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zeke
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Large EK Order?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 3:50 am

Mates telling me an EK order of either 60x772LR or 30X772LR + 30X773ER next week at the DXB airshow.

Anyone confirm ?
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BMIFlyer
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RE: Large EK Order

Sun Nov 13, 2005 3:54 am

More planes??!!  Wow!

Jeez, they already have 45x A380, 20x A340-600HGW, 2x A340-500, 30x B777-300ER and also 3x A310F on order!!

See my Emirates - Huge Aircraft Order Backlog...! (by BMIFlyer Apr 16 2005 in Civil Aviation) thread


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Scorpio
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RE: Large EK Order?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 4:09 am

I'd count on EK announcing a big order at the Dubai Airshow, especially in the 787/A350 category. A350 is rumored to be the favorite. This could easily be a deal for 50 too.

Quoting BMIFlyer (Reply 1):
Jeez, they already have 45x A380, 20x A340-600HGW, 2x A340-500, 30x B777-300ER and also 3x A310F on order!!

Of those, the 2 A340-500s, about five 777-300ERs and one of the A310F have meanwhile been delivered.
 
Glom
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RE: Large EK Order?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 4:18 am

On a related note, are EK run by plane spotters? Why all the mixed types?
 
norcal
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RE: Large EK Order?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 4:22 am

Quoting Zeke (Thread starter):
Mates telling me an EK order of either 60x772LR or 30X772LR + 30X773ER next week at the DXB airshow

That would be an amazing order for the 772LR, but it isn't going to happen. It will 99% most likely be going to Airbus for probably 50 A350s. The EK order will guarantee that Airbus will reach the 200 mark for the A350 this year. I'm going to guess that they'll order 10 772LRs and maybe some more 773ERs.

There have been rumors that they might cancel the A346HGW, but probably not since they seem to have an insatiable demand for aircraft.

The only way Boeing can win the 787 vs A350 battle with EK is to offer the 787-10. Not going to happen seeing how Airbus recently said 200 orders again by years end.
 
Rj111
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RE: Large EK Order?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 4:31 am

I'd imagine he meant 60 A359's.
 
atmx2000
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RE: Large EK Order?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 4:35 am

Quoting Zeke (Thread starter):
Mates telling me an EK order of either 60x772LR or 30X772LR + 30X773ER next week at the DXB airshow.

I wonder if an upped 773ER order could happen with EK still taking A346s. Maybe the A346 cancellation for an A350 order is happening.

Quoting NorCal (Reply 4):
The only way Boeing can win the 787 vs A350 battle with EK is to offer the 787-10. Not going to happen seeing how Airbus recently said 200 orders again by years end.

Airbus is close enough to the 200 mark to be able to get there without the EK order.
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norcal
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RE: Large EK Order?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 4:44 am

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 6):
Airbus is close enough to the 200 mark to be able to get there without the EK order.

143 is the count right now, I think EK and SU will get them there for the year
 
B742
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RE: Large EK Order?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 4:47 am

When will the A340-600HGW's deleivies start?

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 6):
I wonder if an upped 773ER order could happen with EK still taking A346s. Maybe the A346 cancellation for an A350 order is happening.

I hope not, I would like to see another carrier operating the A340-500/600's!

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AirRyan
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RE: Large EK Order?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 4:50 am

I still fail to see where EK will ever be able to turn a profit so rapidly with such an aggressive fleet build-up. Things along the magnitude of such an order backlog as what EK has usually happen less gradually - I think EK may be biting more than they can chew.
 
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RE: Large EK Order?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 4:59 am

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 9):
I think EK may be biting more than they can chew.

Don't forget once those A350-900s or B787-10s start coming online, EK will get rid of their 777-200ERs... so it's more like one for one swap rather than adding more planes to the fleet...
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bomber996
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RE: Large EK Order?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 5:12 am

Quoting NorCal (Reply 7):
143 is the count right now, I think EK and SU will get them there for the year

Who else has ordered the A350? I know of US order for 20, but who else has. If you cant tell me then can someone link me to something that tells.

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A342
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RE: Large EK Order?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 5:20 am

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 10):
Don't forget once those A350-900s or B787-10s start coming online, EK will get rid of their 777-200ERs...

And also 772A, A343 and maybe in the long term some A332s.
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
whitehatter
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RE: Large EK Order?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 5:28 am

EK will probably emerge as a player in leasing when they cascade earlier fleet models, such as the A332, 772ER etc.

Their operation is being built and expanded constantly. The early aircraft could even go forward to become freighters as EK Cargo is a major ongoing project with the new DXB facility designed for large volumes of freight.
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bomber996
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RE: Large EK Order?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 5:38 am

Could the 777-200ER be converted into a freighter much like the 777ULF? Of course it would have a lot less range, but could it work?

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RE: Large EK Order?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 6:45 am

Quoting Bomber996 (Reply 11):
Who else has ordered the A350? I know of US order for 20, but who else has. If you cant tell me then can someone link me to something that tells.

I don't think many people will be surprised when Qatar finally sign for their 60. Yes, sixty!
 
Glom
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RE: Large EK Order?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 7:46 am

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 6):
Airbus is close enough to the 200 mark to be able to get there without the EK order.

If that's the case (meaning >260 with EK), then the 787 is a bit of a disappointment. The A350 will have sold at twice the rate in that case. What is wrong with Boeing's sales team? Supposedly, the 787 has the edge because of its new Yellowstone technology.
 
797charter
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RE: Large EK Order?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 7:55 am

Quoting NorCal (Reply 4):
That would be an amazing order for the 772LR, but it isn't going to happen. It will 99% most likely be going to Airbus for probably 50 A350s.

I think you are so right!

Quoting NorCal (Reply 4):
The only way Boeing can win the 787 vs A350 battle with EK is to offer the 787-10.

Maybe, - but the 787-10 would probably cannibalize the 772ER orderbook, - all Boing's talk about the 787-10 is just to keep Airbus busy, - and they even have to discount the A359 further because of that - very smart I may say.
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TAL727
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RE: Large EK Order?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 8:04 am

Quoting Bomber996 (Reply 11):
Who else has ordered the A350? I know of US order for 20, but who else has. If you cant tell me then can someone link me to something that tells.

Have a look at justplanes.com

Numbers for the A350 orders/ commitments:
Air Europa 10
ALAFCO 12
CIT 5
Eurofly 3
GECAS 10
Kingfisher Airlines 5
Qatar Airways 60
TAM 8

Total:113

I am not sure it is updated (US Airways orders do not appear). 200 a/c by year end looks difficult but not impossible.

Regarding the huge EK orders, if their strategy fails they can always set up an a/c leasing company  Smile

Regards,

TAL727
 
kappel
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RE: Large EK Order?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 8:21 am

http://www.airbus.com/en/aircraftfamilies/a350/index.html

add US airways for 20 and an undisclosed customer (still) for 10. That's 143.
L1011,733,734,73G,738,743,744,752,763,772,77W,DC855,DC863,DC930,DC950,MD11,MD88,306,319,320,321,343,346,ARJ85,CR7,E195
 
kaitak744
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RE: Large EK Order?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 8:24 am

My 2 cents:

Cancel A340-600s and use the deposits for A350s.
Order 777-200LRs and lease out/sell A340-500s.
Order more 777-300ERs.
 
A360
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RE: Large EK Order?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 8:46 am

Quoting Bomber996 (Reply 14):
Could the 777-200ER be converted into a freighter much like the 777ULF? Of course it would have a lot less range, but could it work?

777ULF? Lol! How many names will you people made up for that aircraft??

What will be the next? 777SuperMegaLongerExtendedRangeFreighter.... with it's might 9,195 km of range! Big grin

It's just 777F people.  Wink
(just chech boeing website and see the name of the plane.... That's right, it's 777 Freighter, or 777F)

Regards:
A360
 
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RE: Large EK Order?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 9:47 am

Quoting B742 (Reply 8):
Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 6):
I wonder if an upped 773ER order could happen with EK still taking A346s. Maybe the A346 cancellation for an A350 order is happening.


I hope not, I would like to see another carrier operating the A340-500/600's!

You already have your wish, A345s

Quoting TAL727 (Reply 18):
Qatar Airways 60

Already a big airbus operator, so no real big surprises there, but their B777 order was at Paris. US Airways is also a big Airbus operator
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atmx2000
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RE: Large EK Order?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 10:16 am

Quoting Glom (Reply 16):
If that's the case (meaning >260 with EK), then the 787 is a bit of a disappointment. The A350 will have sold at twice the rate in that case. What is wrong with Boeing's sales team? Supposedly, the 787 has the edge because of its new Yellowstone technology.

But Leahy is only saying 200, and it isn't quite so firm an assertion. I'm just saying that they could be predicting 200 without it. Anyway Boeing's delivery slots are almost filled for the first few years through beyond EIS for the A350, which one has to admit is a rather long time away for the airline industry. It's hard to imagine that aircraft orders for delivery 5 to 8 years from now won't have escape clauses so that the airline doesn't jeopardize its future if unforseen circumstances arise.

Quoting 797charter (Reply 17):
Maybe, - but the 787-10 would probably cannibalize the 772ER orderbook, - all Boing's talk about the 787-10 is just to keep Airbus busy, - and they even have to discount the A359 further because of that - very smart I may say.

The order book for the older generation 777s is less than that for the 777LRs, which is growing at a fast rate. Moreover the delivery rate for the older 777s greatly exceeds the order rate, with only 8 firm net orders+2 commitments versus 18 delivered. The order book is decreasing, and Boeing will have to respond. Morever, Boeing has never had a strong A333 competitor in the 772A, and the 787-10X would be just as much an A333/772A replacement as a 772ER/A343 replacement. That is something that favors the 787-10 introductions. I would argue it is only a matter of time, but that time is likely going to be determined by factors such ending of surge deliveries for 787-8s and 787-9s, engineering resources being available, and higher thrust engine availability.

The only alternative Boeing has is a 777 fuselage upgrade, which will involve greater R&D expenditures. On the otherhand, Boeing's peak delivery ability will be greater with both the 787 and 777 lines.

[Edited 2005-11-13 02:36:15]
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ACYWG
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RE: Large EK Order?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 12:03 pm

I can't see them ordering anything more anytime soon. I would imagine their finances must be pretty tied up enough as it is, but you never know with EK, they seem to like being the airline that nobody knows what is going to do next.
 
dhefty
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RE: Large EK Order?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 12:15 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 22):
US Airways is also a big Airbus operator

You got that right! Actually, the merged US Airways is the largest operator of Airbus aircraft in the world, with 206 in operation. Just to keep it in perspective, Air France/KLM operate 172 and Northwest is third with 170.

It's no wonder that Airbus wanted US/AW to succeed, and advanced them many $millions to help make it happen.
 
NAV20
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RE: Large EK Order?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 12:39 pm

It's hard to escape the conclusion that EK are 'speculating in delivery slots' to an extent. Provided that they have 'escape clauses' built in, or stick to 'option agreements' for a high proportion of the aircraft, they could have three options open to them in the future:-

1. If their business is growing like stink, take delivery.

2. If they don't grow as quickly as they hope, but the market for new aircraft remains strong, on-sell the delivery slots at a premium.

3. If they don't get the growth, and the market cools too, walk away.
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QFA001
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RE: Large EK Order?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 1:07 pm

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 20):
My 2 cents:

Cancel A340-600s and use the deposits for A350s.
Order 777-200LRs and lease out/sell A340-500s.
Order more 777-300ERs.

I by no means know the 100% truth, but what you said is my interpretation of what EK is about to do. Since just before the Paris Air Show, EK has been said to be on the verge of a 50+ A350 and 50+ B777 order. The A350s would supplant the A340s on order; and the B777s would, in part, replace the A340s in the EK fleet (-300/500s) and fleet plan (-600s).

Quoting NorCal (Reply 7):
143 is the count right now, I think EK and SU will get them there for the year

What about China?

 airplane QFA001
 
ikramerica
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RE: Large EK Order?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 1:20 pm

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 26):
2. If they don't grow as quickly as they hope, but the market for new aircraft remains strong, on-sell the delivery slots at a premium.

Considering how EK is into various business at this point, I can easily see EK become not only a big airline but a big leasing company as well, using it's excellent credit to offer jets to airlines with not so good credit at better rates than traditional lease big players.

It would be a great business decision, as it gets them good prices on the planes they use AND the planes they lease via large orders. And by ordering big from both airlines, they keep everyone happy and the order books full and get planes when they want them.

Wonder what happens when Y1 is offered. If EK does become a leasing company of any size, you could see an order for 300 of various sizes...  Wink

Quoting QFA001 (Reply 27):
What about China?

Doesn't it depend how you consider the word "order" when Boeing has only been able to book 1/2 the China 787s despite this order being as firm as anything on earth?

If China were to place an A350 order before the end of the year, no way they would book all the planes by then, the way China works. Will be interesting to see how Airbus decides to count them and how early.

Boeing is always very conservative about how they count things. They only count what China has booked, what CO has booked, despite knowing the others are real, as well as AC, etc.
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RE: Large EK Order?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 1:35 pm

Quoting Dhefty (Reply 25):
It's no wonder that Airbus wanted US/AW to succeed, and advanced them many $millions to help make it happen.

I'm not surprised airbus were desperate, just imange all the used A320s and A330s on the used market and how much it could hurt airbus
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mariner
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RE: Large EK Order?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 1:52 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 29):
I'm not surprised airbus were desperate,

What on earth makes you think they were "desperate"?

The deal was engineeered by GECAS - who have much, much more at stake. Airbus came in with $250 million to a help couple of old and valued customers engineer a merger.

Why was Airbus "desperate" and GECAS not?

Was PARS (Air Canada) "desperate" when they invested in the same merger?

Was Boeing "desperate" when they invested in Airtran - at around the time Airtran ordered a big bunch of Boeings?

cheers

mariner
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monteycarlos
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RE: Large EK Order?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 2:02 pm

Quoting Mariner (Reply 30):
Was Boeing "desperate" when they invested in Airtran - at around the time Airtran ordered a big bunch of Boeings?

Of course not... Boeing is never desperate.  Wink
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md90fan
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RE: Large EK Order?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 2:04 pm

Quoting BMIFlyer (Reply 1):
More planes??!!

Jeez, they already have 45x A380, 20x A340-600HGW, 2x A340-500, 30x B777-300ER and also 3x A310F on order!!

that's what I thought!! LOL  wink , are the A310F newbuilds or conversions?

Quoting TAL727 (Reply 18):
Regarding the huge EK orders, if their strategy fails they can always set up an a/c leasing company

Something like Icelandair or Lofteleir( or however its spelled)?
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RE: Large EK Order?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 2:31 pm

Quoting Mariner (Reply 30):
Quoting 777ER (Reply 29):
I'm not surprised airbus were desperate,

What on earth makes you think they were "desperate"?

The deal was engineeered by GECAS

Well I didn't know its all done via GECAS so you can now calm down Mariner
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mariner
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RE: Large EK Order?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 2:40 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 33):
Well I didn't know its all done via GECAS so you can now calm down Mariner

Not excited, nothing to calm down about. Just - puzzled.

cheers

mariner
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atmx2000
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RE: Large EK Order?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 3:11 pm

Quoting QFA001 (Reply 27):
I by no means know the 100% truth, but what you said is my interpretation of what EK is about to do. Since just before the Paris Air Show, EK has been said to be on the verge of a 50+ A350 and 50+ B777 order. The A350s would supplant the A340s on order; and the B777s would, in part, replace the A340s in the EK fleet (-300/500s) and fleet plan (-600s).

I would have to think from Boeing's perspective this would be the best thing for them. Although it would be nice for them to win the entire order with the 772LR and the 787-10X, Boeing would probably be best off if Airbus has to accept EK's cancellation of the A346HGWs and shifting of deposits to the A350. EK would then be able to place the a large combined order for 772LRs and additional 773ERs. Boeing will improve their revenue and sales in the short term by getting additional 777 orders and would reduce strain on their R&D budget by being able to delay 787-10X development and EIS. But for this to happen Boeing has to offer a credible 787-10X proposal with early enough EIS date for EK and let Airbus get wind of it.
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PlaneDane
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RE: Large EK Order?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 4:48 pm

Quoting Mariner (Reply 30):
The deal was engineeered by GECAS - who have much, much more at stake. Airbus came in with $250 million to a help couple of old and valued customers engineer a merger.

How exactly was GECAS involved in this deal at all? How would GECAS have had more at stake? What are your sources for this information?

I just do not see how this deal helped these old and valued customers at all!!
 
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RE: Large EK Order?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 5:35 pm

Quoting PlaneDane (Reply 36):
I just do not see how this deal helped these old and valued customers at all!!

Let's rephrase that to;

I just do not see how your nit-pick has helped to keep this thread on topic at all!!  Yeah sure

Given all the speculation over the year it will be interesting to see what EK do finally announce at the Dubai airshow. IMO we'll see a large A350 order and an order for a number of 777s, most likely conversion of their 9 773ER options and an order for some 772LR or 772F though I feel most of the order will go to the A350. Just my opinion.

Regards, PanAm_DC10
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CrazyHorse
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RE: Large EK Order?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 6:32 pm

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 20):
Cancel A340-600s and use the deposits for A350s.
Order 777-200LRs and lease out/sell A340-500s.
Order more 777-300ERs.

EK will not cancel their A340-600 order, because EK need the aircraft for the expanding and the A350 will come not before 2010.

EK will order 50 or 60 A350, about 10 777LR and maybe the big surprise is, that EK will order again a big number of 777-300ER.
EK is quite happy with performance of the 777-300ER and this aircraft will be available before 2008.
 
A342
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RE: Large EK Order?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 6:36 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 29):
just imange all the used A320s and A330s on the used market and how much it could hurt airbus

Hurt ? They´ll be snagged up in no time! The carriers still operating DC-10s or older 767s as well as MD-80s and B732s will need a replacement, used A320s or A330s would be a modern yet still affordable choice. Freighter conversions are also possible.
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
astuteman
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RE: Large EK Order?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 7:10 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 28):
Boeing is always very conservative about how they count things.

You make it sound like Airbus isn't. Their website is always about a month behind reality.
A
 
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mariner
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RE: Large EK Order?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 7:18 pm

Quoting PlaneDane (Reply 36):
How exactly was GECAS involved in this deal at all?

It is all in public record, I'm sorry oif you can't be bothered doing the research. I'll give you a few clues as a starting point, the rest is called Google:

http://www.fltops.com/profile.asp?ID=14

You will also see that GECAS was the prime mover in the saving of US Airways.

and reached a comprehensive aircraft leasing and financing, and engine services agreement with GE Capital Aviation Services (GECAS) and GE Engine Services, to provide short-term liquidity, reduce debt, lower aircraft ownership costs, and enhance engine maintenance services and leases for new regional jets, while preserving the vast majority of US Airways’ mainline fleet owned by GECAS.

You should note that Airbus, in February, agreed to cancel and/or defer some 65 aircraft:

In February 2005, a bankruptcy judge approved an agreement for US Airways to cancel 35 Airbus aircraft the carrier has had on order since the late 1990s. Under the accord approved by U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Stephen Mitchell, US Airways also asked Airbus to delay for one year delivery of about 30 A319 and A320 aircraft. The airline will pay about $9 million it owes Toulouse, France-based Airbus as part of the agreement.

Quoting PlaneDane (Reply 36):
How would GECAS have had more at stake?

Although GECAS agreed to take back 25 aircraft as part of the merger deal, on top of a previous 46, the fear was that US Airways would go Chapter 7 and GECAS would have been stuck with many, many more aircraft and useless leases.

Quoting PlaneDane (Reply 36):
I just do not see how this deal helped these old and valued customers at all!!

I'm sorry that you can't see how the actions of GECAS and Airbus, and thus the merger, helped to save US Airways.

But if you can't see it, I don't know how to help you..

cheers

mariner

[Edited 2005-11-13 11:29:51]

[Edited 2005-11-13 11:33:33]
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797charter
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RE: Large EK Order?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 7:25 pm

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 23):
The order book for the older generation 777s is less than that for the 777LRs, which is growing at a fast rate. Moreover the delivery rate for the older 777s greatly exceeds the order rate, with only 8 firm net orders+2 commitments versus 18 delivered. The order book is decreasing, and Boeing will have to respond. Morever, Boeing has never had a strong A333 competitor in the 772A, and the 787-10X would be just as much an A333/772A replacement as a 772ER/A343 replacement. That is something that favors the 787-10 introductions. I would argue it is only a matter of time, but that time is likely going to be determined by factors such ending of surge deliveries for 787-8s and 787-9s, engineering resources being available, and higher thrust engine availability.

You are right, - and I have not explained my opinion well enough. But I don't think the 787-10X will be launched now when the 787-8 (+787-3) is selling like hot bread - and they are struggling to raise the production rate with these to variants.
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dalecary
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Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2000 10:28 am

RE: Large EK Order?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 8:39 pm

Zeke,

I don't think your mates are too far off the mark and I would expect EK to place large orders for the A359 and the 772LR/772F/773ER at DXB airshow. I agree with QFA001, that the future of the A340 fleet at EK looks questionable. EK seem to be favouring a future 359/777/380 fleet, that gives them a fleet in which all types have a range in excess of 7500nm and a pax capacity of 300+.
This article from the Gulf News, seems to indicate that Boeing are expecting a big Airshow orders wise at DXB.

http://www.gulfnews.com/Articles/BusinessNF.asp?ArticleID=192034

Another thought: maybe the threat of the 787-10 will be enough to reduce EK's A359 commitment. From all accounts, the 787-10 hasn't yet been formally offered to airlines, but the indications are that it will be at some stage. Will EK hedge their bets here and only order 30 or so A359 and wait to see what Boeing come up with for the 787-10, or will they just order 50-60 A359 outright?
 
manni
Posts: 4049
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RE: Large EK Order?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 8:50 pm

Boeing's 48 firm orders in the MEA is part of a global orderbook involving 657 aircraft. They include six B737s for Egypt, five B787s for Morocco, four B737s for Afghanistan, three B737s for Libya, 10 B787s for Ethiopia and another 10 B787s for Angola.

Interesting article, note how they call Angola amongst other countrys Middle East in this paragraph.
SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS
 
kaitak
Posts: 8944
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 5:49 am

RE: Large EK Order?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 8:53 pm

Whatever they do, it's going to be big!

I was surprised at such a big 777 element to the EK order (although obviously we don't know yet!), but I think the key competition here will be the A359 -v- 787-10 deal.

With regard to the 340-600, these aircraft seem to be coming onstream from 2007, 3-4 years (at least) before the 359/787 can join the fleet.I don't see them cancelling these. They may opt to change them to a different model - for example, A330-300Xs, but they still need the aircraft.

There seems to be quite a few airlines in the position of needing immediate (or nearly immediate) capacity boosts. Aer Lingus's CEO Dermot Mannion was interviewed in the Irish media today (see my separate thread on this) and one of the issues raised is that while the airline is going to place a new order within the next two months, that's for 2010+, but the problem is getting new aircraft now and EI is desperately searching for new aircraft. I guess, if EK needed to, they could sell delivery slots, but it just doesn't seem to be their way of doing business. Still, a first time for everything.

Incidentally, when are EK's first 777s leaving the fleet (the very early ones)?
 
CrazyHorse
Posts: 316
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 12:16 am

RE: Large EK Order?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 9:34 pm

Quoting Dalecary (Reply 43):
I don't think your mates are too far off the mark and I would expect EK to place large orders for the A359 and the 772LR/772F/773ER at DXB airshow. I agree with QFA001, that the future of the A340 fleet at EK looks questionable. EK seem to be favouring a future 359/777/380 fleet, that gives them a fleet in which all types have a range in excess of 7500nm and a pax capacity of 300+.

I agree, I could be possible that EK sell their A340 to other airlines, when the A359 join their fleet, but today EK need the A340 for their world wide expanding.
What is with their A330 fleet? In my opinion EK need this aircraft for routes with a smaller demand or EK try to fill their aircrafts with cheap fares on this routes?

Quoting Dalecary (Reply 43):
Another thought: maybe the threat of the 787-10 will be enough to reduce EK's A359 commitment. From all accounts, the 787-10 hasn't yet been formally offered to airlines, but the indications are that it will be at some stage. Will EK hedge their bets here and only order 30 or so A359 and wait to see what Boeing come up with for the 787-10, or will they just order 50-60 A359 outright?

EK will order 50 - 60 A359 at the Dubai Air Show. If Boeing offered the 787-10 to airlines it could be possible that EK change their coming (I think so) 777-300ER order to the 787-10.
 
atmx2000
Posts: 4301
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 4:24 pm

RE: Large EK Order?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 9:42 pm

Quoting CrazyHorse (Reply 46):
EK will order 50 - 60 A359 at the Dubai Air Show. If Boeing offered the 787-10 to airlines it could be possible that EK change their coming (I think so) 777-300ER order to the 787-10.

I don't see why they would order both the 787-10 and A350. And I don't see why they would order 787-10s instead of 777-300ERs. Maybe you meant 772LR.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
boeing767-300
Posts: 621
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 11:23 pm

RE: Large EK Order?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 9:52 pm

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 45):
I was surprised at such a big 777 element to the EK order (although obviously we don't know yet!), but I think the key competition here will be the A359 -v- 787-10 deal.

With regard to the 340-600, these aircraft seem to be coming onstream from 2007, 3-4 years (at least) before the 359/787 can join the fleet.I don't see them cancelling these.

With regard to the 'Big 777 element' I will not really be suprised if this happens but will believe it when I see it.

I would not be suprised to see 787 at EK. Everybody at A.Net seems to have written off the 787 at EK. I think EK would love to cancel A346 and get more 77W. They may order some 777LR.

If EK cannot cancel A346 then I would expect 787 in response to that. EK will order more 777 (300ERs and some 200LRs).

The reason - The long range GE powered derivatives of 777 are bigger, lighter, carry more payload and further on less fuel. 777 300ER & and 777 200LR after airlines have seen performance in service have effevtively 'slaughtered' the A345 & A346. (Except for some existing carriers)

The big battle at EK for be A350 v 787 and what to do with the A346 they have ordered but don't really want.

Don't rule out 787 with GEnx engines.
 
CrazyHorse
Posts: 316
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 12:16 am

RE: Large EK Order?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 9:55 pm

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 47):
I don't see why they would order both the 787-10 and A350. And I don't see why they would order 787-10s instead of 777-300ERs. Maybe you meant 772LR.

I think EK will order the 777-300ER at the Dubai Air Show, also the 777-200LR.
But if Boeing offered the B787-10 to airlines later, it could be possible that their is a change.
The 787-10 is not a 777-300ER replacement, but the 787-10 is a newer aircraft with fuel saving technologies and so EK could save money on routes which had not so a big demand on pax and cargo.

[Edited 2005-11-13 13:57:17]

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