sunnyb
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Kingfisher To Order Turbo-props At Dubai Air Show

Fri Nov 18, 2005 6:40 am

Kingfisher Airlines will acquire turbo-props and regional jets for regional routings. The airline will place a "very significant order for turbo-prop aircraft," said Vijay Mallya.

More at: The Economic Times
 
aseem
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RE: Kingfisher To Order Turbo-props At Dubai Air Show

Fri Nov 18, 2005 6:53 am

more ATR's coming!! MEL would you like to downgrade?? Big grin
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kappel
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RE: Kingfisher To Order Turbo-props At Dubai Air Show

Fri Nov 18, 2005 6:54 am

Wow, Kingfisher is turning out to be the EK of India. I hope they don't buy themselves to bankruptcy. How are they doing BTW?
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aseem
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RE: Kingfisher To Order Turbo-props At Dubai Air Show

Fri Nov 18, 2005 6:59 am

Quoting Kappel (Reply 2):
How are they doing BTW?

the product is good, and for the future we are cautiously optimistic.
rgds
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columba
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RE: Kingfisher To Order Turbo-props At Dubai Air Show

Fri Nov 18, 2005 7:25 am

Quoting Aseem (Reply 1):
more ATR's coming!

Any idea which types exactly ?
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
ETStar
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RE: Kingfisher To Order Turbo-props At Dubai Air Show

Fri Nov 18, 2005 7:29 am

What ever happened to surprises? It would have been nice to hear of these order announcements at the show, as opposed to leaks prior to it. Oh well...
 
A360
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RE: Kingfisher To Order Turbo-props At Dubai Air Show

Fri Nov 18, 2005 7:35 am

Who do you think will win this order?! A or B?

It must be Airbus.... those Boeing props are just hideous!!! They couldn't possibly buy such ugly airplanes! Lol! Big grin


PS: Yes, the post was a joke.

Regards:
A360
 
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Francoflier
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RE: Kingfisher To Order Turbo-props At Dubai Air Show

Fri Nov 18, 2005 7:44 am

Quoting A360 (Reply 6):
Yes, the post was a joke.

Well, EADS is partly involved in ATR...

I'm sorry, I didn't want to unleash yet another ATR vs. Bombardier war....

 devil 
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PanAm_DC10
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RE: Kingfisher To Order Turbo-props At Dubai Air Show

Fri Nov 18, 2005 9:13 am

What about the 30 A320s?

By Anand Krishnamoorthy and Andrea Rothman
Nov. 18 (Bloomberg) -- Airbus SAS, the world's biggest planemaker, will win an order for 30 planes worth $2 billion from Kingfisher Airlines at the Dubai Air Show where the European company will battle with Boeing Co. for new business.
Mumbai-based Kingfisher, owned by United Breweries, will announce the order at the show, which opens Nov. 20, Kingfisher Chief Executive Nigel Harwood said yesterday in a phone interview. The planes are from the single-aisle A320 series with a list price of about $65 million each.


Regards, PanAm_DC10
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boeingbus
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RE: Kingfisher To Order Turbo-props At Dubai Air Show

Fri Nov 18, 2005 9:16 am

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 8):
What about the 30 A320s?

Is this firming an order from that was announced in Paris????
Airbus or Boeing - it's all good to me!
 
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PanAm_DC10
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RE: Kingfisher To Order Turbo-props At Dubai Air Show

Fri Nov 18, 2005 9:21 am

They've already ordered 3 x A319 and 10 x A320 so I assume a new order

Regards, PanAm_DC10
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Nimish
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RE: Kingfisher To Order Turbo-props At Dubai Air Show

Fri Nov 18, 2005 1:39 pm

Wonderful news - Kingfisher is taking away market share from Jet - must be very worrying for Jet. Kingfisher have recently reduced availability of their lower priced tickets (eg 3700 for BLR-DEL is not available through most of Dec/Jan) - so either their flights are already all full, or their loads might come down due to lack of cheap tickets.
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karan69
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RE: Kingfisher To Order Turbo-props At Dubai Air Show

Fri Nov 18, 2005 1:57 pm

Quoting Nimish (Reply 11):
Kingfisher is taking away market share from Jet - must be very worrying for Jet

Nimish infact i saw an analysis of these airlines operating in India done on CNBC TV 18 yesterday, where they were talking about fleet plans and future of Indian aviation , they also had an interesting report on the New Enterants describing how they have taken away market share from the leaders.

From what i remember the figures were as under

Airline[Market share%] January 05 September 05

Jet Airways 44 40
Indian Airlines 36 32
Air Sahara 13 10
Air Deccan 7 11
Kingfisher Airlines - 3
SpiceJet - 4

Pretty interesting times ahead, especially if this is the impact in 9 months
 
LAXDESI
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RE: Kingfisher To Order Turbo-props At Dubai Air Show

Fri Nov 18, 2005 2:42 pm

Quoting Karan69 (Reply 12):
From what i remember the figures were as under

Airline[Market share%] January 05 September 05

Jet Airways 44 40
Indian Airlines 36 32
Air Sahara 13 10
Air Deccan 7 11
Kingfisher Airlines - 3
SpiceJet - 4

So Air Deccan is the third largest carrier currently. I wonder if Indian Airlines will remain at number 2 position five years from now.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Kingfisher To Order Turbo-props At Dubai Air Show

Fri Nov 18, 2005 3:05 pm

Quoting Aseem (Reply 1):
more ATR's coming!! MEL would you like to downgrade

No Way.Im only upgrading  biggrin  B777s,B787s......

Quoting Kappel (Reply 2):
How are they doing BTW?

Loads seem to be picking up.The Service on board is said to be very good.

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 13):
I wonder if Indian Airlines will remain at number 2 position five years from now.

With IC getting their fresh wings soon.They can still retain that Spot.

BTW.Where Indigo going to Fit in.

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
Nimish
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RE: Kingfisher To Order Turbo-props At Dubai Air Show

Fri Nov 18, 2005 4:13 pm

From today's Economic times:
http://epaperdaily.timesofindia.com/...ntityId=Ar00503&ViewMode=HTML&GZ=T

Quote:

Kingfisher eats into Jet’s market share
Girish Rao BANGALORE 17 NOVEMBER

THE market appears to be going a full circle in the domestic aviation space. A similar trend was witnessed when an established auto giant like Maruti lost market share to competitors like Hyundai and Tatas soon after they entered the business. Now, India’s largest domestic carrier Jet Airways has experienced a decline in its market share from 42% in September to 35-36% in October. The more visible gainers have been lifestyle carrier Kingfisher, which has risen from 4.6% to 6.1%, and budget airline Air Deccan from 10% to 11.6%. Low-cost carriers Spice and Deccan collectively accounted for 16.3% market share in October.
Jet Airways’ COO Peter Leuthi said loss of some market share was not unusual when fresh capacity was being added by new players in the market. However, the market dynamics could change once Jet inducted 12 more Boeing 737-800 over the next 18 months. The airline offered 10.4 lakh seats in September and October.
Meanwhile, Kingfisher Airlines chairman Vijay Mallya described the growth in market share as a strong beginning made by the carrier within months of commencing operations. Mr Mallya has said that in the past Kingfisher’s target audience was the same as Jet Airways. The airline will make its presence felt even more strongly as it ramps up its fleet further in the coming months, he added. Kingfisher operates seven/eight A320 planes, which will be ramped up to 17/18 by 2006-end, compared to over 50 flown by Jet Airways.
In October, Spicejet increased its capacity from 1.32 lakh to 1.37 lakh seats, and its market share from 4.5% to 4.7%. Its load factor jumped up from 74.5% to 88% during this period.
Air Sahara also increased its capacity offering from 3.35 lakh to 3.85 lakh seats. Its market share crept up from 11.5% to 12.5% from this September to October.
Air Deccan also pumped in additional capacity of about 50,000 seats, moving up from 2.75 lakh to 3.25 lakh seats during these months with a load factor of 62% and 74.5% respectively, which helped it increase its market share.
The airline has started receiving its new generation ATR-72 planes from this September. Indian Airlines, which also marginally increased its capacity from 8.55 lakh seats to 9 lakh seats in October grew its market share from 28.5% to around 30%.


Hence:

9W - 35%
IC - 30%
S2 - 13%
DN - 11.5%
IT - 6%
0S - 4.5%

I'm kind of surprised that S2 still carries more pax than DN does - does anyone remember their fleet sizes offhand? However, with DN acquiring a/c on a regular basis, they should soon definitely be the #3 in the Indian space. All S2 seems busy doing is being acquired  sarcastic 
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cricket
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RE: Kingfisher To Order Turbo-props At Dubai Air Show

Fri Nov 18, 2005 4:45 pm

The problem with all these numbers is that they are unaudited. To be fair to Jet, SpiceJet and IC the first two are listed and therefore have to highlight their numbers in Annual Reports et al and IC anyway puts all their numbers out properly. The DGCA will give firm numbers for the current period only after a year (as is their wont). In addition, Kingfishers plans are looking hairier by the day and until we get a clearer picture of their business plan we shouldn't really judge them...
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Alessandro
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RE: Kingfisher To Order Turbo-props At Dubai Air Show

Fri Nov 18, 2005 4:50 pm

Embraer´s I presume?
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
FCKC
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RE: Kingfisher To Order Turbo-props At Dubai Air Show

Fri Nov 18, 2005 6:25 pm

Turbo prop : ATR or DHC ?
Regional jets ; Embraer or Canadair ?
Narrow body : A319/320

Has Goair already make their first revenue service ?I know the first A320 is in India.
Is Indigo a reliable new entrant ?

India becomes really a fantastic market !!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Kingfisher To Order Turbo-props At Dubai Air Show

Fri Nov 18, 2005 6:42 pm

Quoting Nimish (Reply 15):
All S2 seems busy doing is being acquired

Spoke with an S2 Pilot yesterday.They have plans for B744s on lease until they acquire their B777s.Also sais that the Acquisation would take place before 2006 as per their schedule.

Quoting FCKC (Reply 18):
Has Goair already make their first revenue service ?I know the first A320 is in India.

GO air 1st A320 with CFM56Bs is Flying currently & based at BOM.

Quoting FCKC (Reply 18):
Is Indigo a reliable new entrant

With a 100 A320 plan.They should be.

I heard Kingfisher is opting for ATRs....Not sure what type though.I would presume ATR72-500s.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
EI747SYDNEY
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RE: Kingfisher To Order Turbo-props At Dubai Air Show

Fri Nov 18, 2005 7:34 pm

Is it true that Kingfisher were eyeing up the A380 also? Whatever happened to that idea?

Rob  wave 
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cricket
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RE: Kingfisher To Order Turbo-props At Dubai Air Show

Fri Nov 18, 2005 8:58 pm

Quoting EI747SYDNEY (Reply 20):
Is it true that Kingfisher were eyeing up the A380 also? Whatever happened to that idea?

They have already ordered five of them at the Paris Air Show. They will be adding to their A32X family order and order a few ATR's at Dubai. Their regional Jet order has still been finalised (but you never know!).
A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
 
TKMCE
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RE: Kingfisher To Order Turbo-props At Dubai Air Show

Sat Nov 19, 2005 12:38 am

Are you sure it is AZTRS and not DHCs.

I think there is a chance the latter will get the order for its Q400s. Tey do not have a presence yet in India.
 
egnr
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RE: Kingfisher To Order Turbo-props At Dubai Air Show

Sat Nov 19, 2005 12:53 am

Quoting EI747SYDNEY (Reply 20):
Is it true that Kingfisher were eyeing up the A380 also? Whatever happened to that idea?

More than eyeing them up... Airbus press release
http://v4.airbus.com/store/photolibrary/AIRCRAFT/CUSTOMER/A380/att00004670/media_object_image_lowres_A380-800-Kingfisher-03_MB_large.jpg
7late7, A3latey, Sukhoi Superlate... what's going on?
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Kingfisher To Order Turbo-props At Dubai Air Show

Sat Nov 19, 2005 2:00 am

Quoting TKMCE (Reply 22):



Are you sure it is AZTRS and not DHCs.

I think there is a chance the latter will get the order for its Q400s. Tey do not have a presence yet in India.

Yes its ATRs.The Aircraft is Already introduced in the country.so makes things easier.Regulatory & manpower wise.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
eha
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RE: Kingfisher To Order Turbo-props At Dubai Air Show

Sat Nov 19, 2005 5:23 am

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 8):
Mumbai-based Kingfisher, owned by United Breweries, will announce the order at the show, which opens Nov. 20, Kingfisher Chief Executive Nigel Harwood said yesterday in a phone interview. The planes are from the single-aisle A320 series with a list price of about $65 million each.

Regards, PanAm_DC10

65M$ sounds pricey for a A320. I would assume it's more in the 40M$ neighborhood. the last reuteurs I read mentioned a 2B$ order for 30 jets + 20 turbo props (ATR assumed). 30 A320 + 20 ATR could do it...We'll see.

E.
 
aseem
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RE: Kingfisher To Order Turbo-props At Dubai Air Show

Sat Nov 19, 2005 5:50 am

here is some news.
Kingfisher plans $2.1bln plane deal
New Delhi: India's privately owned Kingfisher Airlines Ltd. is likely to order 30 jets and 20 turbo-propelled aircraft at the Dubai Air Show in a deal worth $2.1 billion, the Business Standard said on Friday.

ManoramaOnline

Now what 30 jets are they talking about???  Confused
rgds
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kappel
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RE: Kingfisher To Order Turbo-props At Dubai Air Show

Sat Nov 19, 2005 9:56 am

Quoting Aseem (Reply 26):
Now what 30 jets are they talking about???

A320's and a319's.
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HAWK21M
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RE: Kingfisher To Order Turbo-props At Dubai Air Show

Sat Nov 19, 2005 12:29 pm

Quoting Aseem (Reply 26):
Now what 30 jets are they talking about

I think they are talking about the A319/A320s.Thogh not sure if it includes the previous order on A319/20/80/50.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
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PanAm_DC10
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RE: Kingfisher To Order Turbo-props At Dubai Air Show

Sat Nov 19, 2005 12:47 pm

Quoting Eha (Reply 25):
65M$ sounds pricey for a A320. I would assume it's more in the 40M$ neighborhood

Agree but if you read the article the reporter was quoting the list price, not I sir.

Regards, PanAm_DC10
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Beaucaire
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RE: Kingfisher To Order Turbo-props At Dubai Air Show

Sun Nov 20, 2005 3:41 am

Following Flightinternational the Turboprop's would be ATR 72....
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
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Francoflier
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RE: Kingfisher To Order Turbo-props At Dubai Air Show

Sun Nov 20, 2005 4:44 am

With all those airbus orders, EADS should throw in those ATRs for free!

Funny fleet though: Turboprops, A320 and ...A380?
Now that's steep...
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
aseem
Posts: 1971
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RE: Kingfisher To Order Turbo-props At Dubai Air Show

Sun Nov 20, 2005 5:07 am

Quoting Francoflier (Reply 31):
Funny fleet though: Turboprops, A320 and ...A380?

might be a record of some sort. Other to be A380 operators such as SQ and EK don't have turboprops.
rgds
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Francoflier
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RE: Kingfisher To Order Turbo-props At Dubai Air Show

Sun Nov 20, 2005 5:29 am

Quoting Aseem (Reply 32):
might be a record of some sort. Other to be A380 operators such as SQ and EK don't have turboprops.

Might be. What amazes me though is the capacity gap between the A320 and the aircraft directly above it, the A380.

Or do they (will they) operate some widebody of some other type?
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
sunnyb
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RE: Kingfisher To Order Turbo-props At Dubai Air Show

Sun Nov 20, 2005 5:54 am

Quoting Francoflier (Reply 33):
Or do they (will they) operate some widebody of some other type?

Yes, they have some A330s on order as well.
 
gigneil
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RE: Kingfisher To Order Turbo-props At Dubai Air Show

Sun Nov 20, 2005 6:00 am

Quoting Alessandro (Reply 17):
Embraer´s I presume?

Embraer does not have a modern turboprop on order.

Quoting EI747SYDNEY (Reply 20):
Is it true that Kingfisher were eyeing up the A380 also? Whatever happened to that idea?

5 on order

Quoting Francoflier (Reply 31):
Funny fleet though: Turboprops, A320 and ...A380?

Their fleet will comprise the 319, 320, 330, 350, and 380.

Makes more sense.

N
 
aseem
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RE: Kingfisher To Order Turbo-props At Dubai Air Show

Sun Nov 20, 2005 6:49 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 35):
Their fleet will comprise the 319, 320, 330, 350, and 380.

will be joining in the following order
A320/319/330/380/350. no surprises.
rgds
VT-ASJ
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karan69
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RE: Kingfisher To Order Turbo-props At Dubai Air Show

Sun Nov 20, 2005 7:02 am

Quoting Francoflier (Reply 31):
Funny fleet though: Turboprops, A320 and ...A380?
Now that's steep...

You forgot the A330s and A350 as a result of which,

I think its a perfect fleet

Turboprops: lesser domestic markets
A320/319s: Domestic and regional international routes like DXB, qatar etc.
A332: S.E.Asia and European routes
A350: Non-sto USA and Canada routes
A380: high demand non-stop USA routes like BOM-JFK already announced as an intention to fly to.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Kingfisher To Order Turbo-props At Dubai Air Show

Sun Nov 20, 2005 5:55 pm

Was Talking to a Kingfisher AME.They will be getting their A319s next month.

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)

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