JetMaster
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Airbus: No More A380 Delays, No RR Engine Problems

Sat Nov 12, 2005 1:23 am

Article in International Herald Tribune:

http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/11/11/business/airbus.php


SINGAPORE As the double-decker Airbus A380 made its first landing in Asia on Friday, Airbus assured Asian airlines that there would be no further delays in the delivery of the superjumbo and promised compensation for losses.

The chief operating officer of Airbus, Charles Champion, who is also head of the A380 program, said there had been no problem with the Rolls-Royce engines and that the replacement had been just a precautionary measure.


Regards,
JM
The Journey is my Destination
 
ikramerica
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RE: Airbus: No More A380 Delays, No RR Engine Problems

Sat Nov 12, 2005 1:34 am

Quoting JetMaster (Thread starter):
The chief operating officer of Airbus, Charles Champion, who is also head of the A380 program, said there had been no problem with the Rolls-Royce engines and that the replacement had been just a precautionary measure.

Good to hear, though it still likely didn't sit well that A blamed RR for the Singapore delay if there was nothing wrong with the engines. Sounds more like poor scheduling of maintenance to me.

Can't wait to see the pics in Australia for the celebration. Should be cool.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
Spruit
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RE: Airbus: No More A380 Delays, No RR Engine Problems

Sat Nov 12, 2005 1:36 am

Quoting JetMaster (Thread starter):
no further delays in the delivery of the superjumbo and promised compensation for losses

What is the first delivery date for an aircraft to SQ? And it would be interesting to find out what the compensation turns out to be!!
E=Mc2
 
A319XFW
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RE: Airbus: No More A380 Delays, No RR Engine Problems

Sat Nov 12, 2005 1:38 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 1):
Good to hear, though it still likely didn't sit well that A blamed RR for the Singapore delay if there was nothing wrong with the engines. Sounds more like poor scheduling of maintenance to me.

Can't wait to see the pics in Australia for the celebration. Should be cool.

Better to be safe than sorry and change those engines if there is even the slightest doubt. An in-flight shutdown or emergency landing would be worse press!
As it seems though, the problem is only limited to MSN001 as that has got pre-production engines as opposed to the other aircraft which have the full production standard.
 
NIKV69
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RE: Airbus: No More A380 Delays, No RR Engine Problems

Sat Nov 12, 2005 1:40 am

Nothing is ever Airbus' fault, haven't we learned that yet? I still feel Airbus rushed this thing in the air. This is why we are seeing these delays. I am still trying to fiure out how this aircraft is going to be a success. With all these delays and compensation and the fact that there aren't that many carriers that can use this thing, especially here in the US. Also I still feel this thing is going to cost a lot more to operate than everyone thinks. Not to mention it is Butt Ugly!   

[Edited 2005-11-11 17:58:09]
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
JetMaster
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RE: Airbus: No More A380 Delays, No RR Engine Problems

Sat Nov 12, 2005 1:46 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 1):
though it still likely didn't sit well that A blamed RR for the Singapore delay if there was nothing wrong with the engines.

Didn't RR suggest the engine change?

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 1):
Sounds more like poor scheduling of maintenance to me.

Sounds not very likely.


Regards,
JM
The Journey is my Destination
 
Spruit
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RE: Airbus: No More A380 Delays, No RR Engine Problems

Sat Nov 12, 2005 1:47 am

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 4):
Not to mention it is Butt Ugly!

Beauty is definitely in the eye of the beholder!

 Smile
E=Mc2
 
flyAUA
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RE: Airbus: No More A380 Delays, No RR Engine Problems

Sat Nov 12, 2005 1:49 am

Nice read JM  

Quoting A319XFW (Reply 3):
As it seems though, the problem is only limited to MSN001 as that has got pre-production engines as opposed to the other aircraft which have the full production standard.

That clarifies a lot of issues... thanks for sharing. Does that mean that RR has now ensured the engines (that were replaced) on MSN001 are the same as the other aircaft thereafter?

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 4):

Wow, it took a whole 4 replies until some retard turned a normal thread into another Airbus bash. We're getting better at this   

[Edited 2005-11-11 17:51:02]
Not drinking, also isn't a solution!
 
JetMaster
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RE: Airbus: No More A380 Delays, No RR Engine Problems

Sat Nov 12, 2005 1:53 am

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 4):
Nothing is ever Airbus' fault, haven't we learned that yet?

Who has been the teacher?  Wink

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 4):
I am still trying to fiure out how this aircraft is going to be a success. With all these delays and compensation and the fact that there aren't that many carriers that can use this thing, especially here in the US.

The US airlines are not really relevant for the VLA market. If Boeing had been dependant on US airlines for its B747-400 then it would have been a dramatic failure.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 4):
Also I still feel this thing is going to cost a lot more to operate than everyone thinks.

If the overweight problem is solved (as reported) then your feeling is not justified.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 4):
Not to mehntion it is Butt Ugly!

The most important aspect of all for that discussion...  Yeah sure


Regards,
JM
The Journey is my Destination
 
BR076
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RE: Airbus: No More A380 Delays, No RR Engine Prob

Sat Nov 12, 2005 1:55 am

Quoting FlyAUA (Reply 7):
Wow, it took a whole 4 replies until some retard turned a normal thread into another Airbus bash. We're getting better at this

Yeah I noticed that too, let's wait till the other usual suspects show up. Wink
ú
 
NIKV69
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RE: Airbus: No More A380 Delays, No RR Engine Problems

Sat Nov 12, 2005 2:01 am

Quoting FlyAUA (Reply 7):
Wow, it took a whole 4 replies until some retard turned a normal thread into another Airbus bash. We're getting better at this

You Euros are so touchy, merely stating my opinion. If this is against yours it doesn't mean it's A vs B. Grow up.

Quoting JetMaster (Reply 8):
If the overweight problem is solved (as reported) then your feeling is not justified.

Time will tell.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
dazeflight
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RE: Airbus: No More A380 Delays, No RR Engine Prob

Sat Nov 12, 2005 2:05 am

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 10):
Quoting FlyAUA (Reply 7):
Wow, it took a whole 4 replies until some retard turned a normal thread into another Airbus bash. We're getting better at this

You Euros are so touchy, merely stating my opinion. If this is against yours it doesn't mean it's A vs B. Grow up.

Quoting JetMaster (Reply 8):
If the overweight problem is solved (as reported) then your feeling is not justified.

Time will tell.

Have a look at your post and get over your issues first, before you claim that anyone here is touchy. Better concentrate on golfing,  butthead 
 
StuckInCA
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RE: Airbus: No More A380 Delays, No RR Engine Problems

Sat Nov 12, 2005 2:14 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 1):

Can't wait to see the pics in Australia for the celebration

Agreed.

I wonder what was (is) really going on with the engines. Not that I think there is some big problem being covered up by Airbus... I'm just curious technically as to what the whole story is. Guess we'll never know.
 
flyAUA
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RE: Airbus: No More A380 Delays, No RR Engine Problems

Sat Nov 12, 2005 2:53 am

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 10):
You Euros are so touchy, merely stating my opinion. If this is against yours it doesn't mean it's A vs B. Grow up.

People in here were having a completely normal conversation discussing engines and money compensation, until you barged in and started talking about how you think the A388 is butt ugly, how airlines are not interesting in using "this thing", and how airbus has rushed the whole thing (Oh wait a moment... why are there delays? Oh right yeah I remember, they didn't want to rush things and get it right instead). I think it's clear who's being touchy here. There was absolutely no point in you pooping on an interesting thread, just because you don't like an aircraft, and making your opinion clear when it contributes nothing productive to the thread, and is clearly flamebait!
Not drinking, also isn't a solution!
 
M27
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RE: Airbus: No More A380 Delays, No RR Engine Problems

Sat Nov 12, 2005 2:59 am

Quoting BR076 (Reply 9):
Quoting FlyAUA (Reply 7):
Wow, it took a whole 4 replies until some retard turned a normal thread into another Airbus bash. We're getting better at this

Yeah I noticed that too, let's wait till the other usual suspects show up.

Well, when you have statements like this-

Quoting JetMaster (Thread starter):
The chief operating officer of Airbus, Charles Champion, who is also head of the A380 program, said there had been no problem with the Rolls-Royce engines and that the replacement had been just a precautionary measure.

What do you expect? I mean, did they think there was something wrong with them and they couldn't determine that on wing and found out after they were removed there was no problem? I doubt that!

Or is like--I'm going to remove the tires off my truck: they have about 10,000 miles on them (about 1/4 life expectancy) and the tread is good and there is no problem I can determine whatever, but just as a precaution, I'm going to go get a new set.

You know the guy could have just said-there was some uncertainty about this or that, and we felt it best to leave no question. But no, he says there is no problem, we just did it as a precaution! I ask, why did you do it as a precaution, and why didn't you put a new rudder on it, just as a precaution?

And before I get the deal about the engines were pre production yada,yada, yada stuff, I just remind you of the word UNSCHEDULED.

Its the obvious double speak spin applied hear that bothers me! Reminds me of Ocean front property in Arizona for sale.

As for

Quoting JetMaster (Thread starter):
Airbus assured Asian airlines that there would be no further delays in the delivery of the superjumbo

to use a saying I've heard--Statements like this or the quickest way to get God to laugh.
 
abba
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RE: Airbus: No More A380 Delays, No RR Engine Problems

Sat Nov 12, 2005 3:01 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 1):
Good to hear, though it still likely didn't sit well that A blamed RR for the Singapore delay if there was nothing wrong with the engines. Sounds more like poor scheduling of maintenance to me.

The engines were changed due to RR's request. It has been widely reported.

Quoting Spruit (Reply 2):
What is the first delivery date for an aircraft to SQ? And it would be interesting to find out what the compensation turns out to be!!

Perhaps a sweet deal on the 350....

Abba
 
flyAUA
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RE: Airbus: No More A380 Delays, No RR Engine Problems

Sat Nov 12, 2005 3:14 am

Quoting M27 (Reply 14):
I ask, why did you do it as a precaution, and why didn't you put a new rudder on it, just as a precaution?

For reasons you, me, and others would not understand. Lets let the professionals do their work, shall we?  

Quoting Abba (Reply 15):
Perhaps a sweet deal on the 350....

 yes 

[Edited 2005-11-11 19:23:13]
Not drinking, also isn't a solution!
 
WingedMigrator
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RE: Airbus: No More A380 Delays, No RR Engine Problems

Sat Nov 12, 2005 3:16 am

Quoting M27 (Reply 14):
And before I get the deal about the engines were pre production yada,yada, yada stuff, I just remind you of the word UNSCHEDULED.

So what? It's a TEST program, isn't it?

In a test program, even with production spec engines, the engines are wired up to the gills with telemetry sensors. Swapping an engine, pre-production or not, is therefore much more difficult. Things need to be wired up correctly, sensors need to be calibrated, or yadda yadda yadda as you might characterize it.
 
Ralgha
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RE: Airbus: No More A380 Delays, No RR Engine Problems

Sat Nov 12, 2005 3:33 am

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 4):
Not to mention it is Butt Ugly!

Isn't it though? It doesn't really matter how heavy it is, it's so ugly the earth repells it. It doesn't need to be able to fly.
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
 
M27
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RE: Airbus: No More A380 Delays, No RR Engine Problems

Sat Nov 12, 2005 3:36 am

Quoting FlyAUA (Reply 16):
For reasons you, me, and others would not understand. Lets let the professionals do their work, shall we?

Great answer! I don't plan to interfere at all!

Quoting WingedMigrator (Reply 17):
So what? It's a TEST program, isn't it?

In a test program, even with production spec engines, the engines are wired up to the gills with telemetry sensors. Swapping an engine, pre-production or not, is therefore much more difficult. Things need to be wired up correctly, sensors need to be calibrated, or yadda yadda yadda as you might characterize it.

All the more strange that they would do this when there is no problem!
 
A319XFW
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RE: Airbus: No More A380 Delays, No RR Engine Problems

Sat Nov 12, 2005 3:43 am

Quoting FlyAUA (Reply 7):
That clarifies a lot of issues... thanks for sharing. Does that mean that RR has now ensured the engines (that were replaced) on MSN001 are the same as the other aircaft thereafter?

Don't know what type of engines they put on, can't find that anywhere on the web. But as WingedMigrator rightly says they are instrumented to the brim, so you'll have to wire all the FTI back up too.
 
leelaw
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RE: Airbus: No More A380 Delays, No RR Engine Problems

Sat Nov 12, 2005 3:46 am

"...Champion said the introduction of the plane was now on track. He said production would be stepped up, but new A380 customers will have to wait at least six years to take delivery..."

Is this new? I thought delivery slots were only sold-out through 2009?
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
WingedMigrator
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RE: Airbus: No More A380 Delays, No RR Engine Prob

Sat Nov 12, 2005 4:28 am

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 22):
"...Champion said the introduction of the plane was now on track. He said production would be stepped up, but new A380 customers will have to wait at least six years to take delivery..."

Is this new? I thought delivery slots were only sold-out through 2009?

See this article: Critical flight tests ahead as A380 flies in

It says, among other things:

"Airbus chief operating officer, commercial, John Leahy said that all but three production slots until 2010 had already been sold and he wished he had another 30 A380s to sell, not just three.

"We have approached airlines that have options on the A380 but they don't want to give up their slots," he said.


So after de-Leahy-ization of the statement, perhaps they're simply assuming that some options will be taken.
 
A360
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RE: Airbus: No More A380 Delays, No RR Engine Problems

Sat Nov 12, 2005 6:22 am

Quoting WingedMigrator (Reply 22):
So after de-Leahy-ization of the statement, perhaps they're simply assuming that some options will be taken.

Those 3 delivery slots until 2010 is assuming all options will be taken.
That is because options secure delivery slots... so they cannot sell those slots.

Regards:
A360
 
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Crosswind
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RE: Airbus: No More A380 Delays, No RR Engine Problems

Sat Nov 12, 2005 7:08 am

A few reported facts.

• The engines installed on A380 MSN001 were a pre-production standard.

• During a flight on 28 October NSN001 suffered an unexplained EGT increase in one engine. The affected engine was not shut down, but was brought back to flight idle and the aircraft's test profile was abandoned and it landed early.

• Another engine on MSN001 had already been removed for wear and other analysis.

• Airbus and Rolls-Royce were concerned about a lengthy publicity tour away from base with a possible unresolved engine issue. Therefore the decision was made to replace the remaining 2 engines with production-standard engines.

• MSN001 was the only A380 flying with the pre-production standard engines.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 1):
Good to hear, though it still likely didn't sit well that A blamed RR for the Singapore delay if there was nothing wrong with the engines.

They don't yet know if there was "nothing wrong" with the engines - which is why they have all been replaced with production-standard donks.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 1):
Sounds more like poor scheduling of maintenance to me.

Sounds like you don't understand the issues involved to me.

Quoting A319XFW (Reply 3):
Better to be safe than sorry and change those engines if there is even the slightest doubt. An in-flight shutdown or emergency landing would be worse press!
As it seems though, the problem is only limited to MSN001 as that has got pre-production engines as opposed to the other aircraft which have the full production standard.

Very true!

Quoting M27 (Reply 14):
What do you expect? I mean, did they think there was something wrong with them and they couldn't determine that on wing and found out after they were removed there was no problem? I doubt that!

Or is like--I'm going to remove the tires off my truck: they have about 10,000 miles on them (about 1/4 life expectancy) and the tread is good and there is no problem I can determine whatever, but just as a precaution, I'm going to go get a new set.

You know the guy could have just said-there was some uncertainty about this or that, and we felt it best to leave no question. But no, he says there is no problem, we just did it as a precaution! I ask, why did you do it as a precaution, and why didn't you put a new rudder on it, just as a precaution?

And before I get the deal about the engines were pre production yada,yada, yada stuff, I just remind you of the word UNSCHEDULED.

The analogy of tyres for problems with a jet engine doesn't sit well with the reported facts, especially when there is a possible problem and they're about to embark on a publicity tour.

What if your tyres were only 1/4 worn but you'd got some tyres fitted that were still under development, and a new upgraded model had already been available based on that development. A few days ago the back-end lost grip while you were driving along a straight road, for no reason you can understand, so you changed the rear tyres to the new version. Tomorrow you're driving your family 400 miles to a wedding. Do you consider replacing the front tyres?

Flight Internation Article which originally carried the story.

Regards
CROSSWIND
 
ikramerica
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RE: Airbus: No More A380 Delays, No RR Engine Problems

Sat Nov 12, 2005 7:42 am

Quoting A319XFW (Reply 3):
Better to be safe than sorry and change those engines if there is even the slightest doubt. An in-flight shutdown or emergency landing would be worse press!

Absolutely. Not just bad press, but away from home base, it would cause major delays. Changing out the engines was the right choice, no argument, which is of course why they did it.

Quoting JetMaster (Reply 5):
Sounds not very likely.

Sounds not very rational.

If the engines were giving issues, and they WERE, for months now, and this was the first planned flight away from the safety of the Airbus countries, then the scheduling of the changeout should have been incorporated, not a 'last minute' idea.

Anyone planning a long trip in a car shouldn't wait for the day before the trip to make critical maintenance decisions.

It's called planning, and either RR or A or both didn't do it right. Reality speaks for itself.

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 12):
I wonder what was (is) really going on with the engines. Not that I think there is some big problem being covered up by Airbus... I'm just curious technically as to what the whole story is. Guess we'll never know.

Absolutely nothing. Everything is fine and always was. Engines were changed just to make the news.

Quoting Abba (Reply 15):
The engines were changed due to RR's request. It has been widely reported.

No, it hasn't. All SORTS of reasons were widely reported. Airbus blamed RR in one press release, but if you are going to believe everything A says, you also have to believe everything Boeing says too. Frankly, I'm not that trusting...

I stand by my scheduling comment because they put #3 in the air when they could have used those engines, or the resources applied to installing and testing those engines on #3, to make sure #1 was going to make the trip on time and delay #3 first flight a few days instead.

Bad planning from a scheduling POV. #1 is on a CRITICAL PATH, and as such, you don't devote time to #3 when #1 needs attention. Critical Path items should always receive priority attention unless doing so will cause another item to cause worse critical path issues. Delaying #3 would not do that.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
StuckInCA
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RE: Airbus: No More A380 Delays, No RR Engine Problems

Sat Nov 12, 2005 8:10 am

Quoting Crosswind (Reply 24):
A few reported facts

Thanks for the information. Seems sensible.  thumbsup 
 
Toulouse
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RE: Airbus: No More A380 Delays, No RR Engine Problems

Sat Nov 12, 2005 9:47 am

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 4):
Nothing is ever Airbus' fault, haven't we learned that yet? I still feel Airbus rushed this thing in the air. This is why we are seeing these delays. I am still trying to fiure out how this aircraft is going to be a success. With all these delays and compensation and the fact that there aren't that many carriers that can use this thing, especially here in the US. Also I still feel this thing is going to cost a lot more to operate than everyone thinks. Not to mention it is Butt Ugly!



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 10):
You Euros are so touchy, merely stating my opinion. If this is against yours it doesn't mean it's A vs B. Grow up.

Quoting JetMaster (Reply 8):
If the overweight problem is solved (as reported) then your feeling is not justified.

Time will tell.

NIKV69 Thanks for your great insight and contribution to this thread.  yawn 

Quoting Crosswind (Reply 24):
Crosswind From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 2173 posts, RR: 46
Reply 24, posted Fri Nov 11 2005 23:08:21 UTC+1 and read 357 times

Crosswind. Thanks for your post. (And just in case, I'm being sincere here, unlike my thanks to NIKV69)!!  wink 
Long live Aer Lingus!
 
sparkingwave
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RE: Airbus: No More A380 Delays, No RR Engine Problems

Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:15 am

When the first 747s were being produced, Pratt & Whitney had a lot of trouble developing its JT9D engines for the plane. They were racing to finish the engineering to get it down just right. They were in such a crunch that Boeing had to step in and help them.

Even when the first 747s were delivered the engines were still not perfect. They were underpowered and pilots would push them to the limit to compensate. The engines overheated to the point where the jet engine casings - the front cowlings, began to change shape and "ovalize".

Pratt & Whitney ended up further engineering the turbofans and replaced them for all the 747s that had this problem.

In light of this, Airbus seems to have learned from this lesson and decided to take the time to make things right before first delivery. An unscheduled engine change is no big deal, compared to disappointing your customers after delivering your aircrafts to them...

Fuel for thought,

SparkingWave
Flights to the moon and all major space stations. At Pan Am, the sky is no longer the limit!
 
WingedMigrator
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RE: Airbus: No More A380 Delays, No RR Engine Problems

Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:35 am

Quoting A360 (Reply 23):
Those 3 delivery slots until 2010 is assuming all options will be taken.
That is because options secure delivery slots... so they cannot sell those slots.

I stand corrected...
 
BG777300ER
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RE: Airbus: No More A380 Delays, No RR Engine Problems

Sat Nov 12, 2005 1:13 pm

Maybe I'm just being stupid but even if I was given the chance to be on the first commercial A380 flight, I wouldn't do it. I know it will go through many test but I still would not fell as secure on it as I would on a 747 thats been in service for a while. I would probably wait a month or so see how it goes and then get a ticket to go on it. But hey, that's just me.
Koi mi sra v gashtite?
 
JetMaster
Topic Author
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RE: Airbus: No More A380 Delays, No RR Engine Prob

Sat Nov 12, 2005 4:13 pm

Quoting Crosswind (Reply 24):

That post was spot on!  thumbsup 

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 25):
If the engines were giving issues, and they WERE, for months now

Really? They WERE? Source please.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 25):
Reality speaks for itself.

Your perception of reality...  Smile

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 25):
No, it hasn't. All SORTS of reasons were widely reported.

Reported based on facts or speculations on a.net?  Confused

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 25):
Airbus blamed RR in one press release, but if you are going to believe everything A says, you also have to believe everything Boeing says too. Frankly, I'm not that trusting...

Ok - based on that logic you automatically assume RR did everything right and was unjustifiably blamed by Airbus?


Regards,
JM
The Journey is my Destination
 
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glideslope
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RE: Airbus: No More A380 Delays, No RR Engine Problems

Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:01 pm

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 4):
Nothing is ever Airbus' fault, haven't we learned that yet? I still feel Airbus rushed this thing in the air. This is why we are seeing these delays. I am still trying to fiure out how this aircraft is going to be a success. With all these delays and compensation and the fact that there aren't that many carriers that can use this thing, especially here in the US. Also I still feel this thing is going to cost a lot more to operate than everyone thinks.

Absolutely. This is why operators are so reluctant to order the plane. Airbus simply can no longer be relied upon for the truth. You also see this with the 350. Airbus had an opportunity to correct their reputation from the vast damage it received with the 346 performance fiasco.

The 380 will be a make or break airframe for Airbus. If it runs the numbers as advertised all will be well. If not, you will see Airbus start to fade away.

Very simple.
To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu
 
JetMaster
Topic Author
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RE: Airbus: No More A380 Delays, No RR Engine Problems

Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:03 pm

Quoting Glideslope (Reply 32):
If not, you will see Airbus start to fade away.



Quoting Glideslope (Reply 32):

Very simple.

Indeed a very "simple" way of describing possible future developments...  Yeah sure


Regards,
JM
The Journey is my Destination
 
B707Stu
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RE: Airbus: No More A380 Delays, No RR Engine Problems

Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:42 pm

Isn't it time to work on a hybrid aircraft?
 
art
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RE: Airbus: No More A380 Delays, No RR Engine Problems

Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:47 pm

Quoting Glideslope (Reply 32):
The 380 will be a make or break airframe for Airbus. If it runs the numbers as advertised all will be well. If not, you will see Airbus start to fade away.

Very simple.

Too simple IMO
 
abba
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RE: Airbus: No More A380 Delays, No RR Engine Problems

Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:58 pm

Glideslope seems to be a desperate man.

Abba
 
MidnightMike
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RE: Airbus: No More A380 Delays, No RR Engine Problems

Sat Nov 12, 2005 11:10 pm

Quoting Glideslope (Reply 32):
The 380 will be a make or break airframe for Airbus. If it runs the numbers as advertised all will be well. If not, you will see Airbus start to fade away.

Airbus fade away? Airbus is much to large of a company to fade away like that, if the A380 does not perform as advertised, Airbus will throw money at the problem until the problem is fixed, same as Boeing.

For Airbus to fade, you would have to see a failure of the A380, A350, A400, and something like that will never happen....
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Korg747
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RE: Airbus: No More A380 Delays, No RR Engine Problems

Sun Nov 13, 2005 1:37 am

Quoting MidnightMike (Reply 37):
For Airbus to fade, you would have to see a failure of the A380, A350, A400, and something like that will never happen....

That's not enought to kill airbus, each of the A340s/330s and the A320s would have to crash one by one on a regular basis too. Airbus have proven it self with the A320 and the A340 series and I they can survive well on these two alone. I say this as a Boeing fan.

Well guys, you have to admit that designing a huge aircraft like the A380 is not as easy as designing Cessnas. You don't see Aircrafts that big roll out every day or even every year or decade. And no, the 747s is not an example of a successful aircraft from the start because the 747-400 which is the most efficient and probably the intended design of the 747 from the start, came after 30 years of trial and error that even included people's own lives. So I say the A380 is on a good roll so far and no the A380 is not designed based on 747s numbers or errors either. The A380 is a whole new whale from scratch that has the same chances of going through the history with major failure events as 747s have went through.

My opinion.
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astuteman
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RE: Airbus: No More A380 Delays, No RR Engine Problems

Sun Nov 13, 2005 2:08 am

Quoting Glideslope (Reply 32):
The 380 will be a make or break airframe for Airbus. If it runs the numbers as advertised all will be well. If not, you will see Airbus start to fade away.

Ironically, you are likely to find in about 10 years time that the A380 is a REAL cash cow for Airbus, even if they're only shifting 20 - 25 frames a year.
With no competition in its marketplace, 15% - 20% margins will be the norm. (c$40m-$50m/ frame? - not bad)

One of the reasons it will be a cash cow is that the "break" part of the programme is just about done. The money for the development is just about spent, and to date, all but $4Bn has been funded from cashflow.
Only $4bn of debt remains, directly attributable to the A380 programme ($3Bn government loans, $1Bn eurobonds at 4.75%).

Really the only part left for airbus is the "make" part.

[Edited 2005-11-12 18:33:03]