sevenforeseven
Posts: 124
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2005 4:59 am

Why Always The Old Buses To DEL

Mon Nov 07, 2005 5:30 am

I am a passenger to DEL quite often and am surprised why do VS always fly the oldest aircraft to DEL not to mention BOM. The aircraft always have the old buisness class and crapped out IFE system. BA with the twice daily Delhi will rob the passengers. NOW is the time to put the best aircraft with the new interiors on the route to teach the compettitors what VS can do. I hope they do as VS is a superb airline but need to look after the Delhi passengers too!!!
Oh nearly forgot, the DEL and BOM aircraft are Virgin Nigeria liveried too.
 
Cadet57
Posts: 7174
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:02 am

RE: Why Always The Old Buses To DEL

Mon Nov 07, 2005 5:39 am

Quoting Sevenforeseven (Thread starter):
Oh nearly forgot, the DEL and BOM aircraft are Virgin Nigeria liveried too.

Maybe thats why? its not actually a VS flight but a V. Nigeria flt?
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
sevenforeseven
Posts: 124
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2005 4:59 am

RE: Why Always The Old Buses To DEL

Mon Nov 07, 2005 5:43 am

No Cadet 57, The tickets I have been buying are from Virgin Atlantic.com and NOT VK.
 
varig_dc10
Posts: 330
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2001 2:21 pm

RE: Why Always The Old Buses To DEL

Mon Nov 07, 2005 6:04 am

This topic is aready being debated in the following thread;

"Virgin Atlantc, Flight Cancelled, What To Do?"

And is slowly turning into WW3, in the same way the thread on the Paris riots did.

varig_dc10
 
TinkerBelle
Posts: 1436
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2005 7:46 am

RE: Why Always The Old Buses To DEL

Mon Nov 07, 2005 11:07 am

Well for starters, look up user name 'Ponmath' and he'll probably tell you everything there is to tell on G-VBUS which is the Virgin Nigeria A340 that mostly flies to BOM. The guy hates G-VBUS and VS with a passion.

Like Varig_dc10 said, check out that thread and you'll get your question answered.
If you are going through hell, keep going.
 
Pomnath
Posts: 384
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2005 6:55 am

RE: Why Always The Old Buses To DEL

Mon Nov 07, 2005 11:53 am

Quoting TinkerBelle (Reply 4):
Well for starters, look up user name 'Ponmath' and he'll probably tell you everything there is to tell on G-VBUS which is the Virgin Nigeria A340 that mostly flies to BOM. The guy hates G-VBUS and VS with a passion.

That is incorrect, I do not hate VS. Actually I love VS. It is just that I am unable to justify why they put the Nigerian aircraft on LHR-DEL route all the time.
Sea to Sky, Racists should Die!!
 
AirplanePeanut
Posts: 407
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 12:00 am

RE: Why Always The Old Buses To DEL

Mon Nov 07, 2005 11:58 am

Quoting Pomnath (Reply 5):
It is just that I am unable to justify why they put the Nigerian aircraft

It's still owned by Virgin, just not in VS livery, but VK livery.

  Peanut

[Edited 2005-11-07 03:59:07]
..
 
Kahala777
Posts: 1513
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 7:28 am

RE: Why Always The Old Buses To DEL

Mon Nov 07, 2005 12:00 pm

Quoting Sevenforeseven (Thread starter):
I am a passenger to DEL quite often and am surprised why do VS always fly the oldest aircraft to DEL not to mention BOM.

This sounds exactly like the thread that seems to be bashing VS!

"Virgin Atlantc, Flight Cancelled, What To Do?"

Quoting Sevenforeseven (Thread starter):
NOW is the time to put the best aircraft with the new interiors on the route to teach the compettitors what VS can do

This sounds exactly like the thread that seems to be bashing VS!

"Virgin Atlantc, Flight Cancelled, What To Do?"

Quoting Sevenforeseven (Thread starter):
I hope they do as VS is a superb airline but need to look after the Delhi passengers too!!!

This sounds exactly like the thread that seems to be bashing VS!

"Virgin Atlantc, Flight Cancelled, What To Do?"


KAHALA777
 
planeboy
Posts: 752
Joined: Sat May 21, 2005 2:56 am

RE: Why Always The Old Buses To DEL

Mon Nov 07, 2005 3:53 pm

Its not only the VS. There are other culprits too who put old dino machines to Indian routes.

Nothwest - DC-10-30, BOM
Saudi Arabian - 747-200, BOM / MAA
Thai Airways - AB6, BLR
and many more which I am not aware of..

Note, all these are high density / high yield routes and all these airllines have shiny new aircrafts. I wonder why they end up sending these a/cs.

Other operators like BG, IR and Ariana needs to be excused since they only have 60's stuff with them.

Note: I am not against these aircrafts. Infact I love elegant looking NWs DC-10s. But I don't understand the logic behind operating them to India with ever growing business pax seats.
 
Pomnath
Posts: 384
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2005 6:55 am

RE: Why Always The Old Buses To DEL

Mon Nov 07, 2005 4:00 pm

Quoting Planeboy (Reply 8):
Nothwest - DC-10-30, BOM
Saudi Arabian - 747-200, BOM / MAA
Thai Airways - AB6, BLR
and many more which I am not aware of

None of them, barring maybe TG, make the wild kind of hype and promises that VS does about its "service". That's the difference. When you fly NW or Saudia, you know the indifferent kind of service you will get and about the old aircraft that will operate. Likewise, Thai's reputation is also taking a nosedive.

Similarly, within domestic flights in India, you know that you will get reasonably old aircraft from Indian Airlines, mixed bag from Air Sahara, brand new planes from Jet Airways and Kingfisher, reasonably new planes from Deccan and efficient modern 737-800s from SpiceJet.

But VS? They put out these ads, SRB does the hype, and then you get . . . an old Nigerian airplane!

It is not just the age. It is also the potential liability issue.
Sea to Sky, Racists should Die!!
 
jaysit
Posts: 10186
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 11:50 pm

RE: Why Always The Old Buses To DEL

Mon Nov 07, 2005 4:08 pm

Quoting Pomnath (Reply 9):
It is not just the age. It is also the potential liability issue.

What liability issue?

Service advertisements are subject to interpretation by the consumer. VS can just turn around and say that their service standards are not compromised by an eight year old A340.

Besides, BOM is not the only destination to get VS's older A340s.

And, NW fly their DC10s to all sorts of European destinations.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
Pomnath
Posts: 384
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2005 6:55 am

RE: Why Always The Old Buses To DEL

Mon Nov 07, 2005 4:20 pm

Liability issues of the sort where, should anybody suffer any sort of injury or other damage on board, then are they governed by Indian, British or Nigerian laws?
Sea to Sky, Racists should Die!!
 
jaysit
Posts: 10186
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 11:50 pm

RE: Why Always The Old Buses To DEL

Mon Nov 07, 2005 4:37 pm

Quoting Pomnath (Reply 11):
Liability issues of the sort where, should anybody suffer any sort of injury or other damage on board, then are they governed by Indian, British or Nigerian laws?

Why would Nigeria have anything to do with the issue here?

Virgin Nigeria is a subsidiary of Virgin Atlantic; the maintenance and operation of the aircraft is done by Virgin Atlantic; the aircraft with its Virgin Nigeria livery is being operated as a Virgin Atlantic flight. Nigeria is basically an after thought here.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
Pomnath
Posts: 384
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2005 6:55 am

RE: Why Always The Old Buses To DEL

Mon Nov 07, 2005 4:47 pm

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 12):
Why would Nigeria have anything to do with the issue here?

Virgin Nigeria is a Joint Venture between Virgin Atantic and Nigeria, it is the official flag carrier of Nigeria.
Sea to Sky, Racists should Die!!
 
jaysit
Posts: 10186
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 11:50 pm

RE: Why Always The Old Buses To DEL

Mon Nov 07, 2005 5:03 pm

Quoting Pomnath (Reply 13):
Virgin Nigeria is a Joint Venture between Virgin Atantic and Nigeria, it is the official flag carrier of Nigeria.

Virgin Nigeria is Nigeria's private sector flag carrier51% owned by Nigerian institutional investors and 49% owned by Virgin Atlantic.

The Nigerian government has precious little to do with it.

Besides, the operation of the Virgin Nigeria A340 by Virgin Atlantic on a Virgin Atlantic flight pretty much puts the legal liability on Virgin Atlantic as governed by UK or Indian laws (depending on what the issue is). The Virgin Nigeria aircraft are also maintained and serviced by VS.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
Lufthansa
Posts: 2303
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 6:04 am

RE: Why Always The Old Buses To DEL

Mon Nov 07, 2005 5:25 pm

Quoting Sevenforeseven (Thread starter):
I am a passenger to DEL quite often and am surprised why do VS always fly the oldest aircraft to DEL not to mention BOM. The aircraft always have the old buisness class and crapped out IFE system.

I'm sorry but this is such a typical wealthy Indian attitude. Get over it, India is not the centre of the universe, and although its got billions of ppl, and a hell of a lot of millionaires, it is not, and never will be, London, New York, Paris Hong kong or Tokyo. Wealthy indians (they're not alone...Nigerians etc of wealth tend to be just as bad) are so used to being waited on hand and foot they expect everybody and everycompany on the planet to drop to the feet and meet their every wish and demand. Well tough titties. Your own home grown companies aren't exactly that crash hot now are they? So maybe...before VS gets bashed, you guys should get on Air India's and friends backs. Seriously, VS sending an 8 yr, current generation aircraft is hardly doing tough. How old are the Boeing 733s and 734s that QF, BA and LH fly? Or the MD-80s that SK fly? Get real, is all i can say. and if you do have a major problem with it, simple...fly another airline.
 
sevenforeseven
Posts: 124
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2005 4:59 am

RE: Why Always The Old Buses To DEL

Mon Nov 07, 2005 5:50 pm

A bit strong Lufthansa. All I am trying to say is why VS do not use the Virgin Nigeria airplane on any other routes except India and understandably Nigeria. Lets not forget that they charge the same fare for the old business class as the new yet India do not get the new one.

Point made. Case closed.
 
jaysit
Posts: 10186
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 11:50 pm

RE: Why Always The Old Buses To DEL

Mon Nov 07, 2005 10:05 pm

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 15):
Get over it, India is not the centre of the universe, and although its got billions of ppl, and a hell of a lot of millionaires, it is not, and never will be, London, New York, Paris Hong kong or Tokyo. Wealthy indians (they're not alone...Nigerians etc of wealth tend to be just as bad) are so used to being waited on hand and foot they expect everybody and everycompany on the planet to drop to the feet and meet their every wish and demand.

But wealthy Indians (and Nigerians) pay the same fares as wealthy New Yorkers, Parisians etc. So, they're entitled to having a Business Class product that is advertised with a fully functional IFE, just as much wealthy New Yorkers are. When you dish out $ 5000 for a Delhi-London ticket, the last thing you want is some twit telling you that Delhi ain Paris or Tokyo or that the $ 5000 dished out by some rich Delhi-ite aint got the same sheen as the same dough dished out by a Brit or an American.

If Virgin adopted the same attitude you have, they'll be flying empty from India very soon. I guess tough titties to them too.

And what does Air India have to do with any of this? When you pay the fare for a Virgin Business Class experience and receive a less than stellar experience, having said twit tell you that being Indian you should be used to Air India's J Class product is a racist idiotic rant that hopefully any sane airline wouldn't adopt.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
airxliban
Posts: 4285
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 12:14 pm

RE: Why Always The Old Buses To DEL

Mon Nov 07, 2005 10:15 pm

note my last reply in the "Virgin Atlantic, Flight Cancelled, What to do?" thread - i am sorry to say it but i have a feeling it might be true.
PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
 
Pomnath
Posts: 384
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2005 6:55 am

RE: Why Always The Old Buses To DEL

Mon Nov 07, 2005 11:25 pm

Quoting AirxLiban (Reply 18):
note my last reply in the "Virgin Atlantic, Flight Cancelled, What to do?" thread - i am sorry to say it but i have a feeling it might be true.



PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE

Why should you be sorry. You are correct. The more I think of it, the more Paris reminds me of Beirut. Yup, the bit where it says "Paris is Berut", sure. Especially where the cars are smelling . . . of burnt rubber and bad petrol.
Sea to Sky, Racists should Die!!
 
User avatar
HAWK21M
Posts: 29867
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

RE: Why Always The Old Buses To DEL

Mon Nov 07, 2005 11:25 pm

Quoting Pomnath (Reply 5):
It is just that I am unable to justify why they put the Nigerian aircraft on LHR-DEL route all the time.

I just spoke to Nimish who travelled Virgin Atlantic DEL-LON.Hes currently in LON.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
jaysit
Posts: 10186
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 11:50 pm

RE: Why Always The Old Buses To DEL

Mon Nov 07, 2005 11:34 pm

Quoting Pomnath (Reply 19):
Especially where the cars are smelling . . . of burnt rubber and bad petrol.

You must be confusing Paris with Delhi then.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
airxliban
Posts: 4285
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 12:14 pm

RE: Why Always The Old Buses To DEL

Tue Nov 08, 2005 12:13 am

Quoting Pomnath (Reply 19):
Why should you be sorry. You are correct. The more I think of it, the more Paris reminds me of Beirut. Yup, the bit where it says "Paris is Berut", sure. Especially where the cars are smelling . . . of burnt rubber and bad petrol.

You're a barrel of laughs.
PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
 
Kahala777
Posts: 1513
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 7:28 am

RE: Why Always The Old Buses To DEL

Tue Nov 08, 2005 1:11 am

Quoting Planeboy (Reply 8):
Note, all these are high density / high yield routes and all these airllines have shiny new aircrafts. I wonder why they end up sending these a/cs.

Planeboy, India is a high density, not a high yield market. Check your facts and get back to us at a later time. Have you seen the scores of adverts in newspapers for cheap and discounted seats on Virgin from London, Air India from New York? Like I said, check your facts and let us know when you grasp the fact.

Quoting Pomnath (Reply 13):
Virgin Nigeria is a Joint Venture between Virgin Atantic and Nigeria, it is the official flag carrier of Nigeria

Pomnath is at it again, he has hijacked yet another thread and turned it into an anti-Virgin Atlantic rally.

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 17):
the last thing you want is some twit telling you that Delhi ain Paris or Tokyo or that the $ 5000 dished out by some rich Delhi-ite aint got the same sheen as the same dough dished out by a Brit or an American.

Airlines have flagship routes. Delhi and Bombay are flagship for no one airline with the exception of airlines from the Indian subcontinent. When you fly on Virgin Atlantic to Barbados, you dont expect the same glitz as one would on a route such as Los Angeles to London. When you fly Singapore Airlines from Kuala Lumpur to Singapore, you dont expect the same glitz as Hong Kong to San Francisco. When you fly Qantas from Melbourne to Perth, you dont expect the same glitz from Los Angeles to Melbourne. It is a reality. Airlines fly routes for one reason alone - money.

If Delhi and Bombay were such moneymakers - which they are not, then VS would expend a 747-400 on it. However fact of the matter is that India is not the great white way that many people explain it to be.

Something that you also may want to think about. A few years back when I was a Manager for the call center of an international consolidater here in the United States, the most requested seats to India were always, always on Singapore Airlines, Cathay Pacific, and British Airways. As of recent I talked to a friend at the company and they stated yet again that Singapore, Cathay, and British were still the most requested. I asked about Virgin Atlantic, and he said that Virgin has many agreements with places such as STA Travel to offer the lowest fares in the market. When you have an airline offering a bulk number of seats to a company such as STA, you know the yields are not gleaming by any means.


Just be happy than Virgin Atlantic made a decision to fly to India. With passengers ranting and raving like Pomnath and his fellow countrymen, I can hardly see Virgin wanting to risk anything else on India.

KAHALA777

[Edited 2005-11-07 17:36:05]
 
TKMCE
Posts: 819
Joined: Thu May 16, 2002 12:18 pm

RE: Why Always The Old Buses To DEL

Tue Nov 08, 2005 1:25 am

Pomnath is also a platinum flyer in Sahara who has some aircraft which are even older than the Virgin Nigeria Aircraft.

Pomnath, I once flew BOM MAA on a Jet Airways A320 flight in 1997 (yes A320). I didnt get all hot and bothered that, despite purchasing a ticket- a full fare economy ticket mind you - no APEX at thst time -and directly from Jet airways ticket counter at the airport to boot - I ended up boarding a Gulf Air aircraft! (they had leased the aircraft briefly for a month) painted in GF colors and with GF interiors and defintely GF flight crew as well !This was in 1997 - long before the A340s came in! Neither did I see any other passenger on board the aircraft pick up a fight with the cabin crew (due to the breach of promise you know - an all Boeing airline putting pax on a 320- unbeleivable isnt it!).

[Edited 2005-11-07 17:26:26]
 
TKMCE
Posts: 819
Joined: Thu May 16, 2002 12:18 pm

RE: Why Always The Old Buses To DEL

Tue Nov 08, 2005 1:34 am

Edited for a wrong post.

[Edited 2005-11-07 17:36:43]

[Edited 2005-11-07 17:38:46]
 
Pomnath
Posts: 384
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2005 6:55 am

RE: Why Always The Old Buses To DEL

Tue Nov 08, 2005 2:04 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 21):
You must be confusing Paris with Delhi then

No, I am co-relating the situation in Paris with the situation in Beirut.

Quoting AirxLIban (Reply 22):
You're a barrel of laughs

No, you are the one with the signature below your message about Paris and Beirut being similar. Read about Paris lately?

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 23):
India is a high density, not a high yield market. Check your facts and get back to us at a later time. Have you seen the scores of adverts in newspapers for cheap and discounted seats on Virgin from London, Air India from New York?

Have you any idea how Business and First Class sell out before Economy on airlines like BA and 9W on the India-UK routes? No, obviously you don't. And in the same market, VS and AI have to sell their seats in front at discounts.

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 23):
Just be happy than Virgin Atlantic made a decision to fly to India.

Decision? They got on their knees, pleaded and made a big song and dance when they didn't get more frequency. Then, after all that, they put their rattle-traps on the route.

Quoting TKMCE (Reply 24):
Pomnath is also a platinum flyer in Sahara who has some aircraft which are even older than the Virgin Nigeria Aircraft.

I am Gold on Sahara (they don't have a Platinum tier). Sahara have one 1989/90 737-400, which is currently grounded. And Sahara simply don't make any promises any more.

Quoting TKMCE (Reply 24):
Pomnath, I once flew BOM MAA on a Jet Airways A320 flight in 1997 (yes A320). I didnt get all hot and bothered that, despite purchasing a ticket- a full fare economy ticket mind you - no APEX at thst time -and directly from Jet airways ticket counter at the airport to boot - I ended up boarding a Gulf Air aircraft! (they had leased the aircraft briefly for a month) painted in GF colors and with GF interiors and defintely GF flight crew as well !This was in 1997 - long before the A340s came in! Neither did I see any other passenger on board the aircraft pick up a fight with the cabin crew (due to the breach of promise you know - an all Boeing airline putting pax on a 320- unbeleivable isnt it!).

Are you equating Bahrein with Nigeria, by any chance? Please read up about Nigerian aviation before comparing the two.
Sea to Sky, Racists should Die!!
 
TKMCE
Posts: 819
Joined: Thu May 16, 2002 12:18 pm

RE: Why Always The Old Buses To DEL

Tue Nov 08, 2005 2:24 am

Quoting Pomnath (Reply 26):
Are you equating Bahrein with Nigeria, by any chance? Please read up about Nigerian aviation before comparing the two.

Suggest you take a look at the accident investigation report of the GF 320 which went down in the sea a few years back.....!

And come to think if it, the Air India 747 which took off some runway lights at FRA literally closing down the airport was also the evidence of some outstanding airmanship right!!

[Edited 2005-11-07 18:25:56]
 
cedarjet
Posts: 8101
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 1:12 am

RE: Why Always The Old Buses To DEL

Tue Nov 08, 2005 3:31 am

Quoting Pomnath (Reply 26):
No, I am co-relating the situation in Paris with the situation in Beirut.

There is no situation in Beirut, unless you mean the gorgeous girls, tempting cuisine, millenia of history and culture, high rise skyline, beautiful snowy mountains and cedar trees, high tech infrastructure and retail opportunities that would make the governor of Hong Kong blush.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
Kahala777
Posts: 1513
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 7:28 am

RE: Why Always The Old Buses To DEL

Tue Nov 08, 2005 3:42 am

Quoting Pomnath (Reply 26):
No, I am co-relating the situation in Paris with the situation in Beirut.

Beirut and Lebanon are not going through a nationwide riot. You need look no futher than the slums and swallows of Calcutta, to see where there are much bigger problems.

Quoting Pomnath (Reply 26):
No, you are the one with the signature below your message about Paris and Beirut being similar.

Pomnath.... A word to the wise, Beirut, has been referred to as the Paris of the Middle East since the 1950's. To knock Beirut, or Paris, at the game of filthy cities such as Calcutta, or Delhi is very very wrong.

Quoting Pomnath (Reply 26):
They got on their knees, pleaded and made a big song and dance when they didn't get more frequency.

This is not Bollywood! Nor is this a scene from some dramatic play! What you are insinuating is completely false. Completely and totally false!

KAHALA777
 
AirIndiaOne
Posts: 139
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2005 2:10 pm

RE: Why Always The Old Buses To DEL

Tue Nov 08, 2005 3:50 am

Quoting TKMCE (Reply 27):
the Air India 747 which took off some runway lights at FRA literally closing down the airport

Is there a thread going around about this too? Any links etc ?
"You don't have to be crazy to be in aviation, but it helps", JRD Tata
 
blrsea
Posts: 1434
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 2:22 am

RE: Why Always The Old Buses To DEL

Tue Nov 08, 2005 4:48 am

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 29):
This is not Bollywood! Nor is this a scene from some dramatic play! What you are insinuating is completely false. Completely and totally false!

You are wrong my friend. Check this out, and you can google for more such links.

Virgin in India slots appeal

Quote:
Virgin Atlantic is to appeal to the transport secretary, Alistair Darling, for a final decision in the dispute over which airlines should be allowed to use lucrative new slots for flights between Britain and India.
British Airways, Virgin and BMI are fighting over the allocation of 21 new weekly services available under a bilateral treaty with India's government.

At present, BA is the only British carrier with direct flights to India. It operates 19 weekly services but has been accused by rivals of overcharging - it made £38m profit last year from its London-to-Mumbai (formerly Bombay) route, compared to a typical yield of £7m from a long-haul route.

And your point about India routes not making a profit just got flushed Big grin
 
TPASXM787
Posts: 1667
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 6:31 am

RE: Why Always The Old Buses To DEL

Tue Nov 08, 2005 5:00 am

Are you insinuating that an 8-year old A340 is unsafe? Wow... sarcastic 

Big liability there...are you kidding?

If you want a rattletrap/rustbucket go fly a 727. That's a rattletrap.
This is the Last Stop.
 
TinkerBelle
Posts: 1436
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2005 7:46 am

RE: Why Always The Old Buses To DEL

Tue Nov 08, 2005 5:16 am

Quoting Pomnath (Reply 26):
They got on their knees, pleaded and made a big song and dance when they didn't get more frequency. Then, after all that, they put their rattle-traps on the route.



Quoting Blrsea (Reply 31):
You are wrong my friend. Check this out, and you can google for more such links.

The link does not suggest VS 'got to their knees' and pleaded as Pomnath suggests.
If you are going through hell, keep going.
 
airxliban
Posts: 4285
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 12:14 pm

RE: Why Always The Old Buses To DEL

Tue Nov 08, 2005 5:36 am

Quoting TPASXM787 (Reply 32):
Are you insinuating that an 8-year old A340 is unsafe? Wow...

Big liability there...are you kidding?

If you want a rattletrap/rustbucket go fly a 727. That's a rattletrap.

Not to nitpick, because I definitely agree with what you are saying but VBUS was built in 1993.
PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
 
AngelAirways
Posts: 480
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 1999 3:55 am

RE: Why Always The Old Buses To DEL

Tue Nov 08, 2005 5:37 am

Quite simply because they are racist.

a bmi engineer was recently b*tching that the mumbai passengers are "ruining" the interiors of their A330s, jealous that BA and VS have "dedicated" aircraft for trashing on Indian routes.

i can assure you that uk airlines' treatment of their indian and nigerian passengers is not quite the same as their treatment of british and american passengers

sad
 
TPASXM787
Posts: 1667
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 6:31 am

RE: Why Always The Old Buses To DEL

Tue Nov 08, 2005 5:42 am

Quoting AirxLiban (Reply 34):
Not to nitpick, because I definitely agree with what you are saying but VBUS was built in 1993.

I never allow my math skills to get in my way. Big grin
This is the Last Stop.
 
jaysit
Posts: 10186
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 11:50 pm

RE: Why Always The Old Buses To DEL

Tue Nov 08, 2005 6:42 am

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 23):
Planeboy, India is a high density, not a high yield market. Check your facts and get back to us at a later time. Have you seen the scores of adverts in newspapers for cheap and discounted seats on Virgin from London, Air India from New York? Like I said, check your facts and let us know when you grasp the fact.

Not any more.
Check your own so-called facts.
The reality is that First and Business Class cabins out of the high yield markets of Bombay and Delhi go full.

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 23):
Airlines have flagship routes. Delhi and Bombay are flagship for no one airline with the exception of airlines from the Indian subcontinent. When you fly on Virgin Atlantic to Barbados, you dont expect the same glitz as one would on a route such as Los Angeles to London. When you fly Singapore Airlines from Kuala Lumpur to Singapore, you dont expect the same glitz as Hong Kong to San Francisco.

You're comparing apples and oranges. SIN-KUL is a regional route; HKG-SFO is a long distance route. PER-MEL is a regional route; LAX-MEL is not.

LGW to Barbados doesn't command the same fares up front that, say, LHR-JFK does. LHR-BOM in Business Class does, especially since most tend to be unrestricted fares, in contrast to LGW-Barbados which tend to be restricted J class fares. There is a reason why BA, LH, SR, AF, etc., go full out of India in their First and Business Class cabins. If VS treat the premium Indian customer like a hapless chump, she'll respond by choosing another carrier.

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 23):
Just be happy than Virgin Atlantic made a decision to fly to India.

Why? As you yourself stated, airlines fly routes for one reason - to make money. Why should the Indian passenger be thankful for Virgin's entry into the market, especially since Virgin was tripping all over itself to enter the Indian market?

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 23):
Have you seen the scores of adverts in newspapers for cheap and discounted seats on Virgin from London, Air India from New York?

Have you seen the scores of adverts in the US Sunday papers for cheap fares on Virgin and United to London from the East coast? I can get a fare on Virgin from Dulles for less than $ 400. What's your point?

While Pomnath's rant on Virgin's "old" A340s may be absurd (I still have to witness an "old" A340), your rant in response is both offensive and racist.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
blrsea
Posts: 1434
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 2:22 am

RE: Why Always The Old Buses To DEL

Tue Nov 08, 2005 8:28 am

Quoting Tinkerbelle (Reply 33):
The link does not suggest VS 'got to their knees' and pleaded as Pomnath suggests.

Why would they go on appeal if they weren't desperate? "got to their knees" is just a metaphor to indicate how desperate Virgin was on getting new routes, and the link validates that.

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 37):
While Pomnath's rant on Virgin's "old" A340s may be absurd (I still have to witness an "old" A340), your rant in response is both offensive and racist.

 checkmark 
 
TinkerBelle
Posts: 1436
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2005 7:46 am

RE: Why Always The Old Buses To DEL

Tue Nov 08, 2005 9:51 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 37):
While Pomnath's rant on Virgin's "old" A340s may be absurd (I still have to witness an "old" A340), your rant in response is both offensive and racist.

You should read up on Pomnath's thread "Virgin Atlantc, Flight Cancelled, What To Do?" to realize who is a racist here. I think calling someone a racist is a pretty strong remark just because they indicated that there are reasons why airlines send shabby aircraft to BOM.

Quoting Blrsea (Reply 38):
"got to their knees" is just a metaphor to indicate how desperate Virgin was on getting new routes, and the link validates that.

It may be a metaphor in your mind but 'getting to your knees' is pretty strong word to indicate desperation. One could be desperate but not begging at the same time.
If you are going through hell, keep going.
 
Kahala777
Posts: 1513
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 7:28 am

RE: Why Always The Old Buses To DEL

Tue Nov 08, 2005 11:10 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 37):
Not any more.
Check your own so-called facts.
The reality is that First and Business Class cabins out of the high yield markets of Bombay and Delhi go full.

Not with Bombay and Delhi originating passengers. The bulk of full fare paying passengers ex Virgin, are from what has been heard, of American and European origin. Perhaps they are Indian living in London, or Indian living in Los Angeles. The people filling the premium fare paying seats are not originating in India. The demand is stronger to than from.


Quoting Jaysit (Reply 37):
Why should the Indian passenger be thankful for Virgin's entry into the market, especially since Virgin was tripping all over itself to enter the Indian market?

Virgin Atlantic does not fly to any other third World country. India, is the only third World nation that Virgin flys to. Virgin Nigeria, not fully owned by Virgin does not count. I am sure you are the type to try and incite something from that. Face a few facts. Airlines have struggled with India over the years. It has yet to be seen how grand and great Continental and American are going to be on the Indian market. As of late Northwest Airlines yanked the plug on AMS-BLR not do to its bankruptcy, but to sluggish initial bookings and yet to be proven demand for the market.

Furthermore, Virgin Atlantic, has never and will never "trip" over itself to get into or out of a market. Virgin Atlantic, is a completely different airline that is helmed by a wonderful man, with a vision of aviation for tomorrow. Branson is not going to put his name on anything shabby, or anything substandard. The insinuation that Virgin is "picking on" India is nothing more than a childish rant and rave.

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 37):
While Pomnath's rant on Virgin's "old" A340s may be absurd (I still have to witness an "old" A340), your rant in response is both offensive and racist.

It was not racist by any means. Your friend, and infamous thread flamer, Pomnath - Incited more than one racist occurance over the past few threads he has attempted to hijack.

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 37):
LGW to Barbados doesn't command the same fares up front that, say, LHR-JFK does.

London to Bombay does not command near the same fare that London to New York does either. London to New York, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Washington, and Chicago are some of the most expensive tickets in the World for both Business Class and First Class.

BRITISH AIRWAYS

INDIA

London to Bangalore
First Class $9549.00

London to Bombay
First Class $9657.00

London to Calcutta
First Class $9657.00

London to Delhi
First Class $9657.00


NORTH AMERICA

London to Chicago
First Class $13816.00

London to Los Angeles
First Class $14121.00

London to New York
First Class $11787.00

Source : http://www.expedia.com
Dates : 10 Dec - 13 Dec

Compare the First Class and see India is miles below the cost of North America sectors for British Airways ex London. So your fight saying India is making so much money, and the Indians need to be wooed... Is a pile of dung!


The numbers for "immigrant" traffic on London to India flights are amazing. The numbers for "business" traffic on London to India flights is standard, nothing more, nothing less than most other long-haul flights.

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 37):
LHR-BOM in Business Class does, especially since most tend to be unrestricted fares, in contrast to LGW-Barbados which tend to be restricted J class fares.

Please see the above post.

KAHALA777

[Edited 2005-11-08 03:16:55]
 
sshank
Posts: 294
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2004 2:58 am

RE: Why Always The Old Buses To DEL

Tue Nov 08, 2005 1:48 pm

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 23):
Something that you also may want to think about. A few years back when I was a Manager for the call center of an international consolidater here in the United States, the most requested seats to India were always, always on Singapore Airlines, Cathay Pacific, and British Airways. As of recent I talked to a friend at the company and they stated yet again that Singapore, Cathay, and British were still the most requested. I asked about Virgin Atlantic, and he said that Virgin has many agreements with places such as STA Travel to offer the lowest fares in the market. When you have an airline offering a bulk number of seats to a company such as STA, you know the yields are not gleaming by any means.

Not sure where you are going with this - all this tells me is that Indian folk would rather give their money to a top tier airline than some pretender like Virgin.

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 40):
Virgin Atlantic, is a completely different airline that is helmed by a wonderful man, with a vision of aviation for tomorrow.

Do you have a thing for Branson?

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 23):
Just be happy than Virgin Atlantic made a decision to fly to India. With passengers ranting and raving like Pomnath and his fellow countrymen, I can hardly see Virgin wanting to risk anything else on India.

Wow - I had not looked at things from that perspective! Now I get it - VS is doing India a favor by flying there. Thanks for that tip Kalhala.

While Pomnath's posts rarely make much sense - your response could be could be considered racist if it weren't so laughable.

[Edited 2005-11-08 05:51:05]
 
blrsea
Posts: 1434
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 2:22 am

RE: Why Always The Old Buses To DEL

Tue Nov 08, 2005 2:40 pm

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 40):
Virgin Atlantic does not fly to any other third World country. India, is the only third World nation that Virgin flys to.

Virgin flies to India because it can make good money there, not out of pity or charity. No airline will fly to any location till they are convinced it can make money. Look at my earlier response which said that BA was getting good profit margins from Indian market. The statement does show your contempt for third world country though.

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 40):
So your fight saying India is making so much money, and the Indians need to be wooed... Is a pile of dung!

Yup, thats the reason Branson was fighting for greater share of flights to India.  sarcastic 
 
Lufthansa
Posts: 2303
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 6:04 am

RE: Why Always The Old Buses To DEL

Tue Nov 08, 2005 2:45 pm

Quoting Sshank (Reply 41):
While Pomnath's posts rarely make much sense - your response could be could be considered racist if it weren't so laughable

Kahala777's post was not racist.... not at any point. He was simply stating a commercial reality, and some of you lot don't like to face the fact that people from certain destinations are not nearly as important as their pompus asses would like to think.... its a simple commercial reality folks... and by the way, the airlines are obviously in agreement.... Or we would have seen KLM 777s fly in there quick smart as their first destination, and not NWA DC-10s.

And why is it a commericial reality? Simple... they (the market) isn't willing to support the price structure that others are... See Kahala777's first class analysis. That isn't racist...its just business. Isn't it funny how people like to play the race card when they have absolutely no other arguement? Oh yes...Virgin are racist bastereds..and so am I for saying that it is perfectly okay to send an A340 to mumbai, that has the old business class when JFK get 747s with flatbeds. Anyway it will get them eventually... its just not first priority because other markets yield more. end of story.
 
Pomnath
Posts: 384
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2005 6:55 am

RE: Why Always The Old Buses To DEL

Tue Nov 08, 2005 3:47 pm

Nobody is saying VS can not or should not send old rattle-traps from Nigeria to their London - India route. Good for them if they can get away with it.

But then, why shy away from admitting it? And why try to disable me from saying it? Why try to pretend that a Virgin Nigeria aircraft is something else?

The rest is so much hot air. Denying racism always comes very easy to people who, for example, would support the KKK or the Nazis.

This thread is about why some airlines always send their old buses to India. Well, the answer is that the could get away with it.

Not anymore, though. Take a look at what SQ, CX, 9W, BA, EK and now even the Americans are flying into India. The modernity of the aircraft will make a difference.

As for higher fares on the Europe - USA routes, well, if there is a cartel, what can anybody do about it?

+++

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 40):
I still have to witness an "old" A340

Please get a close look at G-VBUS, made in 1993, it also has ashtrays.

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 40):
The bulk of full fare paying passengers ex Virgin, are from what has been heard, of American and European origin. Perhaps they are Indian living in London, or Indian living in Los Angeles. The people filling the premium fare paying seats are not originating in India

That is not true anymore, as any Sales person from any of the European airlines operating to India will tell you. Say what you want about "immigrants", since you obviously don't hold them in great esteem (when, by the way, did your fore fathers settle down wherever??), but fact of the matter is that it is business from India that now drives the flights in and out of India.

Quoting TinkerBelle (Reply 39):
Quoting Blrsea (Reply 38):
"got to their knees" is just a metaphor to indicate how desperate Virgin was on getting new routes, and the link validates that.

It may be a metaphor in your mind but 'getting to your knees' is pretty strong word to indicate desperation. One could be desperate but not begging at the same time.

Well, the airline is still on its knees in India for more frequency. However, with the increase in flights by AI and 9W, and the targetted focus on India by BA, VS may not really need them anymore.

Quoting AngelAirways (Reply 35):
a bmi engineer was recently b*tching that the mumbai passengers are "ruining" the interiors of their A330s, jealous that BA and VS have "dedicated" aircraft for trashing on Indian routes.

It would be interesting to know more about which particular BMI engineer was b*tching about this, considering the simple fact that Jet Airways have dedicated aircraft on the same route, and have no such problems. And BA does not have 'dedicated" aircraft on Indian routes.

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 28):
There is no situation in Beirut,



Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 29):
Beirut and Lebanon are not going through a nationwide riot

I agree, but then the gent with the Beirut = Paris signature is not aware of what is ahppening in Paris right now.
Sea to Sky, Racists should Die!!
 
sshank
Posts: 294
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2004 2:58 am

RE: Why Always The Old Buses To DEL

Tue Nov 08, 2005 4:03 pm

Lufthansa, I just went back and re-read everything Kahala has written on this thread looking for "first class analysis". You win. Your ability to spot first class analysis greatly exceeds mine, because all I see is incoherent drivel.

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 43):
And why is it a commericial reality? Simple... they (the market) isn't willing to support the price structure that others are... See Kahala777's first class analysis. That isn't racist...its just business. Isn't it funny how people like to play the race card when they have absolutely no other arguement? Oh yes...Virgin are racist bastereds..and so am I for saying that it is perfectly okay to send an A340 to mumbai, that has the old business class when JFK get 747s with flatbeds. Anyway it will get them eventually... its just not first priority because other markets yield more. end of story.
 
User avatar
HAWK21M
Posts: 29867
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

RE: Why Always The Old Buses To DEL

Tue Nov 08, 2005 4:46 pm

Quoting TPASXM787 (Reply 32):
Are you insinuating that an 8-year old A340 is unsafe? Wow...

Big liability there...are you kidding?

If you want a rattletrap/rustbucket go fly a 727. That's a rattletrap

Age of an aircraft is not a problem.Mx is.If Mx well a 20yr old aircraft can be more safer than a 4yr old one.

Quoting Tinkerbelle (Reply 33):
The link does not suggest VS 'got to their knees' and pleaded as Pomnath suggests



Quoting AngelAirways (Reply 35):
i can assure you that uk airlines' treatment of their indian and nigerian passengers is not quite the same as their treatment of british and american passengers

I wonder why  Smile

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
cricket
Posts: 2068
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2005 8:23 pm

RE: Why Always The Old Buses To DEL

Tue Nov 08, 2005 5:49 pm

My, my. And I had a post deleted because I called white people by the term we usually call them out here. Well, some people just don't get that India is one of the world's largest economies, and while the elephants and the slums might be what you see, it is a very rich country, its just that wealth inequality in India is worse than in the US. And whats this about non-Indians filling up flights ex-India? I wonder why there is huge a huge demand for Indian airhostesses then?
Some people, I tell you!
A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
 
User avatar
HAWK21M
Posts: 29867
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

RE: Why Always The Old Buses To DEL

Tue Nov 08, 2005 6:05 pm

Quoting Cricket (Reply 47):
Well, some people just don't get that India is one of the world's largest economies, and while the elephants and the slums might be what you see,

Its called Illinformed.Most probably think Indians Are Snake rope charmers & sing on the streets of Mumbai  biggrin 
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
airxliban
Posts: 4285
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 12:14 pm

RE: Why Always The Old Buses To DEL

Tue Nov 08, 2005 6:23 pm

Quoting Pomnath (Reply 44):
But then, why shy away from admitting it? And why try to disable me from saying it? Why try to pretend that a Virgin Nigeria aircraft is something else?

I don't know, have you tried asking Virgin? I doubt they'd admit it because it would be bad PR. They can only get away with it so long as people don't put up a stink about it.

Quoting Pomnath (Reply 44):
This thread is about why some airlines always send their old buses to India. Well, the answer is that the could get away with it.

Now that we have our answer I elect that we stop talking about it.

Quoting Pomnath (Reply 44):
I agree, but then the gent with the Beirut = Paris signature is not aware of what is ahppening in Paris right now.

I don't think you get what I mean and anyway I've had that signature for as long as the signature feature has been around on a.net (a year or so)?
PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.

Who is online