hardiwv
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TAM Full Codeshare With AA On JFK-GRU-GIG

Tue Nov 08, 2005 8:01 am

TAM announced that it has finished negotiations with AA and its newest international flight JFK-GRU-GIG A330, which will start this week, will operate in full codeshare with AA.

It also means AA is one step closer to OW.

My question: why is TAM using VS lounge in JFK and not AA lounge?

Rgs,
 
hardiwv
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RE: TAM Full Codeshare With AA On JFK-GRU-GIG

Tue Nov 08, 2005 8:03 am

Quoting Hardiwv (Thread starter):
It also means AA is one step closer to OW.

Of course, I mean TAM is one step closer to OW...
 
commavia
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RE: TAM Full Codeshare With AA On JFK-GRU-GIG

Tue Nov 08, 2005 8:15 am

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 1):
TAM is one step closer to OW

I surely hope so. JJ would be the perfect addition to oneworld. The recent inklings that JJ requested LHR slots, and that they have finally gotten a deal squared away with AA over JFK-GRU gives me definite hopes!

Quoting Hardiwv (Thread starter):
My question: why is TAM using VS lounge in JFK and not AA lounge?

TAM probably does not want to put its high-yielding customers on a brand new route to a brand new city into the sh*t box that is AA's international terminal at JFK. This will all, of course, be rectified when AA's international ops move over to the new AA terminal in 2007, but until then, I doubt any airline is really going to be excited to add service to that horrendous facility. AY just stays because they have a great deal going with AA and are not in as much of a hurry to move, as they face no competition on the JFK-HEL route.
 
miaskies
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RE: TAM Full Codeshare With AA On JFK-GRU-GIG

Tue Nov 08, 2005 9:03 am

Quoting Commavia (Reply 2):
TAM probably does not want to put its high-yielding customers on a brand new route to a brand new city into the sh*t box that is AA's international terminal at JFK. This will all, of course, be rectified when AA's international ops move over to the new AA terminal in 2007, but until then, I doubt any airline is really going to be excited to add service to that horrendous facility. AY just stays because they have a great deal going with AA and are not in as much of a hurry to move, as they face no competition on the JFK-HEL route

UM... what about the brand new terminal that AA just opened a couple months ago @ JFK, I flew in there on 762 from MIA and the Terminal is quite nice! very modern and spacious...Yea they still have flights leaving from the old terminal but the new terminal is quite nice... not a "sh*t box" at all!
Nothing better than making love at 35K Feet!
 
commavia
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RE: TAM Full Codeshare With AA On JFK-GRU-GIG

Tue Nov 08, 2005 9:05 am

Quoting MIASkies (Reply 3):
not a "sh*t box" at all!

I was referring to the old terminal, Terminal 8, which is where all of AA's international departures and arrivals still are (and will be for a while). If JJ were to use AA's facilities, they would be in Terminal 8, which definitely is a sh*t box (I feel most AA flyers would agree me on that). Yes, the new terminal is beautiful, and well-designed, but it will not be handling international flights for months or years.
 
willyj
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RE: TAM Full Codeshare With AA On JFK-GRU-GIG

Tue Nov 08, 2005 12:16 pm

Quoting Commavia (Reply 4):
I was referring to the old terminal, Terminal 8, which is where all of AA's international departures and arrivals still are (and will be for a while).

I believe all of their int'l arrivals are in Terminal 8 because the customs area in the new terminal hasn't opened yet - or even been built yet? However, not all international departures are from T8. I know that most days AA's flight to NRT departs from the new Terminal 9.

JJ could have had passengers arrive into T8 and then tow the plane to a gate at T9 for departing passengers, but I guess they felt that flying into terminal 4 was a better option.

Is BA's Terminal 7 full at the times JJ would need to use it? I would have thought that would be the most likely place for them to start operations seeing as OW carriers BA, QF, CX, and IB all operate their intercontinental flights from there.

I think I'm jumping the gun a bit though, JJ isn't even in OW yet...
 
commavia
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RE: TAM Full Codeshare With AA On JFK-GRU-GIG

Tue Nov 08, 2005 12:22 pm

Quoting Willyj (Reply 5):
However, not all international departures are from T8. I know that most days AA's flight to NRT departs from the new Terminal 9.


The last two days, AA167 JFK-NRT has departed from Terminal 8.

Quoting Willyj (Reply 5):
Is BA's Terminal 7 full at the times JJ would need to use it?

Arriving before 0600 in the morning would be no problem, as BA's T7 is pretty much empty around that time (all that leaves in the morning is BA178, the 0900 departure to LHR). However, leaving T7 at 1830 at night would be a major problem, as this is right in the peak of BA's evening LHR/MAN schedule.

[Edited 2005-11-08 04:22:55]
 
Brasuca
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RE: TAM Full Codeshare With AA On JFK-GRU-GIG

Tue Nov 08, 2005 1:31 pm

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 1):
TAM is one step closer to OW...

In addition, JJ is farther from SkyTeam, as time passes by they neglect their partnership with AF.

And now that JAL has just been announced as new member of OW, we can count JL-JJ agreement on this analysis.
Varig, Varig, Varig
 
LipeGIG
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RE: TAM Full Codeshare With AA On JFK-GRU-GIG

Wed Nov 09, 2005 7:42 am

Something interesting is that on sundays, the flight departs from JFK on the morning and the VS lounge is closed (opens in the afternoon). Tam will not offer a lounge facility for their business and First class customers on sundays.
On the days AA runs the flight, i believe their customers could use AA Admirals Club. This is a little confused, i imagine a FF customer, some days check in is on T4, others on T7.

TAM keep as one of the few airlines that does not grant access to lounges to their top customers (only if they fly C or F classes).

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
JJMNGR
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RE: TAM Full Codeshare With AA On JFK-GRU-GIG

Wed Nov 09, 2005 7:54 am

TAM A332´s are going to operate at Terminal 04. By the way an important comment. The arrangements of the code-share with AA were done, allowing TAM to sell also AA flights, but the oposite is not true. AA will not sell pax on TAM´s flight.
Expectations is to TAM operate daily A332 from April next year, when PT-MVA still leased to Ethyhad will return to own TAM´s operations.

Cheers,
 
Brasuca
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RE: TAM Full Codeshare With AA On JFK-GRU-GIG

Wed Nov 09, 2005 8:08 am

Any info about IFE of PT-MVA?
Varig, Varig, Varig
 
commavia
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RE: TAM Full Codeshare With AA On JFK-GRU-GIG

Wed Nov 09, 2005 9:09 am

Quoting JJMNGR (Reply 9):
TAM A332´s are going to operate at Terminal 04. By the way an important comment. The arrangements of the code-share with AA were done, allowing TAM to sell also AA flights, but the oposite is not true. AA will not sell pax on TAM´s flight.

So it will be like the existing arrangement on MIA-GRU-MIA daylight flights? The AA code will not be carried on the JJ flight, but JJ will continue to place its code on the AA flight JFK-GRU-JFK?
 
LipeGIG
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RE: TAM Full Codeshare With AA On JFK-GRU-GIG

Wed Nov 09, 2005 11:07 am

Quoting Brasuca (Reply 10):
Any info about IFE of PT-MVA?

Yes, PT-MVA shows IFE on all the seats, but without AVOD resource.

Quoting Commavia (Reply 11):
So it will be like the existing arrangement on MIA-GRU-MIA daylight flights?

Commavia, the AA and JJ dailylight GRU-MIA-GRU are not code-shared. They keep the code-share only for the night flights between GRU/GIG and MIA.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
willyj
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RE: TAM Full Codeshare With AA On JFK-GRU-GIG

Wed Nov 09, 2005 12:32 pm

Quoting Commavia (Reply 6):
Arriving before 0600 in the morning would be no problem, as BA's T7 is pretty much empty around that time (all that leaves in the morning is BA178, the 0900 departure to LHR).

America west operates flights from BA's side of T7 in the morning, and NH has a flight to NRT at about 11am if I remember correctly. Regardless, aren't JJ hoping to operate the JFK-GRU flight in the evening most days? I could be wrong about this, as I think I remember that they are operating at least one daytime flight per week - sunday if lipegig is correct. What time in the evening are they hoping to leave. T7 is pretty packed from 6;30pm until 8 or 9pm. Would they be later than 9pm?
 
jog
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RE: TAM Full Codeshare With AA On JFK-GRU-GIG

Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Quoting Willyj (Reply 13):
Would they be later than 9pm?

No, actually they will will be leaving already at 6:00pm Mon, Wed,Fri (arriving 6.30am in GRU) and at 7:30am on Sundays (arriving at 8pm at GRU).

Cheers
 
hardiwv
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RE: TAM Full Codeshare With AA On JFK-GRU-GIG

Wed Nov 09, 2005 7:40 pm

Quoting JJMNGR (Reply 9):
The arrangements of the code-share with AA were done, allowing TAM to sell also AA flights, but the oposite is not true. AA will not sell pax on TAM´s flight.

Why this arrangement? Which airline has more advantage under this arrangement, TAM or AA?

Quoting Jog (Reply 14):
No, actually they will will be leaving already at 6:00pm Mon, Wed,Fri (arriving 6.30am in GRU) and at 7:30am on Sundays (arriving at 8pm at GRU).

As mentioned above, TAM flights will go daily and all red-eye as of April/06.

Rgs,
 
JJMNGR
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RE: TAM Full Codeshare With AA On JFK-GRU-GIG

Wed Nov 09, 2005 10:49 pm

Think it is better to TAM as it can go to the amrket and sell a daily flight iso 4 x /week.
 
hardiwv
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RE: TAM Full Codeshare With AA On JFK-GRU-GIG

Thu Nov 10, 2005 7:26 am

Quoting JJMNGR (Reply 9):
The arrangements of the code-share with AA were done, allowing TAM to sell also AA flights, but the oposite is not true

So why did AA agree on the arrangement? What is AA getting out of it if it cannot sell JJ tickets!?

I dont think your information proceeds. A codeshare means AA also putting its code on JJ flight and therefore selling tickets on it.

Rgs,
 
PPVRA
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RE: TAM Full Codeshare With AA On JFK-GRU-GIG

Thu Nov 10, 2005 7:36 am

Maybe JJ is relying solely on O&D from NYC (AA said no or whatever reason), meaning no codeshare for connections out of JFK, but AA gets connections out of GRU with JJ as part of the agreement?

Wild speculation.....

Cheers
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
LipeGIG
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RE: TAM Full Codeshare With AA On JFK-GRU-GIG

Thu Nov 10, 2005 8:13 am

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 17):
So why did AA agree on the arrangement? What is AA getting out of it if it cannot sell JJ tickets!?

Hardi, nowadays the only condition in Brazil to buy AA code-shared JJ tickets is payment at sight (effective nov. 1st). It's a very good deal to AA take money at sight. Also AA can show its product to JJ customers.
AA probably has no interest in expose their customers (specially Business Class) to TAM A332 with lie-seats.

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 18):
Maybe JJ is relying solely on O&D from NYC (AA said no or whatever reason), meaning no codeshare for connections out of JFK, but AA gets connections out of GRU with JJ as part of the agreement?

This is part of the code-share, TAM can connect thru DFW and MIA , and AA could connect thru GRU and GIG. JFK is really a strong O&D market.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
MAH4546
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RE: TAM Full Codeshare With AA On JFK-GRU-GIG

Thu Nov 10, 2005 8:15 am

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 17):
Quoting JJMNGR (Reply 9):
The arrangements of the code-share with AA were done, allowing TAM to sell also AA flights, but the oposite is not true

So why did AA agree on the arrangement? What is AA getting out of it if it cannot sell JJ tickets!?

It's a good thing for AA. Passengers typically perfer TAM's service and comfort, so AA won't have to worry about passengers booking the TAM service with the AA* code. This is why AA/JJ don't codeshare on the daylight MIA-(SSA)-GRU flights.
a.
 
Brasuca
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RE: TAM Full Codeshare With AA On JFK-GRU-GIG

Thu Nov 10, 2005 8:34 am

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 18):
Maybe JJ is relying solely on O&D from NYC (AA said no or whatever reason), meaning no codeshare for connections out of JFK, but AA gets connections out of GRU with JJ as part of the agreement?

Wild speculation.....

Good remark!!!

AA code-shares the following JJ routes in domestic:

FOR-SSA-GRU
LDB-CWB-GRU
CGB-CGR-GRU
FLN-CWB-GRU
SSA-GRU
FOR-GRU
VIX-GRU
CNF-GRU
IGU-GRU
REC-GRU
NAT-GRU
--------
CNF-GIG
BSB-GIG

=======================
And TAM code-shares these routes with AA in domestic:

MIA-IAD
MIA-BOS
MIA-PHL
MIA-DTW
MIA-ATL
MIA-IAH
MIA-DEN
MIA-LAX

DFW-ORD
DFW-SFO
DFW-DEN
DFW-LAX

So... You may be correct: they're relying on O&D.
DFW is served by code-share only (currently same status of JFK) and has onwards code-shared flights, but not from JFK.
Varig, Varig, Varig
 
LipeGIG
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RE: TAM Full Codeshare With AA On JFK-GRU-GIG

Thu Nov 10, 2005 8:45 am

Quoting Brasuca (Reply 21):
And TAM code-shares these routes with AA in domestic:

In fact TAM code-shares 29 cities with AA:
Seattle, Portland, Salt Lake City, Denver, San Francisco, Las Vegas, San Jose, Los Angeles, Phoenix, San Diego, Houston, New Orleans, Tampa, Orlando, Jacksonville, Nashville, Atlanta, Indianapolis, Saint Louis, Chicago, Minneapolis, Detroit, Cleveland, Washington D.C, Baltimore, Philadelphia, New York and Boston

Source: TAM Magazine November 2005  Smile

Regards
Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
Brasuca
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RE: TAM Full Codeshare With AA On JFK-GRU-GIG

Thu Nov 10, 2005 8:51 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 22):
In fact TAM code-shares 29 cities with AA:

Then they seem to fail in advertisement:


Varig, Varig, Varig
 
incitatus
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RE: TAM Full Codeshare With AA On JFK-GRU-GIG

Thu Nov 10, 2005 10:13 am

Quoting Brasuca (Reply 23):
Then they seem to fail in advertisement:

Apparently they don't even know where Los Angeles is!
Stop pop up ads
 
PPVRA
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RE: TAM Full Codeshare With AA On JFK-GRU-GIG

Thu Nov 10, 2005 10:17 am

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 24):

Apparently they don't even know where Los Angeles is!

LOL! Atlanta, Detroit, Dallas and Boston are way off as well! At least Detroit is in the right state.

Cheers

[Edited 2005-11-10 02:17:49]
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
LipeGIG
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RE: TAM Full Codeshare With AA On JFK-GRU-GIG

Thu Nov 10, 2005 10:55 am

Quoting Brasuca (Reply 23):
Then they seem to fail in advertisement:

In fact they have two different informations, but you can search on the main page for the 29 cities. Probably the initial agreement has been increased to more cities and they forget to update the website.

I will try to take a photo of the route map on TAM's Magazine, it's more complete and shows the 2 hubs, DFW and MIA.

Rgds,
Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
Brasuca
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RE: TAM Full Codeshare With AA On JFK-GRU-GIG

Thu Nov 10, 2005 7:27 pm

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 24):
Apparently they don't even know where Los Angeles is!



Quoting PPVRA (Reply 25):
LOL! Atlanta, Detroit, Dallas and Boston are way off as well! At least Detroit is in the right state.

 rotfl  rotfl 

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 26):
Probably the initial agreement has been increased to more cities and they forget to update the website.

Well, JFK is already shown in the map as a destination served by TAM, so I think it was in fact a map for ""the future"".
Varig, Varig, Varig
 
TBCITDG
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RE: TAM Full Codeshare With AA On JFK-GRU-GIG

Thu Nov 10, 2005 9:18 pm

Wouldn't LA have something to say if JJ where to join the OW alliance?
I am sure that they would be up in arms, should JJ join.
It would be the same predicament that TG and SQ have in Star. TG where non too happy to share the 'Asian' status with any one else!
 
hardiwv
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RE: TAM Full Codeshare With AA On JFK-GRU-GIG

Thu Nov 10, 2005 11:03 pm

Quoting TBCITDG (Reply 28):
It would be the same predicament that TG and SQ have in Star. TG where non too happy to share the 'Asian' status with any one else!

But at the end they had to share the market.

You have to keep into perspective that Brazil is half the market of the region; to a certain extend, it is vital for an alliance to have a partner airline based in GRU.

TAM director stated this week that TAM has definite plans to land in LHR already in 2006. It seems they are also getting closer to BA; and all the chances of TAM joining OW are becoming more evident.

Rgs,
 
Brasuca
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RE: TAM Full Codeshare With AA On JFK-GRU-GIG

Fri Nov 11, 2005 12:32 am

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 29):
TAM director stated this week that TAM has definite plans to land in LHR already in 2006.

Wow.. So, is this really going to be Heathrow? How are they managing to get slots?
BTW, I've read many news regarding GRU-LIM still this year, together MAO-CCS. It still looks like JJ posponed LIM for a long time.
Varig, Varig, Varig
 
hardiwv
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RE: TAM Full Codeshare With AA On JFK-GRU-GIG

Fri Nov 11, 2005 12:45 am

Quoting Brasuca (Reply 30):
Wow.. So, is this really going to be Heathrow? How are they managing to get slots?

Sorry, he said LONDON and not LHR. I dont think TAM will operate out of LGW; they must be playing their cards to get the slots in LHR. TAM, as a premium airline, would only operate out of LHR - this is my opinion. It would be strange to see TAM operating in LGW.

Rgs,
 
JJMNGR
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RE: TAM Full Codeshare With AA On JFK-GRU-GIG

Fri Nov 11, 2005 2:07 am

LIM will start in code-share with TACA in DEC and with own flights in APR/06.
 
hardiwv
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RE: TAM Full Codeshare With AA On JFK-GRU-GIG

Fri Nov 11, 2005 2:43 am

Quoting JJMNGR (Reply 32):
LIM will start in code-share with TACA in DEC and with own flights in APR/06.

Most certainly TAM will use TA codeshare to offer flights from LIM to Andean Countries and Central America through TA hub in LIM, and the same for TA in GRU using TAM nub there for connections in the Brazilian market + deep South America. [GOL already has a partnerhsip with CM].

TACA had plans to operate two daily flights LIM-GRU in 2006 but the JJ codeshare could mean that TAM will operate the additional flight instead.

Rgs,
 
Brasuca
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RE: TAM Full Codeshare With AA On JFK-GRU-GIG

Fri Nov 11, 2005 4:32 am

Quoting JJMNGR (Reply 32):
LIM will start in code-share with TACA in DEC and with own flights in APR/06.

Thanks for details. Will TAM offer onwards code-share from LIM to UIO with TACA?

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 33):
TA in GRU using TAM nub there for connections in the Brazilian market + deep South America.

I'm not sure as to deep South America, because TACA already flies to the only two destinations TAM flies, i.e. SCL and EZE. But it's a good idea really code-sharing domestic in Brazil with TAM.
However, TACA must arrange their schedule of flights, in order to get any flight connection. I hope they improve it.
Varig, Varig, Varig
 
Aisak
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RE: TAM Full Codeshare With AA On JFK-GRU-GIG

Fri Nov 11, 2005 6:00 am

Quoting TBCITDG (Reply 28):
Wouldn't LA have something to say if JJ where to join the OW alliance?
I am sure that they would be up in arms, should JJ join.

Yes yes yes... sure sure sure

And the rest of OW Frequent Flyer members have to cope with the "LAN affiliates Lan Ecuador and Lan Argentina are not members of oneworld."
 
hardiwv
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RE: TAM Full Codeshare With AA On JFK-GRU-GIG

Fri Nov 11, 2005 6:53 am

Quoting Brasuca (Reply 34):
TAM flies, i.e. SCL and EZE. But it's a good idea really code-sharing domestic in Brazil with TAM.

ASU would be an interesting code-shared destination for TA. SCL of course would not even make sense since GRU would make a detour of the route...

Quoting Brasuca (Reply 34):
Will TAM offer onwards code-share from LIM to UIO with TACA?

Not only UIO, TA runs an interesting hub in LIM allowing for connection to many Andean destinations and, most importantly, Central America. LA's second hub is on SJO.

Quoting TBCITDG (Reply 28):
Wouldn't LA have something to say if JJ where to join the OW alliance?
I am sure that they would be up in arms, should JJ join.
It would be the same predicament that TG and SQ have in Star.

So we could also say that CX was not happy with JAL joining OW!

Rgs,
 
Brasuca
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Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 12:09 am

RE: TAM Full Codeshare With AA On JFK-GRU-GIG

Fri Nov 11, 2005 7:53 am

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 36):
ASU would be an interesting code-shared destination for TA. SCL of course would not even make sense since GRU would make a detour of the route...

ASU seems to be better connected via VVI (with PZ), rather than detouring at GRU.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 36):
Not only UIO, TA runs an interesting hub in LIM allowing for connection to many Andean destinations and, most importantly, Central America. LA's second hub is on SJO.

Yet, most of Central American countries will still be better connected with CM, as flying TA would add one stop (SJO), not very interesting fot TAM:

(TACA route map)


Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 36):
So we could also say that CX was not happy with JAL joining OW!

Corret... + Malév and CSA.

TAM could, however, settle a slight advantage over LA, due to GRU's better geographical position, but that's not a big deal, as both IB and BA already fly to GRU and don't harm LA.
In addition, TAM and LA would threathen AR in Oceania-South America market, as today no Brazilian airline code-shares to Oceania and more than half of AR's pax (to AKL/SYD) are Brazilian.

[Edited 2005-11-11 00:01:54]
Varig, Varig, Varig
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 3619
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RE: TAM Full Codeshare With AA On JFK-GRU-GIG

Fri Nov 11, 2005 12:26 pm

American Airlines is operating very few international flights from Terminal 9. For now, it seems Brussels, Aruba, and one other city are going out of 9, with much of it relegated to domestic ops.

I flew to EZE on the nonstop last month and it, along with GRU, ZRH, all the LHR flights, and NRT, went out of 8, which is disgusting, dingy, dirty, old, smelly, poorly ventilated, and just plain awful.

ContinentalEWR