werdywerd
Posts: 555
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 1:40 am

Medics Not Allowed In Terminal? TSA

Mon Nov 14, 2005 9:41 am

I just witnessed the most idiotic thing ever.

An ambulance pulled up to the terminal, medic grabs all his gear to assist a patient who just arrived on a flight. He arrives at the "Exit Only" revolving doors for passengers and asks the TSA agent on duty to be let through the doors to quickly access the patient.
The TSA agent refuses him even though he is properly ID'd with a SIDA badge and is an official airport Paramedic who is in the terminal all the time.
The TSA agent starts telling him about the "Rules" and continually refuses to let him in.
More TSA agents arrive and none of them let him in either.
The only time he was let in was when the police showed up to escort him several minutes later. The medic and the TSA eventually got into a shouting match when the TSA agent began cursing at him and the Medic starting picking on what idiots TSA are and their education (which is unprofessional from both sides).

Are TSA agents really told not to let medics in during a medical emergency? What if the patient suffered greatly for this delay in attention? Would TSA be liable?

Anyone know the answer?

The medic was claiming that he goes to TSA meetings all of the time and the rules state that any properly ID'd emergency personell are to be let in during an emergency.

Was this a case of the TSA with tunnel vision regarding the rules and not using common sense?

Very weird...
 
ctbarnes
Posts: 3269
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 2:20 pm

RE: Medics Not Allowed In Terminal? TSA

Mon Nov 14, 2005 9:46 am

Odd...

Usually they drive out on to the ramp and park at the nearest gate and so should not have to pass through security. I'm not sure why they had to go through the front...

I do hope someone gets fired for this.

Charles, SJ
The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
 
werdywerd
Posts: 555
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 1:40 am

RE: Medics Not Allowed In Terminal? TSA

Mon Nov 14, 2005 9:53 am

Not sure, here at JFK anytime I see the ambulance pull up it is usually to the front of the termainal. Not sure why they do not use the ramp side.

Also, after all was said and done I overherd a TSA supervisor talking to the police that showed up and they also seemed to be in disagreement over the whole issue. The TSA seemed to be backing up her agent while the police seemed to disagree with her and walked away without finishing the conversation.
 
kaniksu
Posts: 189
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2005 12:54 pm

RE: Medics Not Allowed In Terminal? TSA

Mon Nov 14, 2005 9:54 am

The TSA is a joke. I can understand why the medic was upset.
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Posts: 20483
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: Medics Not Allowed In Terminal? TSA

Mon Nov 14, 2005 9:57 am

Don't know what airport this was at, however the TSA agent was pretty much correct.

For instance in the case of LAX, both the Los Angeles Fire Department and the on airport private paramedics (Centinela hospital) are badged for entry into restricted areas.
Even non badged off airport law enforcement cannot operate within sterile areas of the airport without going and being signed in by airport law enforcement personnel at the screening check points.

If a patient orders or requested a private ambulance transport, this needs to be also coordinated ahead of time with the airport officials so that escort access can be provided.

You need to remember acting like some sort of official is a pretty good ruse to gain access.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: Medics Not Allowed In Terminal? TSA

Mon Nov 14, 2005 9:59 am

With the media being right in the middle of "sweeps", this is something that they'd eat up....
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
Cadet57
Posts: 7174
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:02 am

RE: Medics Not Allowed In Terminal? TSA

Mon Nov 14, 2005 10:04 am

Wow the TSA is doing great on the boards this weekend.... first they let a knife throu at MCO, then we learn how slow they are, now we see they are now taking peoples lives in their hands. Thanks TSA, thanks for showing me im safer to take ill on an airplane because atleast the medics would get to me from the ramp... God forbid i get sick at checkin....

Anyidea on how the patient is doing btw?
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
werdywerd
Posts: 555
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 1:40 am

RE: Medics Not Allowed In Terminal? TSA

Mon Nov 14, 2005 10:05 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 4):
For instance in the case of LAX, both the Los Angeles Fire Department and the on airport private paramedics (Centinela hospital) are badged for entry into restricted areas.
Even non badged off airport law enforcement cannot operate within sterile areas of the airport without going and being signed in by airport law enforcement personnel at the screening check points.

This was an official Airport paramendic with security clearance. Not a private company.
 
flypdx
Posts: 603
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2005 3:19 am

RE: Medics Not Allowed In Terminal? TSA

Mon Nov 14, 2005 10:07 am

Here in PDX i've seen ambulances come up to gates and enter via the ramp, not through teh front. Don't know how it is at other airports.
 
werdywerd
Posts: 555
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 1:40 am

RE: Medics Not Allowed In Terminal? TSA

Mon Nov 14, 2005 10:08 am

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 6):
Anyidea on how the patient is doing btw?

Nope, never got a chance to see or find out.

I'm not trying to put down the TSA as a whole in any way, just the judgement call of that ONE agent.
I understand that a "terrorist" could pose as a medic and all, but the SIDA badges have about 7 or 8 security features hidden on it that one could tell if it were a forgery easily if they knew what they were looking for.

Also, i've seen many medics get through the doors daily with no incident. This was the first time that I have seen them refused entry.
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Posts: 20483
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: Medics Not Allowed In Terminal? TSA

Mon Nov 14, 2005 10:11 am

Quoting Werdywerd (Reply 7):
This was an official Airport paramendic with security clearance.

Well if he was properly SIDA badged should be able to proceed thru the check point.
I have however seen instances were off airport emergency responders have had to wait to receive an escort as they are not properly badged.



Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 6):
God forbid i get sick at checkin....

Dont worry, the lobby is a public area. They would get to you faster without any hastle regarding IDs.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
HPRamper
Posts: 4633
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 4:22 am

RE: Medics Not Allowed In Terminal? TSA

Mon Nov 14, 2005 10:54 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 4):
Don't know what airport this was at, however the TSA agent was pretty much correct.

For instance in the case of LAX, both the Los Angeles Fire Department and the on airport private paramedics (Centinela hospital) are badged for entry into restricted areas.
Even non badged off airport law enforcement cannot operate within sterile areas of the airport without going and being signed in by airport law enforcement personnel at the screening check points.



Quoting Werdywerd (Thread starter):
The TSA agent refuses him even though he is properly ID'd with a SIDA badge and is an official airport Paramedic who is in the terminal all the time.

He just said the guy was badged. All it takes is a quick glance to see if the badge is real, then wave him on through. What's next, retinal scans?
 
acidradio
Crew
Posts: 1595
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2001 3:19 pm

RE: Medics Not Allowed In Terminal? TSA

Mon Nov 14, 2005 11:40 am

Another example of the TSA feeling inadequate (gee, they remind me of dealing with incompetent mail carriers), so they take it out on someone who has an actual job to do. Whether it be businessmen trying to get to flights, public safety personnel, airline personnel...

Fortunately, the TSA's I've encountered around here have been professional and competent, but I hear all these horror stories from elsewhere!
Ich haben zwei Platzspielen und ein Microphone
 
zephyr98
Posts: 81
Joined: Sun May 16, 2004 9:24 am

RE: Medics Not Allowed In Terminal? TSA

Mon Nov 14, 2005 12:28 pm

Werdywerd, how big of an airport is this ? In Reno our Fire/Medics are inside the SIDA area, so they have immediate access to the gate for our medical emergencies. If an "off site" ambulance is required to transport the patient, they are escorted in to the gate by the Airport Police. If this is a very small airport, I can see the Medics accessing the gate from outside, and those TSA agents should have let the Medic with SIDA badge through. I have had several run ins with TSA myself, one of which when they wanted to search a 3 year old airline employee's child...when I pulled up "THEIR" Tsa's rules and showed him that the child was exempt, he demanded to call his Supervisors....they showed up and gave him hell. I am a GSC Ground Security Coordinator for my airline, and keep up daily on the new changes, much better than most of their agents !!! TSA, sadly has been employing some of the biggest idiots on the planet (wastes of perfectly good oxygen), however there are TSA agents that do a very good job as well.
Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints...
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: Medics Not Allowed In Terminal? TSA

Mon Nov 14, 2005 12:41 pm

More bullshit from the TSA . . .

If the patient suffered any long term effects, sue the pants off the idiots. Sooner we all band together and relieve ourselves of the morons that are the TSA the better.

Wonder what CVG the Wonder TSA Widget has to say?

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 5):
With the media being right in the middle of "sweeps", this is something that they'd eat up....

Yeah, but they'd have to have some third string reporter that had no desire to ever fly agian because the TSA assholes will for sure put that person on the no fly list . . .

A short TSA story . . . about just how dmaned stupid they are . . . I've told it before, I'm gonna tell it again.

The CHIEF of the Alaska State Troopers arrives at a rural Alaska airport, to board a plane to Anchorage. She is IN uniform. The TSA moron refused to allow her through screening with a knife . . . this is the same knife hanging on her gun belt - RIGHT NEXT TO HER LOADED WEAPON!!!

Yup, I sure feel safe with the idiots out there . . . .

Quoting Zephyr98 (Reply 13):
however there are TSA agents that do a very good job as well.

 spit 
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
User avatar
HAWK21M
Posts: 29929
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

RE: Medics Not Allowed In Terminal? TSA

Mon Nov 14, 2005 1:39 pm

Out here....
The Medic would have been allowed with Escort.Just in case.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
ikramerica
Posts: 13808
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: Medics Not Allowed In Terminal? TSA

Mon Nov 14, 2005 1:49 pm

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 4):
You need to remember acting like some sort of official is a pretty good ruse to gain access.

It is one of the most COMMON ways to get into secure areas, and it happens all the time. The poster does not know the full details and whether the medic actually had the correct ID to get through without checking in first. He's just guessing that is the case.

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 15):
The Medic would have been allowed with Escort.Just in case.

And that's what happened. Police showed up, escorted the medic.

Werdy, was this JFK? It's unclear from your posts, but I assume so.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Medics Not Allowed In Terminal? TSA

Mon Nov 14, 2005 1:50 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 14):
the patient suffered any long term effects, sue the pants off the idiots

You can't sue the feds without their consent, which means that they are effectively untouchable, and why they all have the little hitler syndrome.

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 15):
The Medic would have been allowed with Escort

1st reponders at ANC and FAI would have been airport police, who rotate between police and fire/rescue duties. So I do't think there would have been half the issue here, besides they would have gone in the back door.

I do know that when the TSA first came around my med-evac crews did have issues in Fairbanks moving pts through gate 1 up there, where we used to park.

I think we ended up parking on Guardian's ramp becausee the stupidity became too much.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
SPREE34
Posts: 1574
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 6:09 am

RE: Medics Not Allowed In Terminal? TSA

Tue Nov 15, 2005 3:27 am

Quoting Kaniksu (Reply 3):
The TSA is a joke. I can understand why the medic was upset.

Too bad this truth is ignored constantly.
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
 
werdywerd
Posts: 555
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 1:40 am

RE: Medics Not Allowed In Terminal? TSA

Tue Nov 15, 2005 4:37 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 16):
It is one of the most COMMON ways to get into secure areas, and it happens all the time. The poster does not know the full details and whether the medic actually had the correct ID to get through without checking in first. He's just guessing that is the case.

I'm not guessing, he had the proper AOA access SIDA badge. I was standing 2 feet from him trying to see if I could assist in any way but was turned away. The same one the police, myself and everyone with AOA access has.

Yes this was at JFK.
 
n757kw
Posts: 395
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 3:08 am

RE: Medics Not Allowed In Terminal? TSA

Tue Nov 15, 2005 7:05 am

Here in ATL we have paramedics on the SIDA provided by the City of Atlanta.

For Atlanta, if want to access the SIDA as an employee you must use an access point were your SIDA badge can be scanned. I think the exception to this is if you work within the SIDA in the passenger areas.

N757KW
"What we've got here, is failure to communicate." from Cool Hand Luke
 
symphonik
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2005 8:52 am

RE: Medics Not Allowed In Terminal? TSA

Tue Nov 15, 2005 7:23 am

Quoting Werdywerd (Thread starter):
the Medic starting picking on what idiots TSA are and their education

Precisely!

Look at who is getting hired for this supposedly important job!
 
USAIRWAYS321
Posts: 1707
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 4:31 pm

RE: Medics Not Allowed In Terminal? TSA

Tue Nov 15, 2005 7:39 am

Quoting Werdywerd (Thread starter):
the Medic starting picking on what idiots TSA are and their education (which is unprofessional from both sides).

Unprofessional, perhaps, but a fully legitimate and valid point. The morons we have protecting the skies would have a hard time getting hired as a Wal-Mart checker.
 
phljjs
Posts: 296
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 7:26 am

RE: Medics Not Allowed In Terminal? TSA

Tue Nov 15, 2005 9:17 am

Just having a SIDA badge does not let you into the sterile area without screening.
LEO's and and persons exempt from screening will have specific markings on their badges that let TSA know they are excempt. Paramedic's badges do not have such markings. If they need to enter the sterile area, they do so from the ramp and employee access doors or if by nature of the emergency or its location, they need to enter through the checkpoint, they will receive police escort. Usually, the police will meet them at the checkpoint and escort them to the patient and then stay with them until they leave the sterile area. What seems to have happened is that the medics had SIDA badges showing they were aiport employees but not exempt from screening and the police escort had not shown up at the checkpoint yet. Medics entering through the checkpoint happens at PHL all the time and there is never a problem. The dispatcher automatically sends an officer to the checkpoint and an officer to assist the patient and if the medics need to "bypass" a checkpoint, the officer will escort them in. In my opinion, medics and firefighters should receive badges with the excemption markings so that there won't be any problems and should an event such as this arises, a LEO won't be taken away from thier regular duty to be a babysitter for the medics.
 
N766UA
Posts: 7843
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 1999 3:50 am

RE: Medics Not Allowed In Terminal? TSA

Tue Nov 15, 2005 9:48 am

What's he doing going through security? Airport fire depts. just go to the nearest gate/office/stairway/etc. and walk right into the terminal.
This Website Censors Me
 
phljjs
Posts: 296
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 7:26 am

RE: Medics Not Allowed In Terminal? TSA

Tue Nov 15, 2005 10:09 am

Quoting N766UA (Reply 24):

It happens sometimes. Depends on the situation and the medics location when the call comes in. I remember a few months ago at PHL, a man had a heart attack at the ticket counter in terminal B. The medics responded from the firehouse, parked the ambulance on the ramp and exited the sterile area to treat the patient. When it was time to transport him to the hospital, the 2 medics, 2 fireman, and 4 police officers brought the man and his wife to the exit lane. The man was on a stretcher and a fireman was performing cpr on him as they were all running towards the exit. Of course since this was an obvious emergency and the group was being escorted by the police, they were allowed to proceed through the exit lane and to the freight elevator and down to the waiting ambulance. The man's wife was even allowed to proceed with the group and bypass screening since she was now considered under protective escort of the airport police.
 
VonRichtofen
Posts: 4270
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2000 3:10 am

RE: Medics Not Allowed In Terminal? TSA

Tue Nov 15, 2005 10:17 am

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 11):
What's next, retinal scans?

Here at YYC we have our retinas scanned at checkpoints (no joke).

So it's coming soon lol

Kris
 
lastordu
Posts: 365
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 11:14 am

RE: Medics Not Allowed In Terminal? TSA

Tue Nov 15, 2005 10:53 am

Quoting USAIRWAYS321 (Reply 22):
The morons we have protecting the skies would have a hard time getting hired as a Wal-Mart checker.

Why do you think they work for the TSA? I was going to say for the government but I dad dose work for the government and he has a PhD.

Nick
"Remember, Remember the 5th of November" from V for Vendetta
 
777ER
Crew
Posts: 9875
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 5:04 pm

RE: Medics Not Allowed In Terminal? TSA

Tue Nov 15, 2005 4:30 pm

What happened to the TSA being broken up? The sooner it happenes then the better it will be.

In New Zealand the Paremedics go throu the airside gates and escorted by Aviation Secuirty Officers and park at the closest gate, or if its easier and closer then the ambulance will park at the drop off/pick up only zone, same with fire and police.
Head Forum Moderator
moderators@airliners.net for all Moderator contact
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Medics Not Allowed In Terminal? TSA

Tue Nov 15, 2005 4:43 pm

Quoting PHLJJS (Reply 23):
Just having a SIDA badge does not let you into the sterile area without screening

What a crock of horseshit.

Sorry for the language but it is.

The SIDA is by definition a secure/sterile area...which is why you have to wear the badges in the first place.

Again more of the same stupidity brought to you by the federal goverment.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos