DAYflyer
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AC Chooses Genx For 787

Sat Nov 12, 2005 3:00 am

According to an article in todays Dayton Daily News, AC has selected the GE enginge for the 787. Good news for GE, they needed this one.
One Nation Under God
 
DAYflyer
Topic Author
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RE: AC Chooses Genx For 787

Sat Nov 12, 2005 3:24 am

I'm sorry it is not available in the online edition.
One Nation Under God
 
B742
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RE: AC Chooses Genx For 787

Sat Nov 12, 2005 3:33 am

Good news for GE, makes sense as their 777's will have GE's!

Rob!  wave 
 
pictues
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RE: AC Chooses Genx For 787

Sat Nov 12, 2005 3:39 am

definately not a surprise since most of Air Canada's fleet has become GE powered from PW powered, only a few PW powered aircraft left in AC's fleet.
 
A319XFW
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RE: AC Chooses Genx For 787

Sat Nov 12, 2005 3:44 am

No surprise there seeing as GE helped them out when they were in the Canadian equivalent of Chapter 11....
 
greasespot
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RE: AC Chooses Genx For 787

Sat Nov 12, 2005 3:51 am

Quoting B742 (Reply 2):
Good news for GE, makes sense as their 777's will have GE's

Why does it make sense?

They are two different engines and different parts. Therefore it will cost the same as if supporting a pratt engine.

Just because engines are made from the same company does not mean that they will share commonality and parts.

GS
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
boeingbus
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RE: AC Chooses Genx For 787

Sat Nov 12, 2005 3:59 am

Quoting Pictues (Reply 3):
definately not a surprise since most of Air Canada's fleet has become GE powered from PW powered, only a few PW powered aircraft left in AC's fleet.

Actually, the Airbus 340's are trents. So this is a loss for RR... GE probably offered a fantastic maintenance deal. Again, GE was hurting for a major customer... so, GE was most likely very aggresive with pricing.
Airbus or Boeing - it's all good to me!
 
Lumberton
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RE: AC Chooses Genx For 787

Sat Nov 12, 2005 4:01 am

Sounds like momentum is building for the GENx. AI last week, AC this week.
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
cgagn
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RE: AC Chooses Genx For 787

Sat Nov 12, 2005 4:50 am

Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 6):
Actually, the Airbus 340's are trents.

Only the 2 A345s are trents, the 343s are GE.

C-GAGN
Widebodies flown on:A330-300,A340-300,A380-800,747-400,767-200ER,767-300ER,777-200A,777-200ER,777-200LR,777-300ER,787-9
 
AA737-823
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RE: AC Chooses Genx For 787

Sat Nov 12, 2005 8:41 am

Actually, Greasespot, the GEnx is a derivative engine. It's a derivative of the GE-90, just as the GE-90-115 is, and they'll be operating both of them.
If you don't agree that the GEnx is a derivative, go spend some time in recent magazines. Aviation Maintenance comes to mind. Nice big article in there this month.

Good for GE- they needed a boost. They should have a real good engine for this aircraft, although it looks like the Roller is gonna be real strong as well.
 
ikramerica
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RE: AC Chooses Genx For 787

Sat Nov 12, 2005 8:50 am

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 9):
If you don't agree that the GEnx is a derivative, go spend some time in recent magazines. Aviation Maintenance comes to mind. Nice big article in there this month

And GE says it is. It's an application of GE90 technology into a smaller class of engines to replace those that would normally power planes like the 767 and 747, thus the application to the 787 and 747A.

While the GEnx will improve on the technology, there will be shared knowledge between them in terms of repairs and maintenance, valuable for outstations and smaller AC airports especially.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
N60659
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RE: AC Chooses Genx For 787

Sat Nov 12, 2005 9:26 am

The Flight International confirming AC's selection of the GEnx for their 787s:

http://www.flightinternational.com/A...+Canada+selects+GEnx+for+787s.html

-N60659
Nec Dextrorsum Nec Sinistrorsum
 
greasespot
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RE: AC Chooses Genx For 787

Sat Nov 12, 2005 12:14 pm

Actully in the engine world a derivative does not men similar....Take the JT8D-15 nd the -17.

The -17 is just an uprated -15....However this engine does not even share a fuel pump or FCU...

As for the costly parts of the engine such as the disks( the most expensive part of the engine) the new generation engine will have all different part numbers....and even if it is the same but has a different part number that means it cannot be used....

There for opperating two different engines even though they are from the same family is still a require sepatate support system and will not save anything over a separate company.

GS

Note : this was taken from actual experience and not from what I have read in a book or magazine...
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
phollingsworth
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RE: AC Chooses Genx For 787

Sat Nov 12, 2005 1:18 pm

quote=AA737-823,reply=9]Actually, Greasespot, the GEnx is a derivative engine. It's a derivative of the GE-90, just as the GE-90-115 is, and they'll be operating both of them.[/quote]

The GEnx is a new centerline engine. The GE90-110/115 are about the limits of what you could call a true derivative. However both of these engines are considered part of the same basic architecture (2-spool, 2-stage HPT). Of course most of this is semantics. As stated above the GEnx shares a lot with the GE90; however, there are significant changes to the core, which is why it is considered a new centerline, this causes a problem with the GE90-115 as GE cut a HPC stage out of the engine.

At this point it is very hard to differentiate the Trent from the GEnx on purely performance metrics. They each have their strengths, and will appeal to different airlines, though the performance numbers are very close (Boeing demanded this). The big differentiator is really the entire package that accompanies the engine, price, mtc. contracts, upfront payments, etc. Rolls and GE will each try to make a compelling case to the airlines, and are well past the point at which they will contractually guarantee performance.
 
NDSchu777
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RE: AC Chooses Genx For 787

Sat Nov 12, 2005 1:27 pm

This was a big win for GE. Seems that the GEnx has been picking up momentum over the last week on the 787 with wins on RAM, Air India, and now Air Canada.

I bet the joint 777/787 helped GE out. The 777's were guaranteed to have the GE90 on them. Because throwing the GEnx's in addition to the GE90's made it a huge engine order, I bet GE was able to negotiate a good deal for AC.

It's been exciting watching the A350 and 787 battle it out, but on top of that it's been interesting watching Rolls and GE fight to get on those airframes.

~Nick
 
atmx2000
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RE: AC Chooses Genx For 787

Sat Nov 12, 2005 2:13 pm

Quoting NDSchu777 (Reply 14):
It's been exciting watching the A350 and 787 battle it out, but on top of that it's been interesting watching Rolls and GE fight to get on those airframes.

I don't think it was much of a fight as PW didn't have offering that Boeing was willing to take a risk on, and Airbus went with whatever was available for the 787, though RR seems to have had to make an effort to make a bleed air A350 engine.

I wonder if we will see a 747Adv version of the RR engine. RR might be better placed to come out with a 787-10 engine with their larger core, which might have some impact on potential 747Adv customers' engine preferences.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
NDSchu777
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RE: AC Chooses Genx For 787

Sat Nov 12, 2005 2:40 pm

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 15):
I wonder if we will see a 747Adv version of the RR engine.

Boeing wanted the 747Adv to be sole source. This makes sense since Boeing isn't forecasting more than a couple hundred airplanes being sold. I'm not sure, but Boeing may have requested a risk-sharing investment in the airframe like they did on 777-300ER/200LR.

Anyway, Boeing had both Rolls and GE make proposals to get on the airframe and Boeing selected GE. I think the 747Adv is a closed deal just like the CFM is on the 737 and the GE90-115B is on the 777-200LR/300ER.

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 15):
I don't think it was much of a fight

Although not as brutal as the 3-way battle on the earlier 777's, I know what I've been hearing and seeing it's been a very tough fight on the 787. Rolls surprised everyone getting ANA, a loyal GE customer and a first-time RR customer. Then there was Northwest which initially signed an MOU for the GEnx, but then changed over to Rolls eventually. That's why this past couple weeks of announcements have been huge for GE.

And there's a few pending 787 orders coming up yet to announce their engine selection like JAL, as well as airlines like Qantas which are slated to decide between the 787 and A350 in the near future and then will make engine decisions.
 
robsawatsky
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RE: AC Chooses Genx For 787

Sat Nov 12, 2005 2:56 pm

Quoting A319XFW (Reply 4):
No surprise there seeing as GE helped them out when they were in the Canadian equivalent of Chapter 11...

GE is a huge conglomerate. The fact that GE's aircraft leasing company helped bail-out AC likely has zero bearing on the selection of engines. Probably similar to the influence the engine type has on whether GE acquires a particular aircraft for lease. The GE businesses are so diverse they can't meddle in each groups business affairs and not harm themselves.

That said, I really don't care which engine the AC has so long as it is attached to a nice, new plane.
 
raggi
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RE: AC Chooses Genx For 787

Sat Nov 12, 2005 6:05 pm

Quoting NDSchu777 (Reply 16):
Although not as brutal as the 3-way battle on the earlier 777's, I know what I've been hearing and seeing it's been a very tough fight on the 787. Rolls surprised everyone getting ANA, a loyal GE customer and a first-time RR customer.

Rolls surprised by getting ANA, but ANA did operate the L1011 with Rollers on them.


raggi
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boeing767-300
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RE: AC Chooses Genx For 787

Sat Nov 12, 2005 6:17 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 10):
And GE says it is. It's an application of GE90 technology into a smaller class of engines to replace those that would normally power planes like the 767 and 747, thus the application to the 787 and 747A.

Are we seeing the beginning of the end of the CF6 and all its derivatives?
 
Lumberton
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RE: AC Chooses Genx For 787

Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:58 pm

Quoting Boeing767-300 (Reply 19):
Are we seeing the beginning of the end of the CF6 and all its derivatives?

Not sure I understand the question...are you referring strictly to the commercial arena? Remember that USAF is re-engining it's C-5s with CF6s. Also, there are potential military contracts for more 767 frames.
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
NDSchu777
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RE: AC Chooses Genx For 787

Sun Nov 13, 2005 12:40 pm

Quoting Boeing767-300 (Reply 19):
Are we seeing the beginning of the end of the CF6 and all its derivatives?

I'd agree for the most part with that statement in that we won't be seeing any new major derivatives of the CF6 or the CF6 being placed on any brand new airframes developed.

Like Lumberton said, the C-5 re-engining program with the CF6-80C2L1F will keep production going for years to come. Not to mention, new -80C2's will be produced until Boeing closes the 767 and 747-400 lines. Also the CF6-80E's will be built until the A350 replaces the A330. On top of that there's all the aftermarket spare parts and services needed to support CF6's flying for decades.

But as we're seeing for all the brand new airplanes requiring this 55,000-75,000 lb thrust engines (787, A350, and 747Adv), GE is offering the GEnx instead of the CF6.

The end is near for the CF6 family, but it will be after a very impressive and successful stretch of about 40 years in production!
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: AC Chooses Genx For 787

Sun Nov 13, 2005 12:43 pm

Once the 737 replacement comes out, I really think a whole new CFM engine will be made, not a simple variant of the CFM56.
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NDSchu777
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RE: AC Chooses Genx For 787

Sun Nov 13, 2005 1:05 pm

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 22):
Once the 737 replacement comes out, I really think a whole new CFM engine will be made, not a simple variant of the CFM56.

Actually, CFM is looking to the future with it's LEAP56 program in researching new technology for the narrowbody market engines.

http://www.flightinternational.com/A...+of+faith+for+new+powerplant+.html

This shows that CFM is definitely committed to putting great investment in future technology to secure their strong position in that market, although there hasn't been an official launch to any new engines yet. But then again the 737-replacement is a few years from launch. It will be interesting to see what CFM and ends up doing in that market.

Between the 787, A350, A380, 747Adv, and now potential 737 and A320 replacements in the not-so-distant future, this is definitely an exciting time in the world of commercial aviation!
 
dhefty
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RE: AC Chooses Genx For 787

Sun Nov 13, 2005 1:25 pm

Quoting NDSchu777 (Reply 23):
Actually, CFM is looking to the future with it's LEAP56 program in researching new technology for the narrowbody market engines.

When GE developed the CFM56 along with SNECMA, the market was dominated by PW. GE needed a partner to share the risk and to help with marketing so they chose SNECMA (now Safran). However, the situation today is far different, with GE being the dominant producer of engines, having supplanted PW. GE no longer needs a foreign partner to be successful. I wonder if GE is thinking about a branded GE engine for the next Airbus and Boeing generation of narrow-bodied equipment? What do you think?

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