aeropiggot
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A380 Wake Turbulence Data Are In

Tue Nov 15, 2005 6:09 am

Fellow A-netters,
Reference (ICAO report "Wake Vortex aspects of the Airbus A380 aircraft" 11/10/2005: T 13/3-05-0661.SLG) Preliminary data from A380 wake turbulence test are in, and it looks like Airbus predictions are totally outside the ball park with regards to the A380 wake. Flight test data shows that the A380 wake vortices will descend further and are significantly stronger at 1000ft (300m) below the generation altitude than for any other aircraft in its weight category (747 etc). On occasions the A380 wake vortices may descend 2000ft (600M) below the aircraft and pose possible passenger comfort issues, but not a hazard.

Initial ICAO guidance is as follows:
1) one additional min to be added to all separations, when the A380 is the leading aircraft.
2) Horizontal spacing on final approach to be no less than 10 NM between A380 and following aircraft.
3) vertical spacing to be no less than 2000ft when following behind the A380.


I believe that the A380 regulations will clearly exceed the current 747-400 ones. So what happen to Airbus predictions of 747 like or better wake vortex performance, and what will the existing A380 customers say about these new regulations for their aircraft. What will be the impact on airport operations?
A scientist discovers that which exists, an engineer creates that which never was.
 
N79969
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RE: A380 Wake Turbulence Data Are In

Tue Nov 15, 2005 6:14 am

Quoting AeroPiggot (Thread starter):
one additional min to be added to all separations, when the A380 is the leading aircraft.
2) Horizontal spacing on final approach to be no less than 10 NM between A380 and following aircraft.

This could complicate air traffic control at certain airports pretty seriously. If I recall correctly, the horizontal separation between a 747 and trailing aircraft is 6NM.
 
cloudyapple
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RE: A380 Wake Turbulence Data Are In

Tue Nov 15, 2005 6:21 am

Quoting AeroPiggot (Thread starter):
1) one additional min to be added to all separations, when the A380 is the leading aircraft.
2) Horizontal spacing on final approach to be no less than 10 NM between A380 and following aircraft.
3) vertical spacing to be no less than 2000ft when following behind the A380.

A lot worse than our predictions but not unexpected.

I suppose 1 is for departure spacing and 2 for arrival spacing.

I can say categorically it is going to be a pain to work it as an air traffic controller. If 10Nm is the case for every A380 arrival you lose up to 3 other slots (2.5Nm). It actually reduces capacity at congested airports like Heathrow. One way round is to TEAM the A380 onto the departure runway. But that adds complications for the GMC. No workaround but reduce capacity on mixed mode airports though.

It will also be a pain to work it enroute for the requirements in vertical separations.

[Edited 2005-11-14 22:26:08]
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aeropiggot
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RE: A380 Wake Turbulence Data Are In

Tue Nov 15, 2005 6:22 am

Quote:
N799969: This could complicate air traffic control at certain airports pretty seriously. If I recall correctly, the horizontal separation between a 747 and trailing aircraft is 6NM.

Very interesting indeed, what happen to the Airbus prediction of vortex strength below the 747 due to exotic control surface manipulations??

The airports could end up charging significantly increased landing fees for A380 operators?
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md80fanatic
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RE: A380 Wake Turbulence Data Are In

Tue Nov 15, 2005 6:24 am

I figured that was the cause of the deformed exhaust trails in the "contrail" pic, posted yesterday, but I did not want to start another war.

Big plane = Big wake .... it's physics.
 
N79969
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RE: A380 Wake Turbulence Data Are In

Tue Nov 15, 2005 6:24 am

Quoting Cloudyapple (Reply 2):
It actually reduces capacity at congested airports like Heathrow.

That's true and that could be a serious problem especially at LHR. I am sure the Narita airport authority will not be thrilled either. What is the sensible and fair way of dealing with that effect?
 
BlueSky1976
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RE: A380 Wake Turbulence Data Are In

Tue Nov 15, 2005 6:25 am

Bigger plane = bigger wake. How is the A380 wake compare to the wake of, say, An-124? Are there any special approach/departure separations for that plane?

Also, how much trouble would it be to do a side-by-side landing/approach of two A380s provided that the airport is capable of sucha operation?
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GBan
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RE: A380 Wake Turbulence Data Are In

Tue Nov 15, 2005 6:26 am

Quoting AeroPiggot (Thread starter):
Reference (ICAO report "Wake Vortex aspects of the Airbus A380 aircraft" 11/10/2005: T 13/3-05-0661.SLG)

Is this a public report? I fail to find it on the ICAO website.

[Edited 2005-11-14 22:28:07]
 
airxliban
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RE: A380 Wake Turbulence Data Are In

Tue Nov 15, 2005 6:27 am

Quoting AeroPiggot (Thread starter):
1) one additional min to be added to all separations, when the A380 is the leading aircraft.
2) Horizontal spacing on final approach to be no less than 10 NM between A380 and following aircraft.

Oh dear oh dear. What a pain in the @$$...now we're going to be experiencing delays whenever the whale jet is due to land or take off. Nightmare...
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BlueSky1976
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RE: A380 Wake Turbulence Data Are In

Tue Nov 15, 2005 6:30 am

Quoting N79969 (Reply 5):
What is the sensible and fair way of dealing with that effect?

My guess would be to allow A380 landing followed by two takeoff operations from the same runway A380 is landing on, once the runway is cleared. This way there would be enough separation Between the A380 landing and the next plane on approach without constraining the flow of operations at given airport...
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AirPacific747
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RE: A380 Wake Turbulence Data Are In

Tue Nov 15, 2005 6:31 am

Can anyone provide us with the exact 747 data? It would be interesting to compare these two aircraft.
 
N79969
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RE: A380 Wake Turbulence Data Are In

Tue Nov 15, 2005 6:31 am

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 6):
Bigger plane = bigger wake.

Fair enough. But if traffic separations have to be increased by 66% to accomodate A380s, that poses a serious problem for congested airports particularly those that expect to have multiple A380 flights per day. It may also require modifications to terminal airspace and procedures.
 
StuckInCA
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RE: A380 Wake Turbulence Data Are In

Tue Nov 15, 2005 6:37 am

Quoting AeroPiggot (Thread starter):
Initial ICAO guidance is as follows:

Is that 1 additional minute on top of the separation currently used for 747's?

Is this a very conservative initial guidance which will likely be eased later in service?
 
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chrisnh
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RE: A380 Wake Turbulence Data Are In

Tue Nov 15, 2005 6:37 am

NOTAM: "All aircraft departing BOS Logan are required to hold on taxiway pending takeoff of heavy A380 in Australia. Wake advisory."

 duck 
 
Sabena332
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RE: A380 Wake Turbulence Data Are In

Tue Nov 15, 2005 6:39 am

Quoting GBan (Reply 7):
Is this a public report? I fail to find it on the ICAO website.

I don't know if it is public already. I got the report on Satuday evening and it is indeed like already written in the thread starter.

Patrick
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Ken777
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RE: A380 Wake Turbulence Data Are In

Tue Nov 15, 2005 6:40 am

If this is a serious problem for airports like LHR you will see significant increases in landing fees and/or changes in the time slots when the 380 can land or take off.

It appears that Airbus has some work to do.
 
aeropiggot
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RE: A380 Wake Turbulence Data Are In

Tue Nov 15, 2005 6:40 am

Quote:
GBan: Is this a public report? I fail to find it on the ICAO website

The report is just been made public, but not yet on the ICAO web site. Hopefully we should see or hear something about it this week.
A scientist discovers that which exists, an engineer creates that which never was.
 
N79969
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RE: A380 Wake Turbulence Data Are In

Tue Nov 15, 2005 6:40 am

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 9):
My guess would be to allow A380 landing followed by two takeoff operations from the same runway A380 is landing on, once the runway is cleared.

At airports with parallel runways, they often dedicate runways for takeoffs or landings for a period of time. A 10 NM separation would really screw up a place like Narita which only has one runway suitable for the A380, B747, and other intercontinental flights.

You have take into account the effects of compression that occurs as an aircraft slows and lands while trailing aircraft maintain minimum separations.

The solutions that come to mind are blunt:

1. Force A380 operations into particular time bands to minimize disruption.

2. Add additional surcharges for A380 flights to account for capacity loss

3. Require that airlines have two slots for one A380 flight if they choose to upgauge from a smaller airplane.

None of these are particularly palatable but #2 seems to be the least crude.
 
cloudyapple
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RE: A380 Wake Turbulence Data Are In

Tue Nov 15, 2005 6:41 am

Just hang on for a bit before we slag it off any more. They maybe able to add bits to the wing fences to change the wv characteristics on the production version.
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trent900
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RE: A380 Wake Turbulence Data Are In

Tue Nov 15, 2005 6:54 am

It'll certainly be interesting to see what Airbus has to say about this. They did seem confident it would be no greater then a 747's wake. Could they demand a re-test?

D.
 
N79969
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RE: A380 Wake Turbulence Data Are In

Tue Nov 15, 2005 6:56 am

Quoting Cloudyapple (Reply 18):
They maybe able to add bits to the wing fences to change the wv characteristics on the production version.

That's no easy solution either. It would set back their delivery schedule if they have to go back to the wind tunnel, design modifications, and redo any completed certification testing. If you change the wing, it could change the flying characteristics of the airplane in many ways.

[Edited 2005-11-14 23:10:17]
 
A350
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RE: A380 Wake Turbulence Data Are In

Tue Nov 15, 2005 7:07 am

I fail to understand how so large differences between wind tunnel experiments and reality can occur. Sure, the wind tunnel experiment is a scaled down model, but I'm convinced they have done a decent work at it. Perhaps the WhaleJet will end up with winglets as ugly as those of the 737NG  confused 

A350
 
cloudyapple
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RE: A380 Wake Turbulence Data Are In

Tue Nov 15, 2005 7:11 am

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 12):
Is that 1 additional minute on top of the separation currently used for 747's?

No. Departure separations are rather complicated. It's time based. Most types are 1min apart when a left turner is followered by a right turner or vv. Same direction SIDs are usually 2min. Anything smaller than a heavy following a heavy can add 30s to 1min to the separation. But then you also have to take into account of performance, eg props and jets, to make sure they wont catch up with each other.

Arrival separations are distance based in Nm and are much simpler. We have a 5x5 matrix of WV categories/separations. So medium/medium is always 3Nm (or 2.5Nm on a good day) etc. No exceptions. Well except the Concordes...
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milan320
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RE: A380 Wake Turbulence Data Are In

Tue Nov 15, 2005 7:19 am

So what! If it reduces the amount of traffic by taking on more passengers, then that's good. What's one minute anyway?  Wink
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StuckInCA
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RE: A380 Wake Turbulence Data Are In

Tue Nov 15, 2005 7:19 am

Quoting Cloudyapple (Reply 22):

Thanks for the detailed reply.
 
Glom
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RE: A380 Wake Turbulence Data Are In

Tue Nov 15, 2005 7:21 am

If they soup up the wing fences, what will this mean for certification, schedule etc?
 
cloudyapple
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RE: A380 Wake Turbulence Data Are In

Tue Nov 15, 2005 7:25 am

Quoting Milan320 (Reply 23):
What's one minute anyway?

1 minute departure separation, time lag between 2 departures.

So whoever departing behind the A380 will need 1 extra minute on top of whatever it should have been by today's standards behind a heavy.
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ikramerica
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RE: A380 Wake Turbulence Data Are In

Tue Nov 15, 2005 7:26 am

Quoting N79969 (Reply 17):
2. Add additional surcharges for A380 flights to account for capacity loss

Not exactly a great "hub-hub" aircraft if a 50% increase in capacity inside creates a 66% negative impact in capacity on the outside. Hopefully this can be reduced, but it demonstrates that the net effect of A380s at an airport might be a ZERO sum, meaning it won't bring more pax into a slot limited airport in any meaningful way, which was the promise.

2 789s = 1 A388 seems to be a formula that is becoming more and more true, taking into account price, capacity, slot spacing, etc.

Quoting Cloudyapple (Reply 18):
Just hang on for a bit before we slag it off any more. They maybe able to add bits to the wing fences to change the wv characteristics on the production version.

I hope something can be done, and possibly retrofitted to the earlier A380s being built for delivery. I would assume that once ALL A380s are retrofitted and new builds have a modified design, a different standard can be used, but not until then.

Giant wings and 4 powerful engines are going to create a big vortex. There's just no two ways about that.

Quoting A350 (Reply 21):
I fail to understand how so large differences between wind tunnel experiments and reality can occur.

Ask Boeing. They had similar issues with the 757, and it was only later that the standard was revised for the 757 to compensate, which is probably, as I stated in another thread a while back, why the A380 is going to get some conservative initial certifications until it can prove itself.

If a 757 can bring down corporate jets with wake vortex, then an A380 could easily bring down a 737/A320 if the agencies aren't careful.
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NYC777
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RE: A380 Wake Turbulence Data Are In

Tue Nov 15, 2005 7:28 am

Boy Airbus has a lot of 'splaining to do.I don't think operators particularly SQ and QF are going to be pleased. EK will probably just build a A380 dedicated runway 10 miles from the terminal.  Big grin
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StuckInCA
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RE: A380 Wake Turbulence Data Are In

Tue Nov 15, 2005 7:35 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 27):
Not exactly a great "hub-hub" aircraft if a 50% increase in capacity inside creates a 66% negative impact in capacity on the outside

Isn't what you're implying here only even possibly the case if the only factor in airport capacity were runway slots (Nothing to do with gates, etc)? Is this the case at some or many airports? Forgive me if this is a stupid question, just trying to figure out the potential implications.
 
airfrnt
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RE: A380 Wake Turbulence Data Are In

Tue Nov 15, 2005 7:38 am

Quoting Cloudyapple (Reply 2):
I can say categorically it is going to be a pain to work it as an air traffic controller. If 10Nm is the case for every A380 arrival you lose up to 3 other slots (2.5Nm). It actually reduces capacity at congested airports like Heathrow. One way round is to TEAM the A380 onto the departure runway. But that adds complications for the GMC. No workaround but reduce capacity on mixed mode airports though.

Can anyone confirm these numbers? If so this will be a huge hit at airports like NRT, LHR, JFK (in short, the only airports that the A380 would make sense at in the first place).

10NM was the initial setting for the wake turbulance behind a 747. It was racheted down as the 747 proved that the results were less catostrophic.

Has anyone heard anything about the 757 and wake turbulance? A pilot I talked too once felt that this was a major reason the 757 was not more successful.
 
Glom
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RE: A380 Wake Turbulence Data Are In

Tue Nov 15, 2005 7:39 am

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 29):
Isn't what you're implying here only even possibly the case if the only factor in airport capacity were runway slots (Nothing to do with gates, etc)?

This does cause concern for availability of runways slots rather than ground capacity, but target airports such as LHR aren't suffering from a major ground capacity shortage, not with T5 soon to arrive and hopefully a better T2 on RWY23, but rather runway slots are in desperate demand.
 
PPVRA
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RE: A380 Wake Turbulence Data Are In

Tue Nov 15, 2005 7:53 am

What if Airbus managed to reduce some weight? Wouldn't that have some impact on the vortex (less power on the engines)?

Easier said than done I guess, but it's one thing they could do.

Cheers
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WAH64D
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RE: A380 Wake Turbulence Data Are In

Tue Nov 15, 2005 7:56 am

Quoting AeroPiggot (Thread starter):

2) Horizontal spacing on final approach to be no less than 10 NM between A380 and following aircraft.
3) vertical spacing to be no less than 2000ft when following behind the A380.

This could be a problem!

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 9):
My guess would be to allow A380 landing followed by two takeoff operations from the same runway A380 is landing on, once the runway is cleared. This way there would be enough separation Between the A380 landing and the next plane on approach without constraining the flow of operations at given airport...

This is a very good idea. It would not be feasible at airports like LHR though as the runways are too close to each other to allow simultaneous approaches. To minimise disruption at busy airports you'd have to land this aircraft on the departure runway. The problem at LHR is that even if this is the case, you still can't land anything on the arrival runway at the same time.
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airfrnt
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RE: A380 Wake Turbulence Data Are In

Tue Nov 15, 2005 7:58 am

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 32):
What if Airbus managed to reduce some weight? Wouldn't that have some impact on the vortex (less power on the engines)?

Easier said than done I guess, but it's one thing they could do.

It's not the details, it's the fundamentals. You would have to reduce the weight of the plane by a good 13-20 percent (as I understand it, Wake is increased by weight but decreased by wingspan) to make the wake profile look similar to a 747.
 
ikramerica
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RE: A380 Wake Turbulence Data Are In

Tue Nov 15, 2005 8:09 am

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 29):
Is this the case at some or many airports?

In most cases, slot restriction is due to runways and curfews, not gate space.

Quoting Glom (Reply 31):
This does cause concern for availability of runways slots rather than ground capacity, but target airports such as LHR aren't suffering from a major ground capacity shortage, not with T5 soon to arrive and hopefully a better T2 on RWY23, but rather runway slots are in desperate demand.

exactly. it is not too difficult to build additional gates as new terminals are not on the fringes impinging on the neighbors. but adding additional runways is hard, so that's where the slotting comes in.

there are some smaller airports that have master plans that limit GATE space, in order to put an artificial cap on departures and arrivals even though the runways could handle more. But the big international hubs are not restricted in this way.

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 34):
It's not the details, it's the fundamentals. You would have to reduce the weight of the plane by a good 13-20 percent (as I understand it, Wake is increased by weight but decreased by wingspan) to make the wake profile look similar to a 747.

Hello composite A380NG!!!  Wink

Or maybe the 2015 Boeing Y3, composite, big, but environmentally "friendly." One reason Boeing is holding off on a real "challenger" is that they know that the technology of today is still limiting but 5 years from now, they can start work on a plane that will enter the market when demand really starts to pick up for larger planes and technology will allow them to be lighter and more efficient.

Wonder if two HUGE engines and two Boeing style wings on a composite Y3 will have a much lower wake profile than 4 merely BIG engines on a larger, Airbus wing with the A380. And what will this mean to the as of yet not launched A380-900 and A380-800HGW?

Airbus better find a way to fix this, and fast...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
cloudyapple
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RE: A380 Wake Turbulence Data Are In

Tue Nov 15, 2005 8:15 am

Quoting WAH64D (Reply 33):
This is a very good idea. It would not be feasible at airports like LHR though as the runways are too close to each other to allow simultaneous approaches.

We can do limited mixed mode at Heathrow (up to 6 an hour) in the form of TEAMing (tactically enhanced arrivals managment) in special circumstances or when stack delay > a threshold. It was my suggestion to TEAM (see my posts above) those A380s but it only works when 27R is the arrival runway since (at least) A380s can only use the southern runway. Considering they will all be coming in from Asia probably between 4-6am that should be a viable solution as we are TEAMing every morning anyway.

I suspect 10Nm is a super conservative guideline to start with just to be on the safe side. It should reduce to perhaps heavy +1 or +2 as we collect and analyse actual operational data.

Same for departures.
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airfrnt
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RE: A380 Wake Turbulence Data Are In

Tue Nov 15, 2005 8:18 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 35):
Wonder if two HUGE engines and two Boeing style wings on a composite Y3 will have a much lower wake profile than 4 merely BIG engines on a larger, Airbus wing with the A380. And what will this mean to the as of yet not launched A380-900 and A380-800HGW?

Ignoring the issues of the engines for a second, as I understand it, that's backwards. Bigger wings decrease wake.
 
cloudyapple
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RE: A380 Wake Turbulence Data Are In

Tue Nov 15, 2005 8:20 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 35):
Wonder if two HUGE engines and two Boeing style wings on a composite Y3 will have a much lower wake profile than 4 merely BIG engines on a larger, Airbus wing with the A380

Except that the engines have nothing to do with wake. It's a by product of lift production, a fucntion of weight and span.
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PPVRA
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RE: A380 Wake Turbulence Data Are In

Tue Nov 15, 2005 8:20 am

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 34):
It's not the details, it's the fundamentals. You would have to reduce the weight of the plane by a good 13-20 percent (as I understand it, Wake is increased by weight but decreased by wingspan) to make the wake profile look similar to a 747.

True. But at least is something they can look at, at least as part of the whole thing.

What about blended wingtips, a la B777?

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 35):

Hello composite A380NG!!! Wink

My thoughts exactly Big grin

But it would cost too much.

Cheers
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BoomBoom
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RE: A380 Wake Turbulence Data Are In

Tue Nov 15, 2005 8:28 am

Quoting A350 (Reply 21):
WhaleJet will end up with winglets as ugly as those of the 737NG

That would be an improvement over those ugly Airbus wing fences. Big grin
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zeke
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RE: A380 Wake Turbulence Data Are In

Tue Nov 15, 2005 8:36 am

Quoting AeroPiggot (Thread starter):
ICAO report

Seems strange to me, ICAO is a standards organisation, not a certification organisation.....European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) and the FAA are the A380 certification organisations.

How does ICAO get the data if they are not involved in the certification process ?
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Glom
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RE: A380 Wake Turbulence Data Are In

Tue Nov 15, 2005 8:40 am

Quoting Zeke (Reply 41):
Seems strange to me, ICAO is a standards organisation, not a certification organisation

ICAO do publish guidelines of wake turbulence seperation. The final say goes to the applicable regulating body of course.
 
astuteman
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RE: A380 Wake Turbulence Data Are In

Tue Nov 15, 2005 8:51 am

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 34):
(as I understand it, Wake is increased by weight but decreased by wingspan)

Hence the HUGE wings.... (Interestingly, A engineers wanted to make the wings even bigger - now we know why  Wink)

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 30):
10NM was the initial setting for the wake turbulance behind a 747. It was racheted down as the 747 proved that the results were less catostrophic.



Quoting Cloudyapple (Reply 36):
I suspect 10Nm is a super conservative guideline to start with just to be on the safe side. It should reduce to perhaps heavy +1 or +2 as we collect and analyse actual operational data.

I wonder if this is Round 1 of an iterative process?
 
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zeke
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RE: A380 Wake Turbulence Data Are In

Tue Nov 15, 2005 8:55 am

Quoting Glom (Reply 42):
ICAO do publish guidelines of wake turbulence seperation.

Yes from memeory this is in ICAO doc 666, Air Traffic Control, its a standards document. My question still stands, "How does ICAO get the data if they are not involved in the certification process ?"
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aeropiggot
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RE: A380 Wake Turbulence Data Are In

Tue Nov 15, 2005 8:56 am

Quote:
Quoting Zeke (Reply 41):
Seems strange to me, ICAO is a standards organisation, not a certification organisation.

The FAA, JAA, and ICAO all are collaborating on the certification and rule making process, with respect to the A380, as it should be.
A scientist discovers that which exists, an engineer creates that which never was.
 
redflyer
Posts: 3881
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2005 3:30 am

RE: A380 Wake Turbulence Data Are In

Tue Nov 15, 2005 9:04 am

Quoting A350 (Reply 21):
Perhaps the WhaleJet will end up with winglets as ugly as those of the 737NG

You're joking, right? Winglets make any aircraft look sleek and racy. Given the 380 has the most elegant wings around, a set of winglets would make it downright gorgeous (not to mention eliminate much of the stink caused by the wake turbulence tests).
My other home is a Piper Cherokee 180C
 
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glideslope
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Joined: Sun May 30, 2004 8:06 pm

RE: A380 Wake Turbulence Data Are In

Tue Nov 15, 2005 9:06 am

Quoting AeroPiggot (Thread starter):
Fellow A-netters,
Reference (ICAO report "Wake Vortex aspects of the Airbus A380 aircraft" 11/10/2005: T 13/3-05-0661.SLG) Preliminary data from A380 wake turbulence test are in, and it looks like Airbus predictions are totally outside the ball park with regards to the A380 wake. Flight test data shows that the A380 wake vortices will descend further and are significantly stronger at 1000ft (300m) below the generation altitude than for any other aircraft in its weight category (747 etc). On occasions the A380 wake vortices may descend 2000ft (600M) below the aircraft and pose possible passenger comfort issues, but not a hazard.

Initial ICAO guidance is as follows:
1) one additional min to be added to all separations, when the A380 is the leading aircraft.
2) Horizontal spacing on final approach to be no less than 10 NM between A380 and following aircraft.
3) vertical spacing to be no less than 2000ft when following behind the A380.


I believe that the A380 regulations will clearly exceed the current 747-400 ones. So what happen to Airbus predictions of 747 like or better wake vortex performance, and what will the existing A380 customers say about these new regulations for their aircraft. What will be the impact on airport operations?

Why is this news????? Did people ACTUALLY believe Airbus' claims!!!!

This is just the tip of the 380 iceberg. Sit back and watch all the other John Leahy style predictions become the fairy dust that they are.

Man, they should have learned from the 346 experience. Too bad really.
To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu
 
ikramerica
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RE: A380 Wake Turbulence Data Are In

Tue Nov 15, 2005 9:12 am

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 43):
Hence the HUGE wings.... (Interestingly, A engineers wanted to make the wings even bigger - now we know why  )

but the A380 wings aren't just greater in span, they are huge in surface area. how does surface area contribute to wake vortex?
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
redflyer
Posts: 3881
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2005 3:30 am

RE: A380 Wake Turbulence Data Are In

Tue Nov 15, 2005 9:13 am

Quoting Glideslope (Reply 47):
Why is this news????? Did people ACTUALLY believe Airbus' claims!!!!

This is just the tip of the 380 iceberg. Sit back and watch all the other John Leahy style predictions become the fairy dust that they are.

Mmmm...not sure what iceberg you're referring to but as far as I know the 380's only black eye is the delay in deliveries. Weight and interior fitting issues seem to be resolved. And I still have not seen where this ICAO report is. Nevertheless, I'm sure it will be overcome one way or another.

Personally, I don't think the 380 will see the size of the market Airbus has claimed but I do believe she will be a milestone in aviation history and will achieve all that her builders designed her to achieve in performance - including maintaining nominal wake turbulence.
My other home is a Piper Cherokee 180C

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