Garri767
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BA To Increase Direct India Flights

Tue Nov 15, 2005 8:13 am

from 32 to 45 , any input? i think it will hurt their business but hey thats just me. source= http://news.airwise.com/story/view/1132006617.html
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DavidT
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RE: BA To Increase Direct India Flights

Tue Nov 15, 2005 8:37 am

They must be good earners. I can imagine that, given the large number of Indians living in the UK. And with india growing as an outsourcing destination, the club world loads must be good also.
 
Garri767
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RE: BA To Increase Direct India Flights

Tue Nov 15, 2005 8:57 am

Quoting DavidT (Reply 1):
club world loads must be good also.

yes if there are enough people flying to make more flights, then there should be tons at the club worlds.

Garri Big grin
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jaysit
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RE: BA To Increase Direct India Flights

Tue Nov 15, 2005 10:01 am

Apparently the India routes are the third largest money maker for BA after the US (of course) and Europe.

However, certain morons on this site insist that BA want to expand flights to India because they like to lose money.
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Pomnath
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RE: BA To Increase Direct India Flights

Tue Nov 15, 2005 11:45 am

Quoting DavidT (Reply 1):
I can imagine that, given the large number of Indians living in the UK. And with india growing as an outsourcing destination, the club world loads must be good also.

First Class and Business Class on the India-London routes usually sells out before economy does.

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 3):
However, certain morons on this site insist that BA want to expand flights to India because they like to lose money.

Who are these morons, could you name them please?

+++

It is not just BA that is increasing flight on this route, but also Jet Airways (from zero to 14 and Air India (seems to be no count left, what with "specials" and "terminators" and "via Amritsar to Birmingham" . . .). And everybody goes full.

This increase will not hurt BA's business, but divert business from certain Very Smart airlines also flying the India-UK route and placing old shabby aircraft in a mistaken assumption that the India-UK customer deserves no better.
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Nimish
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RE: BA To Increase Direct India Flights

Tue Nov 15, 2005 8:03 pm

Quoting POmnath (Reply 4):
but divert business from certain Very Smart airlines also flying the India-UK route and placing old shabby aircraft in a mistaken assumption that the India-UK customer deserves no better.

And from certain Bewildered Dolts who feel that the best way to make money flying to India is to fly 4x weekly and charge for snacks and drinks.

BA's push in India is staggering!! Today's Bangalore papers - TOI, IE, ET, DH - all of them had a huge article on BA's plans for India and how excited it is to be in BLR. They've also just spent £2m on an India specific advertising push, besides all the money on training and
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BestWestern
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RE: BA To Increase Direct India Flights

Tue Nov 15, 2005 8:10 pm

Great news for BA. I have a feeling in my bones that BA and Jet will do well out of the market shake-up, with the Bewildered Dolts struggling - amazing that BD say they cant fill business, whilst BA have no problems!
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Concorde001
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RE: BA To Increase Direct India Flights

Tue Nov 15, 2005 8:23 pm

I have to agree, BA seem to be doing very well. The loads for the second BOM flight are amazing - most of the time F and C show 0, not to mention economy!
 
karan69
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RE: BA To Increase Direct India Flights

Tue Nov 15, 2005 9:07 pm

Quoting Nimish (Reply 5):
They've also just spent £2m on an India specific advertising push, besides all the money on training and

Yeah the "Namaste" ad campaign is indeed good, infact i was told to do a case study on it for my class and a lot interesting things did come up in their expansion.
like as Nimish points out the cost factor of 2 mil GBP is just an "official" figure for the press, the cost for advertising alone crosses the 4 mil mark and the upgrades they have made to entice the "locals" who would rather fly AI is also noteworthy,
they are spending around 1.5 mil GBP [give or take 500K] just for upgrades like Bollywood and even South Indian movies and a much better cuisene keeping in mind specil Indian dietary requirements--Someting on the lines similar to SQ

Way to go BA---better than the BD and VS experiences that have been mentioned and criticized by my fellow Indian a.netters above
 
Pomnath
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RE: BA To Increase Direct India Flights

Tue Nov 15, 2005 9:37 pm

Well, to be fair, I observed earlier today while in take-off queue a fairly new and shiny A-340-600 from, yes, Virgin Atlantic, also awaiting take-off. The last two letters were "IL".

Maybe VS is reading these interacts, after all?

But yes, BA and its focus on India is paying off.

Typical Indian international passenger is a harmless simple person, requiring and giving respect in equal measure, small sealed bottles of water / wine / alcohol instead of servings in open glasses and a small hot meal every now and then with some rice / roti / daal / curry / sweet / tea-coffee. That's it.

Yeah, sure, there are the jerks, but that's common to all communities.
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BestWestern
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RE: BA To Increase Direct India Flights

Tue Nov 15, 2005 10:08 pm

Quoting POmnath (Reply 9):
Maybe VS is reading these interacts, after all?

Dont flatter yourself! Major airlines couldnt give a damn about a winging 50 going on 12 yearold.

The 346 is planned from now till 30Nov, when the route becomes being daily, and the aircraft reverts to a 343

Quoting POmnath (Reply 9):
Indian international passenger is a harmless simple person



Quoting POmnath (Reply 9):
small sealed bottles of water / wine / alcohol instead of servings in open glasses

These sentances contradict each other.... In a country that the majority of its population are below the poverty line, how can you demand sealed water...
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jaysit
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RE: BA To Increase Direct India Flights

Wed Nov 16, 2005 1:09 am

Quoting POmnath (Reply 9):
Typical Indian international passenger is a harmless simple person, requiring and giving respect in equal measure, small sealed bottles of water / wine / alcohol instead of servings in open glasses and a small hot meal every now and then with some rice / roti / daal / curry / sweet / tea-coffee. That's it.

Whats with the small sealed beverage container bit that you're so obsessed with?
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Pomnath
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RE: BA To Increase Direct India Flights

Wed Nov 16, 2005 1:28 am

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 10):
The 346 is planned from now till 30Nov, when the route becomes being daily, and the aircraft reverts to a 343

Route's been daily for some time now.

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 10):
In a country that the majority of its population are below the poverty line, how can you demand sealed water...

Don't worry about the country or the poverty line, we are talking about what we demand when we buy an airline ticket, OK?

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 11):
Whats with the small sealed beverage container bit that you're so obsessed with?

This is based on observation and market research, as well as "culture". Bottled or packaged water has evolved in India from being an aspirational product to a fact of life. And if it calms a majority of passengers a a cost lower than serving them bottled or packaged alcohol, well, why not? There is also this Indian ethos to it, water is the most sacred gift you can give, you never make a visitor ask for water, right? So an airline that wants to get things right just places a few bottles in advance in the seat-pocket or on a tray as you walk in. I hope this helps you understand my "obsession", considering I've worked hard to get it introduced for airline passengers on domestic as well as international flights here.
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jaysit
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RE: BA To Increase Direct India Flights

Wed Nov 16, 2005 1:36 am

So basically you would want a bottle of water in every seat. Which is fine.

But I don't see what's wrong with a FA coming down the aisle with frequent water runs, the water being served in individual glasses. In fact, I've seen AI do it all the time.

When I go to someone's home in India, I don't expect them to bring a tray of individually sealed bottles of water. That would be ludicrous.
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Feroze
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RE: BA To Increase Direct India Flights

Wed Nov 16, 2005 1:40 am

Quoting Garri767 (Thread starter):
from 32 to 45 , any input? i think it will hurt their business but hey thats just me. source= http://news.airwise.com/story/view/1132006617.html

I'm open to be corrected if I am wrong, but isn't the increase from 35 to 42 flights per week by S06 mentioned in the article taking into account the already announced new daily flight to DEL? This will take the flights on the LHR-DEL sector from 7 per week to 14 per week in S06.

Regards,

Feroze

[Edited 2005-11-15 17:41:46]
 
Pomnath
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RE: BA To Increase Direct India Flights

Wed Nov 16, 2005 2:50 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 13):
But I don't see what's wrong with a FA coming down the aisle with frequent water runs

Agreed, but typical India-Europe flight, there will be two-three bar runs, which is when you can get water. I've had written correspondence with some European airlines who give me chapter and verse on just how much water they can carry and the extra weight it entails.

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 13):
When I go to someone's home in India, I don't expect them to bring a tray of individually sealed bottles of water. That would be ludicrous

This is not home, right?

+++

Look, believe me, it works. Every airline on domestic runs here has realised it. Likewise, to be fair, some of the international airlines have figured it out too. I know, for example, that cabin crew on Gulf Air knew this almost 25-28 years ago, and were trained accordingly.

And BA had been doing this for years now. Small bottles of wine with glass, never pour. Small single serve tetra-packs of juices. Small tins of cola. And small packages of water.

I mean, if it doesn't cost you, give the customer what he wants? Why force those wierd "bbq flavour" pretzels with wierd cola?
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FlyCaledonian
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RE: BA To Increase Direct India Flights

Wed Nov 16, 2005 3:01 am

Feroze, you're right. This news conference by BA is simply restating planned increases in frequency already announced months back for additional flights next summer, with DEL and BOM twice daily, BLR and MAA daily and CCU three times weekly. It would be news if BA was confirming the launch of flights to other destinations, not simply stating a potential future interest.
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jaysit
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RE: BA To Increase Direct India Flights

Wed Nov 16, 2005 3:05 am

Quoting Pomnath (Reply 15):
And BA had been doing this for years now. Small bottles of wine with glass, never pour. Small single serve tetra-packs of juices. Small tins of cola. And small packages of water.

Well, thank goodness they don't do this in Business Class.
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Pomnath
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RE: BA To Increase Direct India Flights

Wed Nov 16, 2005 3:07 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 17):
Well, thank goodness they don't do this in Business Class.

They do, if you ask for it. And Evian in Club World.
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jaysit
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RE: BA To Increase Direct India Flights

Wed Nov 16, 2005 3:33 am

Quoting Pomnath (Reply 18):
They do, if you ask for it. And Evian in Club World.

Well, they usually leave a bottle of Evian by your seat when you nap or sleep.

But if during a meal or cocktail service, if some FA plonked down a tiny bottle of wine or a spirit on your table, its generally considered very declasse.

I hope you're aware that most passengers (Indian or not) who are accustomed to fine dining don't share your bizarre Howard Hughes like obsession with sealed bottles of wine.
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Pe@rson
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RE: BA To Increase Direct India Flights

Wed Nov 16, 2005 3:38 am

The so-called 'experts' herein never cease to amaze me with their 'insight' founded on nothing more than thin air and hunches. Yeah, really better than airline CEOs and other senior management who invest a lot of money, time and effort into researching things. If BA are continuing to invest heavily in its London-India services, then it CLEARLY thinks it's going to be profitable. Why on earth would it - or any other business - do something which it knows would damage itself? Sure, a lot of things in business is based on risk, but calculated risk. Some people really are stupid.

Anyway, I suspect HYD will be served and, sometime in the future, ATQ, AMD and either TRV or COK or perhaps both.

[Edited 2005-11-15 19:47:18]
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abrelosojos
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RE: BA To Increase Direct India Flights

Wed Nov 16, 2005 4:41 am

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 10):
In a country that the majority of its population are below the poverty line,

= This is not true. 26% of Indian population is below NPR. Check WB or ADB for more info regarding same.

-A.
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jaysit
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RE: BA To Increase Direct India Flights

Wed Nov 16, 2005 5:02 am

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 21):
Quoting BestWestern (Reply 10):
In a country that the majority of its population are below the poverty line,

= This is not true. 26% of Indian population is below NPR. Check WB or ADB for more info regarding same.

In any case, why should it matter?

Those who are flying are not below the poverty line. They are customers just like any other customer on any other airline.

You provide your customers what they want, not what you think they should get based on the relative poverty levels of their fellow citizens.
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abrelosojos
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RE: BA To Increase Direct India Flights

Wed Nov 16, 2005 5:38 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 22):
You provide your customers what they want, not what you think they should get based on the relative poverty levels of their fellow citizens.

= Very well said.

-A.
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stealthpilot
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RE: BA To Increase Direct India Flights

Wed Nov 16, 2005 9:27 am

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 20):
Anyway, I suspect HYD will be served and, sometime in the future, ATQ, AMD and either TRV or COK or perhaps both.

Not anytime soon. Presently BA's plan is to increase the frequencies of their current destinations. They may consider HYD and COK or TRV later on but not anytime soon.

Slightly off topic, didn't VS show interest in starting services to BLR and HYD? What news of that?
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Garri767
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RE: BA To Increase Direct India Flights

Wed Nov 16, 2005 9:38 am

Quoting Stealthpilot (Reply 24):
Slightly off topic, didn't VS show interest in starting services to BLR and HYD? What news of that?

never knew about this, maybe someone can help clarify..
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Pomnath
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RE: BA To Increase Direct India Flights

Wed Nov 16, 2005 10:48 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 22):
Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 21):
Quoting BestWestern (Reply 10):
In a country that the majority of its population are below the poverty line,

= This is not true. 26% of Indian population is below NPR. Check WB or ADB for more info regarding same.

In any case, why should it matter?

Those who are flying are not below the poverty line. They are customers just like any other customer on any other airline.

A customer is a customer, even if they are from below the poverty line. I would expect an airline to give everybody the same level of service regardless of perceived wealth. That is where BA scores, and that is where they run full flights, because they are consistent.
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Garri767
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RE: BA To Increase Direct India Flights

Wed Nov 16, 2005 11:02 am

Quoting Pomnath (Reply 26):
A customer is a customer, even if they are from below the poverty line. I would expect an airline to give everybody the same level of service regardless of perceived wealth. That is where BA scores, and that is where they run full flights, because they are consistent.

also agreed!

Garri Big grin
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vv701
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RE: BA To Increase Direct India Flights

Wed Nov 16, 2005 11:14 am

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 10):
In a country that the majority of its population are below the poverty line

Even if true this is irrelevant. The middle class population of India is growing by an estimated 20 million people per year. Now this is about a miniscule one per cent of the Indian population. It is also around the same absolute number as the total size - not the annual growth - of the middle class in the UK. And it requires no maths genius to see that percentages are far less important than the absolute potential number of passengers to any airline. Indeed only the world's largest airlines currently carry 20 million or more passengers or, to put it another way, around one per cent of the Indian population. The potential of this market is phenomenal!
 
Pomnath
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RE: BA To Increase Direct India Flights

Wed Nov 16, 2005 12:31 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 28):
The middle class population of India is growing by an estimated 20 million people per year.

The number is probably higher, and more importantly, clustered in certain parts of the country, which is where the aviation growth is coming from.

Conversely, extreme poverty remains concentrated in certain parts of the country, which is why you do not hear foreign airlines lining up to fly in to Patna, Bhubaneshwar or similar.

Most importantly, the growth of the "micro economy" in India, of small businesses and entrepreneurs, is astounding, and something that most of the media and experts have very little idea of. Some Western observers, like Mark Tully, William Dalrymple or Francis Gautier and maybe some of the Chinese media, have their fingers on the pulse . . . which is more about the growth of agriculture and manufacturing/engineering. And not just the glamour would of software.

I mean, El Al is regularly benefitting from the organised tours of small farmers heading for Israel for 2-3 months. Likewise, BA reaches out intensively to the smaller towns.

So while your comment on middle class is correct, I just thought that I would amplify it a little bit more.
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gamps
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RE: BA To Increase Direct India Flights

Wed Nov 16, 2005 12:46 pm

Quoting Nimish (Reply 5):
BA's push in India is staggering!! Today's Bangalore papers - TOI, IE, ET, DH - all of them had a huge article on BA's plans for India and how excited it is to be in BLR

Last week BA took a big contingent of Press from Bangalore (including from local language dailies) to London HQ. May be SOP for a new launch but they are really targeting both business (as seen from coverage in English media) and leisure travel (visiting family and friends in US) as well.

Even with these direct connects it is still impressive how Srilankan is pulling so much traffic out of Bangalore to UK via Colombo!
 
Pomnath
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RE: BA To Increase Direct India Flights

Wed Nov 16, 2005 2:30 pm

Quoting Gamps (Reply 30):

Even with these direct connects it is still impressive how Srilankan is pulling so much traffic out of Bangalore to UK via Colombo

Well, not too long ago, even BA was able to pull UK-USA traffic from South India via Persian Gulf airports.

One more reason for the Sri Lankan preference is the free holiday you can score in Sri Lanka.
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Nimish
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RE: BA To Increase Direct India Flights

Wed Nov 16, 2005 5:35 pm

Quoting Gamps (Reply 30):
Last week BA took a big contingent of Press from Bangalore (including from local language dailies) to London HQ.

Ah that explains it. Otherwise I was wondering how all of them had quotes from Willie Walsh, and seemed to be gushing on about how BA loves India! Journos have a lot of fun  Smile
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cricket
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RE: BA To Increase Direct India Flights

Wed Nov 16, 2005 5:53 pm

BA took some 50 journos from all over India for a India-specific presser, they were all flown Y+ because Club World is the most popular way for Indian businessmen/women to travel and there were no seats.
I think BA's initiative to increase flights into India is fantastic and to those idiots who still think India is a back-water shitty country - I wonder what they'll say when we take away their jobs!
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HAWK21M
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RE: BA To Increase Direct India Flights

Wed Nov 16, 2005 6:24 pm

Quoting Cricket (Reply 33):
BA took some 50 journos from all over India for a India-specific presser

How many Such flights you've been on till date  Smile Lucky if its a new model though.

Quoting Pomnath (Reply 31):
One more reason for the Sri Lankan preference is the free holiday you can score in Sri Lanka.

Whats this.
regds
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Pomnath
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RE: BA To Increase Direct India Flights

Wed Nov 16, 2005 7:30 pm

Quoting Cricket (Reply 33):
they were all flown Y+ because Club World is the most popular way for Indian businessmen/women to travel and there

Actually, WT+ (Y+) on BA is positively 100% better than Club World if you are fat and/or tall and/or like to have a 100% chance of facing forward and/or don't like a 25% chance of getting imprisoned in one of the two centre seats.

Especially on the flights that take off from London in the morning.

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 34):
Quoting Pomnath (Reply 31):
One more reason for the Sri Lankan preference is the free holiday you can score in Sri Lanka.

Whats this

Well, there are these 1-2 night overnight free stopovers in Colombo if you fly UL, most of the time?
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