chrisa330
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Air Canada Unveils New Seating

Fri Nov 11, 2005 4:31 am

 
hjulicher
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RE: Air Canada Unveils New Seating

Fri Nov 11, 2005 11:09 am

This looks really uncomfortable. To much separation in an already confined space. I don't like it.
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ZKOJH
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RE: Air Canada Unveils New Seating

Fri Nov 11, 2005 11:30 am

this the new trend follow on from another star alliance airline, (NZ) tho get NZ to do the work, and save some jobs!!
Vietnam time..
 
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PA110
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RE: Air Canada Unveils New Seating

Fri Nov 11, 2005 11:36 am

Quoting Zkojh (Reply 2):
this the new trend follow on from another star alliance airline, (NZ) tho get NZ to do the work, and save some jobs!!

Actually these seats were first introduced by VS.
It's been swell, but the swelling has gone down.
 
tpaewr
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RE: Air Canada Unveils New Seating

Fri Nov 11, 2005 12:02 pm

Quoting Hjulicher (Reply 1):
This looks really uncomfortable. To much separation in an already confined space. I don't like it.

I have to agree, it "looks" bad. I haven't flown this lay out yet.Only the other trend (ie 170 flat ) Perhaps it works better than it looks.


I think we are seeing the strain of trying to stuff P seats into J spaces.
 
roseflyer
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RE: Air Canada Unveils New Seating

Fri Nov 11, 2005 1:53 pm

Are these seats the same as the ones developed by VS and licensed to NZ? They look a little different since the wall curves around into the aisle more and the seat looks like it is shaped differently. It looks like a new copy cat design.

http://www.aircanada.com/en/about/media/facts/documents/seat_lieflat.jpg

http://www.aircanada.com/en/about/media/facts/documents/Seat_cabin_view.jpg


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Skydrol
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RE: Air Canada Unveils New Seating

Fri Nov 11, 2005 2:52 pm

Interesting, but the aisles look really narrow between those cells.

Wonder if they tested the aisles in this layout to be passable for someone with a 48" waist.



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MarshalN
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RE: Air Canada Unveils New Seating

Fri Nov 11, 2005 2:55 pm

Looks like AC's seats have a bit more privacy than VS', but it's not clear from the pics since nobody's sitting in them
 
ACB777
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RE: Air Canada Unveils New Seating

Fri Nov 11, 2005 5:08 pm

Are there any photos of AC's new economy class seats anywhere on the internet?
 
A319XFW
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RE: Air Canada Unveils New Seating

Fri Nov 11, 2005 5:25 pm

I also take it looking at the photos that the passengers will be seated slightly at an angle to the direction of flight? Must be odd on take-off......

I'm presuming that the A320 family seats will be replaced when the aircraft are having their phase checks done?
 
cslusarc
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RE: Air Canada Unveils New Seating

Fri Nov 11, 2005 5:37 pm

Is the 1-1-1 seating configuration for the 767s or the 333s/343s?
--cslusarc from YWG
 
zvezda
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RE: Air Canada Unveils New Seating

Fri Nov 11, 2005 6:12 pm

Quoting Hjulicher (Reply 1):
This looks really uncomfortable. To much separation in an already confined space. I don't like it.

Huh??? It looks to me like a huge improvement in privacy. Still, I would prefer a door that closes and much higher privacy screens.
 
aircanada014
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RE: Air Canada Unveils New Seating

Sat Nov 12, 2005 1:26 am

Why are you all giving bad negatives if you guys haven't flown on any of the products?. You can't judge by the looks until you actually flown in one. I for myself see lots of improvements of the products on AC. I think its about time AC offer something better than their previous products. If you have been on several seats prove to us with a picture of you in the lie flat seats.
 
martinairyyz
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RE: Air Canada Unveils New Seating

Sat Nov 12, 2005 2:27 am

Looks very uncomfy... couldn't expect more from AC....... the seats are crammed in like sardines, and the aisles are made for a toddler.......

M.
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kaitak744
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RE: Air Canada Unveils New Seating

Sat Nov 12, 2005 2:31 am

Quoting Skydrol (Reply 6):
Interesting, but the aisles look really narrow between those cells.

Wonder if they tested the aisles in this layout to be passable for someone with a 48" waist.

Well, in their future, they will have a long hual fleet of only 777s and 787s. On that aircraft, the aisle and seats will probably be wider (since the aircraft is wider).
 
MarshalN
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RE: Air Canada Unveils New Seating

Sat Nov 12, 2005 2:54 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 11):
Huh??? It looks to me like a huge improvement in privacy. Still, I would prefer a door that closes and much higher privacy screens.

I would think that might have safety issues -- like during an emergency evacuation it might make it difficult for pax to find the nearest open exit, etc
 
YYZatcboy
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RE: Air Canada Unveils New Seating

Sat Nov 12, 2005 3:12 am

I would hate those walls. It also looks like there is no view out of the window! Embarrassment
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squared
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RE: Air Canada Unveils New Seating

Sat Nov 12, 2005 3:22 am

Quoting MartinairYYZ (Reply 13):
Looks very uncomfy... couldn't expect more from AC....... the seats are crammed in like sardines, and the aisles are made for a toddler.......

The seat dimensions are actually quite promising. As a bed, the shoulder width is 31", which is larger than BA's Club World, and SA's acclaimed Business Class.

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 5):
It looks like a new copy cat design.

AC's manufacturer, Contour Premium Aircraft Seating, is also the manufacturer of VS and NZ's seats...

SQuared
 
aircanada014
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RE: Air Canada Unveils New Seating

Sat Nov 12, 2005 3:59 am

I can't wait to try out their new flie flat bed..
 
Bohlman
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RE: Air Canada Unveils New Seating

Sat Nov 12, 2005 4:01 am

Quoting YYZatcboy (Reply 16):
I would hate those walls. It also looks like there is no view out of the window! Embarrassment

I've been waiting for somebody to say something along these lines. I'd hate it too. Something about sitting in a cubicle with no outside view just bothers me, i guess.
I'm not pro-Boeing or pro-Airbus, I'm pro-crew all the way.
 
aircanada014
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RE: Air Canada Unveils New Seating

Sat Nov 12, 2005 4:03 am

i guess the ones who has flown in Virgin's Upper Class suite and NZ new first class will probably enjoy AC's seats since its almost the same layout.
 
ac7e7
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RE: Air Canada Unveils New Seating

Sat Nov 12, 2005 4:21 am

Quoting MartinairYYZ (Reply 13):
Looks very uncomfy... couldn't expect more from AC....... the seats are crammed in like sardines, and the aisles are made for a toddler.......

Give me a break, the pics are mockups. The pics are meant to show you the seats.

Wait till an aircraft is actually equipped with these seats and yoiu try them out before you judge its 'comfy-ness'.
 
SE210Caravelle
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RE: Air Canada Unveils New Seating

Sat Nov 12, 2005 4:51 am

Quoting Tpaewr (Reply 4):
I have to agree, it "looks" bad.

Speaking of looks why does AC insist on using that really ugly cloth. It's disgusting, if you ask me and it doesn't go at all with that red pillow. How about white leather and red silk pillows.  wink  Now we're talking!

Quoting ACB777 (Reply 8):
Are there any photos of AC's new economy class seats anywhere on the internet?

Not that I am aware of. I didn't even know they were coming out with a new Economy.

Quoting A319XFW (Reply 9):
[The new seats] Must be odd on take-off

No more so then BA's rear facing Club World seats, or Virgins acclaimed Upper Class Suite.

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 11):
It looks to me like a huge improvement in privacy. Still, I would prefer a door that closes and much higher privacy screens.

I think, privacy wise, it does what a business class seat should do. The things above are more geared, IMO, to a first class seat, on a three class configured aircraft. Adding what you have stated above would make the seat border line claustrophobic, wouldn't you think?

Quoting AirCanada014 (Reply 12):
Why are you all giving bad negatives if you guys haven't flown on any of the products?

Just look at it.

Quoting MartinairYYZ (Reply 13):
couldn't expect more from AC

I disagree. It seems to me that Air Canada is becoming a truly "world class" airline with the expected deliveries of the 777's and 787's, new seats (which any way you look at it, do seem to be an improvement), a beautiful livery and now PTV's.

Quoting Bohlman (Reply 19):
Something about sitting in a cubicle with no outside view just bothers me, i guess.

Me to. These seats seem really cramped and isolated.

My two cents,

S E 2 1 0
 
David T
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RE: Air Canada Unveils New Seating

Sat Nov 12, 2005 4:52 am

If one traveled as a single person, Air Canada is certainly credited for trying to remain competitive, but I have not quite figured how this can be enjoyable when you travel with your wife, partner, etc. Remember, we are airline geeks and love this stuff, but my wife thinks flying is nothing but getting you as fast as you can to the beach, mai tai's and a 5 star hotel. I already know, without saying a word, that she would refuse to have me spend the extra on any route to have 2 seats in the new configuration where we cannot even reasonable sit together, let alone even see each other. (The extra seat for dining is over rated and uncomfortable, no practical use over a period of time.)

Just my 2 cents worth gang.

Submitted in my humble opinion.
 
Cessnapimp
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RE: Air Canada Unveils New Seating

Sat Nov 12, 2005 6:40 am

David T,

I completely understand your POV, and in your case, this is certainly an impediment. However...

I believe that in today's world we are tired of being linked up. What with the advent of the internet, and now those blackberrys, you can transform any environnement you are in into a 24hr/day office. Couples nowadays don't really mind spending "me" time. No exception for the airplane either. You can still get your ear talked off by your boss, but it is only a matter of time before he tires on the small seat. Only problem is you might feel obliged to sit in HIS adjacent seat, in which case you're SOL.

Another argument for this new configuration is the obnoxious and overly chatty seat neighbour. Ever spent 4 hours with a neighbour with cheap white wine breath in economy insisting on telling you his/her life, including future projections? Torture.
 
jaysit
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RE: Air Canada Unveils New Seating

Sat Nov 12, 2005 6:47 am

Why are you people grumbling about this arrangement?

It is the new (and highest) standard in Business class seating with Virgin and Air New Zealand having adopted it to rave reviews.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
planemanofnz
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RE: Air Canada Unveils New Seating

Sat Nov 12, 2005 9:34 am

This will be good if NZ, VS and now AC could offer some sort of round the world ticket in business class because of product similarity. Just a thought though
 
stuckinMAF
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RE: Air Canada Unveils New Seating

Sat Nov 12, 2005 11:03 am

And they call Southwest "Cattle Car". Hmph.  boxedin 
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" -Sigmund Freud
 
EnviroTO
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RE: Air Canada Unveils New Seating

Sat Nov 12, 2005 11:42 am

A huge improvement over their current offering although the walls make it look a bit claustrophobic and the seat cushions look like they are as comfortable as a gym mat... I don't think those cushions have anything on Westin's Heavenly Bed  Smile Big improvement and it looks like that privacy is what the market is looking for.
 
piercey
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RE: Air Canada Unveils New Seating

Sat Nov 12, 2005 11:53 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 11):
Still, I would prefer a door that closes and much higher privacy screens.

Fly EK, 'nuff said

I'll hold further judgement for the time being, but it looks tight for anyone that isn't the Olsen twins and Paris Hilton     

edit: just found this link in another thread. Doesn't the Business Class seats look a little early '90s?

[Edited 2005-11-12 04:14:33]

edit: figures, forgot to post link  Embarrassment http://www.achorizons.ca/en/issues/2005/november/agm.htm

[Edited 2005-11-12 04:15:56]
Well I believe it all is coming to an end. Oh well, I guess we are gonna pretend.
 
boeingfanyyz
Posts: 970
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RE: Air Canada Unveils New Seating

Sat Nov 12, 2005 12:18 pm

Looks pretty pathetic to me! I think Air Canada would be embarrassing our country by allowing passengers to sit on those poor excuses for a comfortable seat.
Cheers,
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"If it aint boeing, it aint going!", "Friends are like condoms...they protect you when things get hard!"
 
aircanada014
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RE: Air Canada Unveils New Seating

Sat Nov 12, 2005 12:51 pm

I don't think those seats are cramp. more privacy isn't that bad either if you are traveling alone. if traveling with a friend is a different story. I don't find it tight and cramp. I don't know where you guys see it being tight and cramp.
 
CVG777
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RE: Air Canada Unveils New Seating

Sat Nov 12, 2005 1:47 pm

I got the chance to experience Virgin's Upper Class Suite over the summer, JFK-LHR-JFK on the A346, and let me tell you that the seats and the whole arrangement is overall very comfortable, and brilliant, IMHO.

I traveled with my family, and we were arranged two on the window side and two in the middle. We could look at each other and talk across the aisle, although it was not possible to have a quiet conversation. Usually when my family travels, though, we all drift off into our own little worlds until we land. Also, it really wasn't bad talking to the person next to you, when the seat is in the fully upright position. You will notice that the headrests come above the partition when they are fully upright. If you don't want to talk or look at anyone else, recline the seat a little bit and you end up below the partition and can go into your own little world.

From the looks of this too, I think I would like the Air Canada seat over the Virgin seat because it was not possible to put the Virgin seat into the cradle position. You could recline it somewhat, but the actual seat merely slid out a little further to bring you below the partition. To turn the seat into the full bed you have to get out of the seat and push a button that flips the seatback over to create the flat surface. The back of the seatback has a different material that is very comfortable though. And it really is flat.

It was great being able to have a truly flat surface for the overnight flight. I have never flown in any other international business product before, but this was amazing. It was great because when you laid down, your space wasn't violated by anyone snoring or any lights coming from anywhere. It is very quiet, dark, and cozy. If I were a business traveler, I would take that seat over anything else. Another benefit is not having to disturb someone to get to the aisle. All you do is stand up, and you are in the aisle.

Its also amazing all the little storage spaces that Virgin incorporated into the seat, and it looks like the Air Canada seat has a little bit more. There were about five different areas that you could put stuff. If you notice the first pic in reply 5, the rectangle in the lower right of the screen popped up on VS, and you could put smaller articles in there, and put it back down into the seat. That way no one really has easy access to anything that you have that may be valuable.

I do admit though that the Air Canada aisles look a bit narrower that Virgin.

Quoting MartinairYYZ (Reply 13):
Looks very uncomfy... couldn't expect more from AC....... the seats are crammed in like sardines, and the aisles are made for a toddler.......

On my return flight there was a very large woman, and I do mean very large, seated in one of the seats, and she seemed to have no problem. Its really not as cramped as it appears. While I am not sure what the height comparison is between VS and the new AC seats, it actually felt very open and accessible.

Quoting MarshalN (Reply 15):
I would think that might have safety issues -- like during an emergency evacuation it might make it difficult for pax to find the nearest open exit, etc

I don't know about the whole emergency exit situation, but the seats on Virgin, and I would assume these seats as well, can be in the reclined position for landing. I don't know the exact reason why, but I would venture to guess that it is because each person has direct aisle access, and the seat in front does not restrict the anyone's aisle access in the row behind.

Quoting YYZatcboy (Reply 16):
I would hate those walls. It also looks like there is no view out of the window!



Quoting Bohlman (Reply 19):
I've been waiting for somebody to say something along these lines. I'd hate it too. Something about sitting in a cubicle with no outside view just bothers me, i guess.

The view out the window is not that great. I was a little disappointed that I couldn't look out, but VS had an amazing entertainment system that kept me occupied for nearly 7.5 hours, so I was happy. To look out the window, you have to recline the seat and turn your head back a little bit, and it is somewhat uncomfortable. It is manageable though, but not for extended periods of time. I even got a few good pictures.

However, on an overnight flight especially, VS asked that we all keep our window shades down so that night lasted longer inside the cabin. We took off from JFK at 11:30pm, and less than three hours into the flight, I peeked open my window to discover full daylight...and very bright daylight at that. Therefore, a window view really didn't matter then. We didn't open the windows until about 45 minutes out of London.

Also, its really not that weird on takeoff. You do get pressed up against the partition a little bit, but it isn't that forceful or bothersome.

On the downside, the little footrest seat really serves no other purpose than a footrest. It could be a seat, but it would be very cramped to have to people sitting together having a face-to-face conversation. Overall, this seat is truly targeted towards business travelers. Families with smaller children would probably have difficulty functioning in these seats.

Hope this answered some of the questions or points. In my opinion, its a great idea and very comfortable. And there did seem to be a very positive response (as in, nearly everyone was sleeping in the fully flat position).

If you ever get the chance, give the seats a try. I was extremely impressed.

-Mike
 
imatams
Posts: 312
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RE: Air Canada Unveils New Seating

Sun Nov 13, 2005 12:24 am

Is it me, or is something missing in those seats: the 'folding' headrest!! That's one of the most dramatic improvement in modern aircraft seats compared to some years ago, and now they seem to be missing, unless the whole top section of that J-seat is foldable of course... And can't see them on the Y-seats either, though the only pic is from the back and inconclusive on that issue.. Actually I really like AC's current 330/340 Y seats. Hope this is an improvement.....


IM
 
accargo
Posts: 576
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RE: Air Canada Unveils New Seating

Sun Nov 13, 2005 2:06 am

I believe that details such as aisle width for emergency evacutaion are safety mandated items. There is a minimum standard that must be adhered to, so all the complaints about the aisle being to narrow don't hold water. As for all the other complaints, I'm not surprised at all, it is the Anet way.
 
HanginOut
Posts: 521
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 3:24 am

RE: Air Canada Unveils New Seating

Tue Nov 15, 2005 9:45 am

I think the seats look great, although, I do admit I am not a big fan of the colour scheme. I think they would have looked better if they were a solid blue, like the footrest.

Can't wait to give it a try.

HanginOut
Dreaming of the day I can work for an airline
 
lnglive1011yyz
Posts: 1502
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2003 12:23 pm

RE: Air Canada Unveils New Seating

Tue Nov 15, 2005 10:30 am

Cannot this airline do ANYTHING right in some of your minds??

First them coming out of bankruptcy was wrong.

Then the new paint was wrong.

Then them renewing their fleet was wrong.

And now this?

It's a CHANGE people.. The people flying in these seats are OBVIOUSLY asking for this, or they wouldn't be doing it.

Man the negativity here is almost draining sometimes.

1011yyz
Pack your bags, we're going on a sympathy trip!
 
lnglive1011yyz
Posts: 1502
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2003 12:23 pm

RE: Air Canada Unveils New Seating

Tue Nov 15, 2005 11:23 am

Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 36):
Cannot this airline do ANYTHING right in some of your minds??

First them coming out of bankruptcy was wrong.

Then the new paint was wrong.

Then them renewing their fleet was wrong.


NOT to mention the bare metal paint on the '67's.

Sorry, had to.

LOL

I'm looking forward to seeing these on board their fleet. AC is *finally* starting to show that it *is* the best North American airline.

1011yyz
Pack your bags, we're going on a sympathy trip!

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