MTY2GVA
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Usefulness Of The Boeing 747's Second Floor

Fri Nov 18, 2005 4:11 am

I know this may sound a little weird, but seeing the floorplans of different 747's some with around 24 business seats in them I am wondering if it wouldn't be more economical to do a 10 meter longer plane than the added weight/aerodynamic effect of a second floor.
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hawaijahaz
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RE: Usefulness Of The Boeing 747's Second Floor

Fri Nov 18, 2005 4:56 am

But then it wouldn't be the queen of the skies...
The throughts of people's dreams...

It's the hump that makes the plane look awesome.  Smile

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KELPkid
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RE: Usefulness Of The Boeing 747's Second Floor

Fri Nov 18, 2005 5:09 am

What, and loose the only (semi) forward-looking passenger windows in the industry? C'mon...  Smile

I've heard the 1st rows of 1st class in a 747 are the place to be...you can actually look down the runway on takeoffs and landings!
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concentriq
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RE: Usefulness Of The Boeing 747's Second Floor

Fri Nov 18, 2005 5:12 am

I think im right on this: The passenger 747 came as an afterthought to a freight version, where the "hump" is where living quarters would be (pilots, rest cabins, supplies, etc) leaving two decks below to cargo. this allowed for front load capabilities.
the idea of lounge/first class "upstairs" was really welcome in the days of luxury travel, and 747 being a great design like it is, it stuck around. also:

Quoting Hawaijahaz (Reply 1):
But then it wouldn't be the queen of the skies...



Quoting Hawaijahaz (Reply 1):
It's the hump that makes the plane look awesome.
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supa7E7
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RE: Usefulness Of The Boeing 747's Second Floor

Fri Nov 18, 2005 5:16 am

Is the hump extended on the 747-800? No pun intended.
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N328KF
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RE: Usefulness Of The Boeing 747's Second Floor

Fri Nov 18, 2005 5:21 am

Quoting Supa7E7 (Reply 4):
Is the hump extended on the 747-800? No pun intended.

It is on the 747-8I. The 747-8F has the same size hump as the -100.

[Edited 2005-11-17 21:21:47]
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RE: Usefulness Of The Boeing 747's Second Floor

Fri Nov 18, 2005 5:25 am

Quoting N328KF (Reply 5):
It is on the 747-8I

Versus the -400, same or longer?
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N328KF
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RE: Usefulness Of The Boeing 747's Second Floor

Fri Nov 18, 2005 5:31 am

Quoting Supa7E7 (Reply 6):
Versus the -400, same or longer?

http://www.boeing.com/randy/images/747a01_lg.jpg
http://www.boeing.com/randy/images/rb_747f01_lg.jpg
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concentriq
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RE: Usefulness Of The Boeing 747's Second Floor

Fri Nov 18, 2005 5:43 am

Quoting N328KF (Reply 7):
...

gorgeous!
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RedDragon
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RE: Usefulness Of The Boeing 747's Second Floor

Fri Nov 18, 2005 6:07 am

The hump actually increases the efficiency of the airframe due to area ruling effects (basically, bulging out the front and rear of the fuselage relative to the centre to compensate for the larger wing area in the centre). In fact, the extended -300/-400 hump supposedly offers an improvement over the shorter, original design. Removing the hump wouldn't be as obvious an aerodynamic step as it might seem  Smile

Of course, the main reason that Boeing doesn't change the design so drastically right now is that it'd be a hideously complex and expensive redesign - they might as well just redesign everything else as well. Hypothetically, however, this kind of question raises some interesting thoughts and tradeoffs.

Rich
 
concentriq
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RE: Usefulness Of The Boeing 747's Second Floor

Fri Nov 18, 2005 6:11 am

anyone noticed the trailing ends of engine cowlings look teethy? any reason for that? or just an artists perception?
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akelley728
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RE: Usefulness Of The Boeing 747's Second Floor

Fri Nov 18, 2005 6:20 am

Quoting MTY2GVA (Thread starter):
I know this may sound a little weird, but seeing the floorplans of different 747's some with around 24 business seats in them I am wondering if it wouldn't be more economical to do a 10 meter longer plane than the added weight/aerodynamic effect of a second floor.

The cockpit is also on the upper level. Having the cockpit on the upper level allows the nose of the 747 to flip up for cargo operations (when it's built specifically as a freighter).

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Sven De Bevere



Quoting Concentriq (Reply 10):
anyone noticed the trailing ends of engine cowlings look teethy? any reason for that? or just an artists perception?

Those 'chevrons' you see will help reduce noise emissions by reducing the sound of exiting jet engine exhaust. You'll notice them on the 787 also.

[Edited 2005-11-17 22:28:37]
 
md80fanatic
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RE: Usefulness Of The Boeing 747's Second Floor

Fri Nov 18, 2005 6:30 am

Quoting Concentriq (Reply 10):
anyone noticed the trailing ends of engine cowlings look teethy? any reason for that? or just an artists perception?



Quoting AKelley728 (Reply 11):
Those 'chevrons' you see will help reduce noise emissions by reducing the sound of exiting jet engine exhaust. You'll notice them on the 787 also.

How can putting something forward of the exhaust exit aid in reducing noise?

What it WILL do is to give the bypass air a chance to escape sooner, leading to less concentrated thrust in the direction most important.
 
AADC10
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RE: Usefulness Of The Boeing 747's Second Floor

Fri Nov 18, 2005 6:31 am

Do the grey bands in the drawing indicate where the plane is lengthened? If so, it looks like it would add a row or two to the upper deck.

I have always thought that the reason for the upper deck was to allow a completely open lower deck for freighters. If there is a significant aeordynamic advantage to the hump, why didn't other planes copy it?
 
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aloha73g
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RE: Usefulness Of The Boeing 747's Second Floor

Fri Nov 18, 2005 6:37 am

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 13):
I have always thought that the reason for the upper deck was to allow a completely open lower deck for freighters.

Yep, as previously mentioned the 747 was designed originally with a primarily freight role in mind...just in case the passenger version was a dud. Boeing figured that if the market for a jumbo passenger jet fell through, they could market a mega freight carrier. Fortunately they did well in both regards.

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RE: Usefulness Of The Boeing 747's Second Floor

Fri Nov 18, 2005 6:40 am

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 12):
What it WILL do is to give the bypass air a chance to escape sooner, leading to less concentrated thrust in the direction most important.

Yes, you have a point. Clearly you are more proficient in thermal dynamics and fluid transfer than those idiots at GEAE.
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MTY2GVA
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RE: Usefulness Of The Boeing 747's Second Floor

Fri Nov 18, 2005 6:43 am

I have to agree that the hump is awesome and its a beautiful plane. In the cargo version the hump is very helpful too. I've flown in first class in the front of the first deck and its great to know you're literally in front of the aircraft.
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dvk
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RE: Usefulness Of The Boeing 747's Second Floor

Fri Nov 18, 2005 6:44 am

Quoting Aloha73g (Reply 14):
Yep, as previously mentioned the 747 was designed originally with a primarily freight role in mind...just in case the passenger version was a dud.

When the 747 was originally designed, there was widespread belief that commercial flights would become mostly supersonic in the not too distant future. The 747 was therefore designed for optimal use as a freighter, to assure it would have greater success in the long term.
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sonic67
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RE: Usefulness Of The Boeing 747's Second Floor

Fri Nov 18, 2005 6:47 am

I have heard a rumor that the upper deck may get sky light windows can anyone confirm or dispel this?

It would be killer if it that was true....



 cool 
 
ANother
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RE: Usefulness Of The Boeing 747's Second Floor

Fri Nov 18, 2005 6:50 am

Quoting Aloha73g (Reply 14):
Yep, as previously mentioned the 747 was designed originally with a primarily freight role in mind...

It may be just a 'senior's moment' but wasn't the original B747 design Boeing entry into the USAF campaign for a heavy-lift military freighter - the one that the C5 won?

Designed as a freighter, Boeing cut their losses and adapted the design to a Passenger version. I can't remember when the first B747F was delivered but it was quite a few years later - but the original design came in handy as it allowed the the nose-door.

Just my 2 cents ...
 
supa7E7
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RE: Usefulness Of The Boeing 747's Second Floor

Fri Nov 18, 2005 6:54 am

Will the 747-800 pax have a longer upper deck than the 747-400? Or is the stretch on level 1 only? The above pic did not clarify this.
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sonic67
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RE: Usefulness Of The Boeing 747's Second Floor

Fri Nov 18, 2005 7:00 am

Yes Boeing lost the competition because the defense department felt that Boeing already had too many large projects such as B-52, KC-135 etc. I think at first they where sorry that they had chosen Locked with all the early problems and cost over runs.
 
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RE: Usefulness Of The Boeing 747's Second Floor

Fri Nov 18, 2005 7:03 am

Quoting Supa7E7 (Reply 20):
Will the 747-800 pax have a longer upper deck than the 747-400? Or is the stretch on level 1 only? The above pic did not clarify this.

Yes - the upper aircraft is 747-8I, which will have both decks stretched forward of the wing. The lower aircraft, the 747-8F, has no use for a longer upper deck, so only the main deck will be stretched. The -8F has a longer stretch than the pax to compensate for the absent upper deck and preserve center-of-gravity balance.

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RedChili
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RE: Usefulness Of The Boeing 747's Second Floor

Fri Nov 18, 2005 7:05 am

Quoting MTY2GVA (Thread starter):
I am wondering if it wouldn't be more economical to do a 10 meter longer plane than the added weight/aerodynamic effect of a second floor.

Firstly, this would create airport problems. How about a tailstrike at take-off? And how about the space at the gates? Adding 10 meters would mean that it would be longer than 80 meters. It wouldn't fit into today's terminals.

Secondly, the cockpit would have to go on the first floor, thereby losing several seat rows there. It's doubtful whether this plane would seat more than the current 744.

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 13):
If there is a significant aeordynamic advantage to the hump, why didn't other planes copy it?

Other manufacturers cannot copy it, because Boeing has a patent/copyright on that shape. And for Boeing, adding a second floor on a 737 would look really strange, and since the second floor would have to be narrower than the first floor, the cockpit would probably have to be the fighter airplane style!
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RedDragon
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RE: Usefulness Of The Boeing 747's Second Floor

Fri Nov 18, 2005 7:06 am

Quoting Sonic67 (Reply 18):
I have heard a rumor that the upper deck may get sky light windows can anyone confirm or dispel this?

They're not going to run along the length of the upper deck, but seem to be a group more or less above the main staircase. Boeing is trying to open out the "public" (non-seating) areas to achieve more of the "grand staircase" feel Airbus will have with the A380.

Rich
 
mrcomet
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RE: Usefulness Of The Boeing 747's Second Floor

Fri Nov 18, 2005 7:07 am

Quoting Aloha73g (Reply 14):
Yep, as previously mentioned the 747 was designed originally with a primarily freight role in mind...just in case the passenger version was a dud. Boeing figured that if the market for a jumbo passenger jet fell through, they could market a mega freight carrier. Fortunately they did well in both regards.

It's ironic that the 748 is also being same in the same light -- mainly a freighter. Lets hope it also sees plenty of passengers.
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Ken777
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RE: Usefulness Of The Boeing 747's Second Floor

Fri Nov 18, 2005 7:09 am

Anyone lucky enough to have flown "upper deck" on a long haul flight would be very sad to see the hump removed. It's a great place, rather private and, if you get a window seat you have a storage bin next to your seat. You do have to climb the stairs, but it's worth the effort.

The upper deck on the 747-8 is being extended as much as the lower deck - adding more business class seats.
 
prebennorholm
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RE: Usefulness Of The Boeing 747's Second Floor

Fri Nov 18, 2005 7:11 am

The 747 started life as a competitor against the military Lockheed C-5 Galaxy - therefore the front cargo door option and the 2nd floor flight deck.

When it lost against the C-5, then it was modified to become a stop gap pax plane until the supersonic Boeing 2707 would take over.

In order to protect the investment the cargo friendly design was kept unchanged so they could easily be converted to frighters when all long range passenger flights would be supersonic.

Yes, that's how it was in the super optimistic 60'es, nobody believed that people in the 80'es would have time to spend 7-8 hours crossing an ocean, but it was rightly expected that a well built 747 could fly for more than 10-15 years before it had to be scrapped.

Blending the double bubble forward fuselage into the otherwise single bubble fuselage is a unique 747 feature which has never been tried on any other airliner, and probably never will again. Such bubble blending of pressurized structures calls for some heavy reinforcements. Also the high flight deck is a disadvantage at landing. A minor thing, but still a disadvantage. The lower the better.

But sure it gives the 747 a unique and nice look. And like 40+ years ago, when the fuselage shape was first time drawn up, it still creates the perfect cargo plane.
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akelley728
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RE: Usefulness Of The Boeing 747's Second Floor

Fri Nov 18, 2005 7:27 am

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 12):
How can putting something forward of the exhaust exit aid in reducing noise?

What it WILL do is to give the bypass air a chance to escape sooner, leading to less concentrated thrust in the direction most important.

The "serrated" design produces a better mix of the engine's exhaust gas and air that passes through and around the nacelle. A better mix reduces the exhaust noise that hits the rear of the fuselage, meaning quieter take-offs for passengers and the surrounding community.

 
sllevin
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RE: Usefulness Of The Boeing 747's Second Floor

Fri Nov 18, 2005 7:34 am

Quoting Prebennorholm (Reply 27):
The 747 started life as a competitor against the military Lockheed C-5 Galaxy - therefore the front cargo door option and the 2nd floor flight deck.

Actually, Boeing's entry in the HLX competition was high-winged.

The reason the 747 was built with the upper deck was for civilian freighter use. The expectation was that the SST would replace all 747 ops, and the existing 747's (as well as future ones) would be freighters -- and the upper deck allowed the nose door install for long cargo.

Steve
 
JAM747
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RE: Usefulness Of The Boeing 747's Second Floor

Fri Nov 18, 2005 7:39 am

Not only is the the upper deck being used for passenges but above that in the crown of the hump there might be small rest bunks for some passengers during cruise. If you look at the 747-800 site www.747.newairplane.com you will see a picture.
 
Tod
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RE: Usefulness Of The Boeing 747's Second Floor

Fri Nov 18, 2005 8:06 am

Quoting JAM747 (Reply 30):
Not only is the the upper deck being used for passenges but above that in the crown of the hump there might be small rest bunks for some passengers during cruise. If you look at the 747-800 site www.747.newairplane.com you will see a picture.

IIRC - the "Sky-Loft" is located closer to the area above door 4.
KLM 744 already have a crew rest there and Boeing has studied how to use that space for years. Locating any rest space further forward toward the aft of the upper deck presents major engineering challanges because all of the major ECS ducting route through the area and effecient rerouting isn't easy.

Tod
 
ContinentalFan
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RE: Usefulness Of The Boeing 747's Second Floor

Fri Nov 18, 2005 8:07 am

Quoting JAM747 (Reply 30):
Not only is the the upper deck being used for passenges but above that in the crown of the hump there might be small rest bunks for some passengers during cruise. If you look at the 747-800 site www.747.newairplane.com you will see a picture.

I think it's actually the crown of the main fuselage where Boeing is contemplating adding these areas. I don't think there's enough space in the crown of the hump, but there is plenty in the main fuselage.
 
Lumberton
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RE: Usefulness Of The Boeing 747's Second Floor

Fri Nov 18, 2005 8:13 am

Quoting Prebennorholm (Reply 27):

Absolutely corect, Prebennorholm. Here's a quote from an article from ATWO that goes into the rationale for the design:

Quote:
Pan Am founder Juan Trippe insisted that the 747 should be designed so that it could be converted into a cargo airplane, with a nose door for straight-in loading. The result was an upper-deck cockpit, which had to be extended into an aft fairing to reduce drag-a fairing that was large enough to accommodate a lounge and eventually a cabin.

Here's the link to the entire article. Great reading.
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mikkel777
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RE: Usefulness Of The Boeing 747's Second Floor

Fri Nov 18, 2005 8:32 am

Quoting AKelley728 (Reply 28):
The "serrated" design produces a better mix of the engine's exhaust gas and air that passes through and around the nacelle. A better mix reduces the exhaust noise that hits the rear of the fuselage, meaning quieter take-offs for passengers and the surrounding community.

Engine noise is higher when the exiting air have high speed compared to the surrounding air. Sound is made due to shear-forces between air-molecules. That is why high bypass-engines are more quiet than low by-pass. More air is accelerated less, and then giving less shear forces. The "saw-toth" design further helps the mixing of slower moving (outside the narcelle, or air that just bypassed the high pressure portion of the engine) and faster mowing air (accelrated by the N1 fan, or the core), slowing down the overall speed of the air. This speed-reduction gives less noise, but the thrust-output stays the same.
 
IL96M
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RE: Usefulness Of The Boeing 747's Second Floor

Fri Nov 18, 2005 10:31 am

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 2):
I've heard the 1st rows of 1st class in a 747 are the place to be...you can actually look down the runway on takeoffs and landings!

I've sat there many times, you can't see down the runway, even if you lean into the porthole of the window and squash your face against the glass.
 
klmcedric
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RE: Usefulness Of The Boeing 747's Second Floor

Fri Nov 18, 2005 10:47 am

Quoting IL96M (Reply 35):
I've sat there many times, you can't see down the runway, even if you lean into the porthole of the window and squash your face against the glass.

LOL, your fellow passengers must have had some mixed feelings about you
while doing this!
 
bhmbaglock
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RE: Usefulness Of The Boeing 747's Second Floor

Fri Nov 18, 2005 10:59 am

Quoting RedChili (Reply 23):
Other manufacturers cannot copy it, because Boeing has a patent/copyright on that shape.

This patent should have expired around 10-15 years ago.
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lightsaber
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RE: Usefulness Of The Boeing 747's Second Floor

Fri Nov 18, 2005 11:40 am

Quoting Concentriq (Reply 10):
anyone noticed the trailing ends of engine cowlings look teethy? any reason for that? or just an artists perception?



Quoting N328KF (Reply 15):
Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 12):
What it WILL do is to give the bypass air a chance to escape sooner, leading to less concentrated thrust in the direction most important.

Yes, you have a point. Clearly you are more proficient in thermal dynamics and fluid transfer than those idiots at GEAE.



Quoting Mikkel777 (Reply 34):

Engine noise is higher when the exiting air have high speed compared to the surrounding air. Sound is made due to shear-forces between air-molecules. That is why high bypass-engines are more quiet than low by-pass. More air is accelerated less, and then giving less shear forces. The "saw-toth" design further helps the mixing of slower moving (outside the narcelle, or air that just bypassed the high pressure portion of the engine) and faster mowing air (accelrated by the N1 fan, or the core), slowing down the overall speed of the air. This speed-reduction gives less noise, but the thrust-output stays the same.

While the noise theory is correct, I hate to break it to everyone, cheverons do come with a thrust/fuel economy penalty. Ok, its small, about 0.125%. There is also a MX penalty. (The cheverons see more stress than a simple ring, so there are more inspections versus a same material part sans cheverons.) However, they reduce noise by several decibels. If the 748 (or 788/789) drops one LHR noise category because of this, its worth millions. (Added night slots, recall UA sold to Virgin a pair of slots for $20 million, discussed in another thread.) Recall for LHR, each airline gets daytime slots and night time POINTS quotas where each landing (and takeoff) eats away at that quarters (3 months) worth of points.

So GE did the math and determined that ~3db (one QC noise section) was worth more to their customers than 0.125% in fuel efficiency. Pretty soon LHR will start banning night flights that have 4 or more points (Just as the older QC8 or QC16 point aircraft have been banned at night.) Thus, the 748 must get down to QC2 points. Recall, the A388 is QC2 compliant.

a document on the London airport noise quotas:
http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/group...s/page/dft_aviation_022749-02.hcsp

Quoting BHMBAGLOCK (Reply 37):

This patent should have expired around 10-15 years ago.

[checkmark]

Lightsaber
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GQfluffy
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RE: Usefulness Of The Boeing 747's Second Floor

Fri Nov 18, 2005 11:45 am

Quoting BHMBAGLOCK (Reply 37):
This patent should have expired around 10-15 years ago.

I think the Black Eye Peas speak for Boeing in this case.

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lightsaber
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RE: Usefulness Of The Boeing 747's Second Floor

Fri Nov 18, 2005 11:45 am

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 38):
Thus, the 748 must get down to QC2 points. Recall, the A388 is QC2 compliant.

Aagh, I should have noted the 744 is QC2 on arrival. The above numbers are take off. For comparison, the 777 and 340 are both QC0.5 (yes, half!) for landing.

from my previous link:

Quote:

Drawing on the sleep research8 published in 1992, and applying the findings to the population living within the 90dBA SEL arrival noise footprints of the B747-4009 and the B777-200, it is estimated that one B747-400 using the most densely populated westerly approach track into Heathrow would wake up about 353 people and the two B777s about 198 people (fewer if the two B777s or A340s landed in close succession).

And the 777's/340's would carry more people!

Lightsaber
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incitatus
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RE: Usefulness Of The Boeing 747's Second Floor

Fri Nov 18, 2005 1:50 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 26):
Anyone lucky enough to have flown "upper deck" on a long haul flight would be very sad to see the hump removed. It's a great place, rather private and, if you get a window seat you have a storage bin next to your seat.

Funny that many of those same people who like the upper deck whine about narrow body airplanes on long haul flights.
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mikkel777
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RE: Usefulness Of The Boeing 747's Second Floor

Fri Nov 18, 2005 3:02 pm

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 38):
While the noise theory is correct, I hate to break it to everyone, cheverons do come with a thrust/fuel economy penalty. Ok, its small, about 0.125%.

Thank you. I suspected it to be some penalty, but I've never seen numbers on it before.
 
Bohlman
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RE: Usefulness Of The Boeing 747's Second Floor

Fri Nov 18, 2005 5:31 pm

Quoting RedDragon (Reply 9):
The hump actually increases the efficiency of the airframe due to area ruling effects (basically, bulging out the front and rear of the fuselage relative to the centre to compensate for the larger wing area in the centre). In fact, the extended -300/-400 hump supposedly offers an improvement over the shorter, original design. Removing the hump wouldn't be as obvious an aerodynamic step as it might seem Smile

Nope. Area rule only really applies to supersonic air flow, which is why you see advanced (supersonic) fighters have "hourglass figures". This is so that the crosssectional area across the entire length of the plane increases and decreases constantly and proportionally. The reason is, as has been stated above, to allow for nose loading of cargo and, more importantly, vehicles. The 747 was initially designed as a competitor in the bid for the Air Force's new heavy freighter, however, it lost out to the C-5. In a bid like this, it's obvious of some importance that they be able to load military vehicles by simply driving on. Boeing was then approached by Juan Trippe, who was a big factor in their further refining of the design and eventual offering to the public. If the theory about area rule were in fact true, then you would also see an expanded tail section, not just the front. There would also be no reason to place the flight deck on the upper deck, nor would there be a reason to increase the cross section only on top, but would rather be more efficient to increase it all around.
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mikkel777
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RE: Usefulness Of The Boeing 747's Second Floor

Fri Nov 18, 2005 5:40 pm

Quoting Bohlman (Reply 43):
Nope. Area rule only really applies to supersonic air flow,

Supersonic and transonic flight, +Mach 0.8. Even in transonic flight, there is local areas of supersonic flow.
The area rule is one factor why Citation X has the high cruise speed.
 
EI747SYDNEY
Posts: 686
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 8:28 pm

RE: Usefulness Of The Boeing 747's Second Floor

Fri Nov 18, 2005 6:52 pm

Quoting IL96M (Reply 35):
I've sat there many times, you can't see down the runway, even if you lean into the porthole of the window and squash your face against the glass.

Would love to see that... laughing 

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 41):
Funny that many of those same people who like the upper deck whine about narrow body airplanes on long haul flights

Wouldn't you after having all that space....

Rob wave 
''Live life on the edge, Live each and every day like it's your last, Hell you only live once''
 
Tod
Posts: 1709
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:51 am

RE: Usefulness Of The Boeing 747's Second Floor

Sat Nov 19, 2005 12:14 am

Quoting ContinentalFan (Reply 32):
I don't think there's enough space in the crown of the hump, but there is plenty in the main fuselage.

The upperdeck ceiling panels are basically flush to the aircraft frames.

Tod
 
justplanecrazy
Posts: 528
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2003 11:26 pm

RE: Usefulness Of The Boeing 747's Second Floor

Sat Nov 19, 2005 1:14 am

Cargo 747 pilots have to careful they dont have any hot drinks in their cockpit when activating the open nose switch,as they have to sit at back 90 degrees until the cargo is loaded.  eyepopping 
your pilots today on this 747 flight are captain oliver hardy and assisting will be FO stan laurel.Have a safe flight
 
DavidT
Posts: 461
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 1:37 am

RE: Usefulness Of The Boeing 747's Second Floor

Sat Nov 19, 2005 1:56 am

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 41):
Funny that many of those same people who like the upper deck whine about narrow body airplanes on long haul flights.

It is a wonderful place  Smile The aisle is often very wide, and there is plenty of space - much more spacious then a narrow body.  Smile
 
Matt72033
Posts: 1589
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 10:03 pm

RE: Usefulness Of The Boeing 747's Second Floor

Sat Nov 19, 2005 2:31 am

Quoting ANother (Reply 19):
It may be just a 'senior's moment' but wasn't the original B747 design Boeing entry into the USAF campaign for a heavy-lift military freighter - the one that the C5 won?

just think......if the 747 had won, would we all be flying around on C-5's now?  Wink

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