md90fan
Posts: 2798
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:15 am

How's SA Doing?

Thu Nov 10, 2005 3:29 pm

How's South African Airways doing? Is SA ever going to order the A318 or any of the new E Jets??  SmileAny new destinations on the horizon? Well I hope all is well, I have a few questions, why does SA and SA Airlink/Express operate such diverse fleets? A32X, 738 and CRJ ,ERJ respectively  Smile.


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P.S. : What happened to the SAA A380 rumor that had something to do with LHR frequencies and gatespace?
http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
 
md90fan
Posts: 2798
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:15 am

RE: How's SA Doing?

Fri Nov 11, 2005 11:27 am

Nobody on a.net knows whats going on with SAA?  Sad
http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
 
speedbird128
Posts: 1562
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2003 2:30 am

RE: How's SA Doing?

Fri Nov 11, 2005 7:22 pm

OK, lets see...

Financially, they are not doing well. Various groups of mismanagement have seen fleet swaps attempted a couple of times.

A few years ago (about 8 or 10) SAA had a fleet that consisted of A300/A320/B732 for Domestic and Regional. They then had B742/B743/B744/B74S for their long-hauls...

Then a change of (mis)management happened, which saw the A300's and A320's retired/disposed of in favour of B738's, with a boosted B732 fleet and an all-boieng fleet. This was all going along merrily and then another sudden major (mis)management change.

This saw the fleet proposal change to all airbus fleet over a 10 (or so) year span. The B732's/B738's were to be disposed of and replaced with a combination of A319's and A320's(again). The B742's and B743's were replaced with a mix of leased A342's from Lufthansa, and newbuild A343E's (cancelled Swiss orders) & A346's... The fleet change went ahead with the B732's being replaced with A319's (now complete). The B742/3/S's are gone, replaced with the abovementioned 340's.

Then the money troubles really hounded SAA, so they had to cancel the A320 order and keep the B738's (which were only due to go in 2010 anyway).

So, today, the SAA fleet consists of:
2x B732 Cargo (ZS-SID & ZS-SIF, although I don't know if these are still operational...)
11x A319 (ZS-SFD thru ZS-SFN)
6x A342 (ZS-SLA thru ZS-SLF)
6x A343E (ZS-SXA thru ZS-SXF, although SXD/SXE/SXF on lease to Jet Aiways)
9x A346 (ZS-SNA thru ZS-SNI)
20x B738 (ZS-SJA thru ZS-SJU, with SJL&SJP possibly out on lease)
8xB744 (ZS-SAV thru ZS-SAZ; ZS-SAK; ZS-SBK; ZS-SBS)

There are a couple of 747 Classics still kicking around (but none in operational capacity I think). When I was last at JNB there was B743 SAJ still lying there somewhere, with 2 SP's SPC/SPF. I believe that SPC will be put on display at Rand Airport FAGM alongside the B742 already there...

SA Express and SA airlink are not entirely part of SAA, but rather branded subsidiaries (or the like). EXY operate a mix of CRJ2/DH8C; while LNK operate JS41/E135/F28's...

I recall that LNK (or EXY?) were to be removed from the SAA 'branding' if want to put it that way, but the plan has been delayed a little.

As far as the A380's go, unless SAA's finances make a change for the positive, it's unlikely (just my opinion...).

I hope this helps you... Cheers

[Edited for maths mistakes  ]

[Edited 2005-11-11 11:24:23]

[Edited 2005-11-11 11:25:02]
A306, A313, A319, A320, A321, A332, A343, A345, A346 A388, AC90, B06, B722, B732, B733, B735, B738, B744, B762, B772, B7
 
SA7700
Posts: 2940
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2003 9:38 pm

RE: How's SA Doing?

Fri Nov 11, 2005 8:59 pm

Quoting Speedbird128 (Reply 2):
SA Express and SA airlink are not entirely part of SAA, but rather branded subsidiaries (or the like). EXY operate a mix of CRJ2/DH8C; while LNK operate JS41/E135/F28's...

SA Express has recently taken over some SA mainline coastal routes. In addition to the CRJ200-BER's and DH8's, they also operate DC9's and (IIRC) some of SA's recently retired B732's, which SA sold to and then leased from Safair during the infamous "Coleman Andrews era".
As Speedbird128 correctly pointed out, neither South African Express Airways nor South African Airlink are subsidiaries of SA. In fact, South African Express Airways cabin crew is very proud of the fact that they are not part of SA and are very quick to explain to uninformed passengers that they are not part of SA.

As far as Management goes, the airline is not doing well under the current CEO Khaya Ngqula. Key personnel like Mr Kyrl Acton, Chief Operating Officer, left and Mr. Ngqula's incompetence is starting to show. He has no airline management experience - a quick recipe for possible disaster, especially when highly skilled SA personnel are starting to leave.


Rgds

SA7700
When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
 
speedbird128
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Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2003 2:30 am

RE: How's SA Doing?

Fri Nov 11, 2005 9:51 pm

Quoting SA7700 (Reply 3):
SA Express has recently taken over some SA mainline coastal routes

Prior to my leaving SA a while back, they attempted this with poor success. SAA withdrew from the CPT-PLZ-DBN routing and they split the flights between EXY and LNK. It lasted only a few months until they put the 732's back on the route.
A306, A313, A319, A320, A321, A332, A343, A345, A346 A388, AC90, B06, B722, B732, B733, B735, B738, B744, B762, B772, B7
 
SA7700
Posts: 2940
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2003 9:38 pm

RE: How's SA Doing?

Fri Nov 11, 2005 11:26 pm

Quoting Speedbird128 (Reply 4):
SAA withdrew from the CPT-PLZ-DBN routing and they split the flights between EXY and LNK. It lasted only a few months until they put the 732's back on the route.

CPT-PLZ-DUR are operated by South African Express DC9's, while the JNB-GRJ-JNB route is operated by South African Express B732's.  Smile


Rgds

SA7700
When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
 
speedbird128
Posts: 1562
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2003 2:30 am

RE: How's SA Doing?

Sat Nov 12, 2005 2:28 am

Aaah OK,

The DC-9 is a better suited for that route than a 30-seater. They had too many aircraft on that route for RJ's... That was why they eventually switched back to fluffies...

I never saw a EXY DC9... I will be home in 6 weeks - time to visit Port Elizabeth International again...  vomit  Nothing but 737's and now the DC'9...

Fortunately in Abu Dhabi I get variety in the diet...
A306, A313, A319, A320, A321, A332, A343, A345, A346 A388, AC90, B06, B722, B732, B733, B735, B738, B744, B762, B772, B7
 
JAM747
Posts: 524
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 12:17 am

RE: How's SA Doing?

Sat Nov 12, 2005 3:15 am

Did SA ever have a non stop JFK to JNB flights? My friend just went to South Africa and it was a long flight as it stoped in Senegal I think. The 747-400 or A340 should have the range if SA chose to it non stop , right?
 
SA006
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RE: How's SA Doing?

Sat Nov 12, 2005 3:38 am

I believe the A340 cannot make JNB-JFK non-stop.

The stopover for the JFK flights is Dakar , Senegal. The stopover for JNB-ATL flights is SID and the stop for JNB-IAD flights is ACC (Accra).

-SA006
Proudly South African
 
speedbird128
Posts: 1562
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2003 2:30 am

RE: How's SA Doing?

Sat Nov 12, 2005 5:31 am

Quoting SA006 (Reply 8):
I believe the A340 cannot make JNB-JFK non-stop.

Not with the amount of cargo they carry with the A340... Being the only USA-RSA 'direct' operator, I guess that route is lucrative for the boxes...
A306, A313, A319, A320, A321, A332, A343, A345, A346 A388, AC90, B06, B722, B732, B733, B735, B738, B744, B762, B772, B7
 
SA7700
Posts: 2940
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2003 9:38 pm

RE: How's SA Doing?

Sat Nov 12, 2005 5:34 am

Quoting JAM747 (Reply 7):
Did SA ever have a non stop JFK to JNB flights? My friend just went to South Africa and it was a long flight as it stoped in Senegal I think. The 747-400 or A340 should have the range if SA chose to it non stop , right?

They most certainly can fly JFK-JNB non-stop. In the past JFK-JNB was almost exclusively non-stop. Personally, I flew non-stop JFK-JNB at least twice, with the A343E and B744. When the JNB-JFK-JNB route was changed to fly via DKR instead of SID, SA also obtained rights to pick-up and drop off pax in DKR, thus making the flights one-stop both ways. They left SID pax for the JNB-ATL-JNB flights, also having rights to pick-up and drop-off pax in SID.

The last time I flew JNB-JFK-JNB, over Easter weekend, a great deal of pax got off in DKR when we came in from JFK. They must be making some good money in this way. The stop in DKR itself is not that bad, only an hour and you are on your way again.

SA is also trying to obtain rights for the JNB-ACC-IAD route, allowing them to pick-up and drop-off pax in ACC and carry them on the ACC-IAD-ACC route. However, Ghana is not too keen and at this stage, SA can only carry pax from JNB-ACC and pick-up pax in ACC again on the way back to JNB.

Quoting SA006 (Reply 8):
believe the A340 cannot make JNB-JFK non-stop

The B744 can't do it either, unless they both have no pax or cargo onboard.  Smile


Rgds

SA7700
When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
 
JAM747
Posts: 524
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 12:17 am

RE: How's SA Doing?

Sat Nov 12, 2005 5:35 am

Quoting SA006 (Reply 8):
I believe the A340 cannot make JNB-JFK non-stop.

What about the 747-400? Do SA do a one stop in Senagal from JFK to JNB because it more lucrative or because it is not possible to do it non-stop ?
 
andz
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RE: How's SA Doing?

Sat Nov 12, 2005 5:41 am

Nothing SAA has can do JNB-JFK non stop economically. JNB being at 1800m above sea level has a lot to do with this. JFK-JNB non stop is a different story, I did it a couple of times by 744.
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
SA7700
Posts: 2940
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2003 9:38 pm

RE: How's SA Doing?

Sat Nov 12, 2005 5:51 am

Quoting JAM747 (Reply 11):
What about the 747-400? Do SA do a one stop in Senagal from JFK to JNB because it more lucrative or because it is not possible to do it non-stop ?

They downgraded from the B744 to the A343E, thus reducing capacity in effect. On the other hand, it must also be lucrative enough for SA if they downgraded the non-stops (JFK-JNB) from ± 3x a week to dailies. (JFK-JNB is now doing one-stops, both ways 7 days a week.)

IMMHO the B744's may have been too large for the JNB-JFK-JNB sector during off-peak seasons. However, during peak seasons they were packed most of the time.


Rgds

SA7700
When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
 
Ibhayi
Posts: 236
Joined: Wed May 25, 2005 7:23 am

RE: How's SA Doing?

Sat Nov 12, 2005 7:40 am

Their released figures where smoke and mirrors, its a moumental fuck up. The CEO is a moron to the highest degree and cat realise it. He pisses up tax payer money and when ever he opens his mouth its to do one of two things. Change feet or push the one currently in it further down his throat.

Khaya is the kidna guy if you saw in a dark alley at night you would turn of your lights and put your foot down, only to post his family the bill for the inconvience of having your car claned at a later stage after doing the world such a valuable service.

He wants to start a LCC carrier and as Novick one of the top guys at Comair SA said "why, so then can have a 3rd loosing airline only for the tax payer to subsidise yet another state airline that makes no money and has to be continuely bailed out"

With SAA's current fare structuring it is apparent they are attempting some sort of LCC fairing on their current routes, however their intended LCC has absolutely nothing to do with their current fair structuring. Its basically to get money in, as they desperately need it.

The list goes on of missmanagement. Who cares essentially its only money their pissing up. It aint their own.
fat girls give the best head because they're hungry
 
willyj
Posts: 410
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2005 3:04 am

RE: How's SA Doing?

Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:04 am

Quoting Ibhayi (Reply 14):
Their released figures where smoke and mirrors, its a moumental fuck up. The CEO is a moron to the highest degree and cat realise it. He pisses up tax payer money and when ever he opens his mouth its to do one of two things. Change feet or push the one currently in it further down his throat.

Khaya is the kidna guy if you saw in a dark alley at night you would turn of your lights and put your foot down, only to post his family the bill for the inconvience of having your car claned at a later stage after doing the world such a valuable service.

I'm not quite sure I follow. Do you like the CEO or not?
 
afrikaskyes
Posts: 118
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 10:56 am

RE: How's SA Doing?

Sat Nov 12, 2005 11:42 am

Can we be honest in this thread, please. This has everything to do with "transformation." This is happening with the rugby leadership, too.

Ok....this might be a bit harsh. I take it back.

[Edited 2005-11-12 03:45:52]
 
SA7700
Posts: 2940
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2003 9:38 pm

RE: How's SA Doing?

Sat Nov 12, 2005 3:42 pm

Quoting Afrikaskyes (Reply 16):
Can we be honest in this thread, please. This has everything to do with "transformation." This is happening with the rugby leadership, too.

Ok....this might be a bit harsh. I take it back.

Why take it back, this is a forum for debate!? Khaya's appointment as CEO of SA was a political one. It is the South African Government's idea of transformation and Khaya is making a huge ass of himself. Just like, he did at the IDC (Industrial Development Corp), where all his personnel virtually begged him to go. Then he went on to SA....

André Viljoen read the market wrong, made a huge mistake with fuel hedging and resigned. Coleman Andrews was on a planet of his own and I will not even get into details.

SA is a business and Government needs to realise that an airline, whether it is state-owned or not, requires a CEO and skilled management with extremely good airline management skills. If they do not, we as taxpayers will always have to bail out the national flag carrier while some fool in the "driving seat" likes to dabble around with new concepts, which is costing money and not bringing anything constructive to the airline.

I hope that Khaya’s days are numbered.


Rgds

SA7700
When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
 
SA7700
Posts: 2940
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2003 9:38 pm

RE: How's SA Doing?

Sat Nov 12, 2005 3:45 pm

Quoting Willyj (Reply 15):
I'm not quite sure I follow. Do you like the CEO or not?



Quoting Ibhayi (Reply 14):
The CEO is a moron to the highest degree and cat realise it.
When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)