Frontiercpt
Topic Author
Posts: 955
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 9:47 am

FA Seniority Question

Thu Nov 10, 2005 6:46 am

Hey everyone! I was just wondering, if say, twenty FA's graduated from an airline's training program, how do they decide seniority, cuz like, 5 years later, they will all have the same seniority, won't they? How do they make it so that they differ? Like, I don't know if that is clear, but like, if they were all bidding for their schedules, how would the people who are in charge of that, decide who gets what if they all graduated from the training program in the same group? Hope thats clear. Sorry if this is in the wrong forum. Thanks guys!  Big grin
Oliver
 
Aggieflyboi04
Posts: 164
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 2:28 pm

RE: FA Seniority Question

Thu Nov 10, 2005 6:53 am

It depends on the airline, some go by age, last 4 numbers of social securty number and some draw numbers out of a bowl to see what class seniority is.

DJ
 
FlyGuyClt
Posts: 1579
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:23 pm

RE: FA Seniority Question

Thu Nov 10, 2005 6:55 am

When I flew for an airline named Florida Express Airlines back in the dark ages. They did seniority by grade point average. I was the baby in the class and number 3 in seniority. The kicker was on graduation day. The top 3 got lines with no reserve ! Ah, the good old days.

Safe Flying  Smile
Florida Express, Braniff II and ......
 
kevi747
Posts: 991
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2001 5:59 pm

RE: FA Seniority Question

Thu Nov 10, 2005 7:36 am

At AA it went by our birthdays. The oldest person was the most senior and the youngest the most junior.
"Reality has a well-known liberal bias." --Stephen Colbert
 
aa757first
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 11:40 am

RE: FA Seniority Question

Thu Nov 10, 2005 7:39 am

Quoting FlyGuyClt (Reply 2):
When I flew for an airline named Florida Express Airlines back in the dark ages. They did seniority by grade point average. I was the baby in the class and number 3 in seniority. The kicker was on graduation day. The top 3 got lines with no reserve ! Ah, the good old days.

Safe Flying Smile

GPA in high school/college or in the training program? That sounds like the way to do it, if it is judged by the training program.

AAndrew
 
FlyGuyClt
Posts: 1579
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:23 pm

RE: FA Seniority Question

Thu Nov 10, 2005 8:21 am

Quoting Aa757first (Reply 4):
GPA in high school/college or in the training program? That sounds like the way to do it, if it is judged by the training program.

AAndrew

Flight Attendant Training.

Safe Flying  Smile
Florida Express, Braniff II and ......
 
letsgetwet
Posts: 490
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2005 12:08 pm

RE: FA Seniority Question

Thu Nov 10, 2005 9:30 am

When my daughter graduated she was the youngest in her class, so when she got her wings she was inroduced as the most junior FA at CO.(until the next class graduated).
 
ntspelich
Posts: 740
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 2:35 am

RE: FA Seniority Question

Thu Nov 10, 2005 9:41 am

WN goes by time in that department, then if needed time with the company, then if needed age with the oldest having the most seniority.

NTS
United 717 heavy, you're facing the wrong way. Any chance you can powerback to get off of my deice pad?
 
gman3
Posts: 249
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 11:13 am

RE: FA Seniority Question

Thu Nov 10, 2005 9:44 am

At United when I was hired, we were given a random file number. They were six digits and they were all in sequemtial order. They went by the last 4 digits. Out of all the new hires to the company, the lowest was the most senior (2179) and the highest was the most junior (2207). There were a few company transfers in my class and they were placed by their existing file number. One girl had 0214 as her last 4 digits so she was actually the most senior in my class. One unlucky girl had 8966 , so even though she was already an employee for 4 years, she was the most junior in the class. Any compnay transfer kept their company hiring date for benefits and vacation, but received a new inflight date for bidding and jumpseating.
 
Jamake1
Posts: 803
Joined: Mon May 17, 2004 2:30 pm

RE: FA Seniority Question

Thu Nov 10, 2005 2:02 pm

I was first hired at ATA back in the early 1990's and they went by age. I was twenty four years old at the time and was one of the most junior in my class. Then I jumped ship and went over to United and they did it by the last four digits of your social security number. The last four digits of mine started with 9 so I was #58 in seniority out of a class of 60 new hires. I turned 29 during my intial training at United and there were several 19 and 20 year olds who were hence, more senior to me.
United's B747-400. "She's a a cruel lover."
 
Lono
Posts: 1136
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2004 5:47 pm

RE: FA Seniority Question

Thu Nov 10, 2005 3:28 pm

I have worked for 3 "legacies"

all went by social security numbers...
Wally Bird Ruled the Skys!
 
TG992
Posts: 2310
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2001 12:03 pm

RE: FA Seniority Question

Thu Nov 10, 2005 3:32 pm

On a related topic, the seniority system is just hideous. I can't imagine working under it.

At Air NZ, we have a very simple system - "last achieved request". We get to request one trip per month, and our chance of getting it depends on when we last got what we requested. The rest of the roster is assigned by computer, with trips marked as "undesirable" (for instance, AKL-PPT-AKL roundtrip which is nearly 14 hours) shared equally amongst ALL crew - even the 40 year veterans. We are rostered one roster of standby/reserve per year - even the 40 year veterans.

I can't imagine a system that's fairer than that!
-
 
qqflyboy
Posts: 1619
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 1:47 pm

RE: FA Seniority Question

Thu Nov 10, 2005 6:16 pm

It was age at Reno Air, too. It frustrated me because I was a transfer from customer service. It didn't matter, it still went by age. Had they given credit to those who were transfers from within the company, I would have been number 2 as opposed to last. Of course, none of that matters now since I am a little fish in the big silver pond. GPA in class would have been nice, too, I was valedictorian in my class (can you believe they called it that?). It was nice, anyway, I got a cool little MD-80 lapel pin.
The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
 
Pomnath
Posts: 384
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2005 6:55 am

RE: FA Seniority Question

Thu Nov 10, 2005 6:26 pm

Quoting FlyGuyClt (Reply 2):
The top 3 got lines with no reserve

What does this mean, please?
Sea to Sky, Racists should Die!!
 
skytony
Posts: 107
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 1:25 am

RE: FA Seniority Question

Thu Nov 10, 2005 8:28 pm

At Leisure Air seniority was determined by lottery, Rich International Airways by age, and United we did it by last four digits in your Social Security Number.
Lower your expectations! You will always be pleasantly surprised!
 
lehovec
Posts: 259
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 6:21 pm

RE: FA Seniority Question

Thu Nov 10, 2005 9:26 pm

At EZY there is no seniority... you don't chose your own flights. You can ask crewing to put you on certain flight but it is really up to them...
For example... when I changed bases from LGW to STN I aksed to do some LJU flights as I am from LJU and wanted to fly home... in September I had 8 flights to LJU, in October just 1 and in November 1 as well.
If you want to do specific flight you can always ask somebody who is assigned to that flight to swap with you...

When talking about position you work for a day on a/c, it is always up to us crew to decide which position is each of us going to work on. Today I was number 3, yesterday number 2...
 
FlyGuyClt
Posts: 1579
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:23 pm

RE: FA Seniority Question

Thu Nov 10, 2005 10:36 pm

Quoting Pomnath (Reply 13):
Quoting FlyGuyClt (Reply 2):
The top 3 got lines with no reserve

What does this mean, please?

Reserve is when you are on call.

A line is when you know your entire month's flying.

Safe Flying  Smile
Florida Express, Braniff II and ......
 
User avatar
HAWK21M
Posts: 29917
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

RE: FA Seniority Question

Thu Nov 10, 2005 10:54 pm

Isn't it based on Performance.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
FA4B6
Posts: 1078
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 3:00 am

RE: FA Seniority Question

Thu Nov 10, 2005 11:07 pm

Quoting Kevi747 (Reply 3):
At AA it went by our birthdays. The oldest person was the most senior and the youngest the most junior

At B6 it's the same thing.
"Leap! And the net will appear."
 
persotvik
Posts: 265
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 1999 12:38 am

RE: FA Seniority Question

Thu Nov 10, 2005 11:28 pm

Hi 

In my airline, WF, age decides. We were 15 at the initial cabin crew course and the oldest having the most seniority.

Quite fair indeed I believe.

Best rgrds

Per
TRD

From a DH4 flight TRD-CPH. You can see the Swedish coastline down there, passing west of Gothenburg.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Trhgutt/Aircraft%20photos/ResizeofFlybilder060.jpg

[Edited 2005-11-10 15:29:17]

[Edited 2005-11-10 15:30:50]
Just love flying
 
BR715-A1-30
Posts: 6525
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 9:30 am

RE: FA Seniority Question

Fri Nov 11, 2005 12:42 am

Quoting Kevi747 (Reply 3):
At AA it went by our birthdays. The oldest person was the most senior and the youngest the most junior.

That seems like the most logical way to do things.
Puhdiddle
 
vulindlela744
Posts: 432
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 3:03 pm

RE: FA Seniority Question

Fri Nov 11, 2005 1:07 am

At Air Tran we pick numbers out of a cookie tin. It seems like an easy and fair way to do it. I was in the middle of my class seniority.
 
Canada Mike
Posts: 140
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2001 3:13 pm

RE: FA Seniority Question

Fri Nov 11, 2005 3:33 am

In my initial traning, seniority was assigned by overall average in the course. However, they then split it up into full-timers and part-timers, with, obviously, every full-timer going above all the part-timers. So I was #2 in the class, and wound up somewhere down at the bottom, heh.

Personally, I think this is the best way to do it. It's a great reward for who really works hard and applies themselves to the initial training.
 
gman3
Posts: 249
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 11:13 am

RE: FA Seniority Question

Fri Nov 11, 2005 3:42 am

Quoting BR715-A1-30 (Reply 20):
Quoting Kevi747 (Reply 3):
At AA it went by our birthdays. The oldest person was the most senior and the youngest the most junior.

That seems like the most logical way to do things.


I don't think that is a fair way to do it. It actually is reverse age discrimination. Why should someone older to you be more senior to you? The fairest way was the random number assigning. Then when you place them in order you get your seniority list.
 
SongStar
Posts: 131
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2005 1:32 pm

RE: FA Seniority Question

Fri Nov 11, 2005 3:53 am

At Delta it was company transfer date of hire first then everyone else in the class had a fist fight to decide..hehe  Smile just kidding actually after the company transfers it was by birthdate...I fell in the middle of my training class at 27 yrs old..  Smile ( almost 9 years ago...)


ss
 
aa757first
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 11:40 am

RE: FA Seniority Question

Fri Nov 11, 2005 8:39 am

Quoting TG992 (Reply 11):
The rest of the roster is assigned by computer, with trips marked as "undesirable" (for instance, AKL-PPT-AKL roundtrip which is nearly 14 hours)

Is that a turn or something? I thought a long trip like that would be desirable.

Quoting TG992 (Reply 11):


I can't imagine a system that's fairer than that!

Fair? Maybe. Nice? Probably not. I would hate to be flying short 737 routes when at most airlines I would be flying long 747 overnights.

Quoting QQflyboy (Reply 12):
I was valedictorian in my class (can you believe they called it that?)

I can't. I always thought it was a bit of a joke when the "valedictorian" gave a speech at graduation.

Quoting Pomnath (Reply 13):

What does this mean, please?

A line is a monthly schedule, as FlyGuyClt explained. However, he didn't explain what makes a line more desirable. A good line usually has a lot of long haul flying. For example, in the United States, your most senior flight attendants can usually be seen flying something like ORD to NRT or LAX to LHR. This way, they only fly have to fly maybe six roundtrips a month to get the amount of hours they want in that month. Your most junior flight attendants can usually be seen flying short routes like PHL to PIT or LGA to BOS. Also, sometimes it depends on the city. For example, at Continental, EWR to TLV goes junior when compared to flights of a similar length. Also, most flight attendants don't like flying to PBI (a lot of snobs), LAS (a lot of cheap airfares into there, so the passengers are often "trashy" and inexperienced flyers), MCO (a lot of babies and families), etc.

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 17):
Isn't it based on Performance.

No. Virtually nothing in the flight attendant profession is based on performance. Seniority determines pay, vacation time, whether or not you fly as the lead flight attendant, where you fly, where you are based, etc. EOS is performance based however.

Quoting BR715-A1-30 (Reply 20):

That seems like the most logical way to do things.

No, it isn't at all. Why is it more logical to put the 57 year old grumpy flight attendant that barely based flight attendant training on a better line rather than the 23 year old flight attendant that takes pride in her appearance and got a perfect score in training.

AAndrew
 
TG992
Posts: 2310
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2001 12:03 pm

RE: FA Seniority Question

Fri Nov 11, 2005 10:53 am

Quoting Aa757first (Reply 25):
Quoting TG992 (Reply 11):
The rest of the roster is assigned by computer, with trips marked as "undesirable" (for instance, AKL-PPT-AKL roundtrip which is nearly 14 hours)

Is that a turn or something? I thought a long trip like that would be desirable.

Yes, it's a turn. Hideous, non?

Quoting Aa757first (Reply 25):
Quoting TG992 (Reply 11):

I can't imagine a system that's fairer than that!

Fair? Maybe. Nice? Probably not. I would hate to be flying short 737 routes when at most airlines I would be flying long 747 overnights.

The nice thing about it is that you're flying a fair combination of long and short trips from the date you join. You don't have to wait 20 years to fly long, international routes mixed with the occasional shorter trip. You're doing it right away, and continue to do it for your entire career.
-
 
FlyGuyClt
Posts: 1579
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:23 pm

RE: FA Seniority Question

Fri Nov 11, 2005 11:32 am

Quoting Aa757first (Reply 25):
Quoting Pomnath (Reply 13):

What does this mean, please?


A line is a monthly schedule, as FlyGuyClt explained. However, he didn't explain what makes a line more desirable. A good line usually has a lot of long haul flying. For example, in the United States, your most senior flight attendants can usually be seen flying something like ORD to NRT or LAX to LHR. This way, they only fly have to fly maybe six roundtrips a month to get the amount of hours they want in that month. Your most junior flight attendants can usually be seen flying short routes like PHL to PIT or LGA to BOS. Also, sometimes it depends on the city. For example, at Continental, EWR to TLV goes junior when compared to flights of a similar length. Also, most flight attendants don't like flying to PBI (a lot of snobs), LAS (a lot of cheap airfares into there, so the passengers are often "trashy" and inexperienced flyers), MCO (a lot of babies and families

For a 13 to 15 year old I see you are trying to rule your world from a high chair again. Some airlines don't fly international first off. Second. My reply did not bash anyone or group of passengers as you so often do. Third, leave me out of your run on answers. My answer was correct and to the point, with out the insults.

Safe Flying  Smile
Florida Express, Braniff II and ......
 
letsgetwet
Posts: 490
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2005 12:08 pm

RE: FA Seniority Question

Fri Nov 11, 2005 1:18 pm

In the grand scheme of things, gaining seniority over 20-30 classmates doesn't really mean too much when you have thousands in the system.
 
ReidYYZ
Posts: 503
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 4:00 am

RE: FA Seniority Question

Fri Nov 11, 2005 2:02 pm

At TS it is strictly based on your marks over the entire training course. If you are coming from a different division in the company (corporation) then you are slotted at the top, also based on your marks. To me THAT is the most fair. It indeed rewards hard work and yet recognises your past experience within the company. To base it on when you were born, when you got your Soc.Sec. #, or your pick out of a hat seems all a little unfair and counter-productive.

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