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PanAm_DC10
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Kenya Airways Increase B777 Orders

Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:41 am

SEATTLE, Nov 15 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- The Boeing Company (NYSE: BA) and Kenya Airways today announced planned additions to the airline's fleet
with an order for its fourth 777-200ER and an option for a fifth, as well as
plans to lease its sixth 767-300ER in 2006. The 777 ordered is scheduled for
delivery in 2007.

Life still left in the 772ER

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Ryanair737
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RE: Kenya Airways Increase B777 Orders

Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:52 am

Great news for Kenya Airways, nice to see them expanding and taking further aircraft. The B772ER is the perfect aircraft for them on the routes they operate and in the African environment.

Ryanair737
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FriendlySkies
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RE: Kenya Airways Increase B777 Orders

Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:53 am

Great news! Nice to see the 777 family alive and kicking, this has been a remarkable year!
 
MSYYZ
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RE: Kenya Airways Increase B777 Orders

Wed Nov 16, 2005 9:15 am

Good news for KQ .
They only have 3 long-haul destinations :
LHR : Daily
AMS : Daily
HKG : 5 weekly .
Is there any further plans for expansion ?

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ETStar
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RE: Kenya Airways Increase B777 Orders

Wed Nov 16, 2005 11:52 am

Great news for KQ! Truly a success story...

Quoting MSYYZ (Reply 3):
They only have 3 long-haul destinations :

They have other long hauls, such as those that go to Dakar, Senegal and Freetown, Sierra Leone. Also, Guangzhou is served via Dubai, and HKG is actually via BKK.
 
TinkerBelle
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RE: Kenya Airways Increase B777 Orders

Wed Nov 16, 2005 12:19 pm

Great news for a great airline. I wish they could have ordered the 748 instead but again, that's my wish.

Any chance they'll be flying to the US soon? There's a been rumor running around that they'll have direct flights to MIA from NBO but I've heard that for a good two years now. The 772ER can make that hop since on one of their delivery flights, it flew SEA-NBO with passengers for 16 and a half hours.

KQ is hard to figure out.
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The777Man
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RE: Kenya Airways Increase B777 Orders

Wed Nov 16, 2005 3:48 pm

Great news! I would have thought that they would order 787s to replace their 763s.

They also fly to BOM which is long-haul for them.

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kiwiandrew

RE: Kenya Airways Increase B777 Orders

Wed Nov 16, 2005 4:12 pm

Quoting The777Man (Reply 6):
They also fly to BOM which is long-haul for them.

isn't that only about 6 hours ? more medium than long haul really
 
aerokiwi
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RE: Kenya Airways Increase B777 Orders

Wed Nov 16, 2005 5:28 pm

From experience, the flights to Dubai and back are packed with merchants from all over Africa going to get cheap merchandise to sell back home.

And I beleiev they are used on internal Africa flights including Blantyre or Lilongwe once a week.

What happened to Shanghai?

And I know they are trying to get Japanese interested in the area for safaris etc. A possible future route?
 
B742
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RE: Kenya Airways Increase B777 Orders

Fri Nov 18, 2005 4:32 am

Quoting MSYYZ (Reply 3):
LHR : Daily

Isn't LHR served more often, I've often seen a morning departure and a night departure from LHR to NBO, both with the 777's and 767's?

Quoting Aerokiwi (Reply 8):
What happened to Shanghai?

Wasn't PVG dumped in favour CAN via DXB?

Will KQ ever require the 777-300ER or 747-8 in their fleet, or are they too large for their network?

Good news!  Smile

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HUYfan
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RE: Kenya Airways Increase B777 Orders

Fri Nov 18, 2005 4:39 am

I didn't think KQ flew to FNA Freetown??

Regards

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MSYYZ
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RE: Kenya Airways Increase B777 Orders

Fri Nov 18, 2005 6:52 am

Quoting B742 (Reply 9):
Isn't LHR served more often, I've often seen a morning departure and a night departure from LHR to NBO

The daily flight info is according to Amadeus . But you are right when i checked KQ's website , i found 2 flights a day KQ104 and KQ102 .

Quoting ETStar (Reply 4):
They have other long hauls, such as those that go to Dakar, Senegal and Freetown, Sierra Leone

I don't think these flights from East to West Africa are considered as long-haul .

Quoting ETStar (Reply 4):
Also, Guangzhou is served via Dubai,

Are u sure ?? Here is KQ route map from their website :
http://www.kenya-airways.com/root/pages/English/Home.asp
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iluv747400
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RE: Kenya Airways Increase B777 Orders

Fri Nov 18, 2005 6:56 am

Quoting TinkerBelle (Reply 5):
Any chance they'll be flying to the US soon?

Perhaps they'll serve Newark or Atlanta now that they're becoming an associate member of SkyTeam?

[Edited 2005-11-17 22:57:18]
 
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PA110
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RE: Kenya Airways Increase B777 Orders

Fri Nov 18, 2005 8:11 am

Quoting MSYYZ (Reply 3):
They only have 3 long-haul destinations :
LHR : Daily
AMS : Daily
HKG : 5 weekly .
Is there any further plans for expansion ?

KQ is resuming flights to/from Paris/CDG effective 02 July 2006. Service will be 3x per week (Wed,Fri,Sun) operated by B767. Other European cities are still under discussion.

Quoting Iluv747400 (Reply 12):
Perhaps they'll serve Newark or Atlanta now that they're becoming an associate member of SkyTeam?

Not likely. KQ currently profits from a very well trained and very well discplined management, who know their business and are not likely to expand purely for "national prestige", a mistake made by so many carriers from developing nations. There is strong demand out of existing European markets, and KQ can rely on SkyTeam partners to feed it's growing European operations. KQ has repeatedly stated that there is absolutely no compelling business case for flying transatlantic. Current aircraft would not make the range, so revenues would have to cover the increased cost of a transit/refueling stop. While the airline can top-off revenue on the Europe-onward sector, it is likely to lose money carrying empty seats across the atlantic unless it obtains traffic rights. Even then, it is then entering a market with intense competition. It's just plain foolish economics and luckily KQ's management knows and understands this.

[Edited 2005-11-18 00:23:59]
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TinkerBelle
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RE: Kenya Airways Increase B777 Orders

Fri Nov 18, 2005 8:17 am

Quoting PA110 (Reply 13):
KQ is resuming flights to/from Paris effective 02 July 2006. Service will be 3x per week (Wed,Fri,Sun) operated by B767. Other European cities are still under discussion.

By saying 'resuming', I assume they once used to fly there huuh! How long ago was that and what aircraft did they use?
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PA110
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RE: Kenya Airways Increase B777 Orders

Fri Nov 18, 2005 8:31 am

During the 70's, 80's and early 90's, KQ operated B707, and later A310 equipment to London, Paris, Frankfurt, Zurich, Rome, Athens, Copenhagen and Stockholm. When KLM purchased a 25% share of Kenya Airways, the longhaul fleet changed to all B767 equipment, and most recently added B777.

[Edited 2005-11-18 00:39:30]
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AF022
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RE: Kenya Airways Increase B777 Orders

Fri Nov 18, 2005 12:31 pm

Quoting PA110 (Reply 13):
Not likely. KQ currently profits from a very well trained and very well discplined management, who know their business and are not likely to expand purely for "national prestige", a mistake made by so many carriers from developing nations. There is strong demand out of existing European markets, and KQ can rely on SkyTeam partners to feed it's growing European operations. KQ has repeatedly stated that there is absolutely no compelling business case for flying transatlantic. Current aircraft would not make the range, so revenues would have to cover the increased cost of a transit/refueling stop. While the airline can top-off revenue on the Europe-onward sector, it is likely to lose money carrying empty seats across the atlantic unless it obtains traffic rights. Even then, it is then entering a market with intense competition. It's just plain foolish economics and luckily KQ's management knows and understands this.

Wasn't there a LOT of chatter about KQ going to MIA? Anyone with minimal experience in the industry would know that would never work out.
 
TinkerBelle
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RE: Kenya Airways Increase B777 Orders

Fri Nov 18, 2005 12:42 pm

Quoting PA110 (Reply 13):
Current aircraft would not make the range, so revenues would have to cover the increased cost of a transit/refueling stop.

Not entirely right. Like I mentioned earlier, one of their 772ER delivery flight flew SEA-NBO with passengers so they can at least make it to the East coast.

Quoting AF022 (Reply 16):
Wasn't there a LOT of chatter about KQ going to MIA? Anyone with minimal experience in the industry would know that would never work out.

..and why exactly is that???
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The777Man
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RE: Kenya Airways Increase B777 Orders

Fri Nov 18, 2005 3:44 pm

Quoting Aerokiwi (Reply 8):
They also fly to BOM which is long-haul for them.

isn't that only about 6 hours ? more medium than long haul really

Well, since another poster said DXB is longhaul for KQ, since BOM is farther away, it can perhaps be considered longhaul for them. It's one of few routes to other continents than Africa that they fly to.

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PA110
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RE: Kenya Airways Increase B777 Orders

Fri Nov 18, 2005 4:46 pm

Quoting AF022 (Reply 16):
Wasn't there a LOT of chatter about KQ going to MIA? Anyone with minimal experience in the industry would know that would never work out.

The "chatter" was the result of a dubious news article in a local Kenya newspaper, written by an obviously uninformed local reporter who got his facts wrong. Of course every a.nutter on the board got their panties moist about potential spotting opportunities, without any regard whatsoever to economic realities. Some even started posting amazing amounts of bullshit about the demand for travel between southern Florida and Africa, as if the East Africa market bore any resemblance whatsoever with the wealthy South African jewish community in Cape Town, and large South African expat community in the USA who were the primary passengers on the former SAA service between MIA and CPT.

Quoting TinkerBelle (Reply 17):
Not entirely right. Like I mentioned earlier, one of their 772ER delivery flight flew SEA-NBO with passengers so they can at least make it to the East coast.

Sorry, not correct at all. They carried the same "token" number of passengers that are carried on many delivery flights. A far cry from operating in a real revenue environment. Besides, the delivery flight was eastbound, with the jetstream and prevailing winds. NBO airport is at 5000' elevation. There is no way they could fly westbound with a full load of fuel, cargo and passengers.

[Edited 2005-11-18 08:49:38]
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dkny
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RE: Kenya Airways Increase B777 Orders

Fri Nov 18, 2005 5:01 pm

Quoting MSYYZ (Reply 11):
Quoting ETStar (Reply 4):
Also, Guangzhou is served via Dubai,

Are u sure ?? Here is KQ route map from their website :

I don't know if tje CAN flight has started yet, but ETStar is correct and KQ will fly that route via DXB with full 5th freedom rights.
 
TinkerBelle
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RE: Kenya Airways Increase B777 Orders

Fri Nov 18, 2005 9:36 pm

Quoting Pa110 (Reply 19):
Sorry, not correct at all. They carried the same "token" number of passengers that are carried on many delivery flights. A far cry from operating in a real revenue environment

I definitely stand to be corrected but I can swear some newspaper somewhere reported otherwise. Apparently, the T7 made a hop to Copenhagen, picked up some passengers back to SEA then left for NBO fully loaded. I've been searching for the damn link where I read that but sorry can't find it. I personally thought it was a stretch myself but hey, with the mis-information we get from the media regarding aviation, I'm not surprised  wink 
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AF022
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RE: Kenya Airways Increase B777 Orders

Fri Nov 18, 2005 10:44 pm

Quoting Pa110 (Reply 19):
The "chatter" was the result of a dubious news article in a local Kenya newspaper

I'm pretty sure the "chatter" was more than that, and that KQ reps were in MIA, or MIA reps were in NBO.
 
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PA110
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RE: Kenya Airways Increase B777 Orders

Sat Nov 19, 2005 5:23 am

Quoting AF022 (Reply 22):
I'm pretty sure the "chatter" was more than that, and that KQ reps were in MIA, or MIA reps were in NBO.

Nope, got it right from the horse's mouth - head of KQ sales and marketing in the USA. They too were scratching their heads why there was press about MIA. It was an erroneous story that somehow developed its own legs, probably through wishful thinking.
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AF022
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RE: Kenya Airways Increase B777 Orders

Sat Nov 19, 2005 5:33 am

My bad. Thanks for the clarification.