United777
Topic Author
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BA B747-ADV Passenger Version Order Today?

Tue Nov 15, 2005 4:02 pm

Not sure if this has already been posted....

Just saw a news report here in Seattle that a launch annoucment for the 747-ADV passenger version can be today and either British Airways, Qantas Airways or Singapore Airlines can also announce an order today.

One of the features on the new jet will be skylight windows ontop of the aircraft to give passengers a "space flight feel". Interesting.



[Edited 2005-11-15 08:02:39]

[Edited 2005-11-15 08:06:48]
 
hz747300
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RE: BA B747-ADV Order Today?

Tue Nov 15, 2005 4:06 pm

Two things happened today:
1. There was a freighter order for the 747-8F (747-ADV)
2. BA reports that they are leaning towards Boeing.

Odds are there will not be an announcement today--but I would venture to guess it will come in December sometime. Boeing lets the airlines announce the orders first, so expect it to come from British Airways, Qantas, or Singapore Airlines first.

Maybe for this, it will be a joint announcement.
Keep on truckin'...
 
United777
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RE: BA B747-ADV Passenger Version Order Today?

Tue Nov 15, 2005 4:11 pm

Here is a link to the Seattle news station report. You might need to register to see the article.

http://www.king5.com/topstories/stor...NW_111405BUBboeingKC.5fc34005.html
 
707lvr
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RE: BA B747-ADV Passenger Version Order Today?

Tue Nov 15, 2005 4:12 pm

Both KIRO-7 and KING-5 reported "Just in" news on the 747-ADV at 23:10 PST but I only caught the end of each. Anyone else hear the report?
 
hz747300
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RE: BA B747-ADV Passenger Version Order Today?

Tue Nov 15, 2005 4:22 pm

SEATTLE, Nov. 15 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- The Boeing Company (NYSE: BA)
today officially launched the new Boeing 747-8 program, which includes the
747-8 Intercontinental passenger airplane and the 747-8 Freighter airplane.
Cargolux, based in Luxembourg, has ordered 10 747-8 Freighters and will
take delivery of the first 747-8F in third-quarter 2009. It also holds
purchase rights for 10 additional airplanes. Cargolux currently operates an
all-Boeing fleet of 13 747-400 freighters.

-------
just in off the newswire, it's official all versions launched today!

I was wrong. I sit corrected.
Keep on truckin'...
 
TinkerBelle
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RE: BA B747-ADV Passenger Version Order Today?

Tue Nov 15, 2005 4:28 pm

Woow! They are finally launching the 'King of the skies' this time around. Great news for airbus and all airplane enthusists like myself out there. I've been waiting for this day for a loooong time.
If you are going through hell, keep going.
 
NZAA
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RE: BA B747-ADV Passenger Version Order Today?

Tue Nov 15, 2005 4:31 pm

Planes Piloted Tecnam P2002 JF, Cessna 172R, Cessna 152, Airbus A320
 
fuffla
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RE: BA B747-ADV Passenger Version Order Today?

Tue Nov 15, 2005 4:36 pm

*crosses fingers* Please be QF

Seriously, a great day for Boeing in a really big year of orders for both aircraft manufacturers
 
columba
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RE: BA B747-ADV Passenger Version Order Today?

Tue Nov 15, 2005 5:10 pm

I hope Lufthansa will order some soon  Wink (as well as some 787s and 777Fs)
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
ikramerica
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RE: BA B747-ADV Passenger Version Order Today?

Tue Nov 15, 2005 5:55 pm

Maybe 747-8I (yes, that's the clumsy name for the pax version right now) order in Dubai at the show?

An EK surprise (B748 + A359 order, all GEnex, of course)...  Wink
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
sparkingwave
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RE: BA B747-ADV Passenger Version Order Today?

Tue Nov 15, 2005 6:15 pm

Yeaaaaaaaa Boeing!!!

SparkingWave
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797charter
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RE: BA B747-ADV Passenger Version Order Today?

Tue Nov 15, 2005 9:33 pm

Take a look at this:

http://www.flightinternational.com/A.../BA+ponders+long-haul+options.html

Looks not to god about any order from BA these days...

"...He added that the jury is still out on the A380, as it is not yet in service, but the aircraft is very much on our radar screen.
But this statement could also be seen as a "preparation" to
negotiate with Boeing.
On the other hand is the restricted slots at LHR a limitation, that hurt no carriers more than BA, and could be the reason to choose the A380, to ensure "room" to growth.
Keep it clear of the propellers
 
STARCREW
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RE: BA B747-ADV Passenger Version Order Today?

Tue Nov 15, 2005 10:06 pm

BA won't want it with the GE engines only especially after their experiences as launch customer with the 777-200ER and the GE90. I remember hearing a quote from BA afterwards saying that they would never be launch customer on anything again. Now if they come up with a RR option then I think the deal would easily be done especially since BA are short of longhaul equipment and are having to convert some 767 from shorthaul config to longhaul (dusked).
there is only ONEWORLD
 
wedgetail737
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RE: BA B747-ADV Passenger Version Order Today?

Tue Nov 15, 2005 10:28 pm

In light of all of these launches, maybe the Sonic Cruiser will be offered again. One can only dream. They just need to come up with technology to fly Mach 1.5 or higher with comparable fuel economy.

Wouldn't that be cool!
 
Rj111
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RE: BA B747-ADV Passenger Version Order Today?

Tue Nov 15, 2005 10:35 pm

Quoting 797charter (Reply 11):
On the other hand is the restricted slots at LHR a limitation, that hurt no carriers more than BA, and could be the reason to choose the A380, to ensure "room" to growth.

It actually hurts BA a lot less than other carriers, as they get a lions share of the slots.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: BA B747-ADV Passenger Version Order Today?

Tue Nov 15, 2005 10:37 pm

Quoting STARCREW (Reply 12):
BA won't want it with the GE engines only especially after their experiences as launch customer with the 777-200ER and the GE90. I remember hearing a quote from BA afterwards saying that they would never be launch customer on anything again. Now if they come up with a RR option then I think the deal would easily be done

well in that case BA wont be getting them - for better or worse Boeing have signed another exclusivity deal with GE - there will be no RR powered 747-8 - undesirable from a customers point of view I know - but I can understand from Boeings point of view - only one engine/airframe combo to certify and keep the pylon interface simple . I think this airframe is going to be a 'steady seller' rather than the huge seller the -400 was back in the old days - if having a monopoly engine supplier keeps the unit cost down then it is something the customers will have to put up with if they want the a/c .
 
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USAF336TFS
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RE: BA B747-ADV Passenger Version Order Today?

Tue Nov 15, 2005 10:42 pm

Quoting Columba (Reply 8):
I hope Lufthansa will order some soon (as well as some 787s and 777Fs)

Amen... Let's keep our  crossfingers ! My gut tells me we'll see it in LH livery. I know that the Cargo people LOVE the 747. I think the pax side likes the aircraft as well. Would fit nicely between the 744s and the A380.
336th Tactical Fighter Squadron, 4th Fighter Wing, Seymour Johnson AFB
 
drerx7
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RE: BA B747-ADV Passenger Version Order Today?

Tue Nov 15, 2005 11:01 pm

Quoting USAF336TFS (Reply 16):
Would fit nicely between the 744s and the A380.

Thats what everybody was trying to tell that dude in the "I don't think the 747adv will be launched" thread--boy did he get pie in his face  laughing 
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
TinkerBelle
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RE: BA B747-ADV Passenger Version Order Today?

Tue Nov 15, 2005 11:16 pm

Quoting STARCREW (Reply 12):
BA won't want it with the GE engines only especially after their experiences as launch customer with the 777-200ER and the GE90. I remember hearing a quote from BA afterwards saying that they would never be launch customer on anything again.

BA was NOT the launch customer of 772ER.
If you are going through hell, keep going.
 
Boogyjay
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RE: BA B747-ADV Passenger Version Order Today?

Tue Nov 15, 2005 11:17 pm

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 15):
if having a monopoly engine supplier keeps the unit cost down

Not sure it does.

The airframe may end up being cheaper (easier/cheaper to design, produce and certify) and easier to market in the 2nd hand market (no commonality problem) but the engine manufacturer knows it enjoys a monopoly. I think GE might price their engines and even more importantly the spare parts and possible maintenance contracts up.

Don't forget airlines sign the engine contracts independantly to the airframe in itself.

In the end, the single GE choice may be a disadvantage for the B747-8.

What are your thoughts?
 
STARCREW
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RE: BA B747-ADV Passenger Version Order Today?

Wed Nov 16, 2005 2:40 am

Quoting TinkerBelle (Reply 18):
BA was NOT the launch customer of 772ER.

Ok point taken BA was launch customer for 777-200 and ordered 5 in Aug 1991. It THEN went on to order the 777-200ER.  banghead 
there is only ONEWORLD
 
CHRISBA777ER
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RE: BA B747-ADV Passenger Version Order Today?

Wed Nov 16, 2005 3:02 am

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 17):
Quoting USAF336TFS (Reply 16):
Would fit nicely between the 744s and the A380.

Thats what everybody was trying to tell that dude in the "I don't think the 747adv will be launched" thread--boy did he get pie in his face

I freely admit i was wrong - they will launch it - fair play to them. Whether it will get any pax orders is another thing - this was my point.

We will see. I'm tempted to put up a thread saying "There will be no Pax orders for the 747-800" just so we get a pax order by the end of the week!
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
777236ER
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RE: BA B747-ADV Passenger Version Order Today?

Wed Nov 16, 2005 3:02 am

Delete please!  Smile

If you have an opinion on a topic, you should in detail express why you have the opinion and what made you come to that conclusion.

[Edited 2005-11-15 19:03:49]
Your bone's got a little machine
 
777236ER
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RE: BA B747-ADV Passenger Version Order Today?

Wed Nov 16, 2005 3:03 am

Quoting STARCREW (Reply 20):

Ok point taken BA was launch customer for 777-200 and ordered 5 in Aug 1991. It THEN went on to order the 777-200ER.

BA recieved the first 777-200ER.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
drerx7
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RE: BA B747-ADV Passenger Version Order Today?

Wed Nov 16, 2005 3:22 am

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 21):
I freely admit i was wrong - they will launch it - fair play to them. Whether it will get any pax orders is another thing - this was my point.

We will see. I'm tempted to put up a thread saying "There will be no Pax orders for the 747-800" just so we get a pax order by the end of the week!

LOL--touche. I think the passenger version will get off to a very slow start--they'll probably pick up an order from 1 heavy-weighter in the near-term. At the end of the day airlines with 747 fleets will probably replace them with mixes of these and 777s--that is the ones that don't need the capacity of the A380 (like UA and NW)
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
fraspotter
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RE: BA B747-ADV Passenger Version Order Today?

Wed Nov 16, 2005 3:36 am

It might just be me, but I think that JL will order the 747-8 passenger version before BA. JL has many 747 "classics" that they need to replace while BA has all 744's. Maybe some of the older BA planes from 89-91 but other than that I would say that their fleet doesn't need replacing anytime soon.
Currently BA has 57 744s in active service as it says on airfleets.net
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ckfred
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RE: BA B747-ADV Passenger Version Order Today?

Wed Nov 16, 2005 3:43 am

I don't think the lack of engine choice is going to be a problem. When the 747-100 and -200 came out, pretty much everyone order P&W JT8D engines. I think only BA wanted RR RB211 engines.

It is a little curious that the 787 comes with a choice of GE or RR, while the 747 Advanced only comes with the GE engines from the 787.
 
ikramerica
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RE: BA B747-ADV Passenger Version Order Today?

Wed Nov 16, 2005 3:46 am

Has the GE only nature of the 773ER hurt the sales? Do we hear of airlines opting for the 346 these days instead because they don't want the GE?

And considering the 748 is a derivative and the GEnex will already be in service 1 year before the 748 EIS, one would hope the "launch customer gremlins" will be mostly worked out.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
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Vasu
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RE: BA B747-ADV Passenger Version Order Today?

Wed Nov 16, 2005 3:56 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 27):
Has the GE only nature of the 773ER hurt the sales? Do we hear of airlines opting for the 346 these days instead because they don't want the GE?

Is there anything wrong with the GEs?
 
TinkerBelle
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RE: BA B747-ADV Passenger Version Order Today?

Wed Nov 16, 2005 3:57 am

Quoting STARCREW (Reply 20):
Ok point taken BA was launch customer for 777-200 and ordered 5 in Aug 1991. It THEN went on to order the 777-200ER.

Wrong again....  talktothehand  BA was not a launch customer for any of the T7's.
If you are going through hell, keep going.
 
BlueSky1976
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RE: BA B747-ADV Passenger Version Order Today?

Wed Nov 16, 2005 4:09 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 27):
considering the 748 is a derivative and the GEnex will already be in service 1 year before the 748 EIS, one would hope the "launch customer gremlins" will be mostly worked out

GENX will be in service for 6 - 8 months tops before 747-8 flies. The flight test period does not count as a revenue service period, unfortunately. Just as Trent 900 won't be in service until December 2006, even though it's already flying on A380.
POLAND IS UNDER DICTATORSHIP. PLEASE SUPPORT COMMITTEE FOR DEFENSE OF DEMOCRACY, K.O.D.
 
Thunderbird1
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RE: BA B747-ADV Passenger Version Order Today?

Wed Nov 16, 2005 4:31 am

I just wish the passenger version were a big longer. 12 feet isn't much of a stretch.
 
JBirdAV8r
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RE: BA B747-ADV Passenger Version Order Today?

Wed Nov 16, 2005 4:44 am

Quoting BoogyJay (Reply 19):
The airframe may end up being cheaper (easier/cheaper to design, produce and certify) and easier to market in the 2nd hand market (no commonality problem) but the engine manufacturer knows it enjoys a monopoly. I think GE might price their engines and even more importantly the spare parts and possible maintenance contracts up.

Don't forget airlines sign the engine contracts independantly to the airframe in itself.

In the end, the single GE choice may be a disadvantage for the B747-8.

Yeah, it sure killed the 737  banghead 
I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
 
sunrisevalley
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RE: BA B747-ADV Passenger Version Order Today?

Wed Nov 16, 2005 5:02 am

Quoting STARCREW (Reply 12):
never be launch customer on anything again.

Never is a very long time! Airlines are pragmatists; they will assess the product on it's merits at the time they are getting ready to buy.
I think pending orders for new aircraft from QF, SQ and NZ might provide some hints where some likely future orders for the 747-8 will come from. NZ could use the incremental capacity on it's AKL-LAX- LHR routing where load factors are running close to 80% and they are slot restricted. Admittedly Fyfe in a recent interview did not rule out MAN and GTW. If the much rumored NZ order to follow the recent topup of the 787-8 order is not forthcoming within the next 3 to 4-months it might suggest that the 747-8 is a very strong possibilty. A smaller than anticipated QF order for the 777-300ER in December might also suggest that the 747-8 is under serious consideration. SQ has a policy of a young fleet so it could be ready for a significant number around EIS time.
My 10 cents worth........
 
SDLSimme
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RE: BA B747-ADV Passenger Version Order Today?

Wed Nov 16, 2005 5:08 am

Sorry if this question has an obvious answer but I haven't been following the 747Adv development very closely.

How big will the 748 be compared to the 744? One of the few things that i picked up was that it should be much larger, to compete with the A380. When I was looking at the pictures at Boeing's webpage, it looks about the same size as the 744 though i thought?

Also, how much of the design is done and when will it be flying?
A319-A321, A332-A333, RJ85, B733-B738, B743-B744, B752, B762-B764, B772-B773, CRJ200-CRJ700, Dash 8 Q300-Q400, ERJ 145,
 
GDB
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RE: BA B747-ADV Passenger Version Order Today?

Wed Nov 16, 2005 5:11 am

BA was one of the original 'working together group' defining the 777 with Boeing, they were an early customer, maybe not a launch, but given BA's involvement from the early days such a distinction borders on pendantry.
And yes, BA had a torrid time early on with the 777/GE90, (serve them right to do such a shoddy deal, with GE buying BA's Eng Overhaul facility, which in years to come would show a decline in quality, last year the place managed to get shut down for a time, a major cause of the 2004 Summer problems BA had).

But why do people have this idea, despite plenty of public statements by the airline, despite it being pointed out numerous times on here, that BA will NOT be a launch customer for anything again.
So don't hold your breath for BA 747-8 order.

I was at a briefing on Friday, it was mostly about BA's pension deficit, which will preclude any BA new aircraft order for two years, at least.
That is the reality, not the overheated opinions of either a local radio station in a Boeing company town, or on this site.

[Edited 2005-11-15 21:30:26]
 
N79969
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RE: BA B747-ADV Passenger Version Order Today?

Wed Nov 16, 2005 5:19 am

I think the content of GDB's post is definitive and good as gold.
 
TinkerBelle
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RE: BA B747-ADV Passenger Version Order Today?

Wed Nov 16, 2005 5:23 am

Quoting SDLSimme (Reply 34):
Sorry if this question has an obvious answer but I haven't been following the 747Adv development very closely.

How big will the 748 be compared to the 744? One of the few things that i picked up was that it should be much larger, to compete with the A380. When I was looking at the pictures at Boeing's webpage, it looks about the same size as the 744 though i thought?

Your sources are definitely suspect  Wink

The passenger version is only 11.7 ft longer that the 744. That will accommodate 34 additional seats in a typical three-class configuration. The freighter is a little bit longer than the passenger version but not by much.

Quoting SDLSimme (Reply 34):
Also, how much of the design is done and when will it be flying?

The wing is not new but apparently it's better than the 744 wing. In other words, it's a 744 on steroids.
If you are going through hell, keep going.
 
Thrust
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RE: BA B747-ADV Passenger Version Order Today?

Wed Nov 16, 2005 5:29 am

Singapore Airlines ordering the 747 Advanced? That seems a little bit farfetched. Didn't the president/chairman of Singapore Airlines claim he would rather misuse the A380 on certain routes than purchase the 747 Advanced?
Fly one thing; Fly it well
 
Airportgal
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RE: BA B747-ADV Passenger Version Order Today?

Wed Nov 16, 2005 5:30 am

Quoting SDLSimme (Reply 34):
How big will the 748 be compared to the 744? One of the few things that i picked up was that it should be much larger, to compete with the A380.

It is not intended to compete with the A380.... it fills a market between 747-400 and the A380.
 
keesje
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RE: BA B747-ADV Passenger Version Order Today?

Wed Nov 16, 2005 5:34 am

Quoting Thrust (Reply 38):
Singapore Airlines ordering the 747 Advanced? That seems a little bit farfetched. Didn't the president/chairman of Singapore Airlines claim he would rather misuse the A380 on certain routes than purchase the 747 Advanced?

Boeing will no doubt open a bottle of Champagne if SQ orders them.

Probably won´t be a Magnum though if they order additional passenger A380s at the same time.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
UALophile
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RE: BA B747-ADV Passenger Version Order Today?

Wed Nov 16, 2005 5:37 am

This is great news!!

For all you Boeing bashers out there, don't you think that Boeing has multiple orders for the 748 pax model tucked away in their hip pocket before they would consider announcing it?? It would be a public relations disaster to announce the launch of a new aircraft without knowing that orders were coming...

British, AF, Lufthansa, JAL, United --- all the airlines currently flying 744's or older will be lining up soon to order the 748 pax version.... the A380 will have it's place, I guess, but, when you come right down to it, don't you think that most of the world's airlines would rather, when push comes to shove, order the updated and expanded version of the most popular jumbo jet of all time?

Can't wait to see this great new plane in UAL colors!!
 
keesje
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RE: BA B747-ADV Passenger Version Order Today?

Wed Nov 16, 2005 5:40 am

Quoting TinkerBelle (Reply 37):
The freighter is a little bit longer than the passenger version but not by much.

nearly 2 meters..
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
Molykote
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RE: BA B747-ADV Passenger Version Order Today?

Wed Nov 16, 2005 5:45 am

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 26):
I don't think the lack of engine choice is going to be a problem. When the 747-100 and -200 came out, pretty much everyone order P&W JT8D engines. I think only BA wanted RR RB211 engines.

It is a little curious that the 787 comes with a choice of GE or RR, while the 747 Advanced only comes with the GE engines from the 787.

The engine I believe you are referring to is the JT9D.

A 747 with JT8Ds would make the A343 look like a 757.
Speedtape - The aspirin of aviation!
 
TinkerBelle
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RE: BA B747-ADV Passenger Version Order Today?

Wed Nov 16, 2005 5:52 am

Quoting Molykote (Reply 43):
A 747 with JT8Ds would make the A343 look like a 757.

Does it not already look like a 757?  biggrin 
If you are going through hell, keep going.
 
DavidT
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RE: BA B747-ADV Passenger Version Order Today?

Wed Nov 16, 2005 6:03 am

Come on BA, order some 787s and 748s... I want to fly on some Big grin
 
GDB
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RE: BA B747-ADV Passenger Version Order Today?

Wed Nov 16, 2005 6:13 am

No BA, as an employee, don't order anything until we are sure it can be afforded.
And look critically at any 4 holer with one engine option, from the very company that has screwed us so much.
 
TinkerBelle
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RE: BA B747-ADV Passenger Version Order Today?

Wed Nov 16, 2005 6:22 am

Any chance VS might order the 748 to replace their 744's? I know they have 8 whalejets on order already but like it's been well noted, the whalejet is not a logical replacement for the 744's.
If you are going through hell, keep going.
 
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Richard28
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RE: BA B747-ADV Passenger Version Order Today?

Wed Nov 16, 2005 6:27 am

Quoting TinkerBelle (Reply 47):
Any chance VS might order the 748 to replace their 744's? I know they have 8 whalejets on order already but like it's been well noted, the whalejet is not a logical replacement for the 744's.

I think you'll find the A380's replacing the LHR B744's, which will move over to LGW ops on arrival. So for VS the A380 is a replacement for the 744 at LHR.

Only chance of a VS order would be if they need to expand 747's at LGW/MAN above this level - but with the 748 not coming on-line until after VS starts getting its A380's, and with 6 747's potentially able to move to LGW/MAN ops I doubt VS will have the need for it.
 
sunrisevalley
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RE: BA B747-ADV Passenger Version Order Today?

Wed Nov 16, 2005 6:48 am

Quoting Thrust (Reply 38):



Quoting Thrust (Reply 38):
Didn't the president/chairman of Singapore Airlines claim he would rather misuse the A380 on certain routes than purchase the 747 Advanced?

This statement was made a long time before the the 747-8 details were known.
Also fuel prices have risen dramatically in the meantime.
In any event SQ are most unlikely to replace a -400 one for one with an A380 and their policy of operating a young fleet pretty much guarantees an order for the 747-8 sometime during the next 3-years. Readers need to go back to the thread titled "Boeing nears 747ADV Launch decision" and look at Widebodyphotog's posting of Sept. 9th containing the data table for the 747-8 and A380-800 and the discussion at that time.