UALPHLCS
Topic Author
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PHL The Great Terminal Shuffle...

Tue Nov 15, 2005 11:29 am

OK so those of you who may look at PHL's webcam will have noticed UA has been operating for about two weeks without D1 and D3. Although we still have use of them for deplaning for now. Still no word of who is taking them but my money would still lean to WN over NW. (Hey I just noticed Southwest is the oposite of Northwest and WN is the oposite of NW. Wonder if someone did that on purpose?)

Anyway a new wrinkle has been thrown into the mix. HP left terminal D when the HP/US merger was completed, leaving D10 vacant. CO only operated that gate for HP as a ground handler they are now content with just 2 gates. Rumor has it that F9 will move to the single D10 gate, allowing DL to move to terminal A West as many in these forums have predicted.

Everybody follow? Good.
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
RP TPA
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RE: PHL The Great Terminal Shuffle...

Tue Nov 15, 2005 11:56 am

UALPHLCS.....

Have you heard if/when Air Canada will be moving to the USAirways gate area? Supposedly, US will be handling most of the ground functions for AC sometime in the future, at most of the stations AC is contracting out.
 
usairways85
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RE: PHL The Great Terminal Shuffle...

Tue Nov 15, 2005 12:50 pm

I thought UA just formed an agreement with AC to continue handling their flts in PHL.

F9's move to D10 makes sense, but that's only 2 flts a day...still an under used gate. How many gates will DL have at A west, 3 or 4?

Still don't know about D1 and D3. I'm sure WN will want any gates available, but it seems that they seldomly use D2 and D4, basically only when they have to. They are separate from the main WN area in E, specifically paxs have to go through security again.
 
etops1
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RE: PHL The Great Terminal Shuffle...

Tue Nov 15, 2005 12:52 pm

delta is moving to a-west? when and why? and what gates? there hardly is any space at a-west once the intl surge gets going. why can't they stay where they are at? we do not need delta close to usairways . they need to stay over at their gates.
 
usairways85
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RE: PHL The Great Terminal Shuffle...

Tue Nov 15, 2005 1:03 pm

I don't really get it either, but that's what looks like is going to happen. In reality Delta is scaling back operations in PHL and will only have 12-14 mainline flts and 6 or so RJ's. However like you mentioned there is virtually no room in A-west. When all the US transatlantic flts come in there are basically no gates and if DL planes are taking up a gate or two, the last thing that we want to start seing again is busing from the aircraft to the terminal for international flts.

Terminal E will begin renovations that will add a small 3 gate hammerhead on the end. This will cause a few current gates(WN gates) to be out of operation. Thus someone needs to move out of E to allow WN to maintain the number of gates they have now
 
TonyBurr
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RE: PHL The Great Terminal Shuffle...

Tue Nov 15, 2005 1:24 pm

The last few times I have gone through security at D it has been a real nightmare. It recalls the days right after 9/11. If Southwest adds flights there, security at D will be at a standstill.
 
UALPHLCS
Topic Author
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RE: PHL The Great Terminal Shuffle...

Tue Nov 15, 2005 2:11 pm

Quoting RP TPA (Reply 1):
Have you heard if/when Air Canada will be moving to the USAirways gate area? Supposedly, US will be handling most of the ground functions for AC sometime in the future, at most of the stations AC is contracting out

AC has agreed to lease D5 UA is still ground handling them. So now most of the RJ operation both UA and AC is out of D5. AC is not moving from the D terminal anytime soon, not with the ink of the lease barely dry.

I haven't heard anything about AC changing to US for ground handling. UA has ground handled AC in just about every city in the US were they overlap. The only exception I can think of off the top of my head is BOS.

Quoting TonyBurr (Reply 5):
The last few times I have gone through security at D it has been a real nightmare. It recalls the days right after 9/11. If Southwest adds flights there, security at D will be at a standstill.

WN paid for the expansion of the D security checkpoint. If posts were better at sarcasm I'd tell you how that has worked out. In fact all we can tell is that TSA has made matters in D worse. I have no hope that security in D will be faster until they rebuild the entire concourse which is still in the planning phase from what we have been told.
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
vega
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RE: PHL The Great Terminal Shuffle...

Tue Nov 15, 2005 4:02 pm

Quoting Usairways85 (Reply 4):
I don't really get it either, but that's what looks like is going to happen. In reality Delta is scaling back operations in PHL and will only have 12-14 mainline flts and 6 or so RJ's. However like you mentioned there is virtually no room in A-west. When all the US transatlantic flts come in there are basically no gates and if DL planes are taking up a gate or two, the last thing that we want to start seing again is busing from the aircraft to the terminal for international flts.

Only reason I can think of is that Air France will now be able to both depart and arrive at A (West), since they are serviced by Delta. But A(West)? Why not move the more prestigious international carrier, BA to "A"(West) from "A" maybe alongside Lufthansa and stick Delta (and tag-along AF) in "A", or better yet, move Delta to "A" and AF to "A"(West). Maybe PHL is getting ready to start the "A" refurbishment process and that's why all this is happening.
We are but a moment in this vast Universe and when gone we will never have existed.
 
USAFHummer
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RE: PHL The Great Terminal Shuffle...

Wed Nov 16, 2005 5:29 am

If F9 is moving to Gate D10...when would the move take place?

Greg
Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
 
cgnnrw
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RE: PHL The Great Terminal Shuffle...

Wed Nov 16, 2005 5:35 am

I frequently fly AF into PHL and would be pleased if AF arrived AND departed from the newer Terminal A West. So what do you say AF 'bout doing me this little favor??????  Smile
A330 man.
 
quickmover
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RE: PHL The Great Terminal Shuffle...

Wed Nov 16, 2005 5:44 am

Airtran has D12, D14, D15, and D16. Could they use another D gate?
 
usairways85
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RE: PHL The Great Terminal Shuffle...

Wed Nov 16, 2005 5:49 am

i think it is already set in stone that AF will be both arriving and departing from A-west, i just can't remember when(anyone care to enlighten me)
 
cgnnrw
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RE: PHL The Great Terminal Shuffle...

Wed Nov 16, 2005 6:03 am

Quoting Usairways85 (Reply 11):
i think it is already set in stone that AF will be both arriving and departing from A-west,

Good news!!! Hope it's soon. Will be flying them in December.
A330 man.
 
BigOrange
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RE: PHL The Great Terminal Shuffle...

Wed Nov 16, 2005 6:07 am

Quoting Cgnnrw (Reply 9):
I frequently fly AF into PHL and would be pleased if AF arrived AND departed from the newer Terminal A West. So what do you say AF 'bout doing me this little favor??????

I would presume this will happen if Delta move to A-West.
 
cgnnrw
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RE: PHL The Great Terminal Shuffle...

Wed Nov 16, 2005 6:24 am

Quoting BigOrange (Reply 13):
I would presume this will happen if Delta move to A-West.

Yes, that's sounds logical since DL does all the stuff for AF in PHL. Sooooooo any DLers out there who can say anything about such a move?????
A330 man.
 
TWAAF9
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RE: PHL The Great Terminal Shuffle...

Wed Nov 16, 2005 7:10 am

Last I heard from F9 management at PHL was that DL was moving to A-EAST and that F9 was looking at moving to Terminal E (possible gate/counter share with YX--however it looks pretty un-workable, though). Barring moving to Terminal E, F9 has the option of space in D. Any moves for F9 would be after New Year's.
Ahh, the power of SABRE...
 
ORD2PHL
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RE: PHL The Great Terminal Shuffle...

Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:17 am

As a frequent UA flyer out of PHL I sure do hope that WN does not move additional capacity to D...the security lines for D are already a nightmare and more often than not I'll use the Star preferred line over at C, when the US folk are pleasant enough to let me through.

ORD2PHL
 
vega
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RE: PHL The Great Terminal Shuffle...

Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:46 am

Quoting TWAAF9 (Reply 15):
Last I heard from F9 management at PHL was that DL was moving to A-EAST and that F9 was looking at moving to Terminal E (possible gate/counter share with YX--however it looks pretty un-workable, though). Barring moving to Terminal E, F9 has the option of space in D. Any moves for F9 would be after New Year's.

That'll be a step down for Frontier (F9), from grand A(West) to D or E. I never understood why they were in AW anyway. Thought it was either, no other gates available, or some relationship with an international carrier or US International. Wonder how F9 feels about the move. It'd be interesting to find out the reason for all this shuffling. I can't find any public documentation anywhere.
We are but a moment in this vast Universe and when gone we will never have existed.
 
PHLBOS
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RE: PHL The Great Terminal Shuffle...

Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:51 am

Quoting Vega (Reply 17):
It'd be interesting to find out the reason for all this shuffling. I can't find any public documentation anywhere.

It's been mentioned in a few threads within the last couple of months. Most of the moving is being done in anticipation of the eventual Hammerhead E construction. During the construction time, several of WN's current gates will be out of service; as a result, they will (at least temporarily) will move to some if not all of the gates vacated by DL. The other gate moving taking place elsewhere is a ripple-effect of that construction project.
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
USAFHummer
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RE: PHL The Great Terminal Shuffle...

Wed Nov 16, 2005 10:42 am

*shudder*...I think I could tolerate F9 being in D cause its still connected to the food court and mall, but F9 in the isolation of E? I hope not!

Greg
Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
 
usflt1778
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RE: PHL The Great Terminal Shuffle...

Wed Nov 16, 2005 3:07 pm

AF, BA and LH are moving to A-West during first quarter of 2006. AF will have their own counter. DL is moving to A-East after BA has vacated their current space.

Work to the bag handling systems and bag make-up area has yet to be completed and will dictate the definitive dates of everyone's moves.
 
cgnnrw
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RE: PHL The Great Terminal Shuffle...

Thu Nov 17, 2005 12:18 am

Quoting USflt1778 (Reply 20):
AF, BA and LH are moving to A-West during first quarter of 2006. AF will have their own counter.

Good! When all the international carriers and US' trans-Atlantic flights operate from Termianal A West, PHL can finally call itself a "proper international gateway"  Smile

Better late than never! Cheers to Philly!
A330 man.
 
PHLBOS
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RE: PHL The Great Terminal Shuffle...

Thu Nov 17, 2005 12:24 am

Quoting USAFHummer (Reply 19):
*shudder*...I think I could tolerate F9 being in D cause its still connected to the food court and mall, but F9 in the isolation of E? I hope not!

The construction of the Terminal D-E Check-In consolidation area is part of the same construction package as the Hammerhead E project; the buildings additions are designed by the same architectural firm. My guess would be that construction of the D-E area will probably commence first before Hammerhead E. So should F9 or anyone else move to E; the present isolation factor's days will be numbered.
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
N501US
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RE: PHL The Great Terminal Shuffle...

Thu Nov 17, 2005 12:36 am

Delta currently has a Crown Room in Philly (outside of security at Terminal E). Will they still maintain a Crown Room when they move to Terminal A or will the club be eliminated as a cost cutting measure?
Fools and thieves are well disguised in the temple and the marketplace.....
 
WidgetBoi
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RE: PHL The Great Terminal Shuffle...

Thu Nov 17, 2005 12:38 am

Quoting TWAAF9 (Reply 15):
F9 was looking at moving to Terminal E (possible gate/counter share with YX--however it looks pretty un-workable, though)

Doesn't Delta handle all of Midwest's flights?
 
usairways85
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RE: PHL The Great Terminal Shuffle...

Thu Nov 17, 2005 2:42 am

YX only has 2/3 flts a day into PHL...they could easily move with DL where ever they go.

Could be a sign that DL could be closing its Crown Room in Philly. I wouldn't be too surprised given their decreasing presence in PHL.

I really doubt we will see anyone move into E anytime soon. Any gates that are vacated in E will most likely need to go to WN so they can maintain the same number of gates. Also as already noted D will have a few unused gates that F9 or whoever can move to.
 
usflt1778
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RE: PHL The Great Terminal Shuffle...

Thu Nov 17, 2005 12:33 pm

The Crown Room is expected to move into one of the current BA lounge spaces on the lower level of A-East.

YX has their own check-in staff but uses DGS for ramp handling. I don't know whether they are moving with DL or not, but they will continue to have their own counter space.
 
usairways85
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RE: PHL The Great Terminal Shuffle...

Thu Nov 17, 2005 1:53 pm

Oh yea makes sense given that BA will end up vacating A-east and their club on the ground floor. Two things though:

Has AA expressed interest in moving into BA's space. AA's club is rather small and outside of security. BA's location would be much more convienent.

Will BA open a club in A-west or will they cease to have a club?
 
N1120A
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RE: PHL The Great Terminal Shuffle...

Thu Nov 17, 2005 2:02 pm

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 6):
I haven't heard anything about AC changing to US for ground handling. UA has ground handled AC in just about every city in the US were they overlap. The only exception I can think of off the top of my head is BOS.

Given AC's location in UA's portion of Terminal C at BOS, it would lead one to believe that UA does do their ground handling. On the other hand, I am almost completely sure that UA does not ground handle AC at LAX given that AC is one of the members of the conglomerate of airlines that own the master lease Terminal 2 and UA is in Terminal 6-8
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
usflt1778
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RE: PHL The Great Terminal Shuffle...

Thu Nov 17, 2005 2:47 pm

Quoting Usairways85 (Reply 27):
Will BA open a club in A-west or will they cease to have a club?

BA will have a new lounge opposite gate A14 (currently empty space) from what I've heard.
 
usairways85
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RE: PHL The Great Terminal Shuffle...

Thu Nov 24, 2005 10:48 pm

Well some big news in today's paper

WN will pick up D1 and D3 i was a little surprised because it seems they barely use D2 and D4 currently, but i guess with 4 gates in D they will have more of an operation there as opposed to 2 outlier gates

WN will also pick up DL's 4 E gates in the spring. DL is moving to A-east when BA moves to A-west. They are currently working on a new baggage system in A-east/west which is supposed to be completed by the spring.

That will give WN 12 gates in D and E. However doesn't mention anything about the new E hammerhead project. How many gates will WN have to vacate and when?

Even if they have to give up 3 gates, they still have 9. They will be at 61 flts from 6 gates i believe, so with 9 gates i can see somewhere in the 80 flts a day range.

They also said to look for some north/south flying to Florida and other southeast cities as well as other big East coast markets. I would also look for DEN service down the road.

I really think they are going to put the squeeze on US, and possibly even FL. FL has had a good size Florida operation for a while now, and US, FL , and WN have all been able to coexist. But if WN increases its florida schedule further FL might have to pulldown some of its seasonal flts from PHL-PBI and PHL-RSW because they just won't be able to compete against WN's year long daily flts
 
TonyBurr
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RE: PHL The Great Terminal Shuffle...

Fri Nov 25, 2005 12:19 am

No surprise that the UA vacated gates will got to WN. But dear and trembling occur when I think of that this will do to the security line at D !At times now it can be an absolute horror with basically UA and CO there. Add the flights for WN and it causes horrible thoughts of the time it would take to get through security. And I have no hope that the TSA will do anything to improve the situation. They recently "redesigned" the lanes at D and it has not been worse since the immediate time after 9/11.

Woe to us who must use it!
 
RP TPA
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RE: PHL The Great Terminal Shuffle...

Fri Nov 25, 2005 1:09 am

Re AC being handled by UA:

Air Canada has their own employees handling flights at BOS/LGA/EWR/DCA/ATL/MIA/FLL/TPA/ORD/IAH/LAX/SFO......Most of the other cities they fly to are handled by UA, with a few exceptions. Las Vegas is one example. Some ground handling company does the work over there. AFAIK, USAirways is supposed to take over some or all of the ground handling at the airports currently serviced by UA or others. Obviously, PHL/CLT/LAS/PHX are the most likely stations. I'm just not sure when this will occur.
 
n917me
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RE: PHL The Great Terminal Shuffle...

Fri Nov 25, 2005 12:44 pm

DL will only have 3 gates in A east. Whether they handle AF or not is still in up in the air. AF has placed RFP's out to other handlers. AF is NOT happy with DL and DGS handling them in PHL.

YX will move, most likley away from DL as well. Look for them in Terminal D (D10), possibly with F9 sharing space with YX.

WN will jump on E gates as soon as possible.

Look for some moved to happen in February, the rest in March/April time frame.
 
PVD757
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RE: PHL The Great Terminal Shuffle...

Fri Nov 25, 2005 11:26 pm

OK, a little help since I'm not overly familiar with the PHL gate situation:

After DL moves from E to A, who else will be in E with WN and how many E gates will WN NOT have in E.

Who else will have D gates and which ones?

Thanks
 
cgnnrw
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RE: PHL The Great Terminal Shuffle...

Sat Nov 26, 2005 12:51 am

Quoting N917ME (Reply 33):
DL will only have 3 gates in A east. Whether they handle AF or not is still in up in the air. AF has placed RFP's out to other handlers. AF is NOT happy with DL and DGS handling them in PHL.

Why is AF uhappy with DL? Seems a bit strange for two alliance partners not to get on well with each other....or does it have to do with the DL employees in PHL?
A330 man.
 
usairways85
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Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2001 11:59 am

RE: PHL The Great Terminal Shuffle...

Sat Nov 26, 2005 1:33 am

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 34):
After DL moves from E to A, who else will be in E with WN and how many E gates will WN NOT have in E

Currently DL has 4 gates in E, WN has 4, and NW has 3. Also YX uses one of DL's. WN will take over DL's 4 gates, DL moves to A-east, YX will probably move to D and share a gate with F9 and NW will stay put with their 3 gates in E.

NW E2, E4, E6
DL E1, E3, E5, E7
YX E7
WN E8, E9, E10, E12 (I don't think these are the correct numbers for WN, i thought they have something like E10abc, someone know?)
 
usflt1778
Posts: 249
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2001 4:43 am

RE: PHL The Great Terminal Shuffle...

Sat Nov 26, 2005 7:03 am

Quoting Cgnnrw (Reply 35):
Why is AF uhappy with DL? Seems a bit strange for two alliance partners not to get on well with each other....or does it have to do with the DL employees in PHL?

The relationship at PHL was a very good one for a long time, however DL's own internal problems during the past year have strained their resources and management, which has trickled through their entire operation. The general feeling is that they have so many problems to address on their own right now that AF is more of a burden for them as they continue to downsize their own operation. Much of the local DL management has changed after a lot of senior staff took early retirement, and although it is only 1 flight per day, AF requires a significant amount of effort to run smoothly and to satisfy the heavy AF bureaucracy (lots of paperwork and reports).
 
PVD757
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Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2003 8:23 pm

RE: PHL The Great Terminal Shuffle...

Sat Nov 26, 2005 7:21 am

Quoting Usairways85 (Reply 36):

Thanks USAirways85, I needed a clearer road map to follow along with this one...
 
phljjs
Posts: 296
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 7:26 am

RE: PHL The Great Terminal Shuffle...

Sun Nov 27, 2005 4:49 am

Quoting Usairways85 (Reply 36):
WN E8, E9, E10, E12 (I don't think these are the correct numbers for WN, i thought they have something like E10abc, someone know?)

those numbers are right. E10abc was how some of the gates were numbered before WN came.
Also, wouldn't it make more sense for NW to move to terminal D and give WN all of ternimal E?
 
PHLAUA
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 7:46 am

RE: PHL The Great Terminal Shuffle...

Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:20 am

It looks like WN is utilizing their D gates more. I flew to MCO Thursday (12/1) and all gates were being utilized during the 2 hours I was there. When returning today (12/5) 2 of the gates had a/c at them. Strangely enough, both of my flights went out of D2.

Jeff

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