know of' alone makes it pretty clear to most people that I am NOT taking these things as the gospel and absolute truth, but that I take into account the possibility that there ARE things that we don't know about. Why else would I have said the 'that we know of' part? I'd have no reason for that. At all.

Unfortunately, chances are you will reply to this claiming I'm trying to twist my own words or something to that effect, or trying to convince me that I did say the things I never said. I can only hope that you will prove me wrong on that one, and that this retarded 'try to put words into the other's mouth' game can stop here.

Good night.
 
blast
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Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 1:25 am

RE: A380 Problems, What Are They?

Mon Nov 07, 2005 8:03 am

Another problem that may be facing the A380, as has been discussed in numerous other threads as well, is the question whether the A380 will be a commercial success. As far as I know about 250 should be sold, but there have been so many conflicting news releases on that...

I personally believe there is a market for the plane, but it is to be hoped for airbus that it is going to be big enough to break even and make a profit.
 
dynkrisolo
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Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2001 12:12 am

RE: A380 Problems, What Are They?

Mon Nov 07, 2005 8:22 am

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 22):
I will say though that you seem to have some serious problems with simple reading comprehension

You can say whatever you want to say. You are stating your opinions. That's all I have been trying to say. The other people that you were accusing of stated their opinions, too, just like you. Some opinions are worse than others. I'm not here to judge whose is worse. I'm just pointing out people form opinions without all the facts. You do it, I do it, and most other people do that.

Instead of discussing this general observation which in the center of my argument, it is you who want to play with words. You always run away from the meat of the discussion but dwell on some meaningless word play.

You can deny all you want, but when you regurgitated the interior configuration as the sole reason for the 380 delay, it is quite clear you chose to believe what Airbus has told the public. When Airbus has to deliver airplanes to only one airline in the first six months, and the test airplanes are not even destined for that airline, the interior configuration excuse simply doesn't explain why it took three months from the Reveal of the first aircraft to its first flight, another 4.5 months for the second aircraft first flight, and slide the whole delivery schedule for the first two years by six months.
 
whitehatter
Posts: 5180
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 6:52 am

RE: A380 Problems, What Are They?

Mon Nov 07, 2005 9:44 am

Quoting Blast (Reply 23):
Another problem that may be facing the A380, as has been discussed in numerous other threads as well, is the question whether the A380 will be a commercial success. As far as I know about 250 should be sold, but there have been so many conflicting news releases on that...

but where in the aircraft builders buible does it state that they all have to be sold before the aircraft goes into service?

Did people stop buying the 767 or 747 as soon as it started to be delivered?

Quoting Dynkrisolo (Reply 20):
They just didn't tell all the reasons behind the delay.

So which serial number have you bought?

Otherwise you have no need at all to be in the loop with regard to Airbus and its detailed discussions with clients. What they tell the public and what they discuss in confidentiality with clients are two different things. Especially when the delays are down to customisation which varies from client to client, and is unprecedented in its complexity or available options. Some of those discussions relating to problems will be marketing secrets or confidentiality clause items.

Something which the cheerleaders like to fasten on to, and ridicule, is the mockup which showed stuff like waterfalls and gyms. That was a statement of what can be done with an immensely flexible interior, but the less cerebrally gifted saw it as something it was not. Namely a bill of goods for the complete aircraft.

The reality is that airlines can customise and specify what they want in the space with the kind of at-seat amenities they would have loved to provide before, plus additional areas where other facilities like showers or bars can be added. That takes a lot pf planning and design when the airlines can choose from so many options, hence the delays caused by getting it right.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
jbmflyer
Posts: 34
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2005 9:50 am

RE: A380 Problems, What Are They?

Mon Nov 07, 2005 10:04 am

Im a long time reader, however, this thread has spurred me to join up to put in my two cents.

I mean this is no way shape or form to insult anyone, but I found one interesting continuing theme on some threads and it relates to an experience I was lucky enough to have a few weeks ago at the Industry Advisory Board Forum for Embry-Riddle. In attendance was Helen Weston of Airbus and another executive from Boeing I found them to be in good spirits, poking and prodding in a friendly manner along with the other speakers during the question and answer session that involved many questions ranging from orders for the 787 and A-380 to performance expectations.

Now the reason for my post, I find it interesting to note that people here (many of whom have absolutely no personal vested interest in either company, meaning that even if you work for an airline and Airbus is picked over Boeing, your airline will more than likely not fold) will fight to the death over which is better, and which one is a better aircraft and which has more orders and why. If these discussions were conducted in a face to face fashion I would not be surprised to hear "20 paces and pistols!!!!" shouted. The point is, if the Airbus and Boeing executives, who do have a very big interest in the success of their company, can get a long with each other and even go to Outback for dinner, why can't the posters here with no involvement in these two companies do the same?

This whole argument is so silly it is actually rather funny. So with that being said, I would like to say "ding ding ding, round 7" continue the fight to the death over something so mundane it can be related to getting yelled at for me not putting the toilet seat down in my home.


Again, I mean no harm nor do I direct these comments at anyone in particular, I am merely making an observation, I care not who started this argument nor who finishes it.
A pilots heart, mind and soul stuck in a 8-5 bankers chair.............
 
Ruscoe
Posts: 1586
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 1999 5:41 pm

RE: A380 Problems, What Are They?

Mon Nov 07, 2005 10:16 am

Welcome Jbmflyer,

It's like supporting your favourite football team. Your team has got to do something very bad to cause a defection.

Face to face the Airbus and Boeing camps on A.Net would go off to dinner to-gether given the chance.

What I would like to know is what you gleaned from the Industry Advisory Board Forum, which might be of interest to us!!

Ruscoe
 
TinkerBelle
Posts: 1436
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2005 7:46 am

RE: A380 Problems, What Are They?

Mon Nov 07, 2005 10:56 am

Quoting 767-332ER (Thread starter):
A number of people have kept mentioning about the plaguing A380 problems, and I am curious as to what they are and if someone could list those for me?

I'm surprised nobody here has mentioned the problem with the 'ugliness' of the plane. Unfortunately, Airbus can't do anything about it now  Wink
If you are going through hell, keep going.
 
grantcv
Posts: 410
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2005 1:28 pm

RE: A380 Problems, What Are They?

Mon Nov 07, 2005 10:59 am

I am going to make a guess about the state of the A380. There are currently several serious issues that need to be resolved. The same can be said for every other airplane project since the Wright brothers. The issue with the interiors is probably much less an issue that it has been represented as. I would guess it makes a clever excuse behind which other more serious issues can be hidden. I have worked on many projects in my career, including some at Boeing, and every project has come up with some excuse that sounds positive but which really hides other problems: "The reception of the new features has been so overwhelmingly positive that we are pushing forward some enhancements", "The customer is using our product in ways beyond which we originally anticipated", "After getting an idea what we can do, the customer wants more". These are marketing excuses.
 
trevd
Posts: 332
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2004 1:51 pm

RE: A380 Problems, What Are They?

Mon Nov 07, 2005 11:07 am

In an attempt to get this conversation back on track....

Has anyone heard more on the engine removal issue? Particularly from RR? Removing one engine from a 1st of model flight test aircraft would normally be a significant concern, even more so if subsequent engine removals are recommended by the manufacturer for safety.

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 4):
Airbus had overheat problems on 2 of the RR engines.
They decided to change one, then a second, and finally the 4 engines as a precaution, on msn 001 (F-WWOW) before starting the tour in South East Asia.
 
redflyer
Posts: 3882
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2005 3:30 am

RE: A380 Problems, What Are They?

Mon Nov 07, 2005 11:30 am

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 21):
What was unusual was the very poor PR and Customer relations of Airbus in handling this problem.

That was probably the biggest "problem" encountered by the 380, not the performance or spec issues. Given Airbus' slick P.R. machine, this was a very serious mis-step on their part.

In the final analysis, Airbus did make a very positive statement a few weeks ago by stating unequivocally that the project will not be delayed further; therefore, we have to assume all problems, whether they are weight or electrical or whatever, have been resolved.
My other home is in the sky inside my Piper Cherokee 180.
 
ikramerica
Posts: 13807
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: A380 Problems, What Are They?

Mon Nov 07, 2005 11:35 am

Everything is fine, nothing at all is wrong or has ever been wrong, and never has a program been run so effectively and efficiently. All customers are happy, all delayed deliveries and tests were planned that way, and anyone who says otherwise is just an Airbus bashing, boeing loving ignorant American.

Have a nice day.  Smile
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
StuckInCA
Posts: 1618
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 12:55 pm

RE: A380 Problems, What Are They?

Mon Nov 07, 2005 1:01 pm

Quoting Jbmflyer (Reply 28):
If these discussions were conducted in a face to face fashion I would not be surprised to hear "20 paces and pistols!!!!" shouted. The point is, if the Airbus and Boeing executives, who do have a very big interest in the success of their company, can get a long with each other and even go to Outback for dinner, why can't the posters here with no involvement in these two companies do the same?

Internet forums do strange things to people. I think the conversations would be MUCH more civil in a face to face setting.
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 18403
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: A380 Problems, What Are They?

Mon Nov 07, 2005 1:13 pm

Quoting TinkerBelle (Reply 30):
I'm surprised nobody here has mentioned the problem with the 'ugliness' of the plane.

Perhaps not everyone thinks it is ugly? I think it is a bit of a relief.

I grew up with the Boeing Stratocruiser as the pinnacle of passenger aircraft transport.

It was a terrific plane, but not even the Constellation thought the Stratocruiser was pretty.

As such, I find the A380 a bit of a relief from all those cigar tubes with wings that everyone is designing now. I have problems telling 'em apart.

 Smile

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
gmidy
Posts: 48
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 12:25 am

RE: A380 Problems, What Are They?

Mon Nov 07, 2005 1:26 pm

I think you guys need to stop speculating/arguing about when an aircraft is going to be launched into service, can we not celebrate the fact that a new passenger aircraft has taken to the skies, or are we going to argue soon whether that is crap on the underside of the fuselage.
Lawrence
 
MarshalN
Posts: 1474
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 9:39 am

RE: A380 Problems, What Are They?

Mon Nov 07, 2005 1:35 pm

Quoting Gmidy (Reply 37):
I think you guys need to stop speculating/arguing about when an aircraft is going to be launched into service, can we not celebrate the fact that a new passenger aircraft has taken to the skies, or are we going to argue soon whether that is crap on the underside of the fuselage.

I'd rather argue whether that is crap on the underside of the fuselage than to argue about hypothetical and unknowns, like "A350 will suck compared to the 787", or "747Adv is a non-starter" or other some such threads, which consist of 95% speculation and 4.9% misinformation.
 
TinkerBelle
Posts: 1436
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2005 7:46 am

RE: A380 Problems, What Are They?

Mon Nov 07, 2005 1:37 pm

Quoting Mariner (Reply 36):
Perhaps not everyone thinks it is ugly? I think it is a bit of a relief.

If we didn't have differences in life, this would be one hell of a boring world so you're right, not everyone thinks it's ugly. I personally think it's uglier than the Airbus Super transporter although I can't wait to see it and fly on it...but again, who cares how it looks really.



Quoting Mariner (Reply 36):
It was a terrific plane, but not even the Constellation thought the Stratocruiser was pretty.

The stratocruiser was far uglier than the whalejet for sure.
If you are going through hell, keep going.
 
Scorpio
Posts: 4804
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2001 3:48 am

RE: A380 Problems, What Are They?

Mon Nov 07, 2005 5:51 pm

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 24):
Nope. Wrong again Mr. Pendejo. You offend people-they respond poorly-then you conclude that you were correct in your pronouncements.

That's merely called being offensive.
See, you're like a guy in a bar, says he can whip anyone's ass, gets knocked to the floor and then says "See. I was right about all these people."

Nitwit.

Another illustration of my previous point: no arguments, so personal insults. I don't insult people, I criticize actions. If you feel offended by that, you need to grow a pair. Unlike you, I don't feel the need to call people nitwits or other semi-clever names. It's well known that once you resort to namecalling, like you so beautifully did, it's because you can't win the argument.

Seriously, let's look at that first post of mine again. Who did I offend? Am I offending anyone when I say there are a number of people who have been painting a doom and gloom picture of the A380? Or when I say they're just guessing? Didn't think so...

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 3):
The problem is that the 'number of people' you are referring to have been painting a doom and gloom picture of the A380 for a while now, jumping on every piece of news or lack thereof to attack Airbus and the A380. It's a sad state of affairs that such a hate campaign exists on what is supposed to be an enthusiast board, but I guess that's just the way these things go.

Some advice: If these people barge in here (and I'm afraid the question is rather 'when' iso 'if') remember one thing: They don't know the facts, they're just guessing.



Quoting Dynkrisolo (Reply 25):
You are stating your opinions. That's all I have been trying to say.

No, you were stating that I was stating that my words were presented by me as the Gospel, the absolute truth. Which was never the case, but I don't think I need to explain the reasoning behind that one again.

And I wasn't stating my opinion, I was stating what is OFFICIALLY known. The thread starter asked what the problems were, I merely said what is known. He asked for facts, not speculation. Since there are little facts known, I carfully worded my response (hence the abundance of 'seems' and 'that we know of' in there).
 
GBan
Posts: 488
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 5:10 pm

RE: A380 Problems, What Are They?

Mon Nov 07, 2005 6:32 pm

Quoting Dynkrisolo (Reply 12):
If you insist, let's analyze what you have said:

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 3):
As far as flight testing is concerned, so far no serious problems seem to have surfaced that we know of.

Please analyze the whole sentence if you claim to "analyze". I think this sentence has a different meaning if you include "that we know of"  Wink
 
764
Posts: 490
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2001 6:34 pm

RE: A380 Problems, What Are They?

Mon Nov 07, 2005 6:52 pm

I doubt that any of us really know anything. However, the utmost secrecy with which Airbus carries out testing and the little facts they feed to the public are a little worrying. What exactly is going on with the pressurization system and how could the engines problems be resolved? Also, in how far do the delays already announced imply that there will be further delays?

Another question - as far as I know there haven't been any tests involving "passengers" yet. I myself am a little worried about evacuation procedures and even just regular boarding / deplaning operations. Many airlines may not want an aircraft that carries twice as many passengers, but also needs twice as long (or longer) to turn around.

For now I think they are busy testing and troubleshooting avionics and they should have completed that a while ago. So we will have to see. But I don't think that we will actually receive any honest statements from airbus. There also won't be any whistleblowing after at least one person has gotten prosecuted for it.
 
klmcedric
Posts: 696
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 11:19 pm

RE: A380 Problems, What Are They?

Mon Nov 07, 2005 7:23 pm

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 9):
Tell me Mr. high school teacher



Quoting Dougloid (Reply 24):
Nope. Wrong again Mr. Pendejo.



Quoting TinkerBelle (Reply 30):
I'm surprised nobody here has mentioned the problem with the 'ugliness' of the plane. Unfortunately, Airbus can't do anything about it now

And to think I've been insulted by someone calling me childish for wishing
people who can do no better than those kind of remarks would stay out of these threads!
 
richm
Posts: 599
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2004 1:21 pm

RE: A380 Problems, What Are They?

Mon Nov 07, 2005 8:24 pm

There was a problem with the gear getting caught on the gear doors, so the gear couldn't deploy properly. It has been fixed though.
 
User avatar
breiz
Posts: 1426
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:12 pm

RE: A380 Problems, What Are They?

Tue Nov 08, 2005 7:41 am

Ok. So, if I understand correctly, the A380 is poorly designed, questionably manufactured and obviously badly managed. Its structure looks to be made out of rubber, its engines won't last long and its a kind of a miracle that it flies.
Yet, despite all these flaws plus the delay Airbus is supposed to communicate so little about, its customers are eager to get it as fast as possible.
No doubt because they do not want to miss such an opportunity to loose money big time.
 
StuckInCA
Posts: 1618
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 12:55 pm

RE: A380 Problems, What Are They?

Tue Nov 08, 2005 7:56 am

Quoting Breiz (Reply 44):
Ok. So, if I understand correctly, the A380 is poorly designed, questionably manufactured and obviously badly managed. Its structure looks to be made out of rubber, its engines won't last long and its a kind of a miracle that it flies.
Yet, despite all these flaws plus the delay Airbus is supposed to communicate so little about, its customers are eager to get it as fast as possible.
No doubt because they do not want to miss such an opportunity to loose money big time.

Good thing you qualified your statement, because it seems that you don't understand correctly.  Smile
 
TGV
Posts: 717
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2004 1:37 pm

RE: A380 Problems, What Are They?

Tue Nov 08, 2005 8:03 am

Quoting RichM (Reply 42):
There was a problem with the gear getting caught on the gear doors, so the gear couldn't deploy properly. It has been fixed though.

This was only during emergency deployment (when the landing gear has to go down using only its own weight, and not hydraulic pressure, pushing down the doors). It was shown in a TV broadcast some months ago.
Avoid 777 with 3-4-3 config in Y ! They are real sardine cans
 
NAV20
Posts: 8453
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2003 3:25 pm

RE: A380 Problems, What Are They?

Tue Nov 08, 2005 10:10 am

Quoting TGV (Reply 46):
This was only during emergency deployment (when the landing gear has to go down using only its own weight, and not hydraulic pressure, pushing down the doors).

Sorry, TGV, can't resist commenting on that. Does the fact that the wheels were only going to 'hang up' in emergency situations mean that it wasn't a problem and didn't have to be fixed?  Smile

I'm afraid that that sort of over-reaction is the reason why Airbus fans get their legs pulled about the A380 so much. RichM's original post was self-sufficient - there had been a problem and it had been fixed. But you felt the need to comment further, and ended up suggesting that (because it would only have happened at the worst possible time  Smile) it somehow hadn't been a problem at all.
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
glacote
Posts: 357
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2005 1:44 am

RE: A380 Problems, What Are They?

Tue Nov 08, 2005 1:09 pm

Quoting TinkerBelle (Reply 43):
What the hell is your problem, really? Just because I said that I think the whalejet is ugly doesn't mean it's a childish comment.

No it is not. However that you portrait this as a "problem" is probably dubious - unless you explain why it is so. Not even counting the question of whether it is or not.

For what I have understood:
- problem with the landing gear. Not very serious (so easily fixed).
- problem with airports not being ready. Probably much exaggerated; most delays lie in immigration/security checks IMHO.
- problem with overweight. Due (Airbus said) mainly because of engines specifications having changed to meet stricter noise restrictions at LHR. Solved by adding more carbon - notably in the wings. I recall something like 5t overweight _before_ any addressing of the problem. Weight target should probably we within less than 1% after structural change (but at an economic cost) - i.e. half of those were recoverd by changes. Note that WOWW is claimed to burn less fuel than expected which may compensate for the problem.
- problem with interior fitting. Claimed to be serious by Airbus. At least one section was delivered by one factory without the required wiring. No idea of how serious this can be.
- problem with the landing gear destroying the ground during extreme testing. To my understanding this is not a problem at all since these were precisely extreme testing and even those landing gear which shall normally rotate where blocked "just to see what happens". They (and we all) saw.
- problem with the tail not meeting initial resistance target after having been heavily modified to save weight. Has probably been fixed since 3 aircrafts fly regularly.
- problem with over-consumption of oil of the prototype RR engines. Apparently still investigated by Rolls Royce. Claimed to be linked to the overheating of one then two of RR engines on WOWW (which then apparently had all engines swaped for safety).
- problem with ugliness. Not everybody agress on this. Besides I doubt this has any implication on the success of the plane - unless proven otherwise.
- problem with launch aids. Already discussed. Don't start a flame war...
- problem with the program never recouping its costs. Apart from the Gellman report there is no hard evidence on this. Time will probably tell. The Gellman report itself is based on very debatable assumptions - and its main conclusions have been denied by Airbus.
- problem with some A.netters really disliking the plane. I can't understand why but that's probably just me.
- problem with the A380 risking of gaining a successful monopoly position on a market where Boeing enjoyed 30%+ margins. Bad for airlines and possibly for consumers. EK argues to the very contrary.
- PR "problem". I am no PR expert so can't tell for myself. I believe Joe average User couldn't care less about the whole thing. Companies missing their peak season may think otherwise. More data on the compensation terms should be required. Airbus denied it would be as much as 100 millions grand total as was rumoured. Exact figure unknown - and probably never disclosed.
- what else?
 
GBan
Posts: 488
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 5:10 pm

RE: A380 Problems, What Are They?

Tue Nov 08, 2005 1:20 pm

Quoting TGV (Reply 46):
This was only during emergency deployment (when the landing gear has to go down using only its own weight, and not hydraulic pressure, pushing down the doors). It was shown in a TV broadcast some months ago.



Quoting NAV20 (Reply 47):
Sorry, TGV, can't resist commenting on that. Does the fact that the wheels were only going to 'hang up' in emergency situations mean that it wasn't a problem and didn't have to be fixed?

I'm afraid that that sort of over-reaction is the reason why Airbus fans get their legs pulled about the A380 so much. RichM's original post was self-sufficient - there had been a problem and it had been fixed. But you felt the need to comment further, and ended up suggesting that (because it would only have happened at the worst possible time ) it somehow hadn't been a problem at all.

NAV20: Where in TGVs 2 sentence post do you read that there wasn't a problem and that it didn't have to be fixed? He gave a slightly more detailed specification of the problem in one sentence and mentioned that it was shown on TV in a second sentence. I have a hard time to find the "sort of over-reaction" you are talking of in TGVs post you quote. To be honest I rather find it in your post  Wink
 
NAV20
Posts: 8453
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2003 3:25 pm

RE: A380 Problems, What Are They?

Tue Nov 08, 2005 2:07 pm

Touche', GBan, possibly I am over-reacting!  Smile I suppose it was the word 'only' that caught my eye. Seemed to suggest that, since the gear not descending only happened on rare occasions (like in emergencies, when you would really need it to!) it wasn't really a problem at all.

Apologies, TGV, if you didn't mean it that way.
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci

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